Shivas
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=43901
Printed Date: May 12, 2024 at 11:21 AM
Topic: Shivas
Posted By: Klapping
Subject: Shivas
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 1:32 PM
what amp would be nice for 2 12" shivas? under 200 bucks...
Replies:
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 2:44 PM
? ... I have a US Acoustic usb600d amp right now... is it enough for 2 shivas? if not, what should i buy?
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 2:55 PM
I wouldn't use it for two shivas...Personally..and it seems like i've reccomended this amp a thousand times in the past week...id go with the JBL 600.1 off www.sounddomain.com ..they're refurbished but its a steal on them...i think they're like $150-160 plus shipping..great amp ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 2:59 PM
but u see... that puts out 600w rms @ 2ohms... the Acoustic puts out exactly the same... ?
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 4:17 PM
and one more question... what box specs are recommended for the shivas? cant seem to find it on the adireaudio.com site... ?
Posted By: uthinkuknoaudio
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 4:48 PM
Send a PM to Steven Kephart (That is his sn) and ask him the following questions. He is the expert on it. By the way, JBL power is far better than US Acoustics. I've always been a JBL fan as they are great for the money, and they live up to their statistics ALWAYS. You really don't know what power ratings you need, so don't forget to ask that! My Brahma's are 1600 RMS and i'm only running 800 into them and they blast !!! ... That is also because i havea five foot cubic box for them ported to 32 hz...
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"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 4:48 PM
The US Acoustic will be just fine. Don't buy an upgrade until you've tried out what you currently have.
You can always plug the t/s parameters into a program to design the box. But this sheet has some recommendations:
Sales Sheet------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 5:16 PM
so here... i will just order 2 shivas... and put them in with my amp... if it bumps well, i will keep it as is... if it doesnt... well, the JBL 600.1 should do the trick... Correct?
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 5:28 PM
yes, thats fair..try your amp out first..if you're not happy with it then get a jbl..something i always suggest to is if you get a JBL and you have a ported box...purchase a pair of RCA splitters and an F-Mod because the BP series amps lack a SSF.
-------------
Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 5:44 PM
Your current USAc. amp is more than sufficient to run those Shivas. You'll hear very little difference between that USAc and the JBL. Even if the USAc is overrated by 20 watts, who cares? 20watts won't be audible. The JBL will be slightly cleaner, but then again, I doubt you'd hear an audible difference. If your current amp works I think it would be a bit of a waste to replace it with a very similar amp.
Instead put your effort into the box construction. Box planning and construction will have a MUCH larger role in determining the quality of your bass than the difference between those two amplifiers. Use some of the money you saved by not buying a new amp to double up on MDF on the front baffle and brace the box.
I'll echo audiobass, be sure to implement a subsonic filter if you go ported.
-------------
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 5:51 PM
there is no local places that make boxes... can u just give me sum dimentions? so i can make the box i already have smaller...? also saves me money...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:08 PM
would a shiva produce more bass coming from a us acoustic usb600d amp? than a Power Acoustik Fubr-12 ?
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:17 PM
it all depends on the install..ive heard a couple of 15" Fubrs in a sealed box and it flexed the roof on a blazer..they're pretty loud subs..but as far as sq and dependiblilty go I would consider them garbage. Just my opinion..
-------------
Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:18 PM
well, out of the question i asked... which would produce more bass with 300w rms each sub... ?
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:23 PM
I couldn't give you an answer and be possibly sure..but the Shivas can perform really well with minimal power.. ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:35 PM
because well... i have 2 sony xplods... in my car right now... 10" ... i went to best buy... and bought 2 fubr-12's ... 140 dollars each... in plans to test, and return... which i did... and well, they didnt sound any nicer than my xplods... not at all... i was kinda shocked... ?
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:40 PM
That suprises me too..i'm not so sure what your problem is..I dont think it's the amp, but it could be? Although I wouldnt expect much more from PA than I would from Sony. The FUBR 15's were loud however. ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 6:43 PM
well the 12's didnt impress me much... that is why i am wondering... about the shivas... i dont wanna waste my money on sumthing that isnt going to impress me... what would produce a lot more bass? ... 2 subs and an amp for under 500$
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 7:23 PM
You could go with 2 Adire Tempests..$150 each..they wang and sound very good..Then you could go with Refurb Directed 1100d off www.ikesound.com ..It should be around $239 shipped. That would put you slightly over $500 but it would be well worth it IMO. You need a lot of room for the tempests..that would be the only downfall I could think of when purchasing those subs.. ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 7:35 PM
Like I said, much of how a subwoofer sounds will depend on the box it is in. That tech page I posted has different box volumes on it. Use that to find your dimensions.
https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/SealedShivaApplications.PDF
https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/VentedShivaApplications.PDF
These two files contain plans for a bunch of different Shiva applications.
The problem isn't your amplifier. 300w is a lot of power. You do know that doubling your power, moving to 600watts would only gain you 3db, right? 3db isn't a lot to our ears. 3db will matter to an SPL meter used in competition, but for everyday driving doubling power isn't really that big of a gain unless you need more headroom (are clipping your amplifier).
