1 or 2 Subs

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=39531
Printed Date: May 08, 2024 at 3:48 AM

Topic: 1 or 2 Subs

Posted By: PhatGuy
Subject: 1 or 2 Subs
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 3:51 AM

Hi Guys,
I know this question was asked a lot, but here is the thing:

My current system (On a Corola '89):
1-Sony head unit (In Jordan you can only buy Sony because its the only brand that can be fixed if broken, my brother paid half of his monthly salary to get it, so it should be fixed if it broke down ;) )
2-CDX-656X 10-disc CD changer
3-Sony 222 amp
4-Sony Xplod rear speakers
5-Kenwood front speakers

I want to remove the rear speakers, install new Pioneer ones and get a sub. I was researching subs and I came upon this page:
https://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=51
It says: "Small subs (8", 10") have a tight and more controlled sound". Which is better, having 1 12" sub or 2 10" ones (Comparing the same brand)?

I want to first install a single 10" sub and add the second later (I might not if I find the sound good enough for me). I wanted to use the sealed box they mentioned. Which is better for this configuration (Pioneer or Kenwood)? Where should the subwoofer be facing (Upwards, towards the seats, ...)?

I know I have to get a new amp so I want to ask how to adjust it. I saw someone adjusing his amp at a shop. The sound was simply annoying. Should I put extra crossovers? Is it good if the Bass part of the regular speakers moved (In my humble opinion, I think not, but please correct me if I'm wrong 'cause I don't know a lot about this subject)?

Thanx a lot

Replies:

Posted By: boxmaker85
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 7:58 AM

First thing Phatguy. Get rid of those sony's. Kenwood's a good brand, but they've (just like everyone elso though) have had some problems w/ their hu and amps. Pioneer is a nice brand, in my opinion, better then Kenwood. Second thing name a price range for your system. I (and anyeone else here) can give you a $300 system or a $10000 system. It's all up to you. Out of the two subs definately go for the Pioneer. They have some good stuff. Also look into JBL. To answer the question of control for a sub think of it this way: which is easier to move? a 100 lb guy or a 150 lb guy? Obviously the 100 lb guy is and so is a 10" sub. But then I've herd some 12" subs that sound better than a 10". Two 10" subs will normally sound "louder" than a single 12" but once again that can change. I would go w/ one ten and possibly upgrade from there. I'm a fan of JL, Kicker, and Infinity. The latter is probably your cheapest, and the first two being some higher-end speakers/amps. With a corolla probably set the sub in back (the trunk) and aim it toward your license plate. Trunks are normally sealed and soundwaves have a tendency to just bounce around. When you face it toward the front of the car you let the subs reflect off the back seat and then to the back of the car where they then reflect off of the back of the trunk and go toward the front. This is why some systems set up like that sound louder when the trunk is open. As far as box type, you want control so go with a sealed. I'm not sure what you mean with the amps but as far as crossover most mono sub amps have a lowpass crossover built into it. As for your normal speakers use your hu to keep the heavy bass of of them. Let the sub do the job. Look into an amp that has a remote input that allows you to turn up the bass when you want it to boom.

Posted By: PhatGuy
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 9:25 AM

Thanx a lot man, but I face a huge problem. The brand selection here is limited. And with customs prices are VERY high. A JBL bazooka costs something around 650$ (Un-amplified).

I can't get rid of the head unit and the changer, the only dealer good enough to fix your HUs and things like that here in Jordan is Sony, so I have to stick with them. I'll change the speakers first and install Pioneer.

The Pioneer (Couldn't find a link for the 10" version though) and Kenwood 10" or 12" subs are within my budget.

As for amplifiers the only thing I can get it Buschmann 900 or 1300 Watt, but most probably I'll stick with the 900W one since its a little cheaper. Can it handle the subs? I want to power each sub on 2 channels of the amp (its a 4 channel amp) and connect the speakers to the 222 amp (Since I already have it) or connect the speakers and the sub to the new amp (If I don't get the second sub).

Will that work, please recommend one of the 2 brands (Or using 1 12" or 2 10" sub(s)), and if possible please tell me the dimentions of the box I need to use to get the best sound.

Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 1:20 PM

if the shop you deal with in jordan, doesnt have any Class D amps (mono 1ch), then inquire about having one ordered for you, if thats not an option i guess you'll have to deal with the 4channel amp.
class D amp will be alot easier on your car and are handle power alot more efficently than a 4 Channel amp will, bridging 2 sets of channels should give you 450x2rms (correct me if im wrong), unless the 900watts is 'peak' watts then your amp could only be 200x2 bridged (cant be sure till we know what the Buschmann actually pushes).
i've heard people being able to overpower subwoofers and still have them run fine, i just do not know if the pioneer line you linked to would handle an excess of 100+watts, but if i had the choice between the 2 brands, i would go with pioneer, less powerful from what i read, but the kenwoods never mentioned RMS or Peak so im still unsure about those as well ;/. and as for configuration, i would go with 2 10" pioneers and have each on one bridged channel,
i cant help you with the box size though (hell i dont think i've helped you at all ;/)

Posted By: heavilymedicate
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 5:53 PM

For better specs on the Kenwoods: https://www.cardomain.com/item/KENW25092PAK

https://www.cardomain.com/item/KENW30092PAK

Im going to take your word for it and go on the premise that you cannot get your hands on anything else but what you have listed. That said, here is my opinion. You need to post RMS power ratings for the amps you listed. RMS into 4 channels and rms bridged.

