I'd say make your own for cheaper.  That is if you know how to solder.  Below is a link to an article my boss wrote comparing some inexpensive Coaxial cable to cat 5 (twisted pair).  You can see how the co-axial is better.  https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/CarCables.pdf

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

How could you do it improperly? 

IMO Monster cable is nice, but you are mainly paying for the looks.  You can get just as good performance out of making your own and not spending $45 per cable.

If you don't mind spending a great deal of money for the looks, or you don't know how to solder, then by all means buy the other stuff.  But if you can solder, then I suggest making your own.  The other advantage is that you can make them specifically to the lengths you need so you don't have to hide extra lengths of RCA's anywhere.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

This is a discoustion I will pick up tomorrow or on wednesday after work. There are actually quite a few built in features on monster cable that people dont know about that justify spending the money. Its features that most people dont know about but that make a pretty signifigant difference. It also involves technology that someone cant just duplicate with a soldering gun and discount bulk cable. I just dont want to list them all off until I double check exactly what the proper terms are and wat exactly they do and why they help, no point in missinforming people. Most people dont know about the magnetic flux tube or the time correct winding they use in the higher end home speaker wire, but it makes a huge difference and it is something that defiinatly cannot be duplicated by someone off the street.

I look forward to your next post then. 

It would really be neat to also see how much of it is psycho-acoustics and how much of it really makes a difference.  Personally I think the differences (if any) are going to be so slight, that it would be much better to spend the extra money elsewhere in the system where it will make a much larger difference (sound deadening).

I guess I get a little hesitant when it comes to the high end audio maket and some of their claims.  Here's a perfect example of what I mean: https://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C&Category_Code=VOLUME&Product_Count=2

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

"This is a discoustion I will pick up tomorrow or on wednesday after work. There are actually quite a few built in features on monster cable that people dont know about that justify spending the money. Its features that most people dont know about but that make a pretty signifigant difference. It also involves technology that someone cant just duplicate with a soldering gun and discount bulk cable. I just dont want to list them all off until I double check exactly what the proper terms are and wat exactly they do and why they help, no point in missinforming people. Most people dont know about the magnetic flux tube or the time correct winding they use in the higher end home speaker wire, but it makes a huge difference and it is something that defiinatly cannot be duplicated by someone off the street."

as an electronics technician....

I would have to say that it is fairly simple to craft some RCA cables.

I am also at a loss to understand how something can be soldered improperly....I don't think I could do that if I tried.

Monster can take thier time correction windings and thier flux capacitors and whatever garbage they put into those things and forget all about it.

Time correction? You mean to tell me that a signal which travels at the speed of light needs to be 'corrected' to accomodate a sound signal? For example: a radar mile is 12.36mS that's a roundtrip of Rf energy reflecting off of an object 1 mile away.....that means at 6.18mS that energy has traveled one mile......well correct me if I'm wrong, but the same sound energy would have traveled .0071688 feet? 

Hey, like Vin Diesel says: it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile.....

I'm also waiting to hear how monster incorporates this technology that is so important...but then agian, I wouldn't want to be mis-informed! Hey, you said it! 

The only thing I will add to your discoustion, is that Monster does make nice wires...I've used them many times. However, I have never actually bought any for myself, only when someone already has them.

To the OP, anything fully shielded is good, good connections at the ends...and all else follows.

I have used a set from a rockford 'connecting punch' which worked good and were cheap, I also have several sets of MA audio RCA cables, they are clear, so I can see that each conductor is fully shielded via twisted strands, even more redundant, those twisted strands are insulated and twisted around eachother....in short, they work fine and let in no noise. I got these for free when I was installing....and no I did not steal them.....one of the few advantages of installing: FREEBIES!!!!

I made my own cable for my electric bass with shielded 3 conductor, all I did was twist two together and solder to the center pins on each end, then I soldered the shield and another conductor together for the ground. The only noise I got was from a bad tone control potentiometer in the guitar...with both pots open, there is no noise....none! only the hum from the magnet and this is with OLD leftover wire I got from the trash and I was using a homemade RCA adapter to connect this to my old school FET kenwood reciever.....still, no noise.