"which would produce more bass with 300w rms each sub... ?"
That question is impossible to answer without knowing about the box. I suggest reading the pages at:
https://www.diysubwoofers.org/
Once you understand some of what is going on use the Ported.xls spreadsheet file to do some comparisons of different subwoofers and box parameters.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that making a subwoofer perform like it should is WAY more complex than just dropping it in some generic box. Thus, comparing 2 subwoofers generically is also way more complex than just asking, 'which one is louder.'
Having said all that, if you don't want to do some research, the Shiva is regarded as one of the best subwoofers for the money. I doubt you'd be disappointed.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 7:50 PM
I stand by my original opinion here. I doubt making a small jump in amplifier power, even 200w, will do much of anything for him. The max SPL between a 600w and 800w amplifier is barely audible. Probably ~2 db-ish. A new amplifier should be low on your priority list.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:00 PM
so then here... another possibility... What 2 subs could i buy to go along with my usb600d amp... after you mention those, we will talk about the proper box for them... if i dont buy an amp... i will have 500 for 2 subs and a box... =D
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:22 PM
and is there any custom box building places online that you can order a special box from? ... or is there a pre-made box that would work for the subs, that sumone, will recommend?
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:33 PM
.............uhhh, just to let some of the good guys here know........as I told you yesterday in your previous identical thread, the USB600D will yield no more than 260 watts.....that's total. Again, I direct your attention to the ONE 20-amp fuse.............. And, again, that amp is recommended for powering ONE subwoofer.
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:36 PM
well, sh*t... who do i listen to? ... a lot are saying the amp is good... and you, are saying opposite... ... ...
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:39 PM
I'm using the same amp, I told you that. Do the math, though. If the amp will pass no more than 20 amperes, and the car voltage is 14.4 at it's best, and the amp has a 90% efficiency............then 20 X 14.4 X 90% = 260 watts maximum. I like the amp and think it's good value, but math doesn't lie.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:43 PM
hmm.. That must have been in another thread. Listen to Stevdart. I have no experience with the amp and was simply speaking generically regarding power.
Looks like it is time for a new amp. Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't aware that the USAc amp was that overrated. (sorry!)
That said, what I did say regarding the box construction still stands. It is at least as important as the amplifier selection, imo.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:46 PM
so sh*t... how am i going to buy 2 subs, an amp, and a custom box? ... with 500 bucks...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:00 PM
Build your own box. Buy that JBL, looks like a good amp. Those Shivas are a good price. Should be around $500 for the whole thing.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:13 PM
how big should the shiva box be? ... like dimension wise... not liters and cubic feet... like what would the length... hight... and depth be?
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:17 PM
Klapping, there are some things you have to do yourself. Look to the left of this page for many, many help tools.
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:23 PM
i have no idea on how to convert things... what would be the length, hight, and depth of a box to shiva's dimensions?
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:30 PM
I told you, that depends on how you want the box to sound. Seriously, look at the subwoofer building link and Shiva information links I posted you.
There isn't such a thing as one perfect box for any given subwoofer. YOU need to take a look at the difference between different box sizes and see what YOU think will make you happy.
READ those links I took the time to post you.
If I'm taking the time to post the links and help you, at least try to help yourself by checking them out.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:45 PM
ok i already looked earlier... it doesnt give u the actual dimensions tho... i want like... you know... 13 inches high, 14 inches deep... etc... i cant do much with a buncha numbers i dont understand... here...
my box is...
Length - 22.5"
Hight - 12"
Depth - 13.5"
That is all without the port in the middle... as if i were to just seal the ports... now, can sumone help me by giving me dimensions to the shivas? actual dimensions... as in lengths of the sides, etc...
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:47 PM
well hopefully i can be of some help.
Klapping i know you want to attempt to get the 'best' from 500$. for me, i was a nimrod and money wasnt so much of a factor for me and now im paying out the ass for it financially. (at least i love listening to music in my car...)
First off;
the subs you have been talking about, the shivas, will preform well, that has been established by alotta people here already, but i ask you, do you need 2? are you getting 2 because of your wiring setup, or do you want 2 to because its going to be really loud(er), if you dont want to save some money, buy 1 sub, find out whether you need dvc 2ohm, dvc 4ohm, svc 2ohm/4ohm ect. if you want to run your subs with a certain resistance, we can help you there.
