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My new system! pics

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=36179
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 7:38 AM


Topic: My new system! pics

Posted By: Leif
Subject: My new system! pics
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 1:55 AM

So, after my old '98 Dodge Intrepid got rear ended and totaled over a month ago, I bought a '01 Chrysler Concorde instead.

I just finished the system (except for one piece that needs to be carpeted). Here's what I have so far:

posted_image
Four Rockford Fosgate RFD2212 (Punch HX2 12") woofers iso-loaded in a ported enclosure tuned to 22hz. Lightning Audio amplifier inside (powering the front tweeters, 2x40w RMS)

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I never know quite how much polyfill to use, but it certainly improved the transient handling. Should I be worried about it catching on fire by the way?

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Subwoofer enclosure with the cover on. All sound plays through the black cloth. The white unit is the crossover for the front speakers.

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Sony Xplod XM-7547 4ch amp bridged into the two front woofers (2x160W RMS, measured), Rockford Fosgate 1500BD subwoofer amp (1500W RMS)

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Amp-cover on. I just built it today - will carpet it next. In the far right is an Optima Yellow Top battery which helps powering the system.

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Alpine CVA-1003 head unit

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My brake simulator should arrive any day now.

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Rear seat, arm-rest stowed (I pity the poor soul who sits here if i turn up the bass)

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Arm-rest down - this is how it will be 99% of the time! All the bass plays directly into the cabin.

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Right front kickpod (Polk tweeter, Alphasonik 6.5" 800-series woofer), as well as 120v AC auxiliary outlet

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Left kickpod, custom e-brake, and soon-to-be-mounted-elsewhere hood release. Oh, and a brake clamp too, you can never be too sure.

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Car-puter under the passenger seat this time. Pardon the dust, I haven't cleaned the car after the installation yet.

Would love to know what you guys think! :)

///Leif



Replies:

Posted By: defective
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 6:48 AM
pretty nice man, looks loud, but i would throw out the sony.... posted_image

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Posted By: fuseblower
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 7:40 AM

Nice job.

One question, ever think about installing an electrical plug instead of using the extension?  





Posted By: defective
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 8:02 AM
posted_image I didnt notice that........ nice hack finding,Fuseblower

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Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 9:08 AM
Actually that looked like a first generation sony explode ES amp, and if it is, they actually worked pretty well, especially since he is just using to power the alphasonics.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: defective
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 9:09 AM

i guess your right, mobile ES deserves a little respect, only good thing sony made



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Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 12:10 PM
Yep, there was a big ruckus the other day in a thread where I tested this sony and compared it to two alpines.

There was controversy about my test methodology, so I conformed to the standard to put the issue to rest, and the test results were:

Alpine MRV-F407: 2x144w bridged stereo
Sony Xplod XM-7547: 2x160w bridged stereo
Alpine MRV-1507: 2x164w stereo

I was gonna use the F407, but the low-pass filter for ch3/4 lacked the x1/x20 switch! So, I couldn't get the low pass filter for the front right woofer over 400hz... No good, so I squeezed the old trusty Sony in there instead :).

It really does work well.


An electrical outlet might be a good idea, yeah :). Not sure I wanna cut up the pods though, any suggestion where to put it? :)




Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 10:08 PM
Hey Haemphyst, did you see this yet? *bump* :)

///Leif




Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 10:16 PM

Looks great. The only thing I can think of is putting a power outlet in like fuseblower said, and it could do with a cleaning [:)]



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Posted By: MBZ oe
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 10:22 PM

>>so remember kiddies, just say no to drugs and audiobahn and you'll be set posted_image <<

FUNNY!



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BOOM, BOOM, BOOM BOOM....




Posted By: Chad7n7
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 10:26 PM

Looks nice, though looks to be a bit much polyfill, maybe the way the pictures are depicting it.

Overall, good job, nice to see someone take pride in their work with cutom installs over the box in the trunk, amps slapped on a board, average everyday install.



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Posted By: xtreamcc
Date Posted: July 26, 2004 at 11:35 PM
Hey Leif, not that I've done this before posted_image, but u might want to move that polyfill just a lil. If the voice coils get warm enough after a good duration of playing and the polyfill has actually worked itself into the frame structure, you can start a fire. Just a little heads up, u can use that much poly, just try to glue it to the box and keep it away from the actual basket assembly. Look'n sharp though, did u ever fix that mirror problem??