If it is so easy to make cables that are just as good then why do musicians happly shell out big bucks to have all their cabling they use in their shows provided by monster. Its not like a person sitting in the audience sees them using monster and says "well sh*t they must be good, their using monster." They dont use it because of status, they use it because they can notice a difference in the sound. I sell the suff and have several demos set up in my store that shows the difference. I have one where I use a cheap $20 digital coax and then a monster coax worth about $100. The sound is so much fuller using the monster cable that I have yet to have anyone say that they dont hear a huge difference between the two. Same reciever, same cd player, same speakers, same speaker wire, way better sound using monster. I also have a demonstration set up where I use a set of $135 dollar speaker wires ran to a set of towers off a yamaha reciever, then I have an identical set of tower hooked up using no name wire, $20 bucks for 50 feet, hooked up on the b side of the reciever. I can a/b that set up all day long and you will hear a difference on any disc you put in that cd player, everytime. DO trying to tell me that it doesnt make a difference or that you can make a set just as good by using buk stuff you get at your local electronics warehouse is complete bullsh*t as far as I am concerend. Last test Ill tell you about is that I took a set of AR master series RCA's with a retail of about $160 and A/B them with a set of monster cables at the same price. Once again the monster cables showed a very clear and distinct improvment in the overall sound quality but was esspecially noticeable in the bottom end. I'll try and get the actuall techno talk up tomorrow and the purpose behind it all. Dont get me wrong, they have somethings where they try to stress how important it is and it is really just another notch in their belt but in the end the cabling is just that damn good. If it wasnt the company wouldnt be able to survive by making just cabling. The arent supporting them selves by selling powerbars and powercenters. I am also not saying its the best you can get, just the best at there price point.

ya' know, I almost want to agree that they do make great cables.  But I said it already, Monster does make good cabling. I think the musicians like it because it can take the abuse, with monster, you're paying for insulation and connectors.

Could I make something equally rugged and long lasting.....yes, and probably much cheaper and much more uglier than monster.

I'm not saying my 'hack job' cables are superior to Monster, again monster makes good wiring....however, I'm sure I could go toe to toe with them on your demo setup all day long.

Two questions for you: Is the no-name speaker wire the correct gauge end to end? Are the connections as good as the monster cable? Is it pure copper?

Let's examine for a moment, an electronics test instrument I use from time to time....the oscilloscope. This is very acurate in measuring signals and pretty much any AC voltages. To connect it to the equipment, a standard BNC probe with thin coax is used. Using coax has been mentioned already, I wouldn't use it in a car, but it would work fine. How could a piece of $20,000 test equipment use this type of cabling to recieve a signal, but it's not good enough for a car stereo amplifier?

Speaking of an O-scope, it would be interesting to run some test tones and show the readings at the speaker with a dual trace.

I'm interested in what you have to say, but who is the world going to believe, a lowly electronics technician or a Monster Cable sales person? I'm interested in what you have to say, but you need to brush up on your techno talk.

what is techno talk anyways? "yo check out my glo-sticks" "I think you need to drink more water...and take a vitaman C with that!" "Yo, these beats sound dope through these monster cables!"

I am open minded to what you have to say and I will agree if you can indeed prove that self made cables (made from inexpensive materials) are as far inferior to Monster or these other brands as you say they are. After all, what does monster start out with? Do they get thier copper from a special mine and use silver solder in thier connections? what do they do that could possibly make thier wiring so superior?

Why would they just make audio cabling? Why isn't the phone company, cable company and the military using these?

Believe me, if some of those musicians knew how easy it was to have cables made and how much cheaper it was....Monster would lose thier grip on that industry fast. The bottom line is that they have the money and they don't care. 

flynntech wrote:

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ya' know, I almost want to agree that they do make great cables.  But I said it already, Monster does make good cabling. I think the musicians like it because it can take the abuse, with monster, you're paying for insulation and connectors.

Could I make something equally rugged and long lasting.....yes, and probably much cheaper and much more uglier than monster.

I'm not saying my 'hack job' cables are superior to Monster, again monster makes good wiring....however, I'm sure I could go toe to toe with them on your demo setup all day long.

Two questions for you: Is the no-name speaker wire the correct gauge end to end? Are the connections as good as the monster cable? Is it pure copper?

Let's examine for a moment, an electronics test instrument I use from time to time....the oscilloscope. This is very acurate in measuring signals and pretty much any AC voltages. To connect it to the equipment, a standard BNC probe with thin coax is used. Using coax has been mentioned already, I wouldn't use it in a car, but it would work fine. How could a piece of $20,000 test equipment use this type of cabling to recieve a signal, but it's not good enough for a car stereo amplifier?

Speaking of an O-scope, it would be interesting to run some test tones and show the readings at the speaker with a dual trace.

I'm interested in what you have to say, but who is the world going to believe, a lowly electronics technician or a Monster Cable sales person? I'm interested in what you have to say, but you need to brush up on your techno talk.

what is techno talk anyways? "yo check out my glo-sticks" "I think you need to drink more water...and take a vitaman C with that!" "Yo, these beats sound dope through these monster cables!"

I am open minded to what you have to say and I will agree if you can indeed prove that self made cables (made from inexpensive materials) are as far inferior to Monster or these other brands as you say they are. After all, what does monster start out with? Do they get thier copper from a special mine and use silver solder in thier connections? what do they do that could possibly make thier wiring so superior?

Why would they just make audio cabling? Why isn't the phone company, cable company and the military using these?

Believe me, if some of those musicians knew how easy it was to have cables made and how much cheaper it was....Monster would lose thier grip on that industry fast. The bottom line is that they have the money and they don't care. 

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Why does it matter if they sound better? I have tried monster cable over regular cables that are pretty much generic and I definitely prefer the Monster cables over the generic stuff. The price is kind of steep though. I think Straightwire makes just as good of a cable for less though.