Your amplifier: 260watts is a bit of power in itself, and with that would run 1 sub better i believe, than 2subs. but if you think 260 is still insufficent, what will you do with your current amp, sell? if you do that i would read what audiobass said about some refurbd amps on for cheap, should give alot more bang for less buck. and if they are through sounddomain or ikesound you should not have to worry about fraudulencey or false claims. i've heard good stories from both sites.
and finally your box, which probably has you slamming your head on your desk right now with you saying "I KNOW ALREADY, PISS OFF!!", but it is important that you start doing this stuff yourself, its important because you will be listening to this, and if you make 1 box, and it doesnt sound good, you have to be the judge of whether its not hitting low enough, or if its too muffled... there are certain things that you can do to help soften either type of bass, polyfill to suggest more volume in the box, to give it more room when your bass isnt hitting low enough (that or more power i believe), or fill it with some solid material to shrink of the inside volume.
there is a program, winISD that can help you out here to determine what box volume you would be better off using. acquiring the T/S stats are a must, and from there you work out a volume for your box to find a certain Q, which will in turn explain (sort of) what type of bass you can expect to hear when its built. now im not giving you the WxHxD because i dont know, but i do know that if i give you 1 size, the volume you need may not fit the trunk because one sides too high or 2 sides even, i based my box off the amount of space i wanted to give my sub, which would a volume of over 1.4cuFT, for 1 sub, this took up 40-50% of my trunk space when its all said and done, and i dont even know when i put my box in, where i'll be mounting a 24"Wx11"Dx4"H. thats why you need to be the spec builder. each box is unique to the trunk it fits in because not all box's can fit into the same trunk. if you start learning T/S parameters, and winISD making a box will come in time.
you also have not purchased a sub yet, so you have ample time to learn, and figure out how much volume you want to contribute to your sub.
im sure i havent explained things well enough for a complete comprehension, and im sorry i wish i could let you know my understanding of things.
i hope this has been some, if any help to you, we can help you with the box's volume, even if you didnt want it before, but we need T/S stats, and help on your part to know what you want out of your sub(s).
and you were looking for an online box maker? i honestly think that is a waste of time, look in your phone book, or goto a local lumberyard and see if they know of any cabinet builders, or general carpenters. i sent my box dimensions, down to the last decimal to a cabinet maker around this area, and we're just waiting for my sub to arrive so we can fit it in and see what we need to do to accomidate the sub. usually they are good about a box, so paying the person a couple hours for labour with your own supplies comes out to something fairly decent. and there isnt anything wrong with supporting local businesses. as i said it would be a waste of time for an online box maker, and too expensive if your budget is only 500$, your looking at shipping charges out the ass for something that heavy, bulky and not to mention somewhat fragile (i'd hate to have a box be dropped through transit ;-( )
GL and i'll be watching this thread, having a shiva in a well designed box will pound the sh*t out of those xplods.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:04 AM
Klapping:
/r7 just gave you an excellent post. Please read it and follow his excellent advice.
Also, you keep missing the point. We can't tell you what dimensions to use because YOU need to pick how you want the box to sound! Different sized boxes will sound different!
Whatever you do don't just drop them into the box you currently have .. it will probably sound awful.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=/R7] well hopefully i can be of some help.
Klapping i know you want to attempt to get the 'best' from 500$. for me, i was a nimrod and money wasnt so much of a factor for me and now im paying out the ass for it financially. (at least i love listening to music in my car...)
First off;
the subs you have been talking about, the shivas, will preform well, that has been established by a lot of people here already, but i ask you, do you need 2? or are you getting 2 because of your wiring setup, or do you want 2 to because its going to be really loud(er), if you want to save some money, buy 1 sub, find out whether you need dvc 2ohm, dvc 4ohm, svc 2ohm/4ohm ect. if you want to run your subs with a certain resistance, we can help you there.
Your amplifier: 260watts is a bit of power in itself, would run 1 sub better, than 2subs, i believe. but if you think 260 is still insufficent, what will you do with your current amp, sell it? if you do that i would re-read what audiobass said about some refurb'd amps on for cheap, they should give alot more bang for less buck, and if they are through sounddomain or ikesound you should not have to worry about fraudulencey or false claims. i've heard good stories from both sites.
Finally your box, which probably has you slamming your head on your desk right now with you saying "I KNOW ALREADY, PISS OFF!!", but it is important that you start doing this stuff yourself, its important because you will be listening to this sub, and if you make 1 box, and it doesnt sound good, you have to be the judge of whether its not hitting low enough, or if its too muffled... there are certain things that you can do to help soften either type of bass. polyfill; to suggest more volume in the box than what is actually there, to give it more room when your bass isnt hitting low enough (that or more power i believe), or fill it with some solid material to shrink of the inside volume and lessen the muffled sound. these are options im going to be considering on my box, but i have to get my sub in there and see what it sounds like first.
there is a program, winISD that can help you out here to determine what box volume you would be better off using, based on your preference. acquiring the T/S stats are a must, and from there you work out a volume for your box to find a certain Q, which will in turn explain (sort of) what type of bass you can expect to hear when its built. now im not giving you the WxHxD because i dont know them, but i do know that if i give you 1 size, the volume you need may not fit the trunk because one side is too high or even 2 sides, i based my box off the amount of space i wanted to give my sub, which was a volume of over 1.4cuFT for 1 sub. This took up 40-50% of my trunk space and when its all said and done, and i dont even know where i'll be mounting a 24"Wx11"Dx4"H Amplifier. thats why you need to be the spec builder and understand your restrictions. each box is unique to the trunk it fits in because not all box's can fit into the same trunk. if you start learning T/S parameters and winISD, making a box from this program with these parameters will come in time, and with ease and you'll beable to whip up specs for any size or shape in a minute or less.
