Printer Friendly Forum Posts - What is a suitable sub&amp for me?

I want to put a sub in my system and I need some recommendations of a sub and an amp, which will provide juice to the sub. The reason for my decision is because I have a loud exhaust and I have to turn it up to hear the music. I already have 4 speakers amped and it is all great, but with volume up, I have to turn down the bass with eq, 'cause it rattles and the bass becomes kind of sloppy/dull. So what I need is something that can play loud enough for me, to overcome the exhaust noise, mostly while driving on the highway. I'm looking primarily for SQ, but it has to be loud enough too.

I'm thinking of a 300 rms, 10 inch, 4 ohm sub in a sealed box. I read it has better SQ than larger subs and it will also save trunk space. A lot of people say Alpine Type R is very good...so it is one of my choices. What else is good out there? I understand that a lot of them are moreless equally good, so I just want to see a list that will do me good and from there I will chose based on price and looks.

Which amp? I already have a Phoenix Gold Octane R 75x4 amp in the trunk. I could get a similiar mono PG amp to match the other amp or get something else that you recommend.

And do you think 300 rms is enough? I don't wanna buy something to find out later on that I need more watts to make it as loud as I need.

SQ is out of the question with a loud exhaust. The tone of the muffler wipes out any quality you hope to get with your sub music. Use a quiet car for SQ. What you need is extra power to overcome all the noises your car makes. Running a sub at 4 ohms with a loud car is a waste of amplifier, IMO. I run at 4 ohms, but my car is quiet. Look for a minimum of 500 watts at 2 ohms into either one or two subs that will match or exceed that power.

You also need to upgrade the damping in the car, the sheet metal is rattling. Amps are easy to find now for that power range, and a class D mono amp would suit your purpose. If you listen to subs for comparison...have your car right there with the tailpipe screaming so you can hear the sound in a real-life situation!

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

500 watts...would I need to upgrade my power sources to push 500 watts + 300 watts in my car? It's a 2000 Prelude.

It's not the sheet metal that's rattling, but door panels, rear speaker covers (I removed them now) and my right rear speaker, because for some reason it doesn't seem to be mounted strong enough.

Possibly not. Some cars need an upgrade when any amp is installed, others will power a lot of extra stuff and not show any signs of suffering. You can get a sub amp with a remote adjustment knob, and keep it turned down some most of the time. Your actual wattage would normally be far less than 500...it would just be that high for headroom. And a mono amp is 90% efficient compared to the stereo amp at 55%, so the power consumption is less for power provided. Running it at a 2 ohm load makes the amp produce more current, but the consumption of power from the car remains the same as it would be running it at a 4 ohm load. You just would have to load it up and see. Sometimes just a reconnection of grounds under the hood or an upgrade in those wires will do the trick.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

What I would reccomend isL

1 Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1D parallel for 2 ohms
1 Sealed enclosure
1 PG Xenon 400.1

Should give you plenty of sound for your need. Both the amp and sub are know for good SQ, so you should likey likey.

Paul

I like what you suggested. For the 400.1 amp, it produces 400 rms watts at how many ohms?

The PG 400.1 produces 400RMS @ 2 I think. I could be worng though, I would check their website. They have forums there, so you could ask someone there.

Paul

I checked the site and it says from 1 to 4 ohm and somehow it automatically selects the right amount of ohms. I hope it's not 400 watts at 1 ohm though...

Actually, the sheet metal vibrating from the road is probably causing most of the other noises you're hearing. You can deaden those vibrations, the noises they are causing, and muffle the sound from the exhaust with deadening material.

I also drive a very loud car and doing the doors and trunk helped quite a bit. I plan to do more when I get the time. Check out raamaudio.com, b-quiet.com brown bread, and dynamat xtreme bulk pack deals on ebay.

In fact, now that I'm talking I'm going to go ahead and disagree with stevdart on this one. Pros, as always, please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Say our friend here wants to listen to his music at 90db with a small 300 watt 10" sub system. He spends some time matching his gains, etc. and his mids, highs, and sub all play well matched around 90db. Say that they are all playing well within their limits. Add in the car with the loud exhaust. The muffler kills some of the bass/midbass. Short of any upgrades he has two options as I see it: turn everything up with the volume control when it gets loud or keep the volume / gain up on the bass all the time to compensate for when the muffler is being loud. If he does either of these two things and his sub amp / subwoofer are still well within their capable playing levels, what good will an extra 200 watts do? Maybe I totally don't understand, but as long as his amp can push his sub as loud as he wants with room to spare, what is the point of throwing more watts in the trunk? Why put the extra watts back there?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Sorry, but I also have to disagree with stevdart. Sure the exhaust is going to interfere with the bass notes a bit, it really isn't that bad. I have a 97 Full size chev. with true dual exhaust with dual cats and turbo tube mufflers (just barely street legal) and I am only running 250 watts to my sub under the back seat, and it's plenty loud. I see that kfr01's system is Extremely similar to mine, so you know what I'm talkin' about. Just look for a very efficient sub in the correct size enclosure with a good quality amp, and you should be alright.

As far as the PG amp - I haven't looked it up, but it sounds like it has a regulated power suppy, meaning that it will produce the same power no matter what you hook to it (well, you know, within it's limits). There's more to it than that, but that's the basic gist of it. Some other amps with regulated supplies that come to mind are JL Audio slash series, some Memphis, .....

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You'd better get me out of this lord... or else you'll have me to deal with. -- Hunter S. Thompson "F.A.L.I.L.V."