Oh, and custom subur, did I say u could quote me? Huh? did I??? HUH!?!?!? PLAGERIZER!!!! haha j/k lol, that is one of the funnier things I've written on this forum though. posted_image

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"Shiny chrome when used in conjunction with bikini models is particularly effective in inducing brain deficit disorder"

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Monster System on its way.




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 12:20 AM

Not to spoil your fun xtreamcc, but custom wasn't plagiarizing if he gave you credit.

See: https://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=plagiarize

posted_image



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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 1:34 AM
hahaa. thats great kfr. two thumbs up!

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1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp




Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 2:09 AM
XtreamCC, I believe you're absolutely right. I kinda worried about that a bit.. Also, the bass is TOO dry and dampened now. Maybe taking half of it out will be the sweet spot :).

Hell yeah it needs a cleaning. :)

I just carpeted the amp cover today, it turned out pretty well, I'll post the picture here tomorrow :). (Too dark for the camera to focus at the moment).

Yeah the mirror problem is basically fixed, I just slapped the $20 mirror from Kragen on there - still vibrates, but doesn't move and doesn't rattle.

Although, now that the amps and woofers are looking clean, the auxiliary battery isn't looking so hot - maybe I'll have to build something to cover that too. I've got a ton of spare MDF (bought way too much) so why not :).

I'm gonna have to RTA the damn thing again though. I had a very slight hum problem (probably coming from the EQ which is powered off not-so-clean inverter power) so I turned the amp gains down to compensate - and since i'm running separate woofer/tweeter amps, it disrupted the balance of course.

There's no such thing as "done" when it comes to car audio, I suppose...

///Leif




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 9:03 AM
Just saw it! Looks GREAT! Clean install! (wish mine looked that good <grin>) The only thing I saw was the polyfill interfering with the vents... (but this has already been sorta mentioned) you shouldn't have anything within a diameter distance of the vent... (i.e. a 4" vent needs 4" of clearance) That stuff is gonna fluff all over the place! Impressive box building, tho!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 9:11 AM
oh, and vaccuum that thing! LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 2:13 PM
Try using twisted pair cable RCA's to eliminate that hum.  The cables you used are fine in the house, but they're surrounded by a sheet metal ground circuit in a car.  But you know that.  And inside that enclosure is a tough place to be for the Lightning amp.  Otherwise, besides what else has been mentioned,  it looks like a well-designed and installed system.  Oh, is there any air flow underneath the amp cover?...the pic shows openings for heat escape but doesn't show air entry areas.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: xtreamcc
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 2:26 PM
dont get me started kfr! you either chicago pimp boy! GRRR! Posting up some 'facts', what the heck man, ur gona get everyone confused with these 'fact' things haha, but yeah, I know its not plagrizm unless you use it in a work of liturature without quoting when and by whom stated it, I was just giv'n suburb a hard time posted_image haha. ANYWAY, thats all I have to say bout that,

"There's no such thing as "done" when it comes to car audio, I suppose..."

Damn strait! Thats the most true thing I've ever heard haha.

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"Shiny chrome when used in conjunction with bikini models is particularly effective in inducing brain deficit disorder"

02 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Monster System on its way.




Posted By: dpaton
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 7:35 PM
The install looks really slick, but there is one thing that my experiences force me to comment on...

Leif]I wrote:

had a very slight hum problem (probably coming from the EQ which is powered off not-so-clean inverter power)


Altho I'm sure you were told that the MEQ-230 is a great stereo 31 band EQ, I'd run away from it. They hum and pop and sizzle and generally act like misbehaving phase shifting sound mangling machines. You're better off using a 4 band parametric to fix specific issues than to try and shape the overall sound with that graph.

<soapbox>

Mainly that's because graphic EQs don't behave like people think they should. If you pull down 2 adjacent faders 3dB, the resultant response won't be a 3dB dip at those two frequencies as you'd expect, it'll be an 8-12dB dip at the average of those two frequencies. It'll also severely mess up the phase in a (roughly) one octave band centered over the faders you moved. Since phase of an audio signal is another way of looking at time delay, graphic EQs really clobber the phase response of a system, which can make a rig that RTAs perfectly sound like *ss. There are a few EQs that work very wll, because they use a DSP to read the position of the faders and construct a response that looks just like the front of the EQ. Rane's DEQ-60 and -60L along with the DBX iEQ series come to mind. Old EQs from IRP (the TEQ) have a very flat phase response because of their design (Transversal EQualizer), but are scarcer than hen's teeth, and need a clean AC supply.
<soapbox>

FWIW, this is intended as constructive criticism. It's entirely possible that the MEQ230 is helping a little, but I think the benefits of a better EQ would be quite noticable, starting with reliability and hummmm.