you also have not purchased a sub yet, so you have ample time to learn and figure out how much volume you want to contribute to your sub, and whether that will fit in your trunk and allow room for an amp.
im sure i havent explained things well enough for a complete comprehension, and im sorry i wish i could let you know how i understand things. most if not 95% of what i have learned thus far, even as vague as it is, has come from this board, it would be a VERY wise decision to read a lot on this board before starting a project like you are attempting. Shiva is a sub that can preform under the right conditions, and all your friends "WILL" be envious hearing it in a proper enclosure. and then you can say, yeh i did this, i just had someone do up the cuts and assembly of a box i designed. at least you knew what you were doing. i am a person that respects the people that go out to learn a thing or 2 about something like car audio instead of letting someone else decide what they should have.
i hope this has been some, if any help to you, we can help you with the box's volume, even if you didnt want to know its volume, its more imparitive than even the dimensions you think you need, but we need T/S parameters, and help on your part to know what you want out of your sub(s). and from there, you can go to your trunk do a few measurments and fit your box to those specific dimensions.
You were looking for an online box maker? i honestly think that is a waste of time. look in your phone book, or goto a local lumberyard and see if they know of any cabinet builders, or general carpenters. i sent my box dimensions (down to the last decimal) to a cabinet maker around this area. Now we're just waiting for my sub to arrive so we can fit it in and see what we need to do to accomidate the sub. This guy has been really good to me, and i can be assured the measurments are accurate, and the box is securely built. Guys like this, are usually good about building a box, so paying the person a couple hours for labour with your own materials comes out to a reasonably priced box with accurate dimensions. and, there isnt anything wrong with supporting local businesses. as i said it would be a waste of time for an online box maker, and too expensive if your budget is only 500$ (which i think you raised from 200$ intially, dont let the ability to increase your budget get the better of you, finacial stability is more important that a thump and bump from your trunk), your looking at shipping charges out the ass for a box as big as you'll need, myself, i can hardly carry a sheet of 3/4" MDF, and a box for 1 10" or even 12" is probably going to use more than half a sheet of that 3/4", something that heavy i can garuntee will throw your budget into there 700's if not 800$ range simply due to shipping, thats not including labour, materials. MDF is also somewhat fragile dropping a sheet on its side even after setting it down can chip a side, so imagine it falling in transit... 1 crack = diaster for a box's stiffness against the flex.
GL and i'll be watching this thread, having a shiva in a well designed box will pound the sh*t out of those xplods.
edit: had to revise such a long post, i have terrible grammar.
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:47 AM
Thankyou kfr. Klapping i may also add that kfr01 knows what hes talking about, hes proved it time and time again in posts littered across this board. go the extra mile and spend a lot of time figuring things out, and when its all said and done you should be a happy camper (until you need to go in for a hearing checkup)
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:48 AM
whoa what the **** i did not mean to hit QUOTE, i thought that was my edit button, but apperently i can only edit my last post?
fudge, sorry about all that extra BS. damn i goofed. :(*
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 2:35 PM
ok, i ordered the JBL refurbished amp... it was 171.50 with shipping and everything... i will order 2 shivas prolly tomarow or sumthing... if you think i should get a different sub, please post... before i buy...
Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 2:44 PM
I just ordered that amp myself, to run my 2 12" orions for now, but come spring time when I get some money Im planning on getting 2 shivas, and building a ported box. So let me know how everything sounds when you get it hooked up. What kind of car do you have?
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Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 2:58 PM
The trick to making that amp perform best is to buy a pair or RCA splitters and an F-mod since I assume you're going to put it in a ported box. The only downfall of the JBL is it lacks a SSF..the F-mod will fix that problem. ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 3:38 PM
Klapping wrote:
ok, i ordered the JBL refurbished amp... it was 171.50 with shipping and everything... i will order 2 shivas prolly tomarow or sumthing... if you think i should get a different sub, please post... before i buy...
The sub is great. Just be sure to put it in the right enclosure. The wrong enclosure will make any subwoofer sound like complete and total ass. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 3:41 PM
i am plugging the port on my slot ported box... it will be relatively close to the enclosure recommended on shivas site... like an inch or so off maybe... nothing big...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 3:43 PM
What are you plugging it with? ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 3:59 PM
a board across the front... a strip of plywood... and i am using this tape, its like foam tape... so it seals everything perfect... a few screws in, and bam... all good...
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 4:47 PM
OK, Klapping, after you get your Shivas and seal up your "box" with a piece of plywood and get your new amp and hook it all up and listen and think to yourself, "Man, this doesn't "hit" any harder than my Sonys!" then maybe you will finally listen to all of us who told you through two long threads to get a new enclosure built for your new woofers. Write back when you have it all installed and let us know how it goes. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:18 PM
dude... it's perfect size for the shivas... it has the dimensions on the second page of this thread... that sumone posted... and it is almost Exact to what my box is... all but 1/2 an inch on both sides... that is it...