I Dont recall and PG series amps with regulated power supplies. I believe that that is the power that amp delivers into 2 ohms, and for subs you could look at a MTX 7500 or 8500, You could look at a JL W3, you could look at eclipse alluminums, you can look at Boston Pro, this list is pretty much endless for good quality stuff. Do you have any local shops and if you do what do they sell. If we can recomend stuff sold locally then you can go and hear it first then decide for yourself.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

vbel]I wrote:

understand that a lot of them are moreless equally good, so I just want to see a list that will do me good and from there I will chose based on price and looks.

Ok, well price and looks are important, but they should always be 2nd and 3rd to sound. Don't buy anything without listening to it first.

Next, I went to PG's website and here's what it says on the variable load: It's not a regulated power suppy, but it does hold power over all loads.

XENON AMPLIFIER SPECS:

•	Xe.flow™ variable thermal feedback controlled fans

•	Xe.tune™ 24dB Linkwitz-Riley low pass and subsonic filter

•	Xe.load™ optimized for any impedance load

	XENON 400.1 ---------------------------- • High efficiency (greater than 80%) Class D Operation • Buffered RCA full range thru output • Remote Monitoring Display (RMD) port • Low Pass Level control ready (LPL-44)
	400W x 1 (4-1 ohm)

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You'd better get me out of this lord... or else you'll have me to deal with. -- Hunter S. Thompson "F.A.L.I.L.V."

Hey guys,It's not the fact that it is a "stereo" or "mono" amp that gives you better power eff.It is what type of amplifier class you have.Class A/B is apporx 46% while Class D is 80%-90%.For your Import I'd look for a class D.No more that 500 watts or you will be needing an upgraded alternator.Try HiFonics.Good luck

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BigDog

I'll be buying everything off ebay, as I usually do. Already found that amp for like 220 USD, from the same seller who sold me the other PG amp. Shipping though is kind of a rip off...50 bux.

I think that Infinity amp looks pretty good. 350 watts and 94db sensitivity (10 inch) and 96db for a 12 inch. Probably will stick with a 10 inch...don't think these 2db would do much...besides, most of other subs are like in 83-87 db range.

Sorry, that is "Infinity sub", not amp.

Where is the edit button any way? ;)

One question about Infinity. Their frequency range is 18-150. Should I look for something higher than 150? That way I could crossover my rear speakers higher than 150 and eliminate all the rattling.

No not at all. Chances are that the sub will be crossed over lower than 120hz.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Hehe, I have an edit button.....

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Why would I wanna crossover it lower than 120hz? Would it blow by playing lets say something in between 200-500hz?

No the sub would not blow by playing at a fequency higher than 120hz. What it would do is take the sub out of the range of frequencies that it was designed to play at. Meaing it will be playing into the realm of midbass. What you hear is generally muddy sound in your bass response. By keeping the frequency range lower on this particular driver and restricting it's range of frequencies by using a crossover, the sub can do what it was designed to do, play sub bass, not midbass or midrange. While there may be applications where a sub like this is used as a midbass, this is not the case in your system.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Also, as the frequency creeps higher you'll start to localize the source easier. You generally do not want to tell where the bass in a system is coming from if it is coming from somewhere other than your front stage.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

How big of a speaker wire is recommended for a 350 rms sub? Is 12 gauge ok?

12 gauge is fine.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

The alpine sub is crap for SQ. I'd want to say to go with a single 10 IDQ10v2D4 here and clean amp to power it. Another sub you may want to consder is either a JL 10 W3v2 or a JL 10 W6v2. Another option would be the new IDMAX 10. You might also consider going with a pair of 8's. I like them in a sq setup, especially a pair of JL 8W3's (for the more budget minded consumer). Or Resonant Engineering 8's or Diamond 8's. Another company that makes a quality 8 is Treo engineering. There are bunches of options yu can go with, just make sure you get a good clean amp to power it. I'd also tend to go with a small sealed enclosure in this type of application. Ported may be an option though, depending on the sub. Just make sure to stay away from a bandpass enclosure.

I'll give a vote out for the Image Dynamics 10IDQ10v2 as well. I have been extremely happy with this subwoofer. It is easy to power, requires a very small box, has great sq for the price, and gets as loud as I need it to.

Having said that, if I had to do it over again I'd probably open the pocket a bit more and go for a Brahma 10 from Adire. I'm also curious about the Koda 10".

Steven, any chance we can see a frequency response plot for the Koda 10"?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Ah...I got everything ordered now. The PG 400.1 amp and the Infinity 10 inch sub. Can't wait to see it at my door :)

Good deal. Don't get me worng, Image Dynamics makes some good subs, but check this thread.

vbel]A wrote:

...I got everything ordered now. The PG 400.1 amp and the Infinity 10 inch sub. Can't wait to see it at my door :)

You got the same setup I do, only I have a 12" sub. When your stuff does arrive it does kinda feel like Christmas, doesn't it?

Paul

Yeah, it is definitely Christmas once is arrives :) Only problem is, it will come in like 5 different packages at "no one knows" when time...'cause it's from different ebay sellers. So, I could get all of it sitting there at my floor, and then would have to wait for that crappy power cable to arrive, to make everything work :)

Now, I'm doing some reading about alternators and kind of got scared...what if I'll need that high output alternator?? It is actually a 700 rms watts in total system...so I don't know, I just got my fingers crossed that everything will be fine with the stock alternator, as I just replaced it like a month ago. Oh...good thing I spent $450 (canadian) on those HID lights...they suppose to draw less amps right?