-dave

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This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack.




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 8:12 PM

Thanks for the post, Dave.  Quite informative.  Your soapbox info re: EQ's is something you just can't find anywhere other than from the mouth of pros.



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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 8:26 PM
Thanks for your reply Dave, you're absolutely right!

It's not that great (i really only bought it because it was inexpensive) - and I really couldn't flatten out the RTA response all that much. I attribute most of the peaks/valleys to room response / microphone placement, but the EQ wasn't able to correct narrow peaks and valleys. It IS able to correct for the resonance in the kickpods around 150hz though, and phase errors really only occur if you do wild boost/cuts, which I'm not doing.

Hum was a (barely) audible problem, but it's not any more. I went through the entire system with a scope, making sure the signal is as hot as possible every step of the way, while still staying a couple of dB's from clipping.

For example, I learned that over volume 25, the alpine head unit adds nothing but distortion. (Volume control goes up to 35).

Utilizing the +18dBu output stage of the alesis eq (that's 6 volt pre-out in car audio language) and turning the gains on the amps all the way down, I was able to get rid of the noise completely. As in, with the engine on and my ear against the speaker, I can't hear it at all :). Neither hum nor alternator whine.

That being said, at some point I certainly wouldn't mind upgrading. Being an audio software engineer, it really bugs me how much gear you need to accomplish such simple things as crossovers and equalization!

It'd take me less than a day to write software to do this. With an FFT I could do completely phase linear equalization.. So, next time i feel the need to upgrade I'll probably have to go digital. A 2-in 6-out programmable DSP platform (something like a UCS PRO I guess, except I'd rather do it myself) would be ideal. Maybe later :).

At the moment, the MEQ-230 does much more good than bad. In fact I don't hear any phase problems at all, and it does have convenient bypass switches so I've been able to A/B it easily.

///Leif





Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 8:35 PM
By the way, here's my measured RTA response. (I used the TrueRTA application, with a Behringer ECM8000 microphone connected to a Motu 828 firewire audio interface.)

posted_image

I've never used (or had) an RTA system before, I just bought the microphone although I had the other parts already.

It seems that the placement of the microphone matters a lot for high frequency response. Even just moving it a couple of inches changes things. I had the microphone between the driver seat and headrest, pointing forward (i.e. right about where my nose would be had I been sitting there), windows down, and I was outside the car when I measured.

Anyway, is this a workable RTA approach, or should I rethink/redo things?

///Leif




Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 27, 2004 at 8:43 PM
Man, that response looks really sh*tty, doesn't it?

///Leif




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: July 28, 2004 at 1:51 PM

Leif, I also just bought the same mic and truerta software.  It seems to be a pretty good solution considering that stand alone RTA's are much more expensive.

I think your response looks pretty good! I'm just starting to play around w/ RTA / EQing too, but I read somewhere that a good goal to start with is to smooth the 1/3 octave transitions to around less than +-3db.  I can only count 5 places on your curve where this isn't true on your curve.

As I'm going through the same experience here's a shot of the critical midrange area I'm working on now:

This whole process is fairly frustrating.  The Eclipse Hu 5 band quasi-parametric EQ isn't doing the trick.  The Q is either too narrow or too wide with the 3 position Q configuration on the unit. 

posted_image



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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: July 28, 2004 at 5:25 PM
Sorry for the crappy cropped picture.  30k limit on pic uploads gets small.  :-)

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: DaGr8n8
Date Posted: July 28, 2004 at 7:58 PM
pretty freake n tite system if i have to say so my self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Posted By: Leif
Date Posted: July 28, 2004 at 10:02 PM
Kfr01, I do wonder how much of this is due just to microphone placement. I mean, for higher frequencies moving the mic really changes things.. Although the same can't be said for midrange frequencies like this, I suppose.

How are your speakers mounted?

Oh, and check this out:

posted_image

Just finished that :).

///Leif




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: July 29, 2004 at 12:05 AM

Looks great man.  I also wonder about the accuracy of the truerta/behringer mic setup.  Almost makes me want to call around to car audio stores and see if they'll just take 5 minutes to measure my system to compare the results. 

My components are mounted in the lower door position. 



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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder





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