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:43 PM
A key to being successful in car audio is being open minded and willing to listen...no offense, but you have been fairly stubborn throughout these 5 pages of threads..Use your box and tell us how it sounds after you install it like Dyohn said. I'm willing to bet it wont do to well..I've never thought plugging a ported box was a good idea. ------------- Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:47 PM
here... i did sum calculations... and sum measuring... =)
here is what i came up with...
THIS is from the Shiva site... A Recommendation...
QTY SIZE USE
2 13.5” x 13.5” Front and back panels
2 13.5” x 12” Top and bottom panels
2 12” x 12” Side panels
THIS is MY box specs...
2 15.75" x 12" front and back panels
2 13" x 15.75" top and bottom panels
2 13" x 12" side panels
ok, those were the specs... WITHOUT the 4 port walls in the middle... If i plugged the first port wall, inside the subwoofer chamber, then it would make these specs...
2 11.5" x 12" front and back panels
2 11.5" x 13" top and bottom panels
2 13" x 12" side panels
ok so now we are above and below the recommended box specifications... now, look at this...
these are the specs if i rip the first port wall off, in each chamber...
2 14" x 12" front and back panels
2 14" x 13" top and bottom panels
2 13" x 12" side panels
alright... and the recommended box specs are once again...
QTY SIZE USE
2 13.5” x 13.5” Front and back panels
2 13.5” x 12” Top and bottom panels
2 12” x 12” Side panels
now, you see... there is barely a difference in those two... a half inch here... and an inch there... i seriously dont think an inch will make 2 subs literally turn from excellent... to crap...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:49 PM
and, plugging a ported box... makes it a sealed box... how is that, not a good idea? ... explain...
Posted By: audiobass10
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:51 PM
Do what you want..tell us how they sound..if they sound good to you then fine. Again let us know after you install them.
-------------
Dave
Pioneer Premier DEH-P660
15" Kicker CVR
Profile AP1000M
It's Loud
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:54 PM
but i want to hear your guys' input on how an inch or so can make a sub sound like complete crap... as you guys are obviously making it sound out to be...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 5:58 PM
by the way... those specs i posted about my box were all divided in half... so ya, its a dual box... the full specs would be just, double the front/back panels and double the top/bottom panels... =)
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 6:50 PM
Size is a big issue with ported boxes.
The issue with both sealed and ported is bracing and no unexpected leaks. Basically any flex in the box will reduce bass energy and make its own resonance sound. Leaks and flex will make the bass will sound muddied and reduce the SPL. i.e. NOT "hit."
The reason we were talking about size is because an inch off one side WILL ALWAYS change how the box sounds. You should take the time to estimate how your sub will respond to the size box you have.
Anyway. IF you brace that generic box you have AND seal it like crazy it probably won't sound like crap.
We all sound skeptical because box "hacks" like this rarely sound great.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 7:00 PM
i am not doing anything to the box besides taking out 2 walls in the middle... of the 4... and Sealing it... it wont leak with the foam tape i use... its like caulking... and it works perfect... the box is built tough... there will be no leaks... and it there is a rare leak... sum caulking will do the trick...
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 9:24 PM
Hello Kapping. I don't think you are understanding the baffle wall cuts we are listing. We are telling you what size to cut the wood to form an enclosure. We aren't giving the outside dimentions of the finished enclosure. I calculated the enclosure size you will end up with from the dimensions you provided, and figured you will have a .87 cubic foot sealed enclosure which is too small for the Shiva to sound very good in. They really need about 1.2 cubic feet for a good sound. And I may have misunderstood you, but I thought I read that you were going to put both Shiva's in that small enclosure. That would be even worse. Shiva's are great high efficency subs, but need some room to sound best. If you are looking for a lot of output in a tiny enclosure, then I would recomend choosing a different sub. But be warned that you are going to need a lot more power to get that output in the tiny enclosure. You just can't beat Hoffman's Iron Law. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 9:38 PM
Klapping, sell your current box on ebay before you rip it up and then go buy a sheet of .75" mdf and some screws and make a new box. It will sound alot better than your current one like Stephen said, and you will have the satisfaction of making your own box. 
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 9:51 PM
my box is a half inch off the exact recommended enclosure size from adire audiop's website... i think u guys are a little wrong here... i think the people who made the subs, have a little bit more knowledge on what size box, for their OWN subs... and like i said...
Its my dimensions, Times 2...
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:00 PM
Klapping wrote:
my box is a half inch off the exact recommended enclosure size from adire audiop's website... i think u guys are a little wrong here... i think the people who made the subs, have a little bit more knowledge on what size box, for their OWN subs... and like i said...
Its my dimensions, Times 2...
Do you have a link to where you are getting this recomendation from? I work for Adire and know the subs very well. If your enclosure is .85 cubic feet, then it won't sound very good. What do you mean it's your diminsions, times 2? Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:04 PM
on the second page there is a post...
times 2... as in, its my dual box... not a box for a single sub... because i was going by a single sub on my earlier post...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:11 PM
so, times the dimensions earlier that i posted, by 2... and u got my box...