If you can go with 2 12's then i would in this case rather then 2 10's. The power handling is not an issue, 12's rarely handle a meaningful amount of power over 10's of the same model line. In this case the 10" kenwoods handle 350 and the 12's 400. If it comes down to the 10's I say either or, but i would choose the pioneer for reputation and brand alone (neither is substantially better then the other).

The enclosure will partially dictate how much power the sub can take. Sealed boxes tend to take more power to reach the same SPL as a ported. If you port you must do it properly. Whatever speaker you choose should come with several enclosure designs. Pick one of those, the actual shape of the enclosure do not mater, so long as the proper airspace is contained within. So, design the enclosure to fit your car with the help of the calculators on this site. Subtract the port and subwoofer displacement from your airspace number. Build said enclosure. Add subwoofers. Pour out some liquor for the dead homies. Your in business.

Ya know I don’t bag on most of Sony's products as hard as others. Now the Sony Xplode stuff is never my first choice, but its usable and better then a dozen brands that shall remain nameless.

The speaker should move if your talking about the woofer part of a full range speaker. The size of the speaker and the power applied will determine your crossover spot. For example a typical 6.5" full range speaker, power to its rms rating (not over) will typically like the crossover set around 80-100hz with a 12db slope. You want the cone to move as much as possible to get texture and depth to sounds like the male human voice. But if your cone is popping from bass, you should probably turn the crossover up, or check the power you are putting to the speaker. If you have a variable crossover then you can turn off the sub and mess around with the crossover to hear the difference it makes on your music.

Thats enough for now, send pictures of your pimped out corolla.

Posted By: boxmaker85
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 9:44 PM

You're not just limmited by that shop of yours. Look around on the net. Ebay, crutchfield.com, and sounddomain.com are great places also. Check out someother places but be careful and check on them. Most places that are WAY below most places aren't authorized retailers and the company doesn't warranty them. Oh and yeah the sony hu aren't bad. My girlfriend has one and it's rather kick @$$. Yeah keep that hu for now. Bout that box size... it depends on the sub that you'll be getting and what you want to do. heavilymedicate's right bout the ported thing. Ports make a system sound sweet (and loud).

Posted By: PhatGuy
Date Posted: September 23, 2004 at 2:55 AM

Thanx guys for all those replys, they were really helpful.

First of all, for those of you who don't know where Jordan is, it's in the Middle East, south of Syria and west of Iraq (I know most of you know those 2 countries :D)

When I first started looking for amps to use for a sub I looked for D class ones. They are almost double the price and the only brand I found was Sony. Most of the people I know recommended Buschmann and it is the most popular brand here. I couldn't find any specs for that particular amp but I'll keep looking and I'll post it here.

I don't know if someone here can make a ported box properly. So I'll stay on the safe side and go with sealed.

I can't buy anything online because of the hidden costs; shipping, customs, and other stuff. The shop I buy from gives me good discounts so its cheaper than most shops around. I found other brands for the subwoofer but they are sony and other cheap nameless ones.

I saw the effect of having a 12" sub in a lot of cars and I didn't like it, maybe because the guys who configured it were total morons or maybe its because of the subs themself. I'm going to stick with the 10" pioneer and I'll keep looking for other amps and tell you about them.

Hope to hear more comments
thanks

Posted By: boxmaker85
Date Posted: September 23, 2004 at 10:53 AM

Well my forign friend I hope that everything goes well. Class D amps are great and would recomend one. Look around some more and hopefully you'll get a good one. 12" subs can be great speakers, but just like any other speaker, they must be hooked up right. I would go w/ one 10" and later down the road if you decide that more bass is needed then you can easily add another 10". Good luck again and let's see some pic's when it gets installed.

Posted By: PhatGuy
Date Posted: September 25, 2004 at 11:47 AM

Hey guys,
I went down town looking for amps there (Where prices are usually the lowest in Amman (Capital of Jordan)) and came upon very interesting things.

I found the Buschmann 800W amp for the same price I got the 900W one :D. I checked the amp and 900W is the max output level. I found the 1400W model which is about 100$ more expensive. I'll ask the shop I deal with to get me a better price, I also asked a cousin of mine to look for me in another city.

Will the 900W model be enough for both subs or do I have to get a more powerfull one? And what happens if I put the sub in a biger box than the specs say??