One other thing to keep in mind as well is the home environment and car environment are two competely different areas.  What works well in one won't necessarily work well in the other.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

"I can also say that my general experience is that alot of "Electronic Technitians" have thier head shoved so far up their ass that the possibility of them being wrong or even being open to someone elses opinion is generally outta the question."

So wrong....infact, I've been wrong on several occasions.

"As far as durability goes, you know that the center pin carries a 75 ohm impedence right, well now take your self made cable and bend it to a 45 degree angle and see if your cable maintains that 75 ohm impedence, i doubt it will. Now take a monster cable rca and run the same test, its gonna pass everytime.I will be honest with you, I havent ever used an ossciliscope but to be honest with you I dont see how that has anything to do with the current situation"

You are right, some cabling has a better bend radius than others. With a dual-trace, you can see what you hear and it does have an A and B channel....so why not?

I'm sorry I pissed you off, I never meant for this to be a heated discussion. I was hoping to learn something new here.  

I had a bad  day and probally over reacted. My bad. I think what really pissed me off was the comments about

"what is techno talk anyways? "yo check out my glo-sticks" "I think you need to drink more water...and take a vitaman C with that!" "Yo, these beats sound dope through these monster cables!" "

By techno talk I meant using the phrases time correct winding, magnetic flux tube, PEXTM dielectric insulation and protective mylar foil shielding. I new the terms but wanted to make sure I had the meanings down cold before I started throwing them around. I dont start tossing around stuff I dont know about. If I am unsure about something Im not gonna try to talk about it.

So here are the deinitions right off of monsters web site about some of the tech that goes into thier wire and actually matters.

Bandwidth Balanced® Design
This technology combines Time Correct windings with the use of selected multiple-gauged constructions to pass the music in correct amplitude and phase. Monster's balanced design interconnect cables use equal conductors for the positive and negative conductors with a passive "ground" shield. The positive signal must be identical to the negative signal, electrically and magnetically, otherwise there will be an imbalance, causing a resultant signal that is a distortion of the original waveform. That is why coaxial cables, commonly used in low cost interconnects (and some high priced ones also), cannot be correctly time compensated and will always be inaccurate.

The results of distortions in wire are audible because in the analog world, we directly hear the electrical signals transferred to vibrations in the air. These vibrations reach our ear drums, which send the signals to our brain, where we interpret them as music. Any distortions in this chain are correctly and accurately detected in our ability to hear variations in frequency and time, which relates to our perceptions of music, harmonic overtones, directionality, dimensionality and space. Monster's Bandwidth Balanced constructions overcome most of these distortions (no wire is perfect) in a way that no other cable can. It's obvious that regardless of the purity of the material used (we have evaluated all the various LCOFC, OCC, six 9's copper, etc.), one must still overcome amplitude and time domain distortions to achieve accurate sound reproduction.

One can hear the frequency extensions, phase characteristics and dimensionality of Monster's three-network Interlink Reference and M1000 Mk III vs. our less expensive two-network Interlink 400, or our network-less Interlink 300, or some other manufacturer's coaxial or balanced cable that has no amplitude or phase compensation at all. Be aware that the use of multiple gauged conductors themselves is no guarantee of sonic accuracy, and that correct winding constructions and accurate manufacturing are significant factors.

Magnetic Flux Tube®
This is the technology of running a dielectric down the middle of a connector bundle or a large insulated wire. The dielectric "breaks up" internal magnetic fields that are strongest at the center, thereby reducing the time related distortions of conventional cable. This design is even incorporated in our lowest priced XP speaker cable, which, when compared to other cables of the equivalent gauge and "look", far outperforms them in the areas of neutrality, smoothness and lack of high-end grittiness. Dynamic range is also more noticeable since the apparent noise level is reduced. We invite you to listen to Monster's speaker cables that employ this unique design technology.

Time Correct® Windings
While effective in lower cost cables, Amplitude Balanced construction does not complete the whole picture. Time domain distortions can be improved, but cannot be accurately controlled to give us the sonic attributes that are related to phase as described earlier. In interconnect cables we correct these time domain distortions by creating a longer path and higher impedances for the higher frequencies. We cannot speed up the lows, so we must delay the highs. By winding the high frequency conductors to create inductance at those frequencies, we delay them in time to pass through the cable at the same time with the slower lower frequencies. This develops the ability to capture lost phase-related information such as dimensionality, soundstage, imaging and depth.

This technology places great demands on our manufacturing processes to precisely wind the wire, control the number of turns for the different conductors-which is especially difficult because the smaller high frequency wires need to be more precisely and tightly wound than the low frequencies, and to delicately handle varying gauges of conductors that are wound together without breakage or waste.

The complexity of the windings increases the cost proportionately since machine time is very expensive. The complexity of Monster's constructions in our higher priced cables is apparent to the eye, but it's the audible results of Time Correct construction that are well worth the cost and effort.