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:22 PM
You posted outside dimensions of your enclosure. What you are seeing on our site is how to cut the wood to make the enclosure, not the finished outside dimensions. This means that your enclosure is further off than you think, as I mentioned earlier. Also, you are looking at one of our high Q alignments (.95 Qtc.). Your enclosure will have an even higher Q as it is a little smaller. This enclosure will have less low frequency extention and more ringing due to the higher Q. Although you might be happy with it, you will get better results in a larger enclosure. I'd recomend going with a 1.2 cubic foot enclosure for best results. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:25 PM
it is inside dimensions, not outside...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:29 PM
and, if you are saying it is too small... if i just close th port on the outside... it would be a 34" box in length... a foot high... and 13 inches deep...
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:39 PM
because you havent listened to too much advice given to you other than the brand of sub. put it in your ported box. stick plywood on it, and do what you think is right, its been said before, its your ears that'll be listening to it.
if by chance it does sound good. then wonderful. but if you have a box volume of less than 1cuft per sub, your going to need a **** load more power to push those subs than you would if you built the box to an ideal volume.
you can hook your subs up, but if you come back unhappy please donot ask whats wrong, we gave you ample amounts of feedback for you to sift through and understand our own reasoning behind building a new box.
some advice that i hope you at least follow. Dont use plywood, no matter if its 3/4" or 11/16", flexxing will occur, and that will create even less SPL and SQ, at least go with 3/4" MDF, use your sealer and screws, and be done with worrying about if your plywood is or isnt doing the job. if it doesnt sound good after that, rethink your box, build it to a spec closer to what stephen even suggested. or get a lot bigger amp to push them if you want to spend even more money on such a easy fixxable task.
Klapping i feel you are taking the easiest route possible to sit and wait for subs that will take roughly a week to arrive, if not longer.
if your intentions are to just work around building a proper box, just to save time and 40$, then you should have just gone with some cheaper subs. because you really wont notice much of a different if the volume of your box will does not suite the subs.
but hopefully it does, because you've payed for everything, and hopefully with all that money spent you have given enough head-room to pay for shipping fees at your door when they arrive (if they are shipped like that, i had to pay 150$ for 1 amp, 50$ for a component set, and i dare not guess what my sub will cost ;/)
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:51 PM
on top of everything else talked about.
what guage of wire do you have going to yur amp now? if you were using sonys' before im going to guessing 8guage to the amp. which should work for the JBL amp, but if it were me, using that box (and if i had no choice to use that box) i may want to upgrade to 4guage wire because those subs probably will want every drop of power you can give them in an undersized enclosure.
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:12 PM
subs will be around 270 shipped... amp was 170 shipped... and, like i said the box is relatively close to what you guys are recommending...
and dude... the enclosure will be bigger... because i am sealing it from the outside... so the two middle walls, will be included...
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:21 PM
but dude..., how much bigger, give us your volume calculations, and prove us wrong.
you dont care about volume, but your subwoofers will and so will your amp too. and we're trying to help you and your subs out by telling you that if your box volume per sub is less than what was suggested by stephen (i think he said 1-1.2 cuft), your subs will have a harder time hitting low end frequencies.
you know what your doing to your box, give us the volume each sub will be sitting in. (dont forget driver displacement, and bracing displacement)
we're here to help, not confuse, anoy, and contradict you. we think your going about this the wrong way because its not an ideal setup. you dont care because its close in inches. but its the volume that we're trying to establish.
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:30 PM
think about it... if my box fits near the exact size of every board on the adire site... that is recommended... then it is near the volume...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:34 PM
ok here... these are the dimensions...
not the volume, you guys can figure that out... i dont know how... but here...
it is... 16" x 12" x 13.25"
16" is the length... from left to right... etc...
12" is the height...
13.25" is the depth...
what would th volume be of that?
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:38 PM
and that is for 1/2 of my box... so, in other words... for one sub... and that is the inside... not including the thickness of the wood... etc...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:42 PM
i put my numbers into a calculator thing for volume online... came up with... 1.4722222222222223 cubic feet...
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:47 PM
[quote]They really need about 1.2 cubic feet for a good sound[/quote]
so if your calculations are right you can fill more of the box up to achieve 1.2ctft. but you can do that after testing what it sounds like with 1.4cuft.
hopefully everything works out for you, because it seems very sketchy going about using the same box, but GL doing so :-)
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:59 PM
how deos it seem sketchy? ... i made a smaller box, if u include the port... bigger by knocking out the port... same thing as making a new box, just preserving money, and a big waste of time when you can get the same thing out of it... without building it all over again... i could also plug the bottom of the 2 walls left in the middle to make it like... an inch and a half shorter on each end... which makes it like... 1.3342013888888888 ... and that is really close to his suggestion... which wouldnt make too much a difference...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 1:36 AM
ok i sealed it... and left it at 1.4722222222222223 cubic feet... ... ... i havent ordered the subs yet... just the JBL amp... any more suggestions on a different sub will still be taken into concideration... something that will bump more than 2 12" shivas... i will order the subs tomarow prolly... thnx for all the help... if it doesnt sound right... a new box, will be the way to go... i dont mean to sound ignorant like i am not listening... i am listening... i just dont want to waste the money when i car rig my own to make it work... if it doesnt... then i will go for the money... i am a kid... i dont have a job... so money, is a HUGE object for me... so, ya... any more help will be appreciated... i love how much help you guys give out... keep it up... it helps people like me from doing the wrong thing and being dissapointed... =) thnx...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 5:48 PM
... anyone?
