Suggestions on Basic Car Stereo Setup

Don't know much about head units, but Alpine always seems to be good.

Ditch the rear speakers and use the money to buy an amp to power the front speakers.  Run the existing rears off the deck at a low level.

Mike

sony says xplod for a reason!!!!!!!! pioneer is good thier premier decks blow sony away for the money......pioneer also makes good skrs....good choice.....look at the pioneer premier deh-460 or 560..........

Eclipse's website: www.eclipse-web.com If you want a light show in your dash Eclipse isn't going to suit you (at least their lower end stuff isn't), but they sound amazing (easily beat pioneer and alpine soundwise). Eclipse's 3414 can play MP3 discs though. If you must have a light show, Pioneer makes some descent head-units that can do just that. This amp will do for those 6x9s.

Here's what I'd do for the best possible system for the money in my opinion

1) Buy a clean deck.   Alpine, Clarion, Eclipse, Nakamichi ...
2) Buy a clean 4 channel amp.  Alpine, Diamond, Eclipse, Memphis, MTX, Nakamichi, Xtant, Zapco ..
3) Replace your front speakers with decent 2-ways or components.  Try to avoid using the odd shaped speakers (4x6, etc.)
Don't buy these before you've listened and A/B tested with your music.   Try Focal, Infinity, MB Quart, Memphis, Diamond ..
4) Buy a small single sub and build a small sealed box to fill out the bottom end
5) Use 2 channels from the amp to power the front and 2 channels bridged to power the sub until you want to spend money on a separate sub amp

Lessons I learned the hard way:
1) Don't throw money into expensive 6x9s for the rear - the sound should come from the front and 6x9's generally create some nasty harsh sound coming off all the glass in the rear.  In fact, I don't like speakers in back at all.
2) Don't plan on using head unit power for your primary speakers.  If you like to turn the volume up at all you'll be very disappointed in the quality of the sound and the limit to the clean power.
3) A subwoofer is important, even for people like me that don't like rap.  6.5", 6x9" whatever only play well down to 80-120hz or so.  You miss A LOT of the guts of any kind of music by skipping out on 30-80hz.
4) Frequency response specs, wattage specs, distortion specs, etc. don't really mean anything because everyone measures them differently.  Don't buy based on specs.  Buy first on sound, then on reputation and build quality.

I'm sorry, he said he was looking for quality over loudness, didn't he?  Additionally, he said he was on a budget, right?

I think most folks on here will agree that for sound quality over loudness:
1)  Front stage is way more important than the rear fill       and
2)  A subwoofer is more important than rear fill

Having said that, with a limited budget, I consider an expensive 6x9 a waste of money if looking for SQ.  I stand by what I said in my first post.

I've never heard a 6x9 system that I'd call an adequate replacement for a subwoofer.  Kudos to you if you've managed to do it. 

6x9's simply can't play as deep, clean, and flat as a subwoofer below 80hz. 

Buy the sub first and do the bass correctly the first time.  If you still need to spend more money, then go ahead with the expensive 6x9's.

I'm NOT talking about more bass or louder bass, I'm talking about accurate deep and clean bass.  Good luck getting that with a pair of EQ'd up 6x9's. 

You've pointed out the one benefit to a 6x9:  it can play _slightly_ deeper than a 6.5" round. 

Car makers put oval drivers in cars to fit a speaker in.  The oval shape is not optimal.  Physics people, please help me out here, but I've been told that the oval shape can distort easier because of the uneven stresses on the cone and the surround.  Additionally, I've always thought that the tonal quality of 6x9" speakers is poor.  Does someone have a physics related reason for this?  The crossovers on a $200 pair of 6x9's are generally crap compared to a similarly priced 6.5" coax or component set. 

Do you ever see oval speakers on expensive home audio systems?  No.  It simply isn't the optimal design. 

I think my biggest complaint about 6x9's is that the rear deck is a poor place for midrange / highs unless you're doing some sort of multimedia thing or don't care about having the best possible sound for your budget.

Quality car audio sound will create a nicely imaged front sound stage.  6x9's muck this up.  Furthermore, because each 6x9's will be further away from your ear than the other drivers in the car, the sounds from the 6x9's will be reaching your ear at slightly different times than the front speakers.  This is bad. 

Finally, even if you don't get some harsh reflection off the back glass (every tweeter I've ever heard firing into the rear glass sure sounds harsh to me), your 6x9" driver isn't exactly 'on axis' or pointing at your ear.  This means that certain frequencies the 6x9" driver produces will sound more pronounced than others from your seat.  One of the goals of quality sound is smooth frequency response.  I find that 6x9's in the rear deck generally work against this goal. 

Again.  I'm not saying you can't have a good sounding car with 6x9's!  All I'm saying is that they are less than optimal for sound quality and I think your money is better spent working on some sub bass and a quality front stage first. 

Not all cars have the rears pointing at the glass, kfr01.  So we have to take each situation into account.  I use speakers in the rear deck in my car for three reasons:  mainly, when adjusted just right they "pull" the front soundstage out of my lower doors and up into the air around my head.  They could only muck up the sound if you were able to hear them.  Attenuated properly, you don't (sitting in the front).  Secondly, they provide stereo sound for my daughter and her friends when we're out driving somewhere.  And third, they are there because the car had factory originals there. 

The back deck is angled toward the front, and there is no harshness coming out of those rears.  In fact, sitting in the rear seat, one gets the same effect as sitting in the front:  the sound is pulled by the other set of speakers so that it isn't so easily located.  So, the car itself is a determining factor.  Another factor is the quality and placement of the fronts.  If door locations are used, the rears can be helpful.  But if the fronts by themselves are perfect and no help is needed for imaging, leave out the rears.

I certainly agree that the rears should be a lower cost consideration in relation to the fronts and the sub.  In most cases, coaxials are totally appropriate here even when very fine components are used up front.  And they can certainly make for some good bass while the subwoofer aspect is bought and paid for and worked into the system.  I would buy them as closeouts on the internet, and have no more than about 50 dollars in them for the pair.

I was not aware that some decks don't point straight at the rear glass;  I stand corrected on that point. 

Stevdart, I agree with everything you said.  Your post was very informative.  I actually think you highlighted my point well:  Rear speakers should take a lower priority in the budget than the fronts and sub.  For the best sound they should be carefully integrated into the system and attenuated, not cranked to the max.

vbel:  Quality subs don't "boom boom."  In many cases a quality sub in a sealed box will be tighter than a 6x9 infinite baffle setup.  I don't listen to any rap.  The difference and quality a subwoofer can add is huge for any type of music.  I primarily listen to contemporary vocals, jazz, and rock.  6x9's are not subwoofer replacements.

Yes, defective, it was about Basic Car Stereo Setup.  I stand by my original statement for a Basic Car Stereo Setup:  6x9 rears should have a lower priority in a small budget than front stage and sub bass.  How is that not basic advice? 

A lot of you have said, 'it just has to be good enough for the owner' or 'my setup is just fine.'  I couldn't agree with you more.  Sometimes a completely factory system is 'good enough.'  But, when someone asks for advice on a budget and requests SQ, I'm not going to say, 'oh, just buy 6x9's.' 

Advice is about the advisor sharing what would be OPTIMAL for the advisee given a request and budget restrictions.  I'm sorry, but you simply aren't going to convince me that having a 6x9 set turned up so it is a 'subwoofer replacement' is anywhere near optimal.  A patch until you get a subwoofer?  Fine, but I wouldn't recommend spending much money on it. 

Again.  Is 6x9 sound 'good enough?'  Not for me.  It might be for you.