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 6:33 PM
I actually have sumwere around 300 dollars for 2 subs... is there anything i can get that bumps more than the shivas?
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 6:48 PM
Louder? Sure. As loud and quality sound for the price... I doubt it. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 6:57 PM
well, something that will give out more bass...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:07 PM
So, let me get this right .. do you JUST want loud bass? ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:09 PM
who doesnt? ... the louder, the more you are heard... the better... i want it to be heard outside the car...
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:11 PM
bass tha bumps... and is loud...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:21 PM
lol .. I, for one, don't want anybody outside my car to hear my bass. I could care less about SPL. Anyway, now knowing that you want that kind of performance I seriously doubt that sealed is right for you. Did you read those links I sent you about output being higher with ported boxes? ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:39 PM
i dont know how to port boxes... and i just ruined my other box by unporting it... because that is what i was told to do... well, told to go sealed...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 7:53 PM
No one told you to seal your box. You picked sealed because it was close to your enclosure size and you were too lazy to understand the difference between sealed and ported. All we told you to do was READ THE FREAKING LINKS we sent you before making the decision yourself. Then we said IF you wanted to go sealed that it had better be a GOOD seal. Sigh .. Go back and actually read https://www.diysubwoofers.org/ LOOK at the graphs and the difference in output. COMPARE the graphs pages 8 on both Shiva application documents I posted for you. If you are looking for ONLY the best BASS OUTPUT given your amplifier power, PORTED is probably the best for you. *sigh again* dude, I understand you're young, but you really need to learn to read materials, search for answers and ask questions about things you don't understand, and truly make an effort to understand -- before making your own decision. Trust me, if you can learn that simple lesson it will serve you well. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:01 PM
here... i have no idea what all that stuff means... but like... is there a box on the net that you or sumone could find that is ported good for 2 shivas... so it can get tha max bump? ... if i look, or try, i wont end up with anything correct... because i have no idea about any of this sh*t...
Posted By: astro88
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:12 PM
Take youre subs to the closest boxmaker in youre area give them the specs and pay the man........Not trying to be rude but it sounds as though that would be the best bet for you,
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:19 PM
you SEE i dont have the money... 150 bucks for a g*d da*n cube of wood... is rediculous... and i have no idea who makes, boxes, aroun me... i can just buy one online that is relatively close... i need help finding one though...
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Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:43 PM
Klapping wrote:
here... i have no idea what all that stuff means... but like... is there a box on the net that you or sumone could find that is ported good for 2 shivas... so it can get tha max bump? ... if i look, or try, i wont end up with anything correct... because i have no idea about any of this sh*t...
You aren't supposed to know what it means when you start learning. Read all the pages you can at https://www.bcae1.com/ Ask us questions about what you don't understand! ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 9:08 PM
What a laugh! I am just about finished with two enclosures now while this klapping kid is sitting around arguing with everybody and yanking chains. I don't know what compels me to come back to this rediculous thread.........talk about train wrecks!
Posted By: Klapping
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 9:42 PM
i am yet to argue with anyone. just asking for help. and what i mean by i dont understand... i dont understand all the conversions, all the spl, stuff... i dont know what any of that means... just please, mention a place with a box that is good for my shivas...
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 9:51 PM
We're trying to give you help. Check out this: https://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/S-mnqx6w4yXM9/car/ It has VERY basic learning information about car audio. If you don't want to learn you've seriously come to the wrong place. Check out crutchfield.com or cardomain.com. They both sell generic boxes. Don't build your own if you aren't willing to learn. I'm done with this thread. Start another if you decide to stop wasting everyone's time. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 10:08 PM
Ok if you can't build a box or just plain dont want to buy this box: https://www.cardomain.com/item/QLCQLH12512DE It isn't that hard to understand the basics of matching reccomended box size of the subwoofer with the box with the same or very close to the same (unless you build your own of course , which is usually just totally out of the question   ). Porting isn't that hard either if you use a good calculator and know what frequency would be resonable to use (this site has a port and box size calculator on the left side column). But come on throw us a freakin bone,lol. This thread is 10 pages long and you still havn't seemed to have taken much of the info we have thrown out. Go to some of the websites that were reccomended to you and read the good posts by stevdart, kfr01, and /r7.
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 11:20 PM
OK Klapping, your seriously pulling on nerves with your absolute laziness and inco-operative behavior
If you read a full paragraph from any post i've made in this thread. i told you, specifically that having a box sent to you online will cost you more than it would to build it yourself. it would ALSO cost you A LOT less to have a box-maker, cabinet maker, general Carpenter, to build you a box. if you cant find any of those in the yellow pages, then learn. if you cant learn, find a friend that has a father and pay him in beer(wait you cant), pay him with the money you'd send your imaginary internet box maker.
sending a box through because of its weight (remember, with ported box's you will need an exceptionally bigger box [in volume alone] than you would with a sealed enclosure for the same sub. your dealing with ported box, whichs means the 'measurements' are bigger, which means more weight to each piece of wood (and its not plywood) ) will cost you near the amount of one shiva.
[quote]150 bucks for a god damn cube of wood... is rediculous... and i have no idea who makes, boxes, aroun me... i can just buy one online that is relatively close... i need help finding one though...[/quote]
but there is a site on the internet that is run by a volunteer servent for the united states, he makes box's for people, and sends them free of charge, and the only thing is he asks that you beable to grow mdf-trees out of thing air as payment.
we have offered numerous posts telling you NOT to patch your current box. by all means a common sense reason aside from reasons we gave, would have been, its a back up box incase you ever need your sonys while something is in on repair. i dont know the extent of your damage to the box right now. and by now im not concerned or willing to help you with anymore input.
you did not even go far enough as to RESEARCH what would be a better idea. not likely, you continually told us that you dont understand. which is fair. but you never even attempted to learn. if you want to be an ass on the street goto your local low-end retailer and look for some pyramid 15" subs, and run them off your current amp in a proper ported box, you cant talk to the guy on the internet i told you about, just make sure you got that tree handy.
you got the suggestion for a shiva sub which is a great sub for the price, and offers a good balance of SQ/SPL, and you went ahead to save a buck or 2 and patch your current box up thinking it would be your best bet with those subs. but in almost any case, ported subs will provide a louder sound. why do you think your sony's were in a ported box, they need all the help they can get. i cant remember if anyone suggested you to go with a SEALED Box or not, in this thread, and frankly there are too many pages, with useful content for me to actually sift through and re-read, but if we did, we did so unknownly you wanted pure SPL and very little (if any) SQ.
you wanted a good suggestion for your subs? a sealed box would be good, for an overall SQ/SPL performance. a box, again roughly 1.2cuft (or w/e stephen suggested a 'few' pages back)
now 9pages into this thread you tell us that you dont care about SQ and just want people to hear you, well thats fine, but you didnt need shivas, and you didnt need a sealed box as you found out.
BTW, because the shiva is a different sub, your current ported box would not have been a good idea either way, your probably going to get a better sound/SPL out of your box the way it is now, than you would if you left it ported.
if you have had any problems with terms, or acronyms, used in this thread there is a link on the left of this site called the glossary, glossarys usually contain words, terms, or abreviations which are relevant to the book or website
if you cant find it click:
https://www.the12volt.com/glossary/glossary.asp
the page is even setup so if you need to find a word, by the first letter of the word, you can click on the letter at the top, and it will show all the words beginning with that letter. thats also called alphabetically alphabetized.
hopefully some of 'this' information has been helpful as it would seem you never read any of my posts that contained more than 2sentences.
Posted By: mobile E
Date Posted: November 30, 2004 at 1:47 AM
Sad, need i say more anyone? ------------- everything stolen :(
Workin on a new system :)
Peace in the middle east
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: November 30, 2004 at 2:05 AM
Hmmmmm, this thread has been going so long now, I dont knwo if I ever posted on it or not. But I read the comment of 150 bucks for a cube of wood is rediculous. Since it seems you are unwilling to do any ground work nessasary to learn this stuff, and you obviously dont have the any experience at this, than I think you paying someone 150 dollars to build you a box is actually a good deal. Esspecially when you take into acount hom much difference the box can make in your system. I am only 23 right now, and believe it or not I was once 17, and had very little money, but still wanted to be involved in this world. I wish I had a forum like this to resort to with people who are as knowledgable as these guys are. I made my own mistakes and learned from them. I cant stress enough how much a box can make or brake a system. You my good sir, seem to not actually desire to learn how to do this, you just want to USE the people on here to try to save yourself 20 or 30 bucks here and there. I got news for you, if I get the vibe from someone that they will never give back and misuse the knowledge I do provide for them, then I am not gonna waste my time trying to explain this to you. And I think you need to stop wasting the time of the guys on here who car and want to help people that genuinly want it. This thing is as dead as the cat on the road down the street and Im done.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: November 30, 2004 at 11:36 AM
Wow, someone needs to end this freakin post. Klapping is obvioulsy not taking the advice from the people on here that know what they are talking about. Im young, im only 17, but I know to LISTEN to people that know more about a topic than I do, espeically when they take time out of their lives to help me (over 10 pages none the less). If you dont want to build a box, just a buy a prefab one and END IT!! Im planning on trying my hand at box making over the winter. You should give it a shot to, its no big deal if you screw up because wood is certinly not $150 a piece. Just take the adcvice of people on here, they know what they are talking about and helped me many times. Six months a go I didnt know jack about car audio, but now I know enough, from experience and from this site, to do installs myself and to give people advice. These people have been very nice and very patient with you so either listen to them, and do some reading on the mulititude of links provided, or stop posting!! And for the love of god, dont seal your ported box with plywood and caulking, that will not work.
That is all.
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Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: November 30, 2004 at 1:17 PM
It's closed. ------------- Support the12volt.com
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