400W RMS - 2 10’S OR 1 12
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=44239
Printed Date: May 08, 2024 at 4:17 AM
Topic: 400W RMS - 2 10’S OR 1 12
Posted By: OCURIEL
Subject: 400W RMS - 2 10’S OR 1 12
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 6:39 PM
Hello to all. I have 2 10 inch infinity's vq single 4 ohm coil subs rated @ 400 rms each & a soundstream van gogh amp with a sub channel that will push 400 rms @ 2 ohms. I'm thinking about fiberglassing a sub enclosure on the right rear quarter panel of my acura mdx. My question is should I keep both 10's or should i get a infinity 12 vq dual 4 ohm voice coil sub & power it 400 rms? both the 10's & 12's are rated @ 400 rms each. Thanks in advance. In case anyone needs to know, I prefer sound quality with good spl.
Replies:
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 7:28 PM
i would say keep your 10's, or if you want more SQ than SPL (and arent worried about how many watts you push) even 1 sub with 200watts from that vangogh would sound nice, imo anyways.
1 12" will only give you a louder sound, and maybe with the trade off of SQ, i dont know, cant be the judge there. but if i had the 2 tens, and looking for SQ. i'd stick with them, or even use one and as i said, go with a 4ohm load.
thats just my opinion though.
ask yourself if you want a tighter response, and/or over all increase in SQ.
or do you think its not loud enough, and need some extra juice.
best to be honest with yourself too, go out with that in mind, and go blast your stereo and see what you think.
hth. gl, and show us them FB pics if you can ;-)
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 8:49 PM
/R7]
>1 12" will only give you a louder sound, and maybe with the trade off of SQ, i dont know, cant be the judge there. but if i had the 2 tens, and looking for SQ. i'd stick with them, or even use one and as i said, go with a 4ohm load.
eek. I don't think I'd agree with that generalization. I think the overall impact on SQ would probably be impossible to generalize here. It will depend greatly on application. However, many people believe a single woofer is actualler BETTER for SQ. /r7, what do you mean by SQ in this case? The larger woofer generally has lower frequency extension than a smaller woofer. "louder sound" will depend on the efficiency of the driver given the same amount of power. Many times larger woofers are slightly more efficient than smaller woofers. Using 2 woofers instead of one gives you a 3db rise in SPL. The T/S parameters and applications of these subs would need to be evaluated, best by a program like WinISD to make a determination on SPL between these woofers. While I don't agree with /r7's analysis, I agree with his basic conclusion = I wouldn't change from the 2 10's if you already have them. That said, check out the differences in WinISD yourself and make a decision. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 9:06 PM
ok sorry for being unclear. lets see if i can clear it up.
i guess in your quote, i did come off being too general saying 1 12" is just going to make it louder. that was far fetched. i would however stick with one sub, beit 1 12 or 1 10". i dont think though that the 1 12" hes looking at will give him a better sound quality, with 400watts, at 2ohms. from what i've learned, and this is why i came to this conclusion.
- going to a 2ohm load reduces the sound quality (i dont know if its audiable or not between 2-4, im still inexperianced there)
- i dont know the technical term im trying to think of here, but with a 10", what i normally hear is, 10's will offer a tighter bass, vs a 12 ectect. i figured a 10" would provide more SQ, in that respect vs the 1 12.
-
kfr01] wrote:
sing 2 woofers instead of one gives you a 3db rise in SPL.
while i knew this, i figured 3db was not going to be too much of a factor if he was looking for more SQ, hence my option to goto a 4ohm load and run it at 200watts.
if im wrong, please correct me, so i dont offer bad advice again :-), but hopefully i got across that, i dont think switching to a single 12" would be justified, if the subs were identical models.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 9:26 PM
You're right .. a 2ohm load will increase distortion slighlty. Who know what kind of effect it would have, something to consider A 10" and 12" will give similarly "tight" bass. It is a common misunderstanding that woofer size causes worse transient response. It is rather inductance. See Woofer Speed, Adire Audio, at: https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/WooferSpeed.pdf The box Q also effects transient response. If he can fit the single 12" into a lower Q box, he might make up for any lost transient response while also gaining more low frequency extension. 3 db is not much, you're right. I don't think you gave bad advice, I just think he needs to more closely evaluate what he'll really lose / gain by switching drivers. :-) ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: poeticdrums
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 9:53 PM
Okay to get back to Ocuriel's question. Yes you should keep the two 10's. They will not be able to produce some of the lower frequencies that the 12 will, but the 10's will handle some of the higher notes better. Two 10' will probably be louder than that single 12', unless you get a very very customized enclosure. And if you are fiberglassing an enclosure, be careful with the reccomended box volume that infinity gives you. I have two 12" infinity reference subs and they are very picky with their encolusre size. Don't know how much this post helps, but at least it brings the thread back to the topic -Drums are the way -------------
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:00 PM
Whoa buddy .. how were we not on topic? We were talking about all the details Ocuriel should take into consideration. Everything we said related to 1 12" or 2 10"s. I was thinking he would actually want to know WHY and HOW to make the decision himself. In many ways that is MORE on topic than your post. Back off.
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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:05 PM
kfr01] wrote:
don't think you gave bad advice, I just think he needs to more closely evaluate what he'll really lose / gain by switching drivers. :-)
maybe so, but knowing the technical side of my reasoning, will help him to understand why.
poeticdrums wrote:
but the 10's will handle some of the higher notes better
if i had read that yesterday i probably would have agreed, but in another thread, kfr and i posted in reguarding crossover settings, if he crosses over his subs around 100hz, i dont know what difference the 10" will have over a 12" in that area. i dont think it would be all that noticeable though. but as i've been wrong many times before, you could very much be right. my thought is, if the subs are identical models, and only the size is different, each sub should at least beable to handle 100hz equally if not a fair bit more than that.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:09 PM
poeticdrums wrote:
Two 10' will probably be louder than that single 12', unless you get a very very customized enclosure.
Also. This is just wrong. The 12" vq is 89db efficient. The 10" vq is 87db efficient. The single db gained from having 2 10"vq woofers in barely audible. This single db is "VERY VERY" easy to overcome with box design. sh*t, you could overcome this 1db with the right off the shelf box. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: OCURIEL
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:17 PM
Thanks for the fast replies. What i'll probably do is stick with both 10's & make a fiberglass enclosure for both. would it make a difference if the enclosure has only 1 chamber for both subs? due to the design of the rear quarter panel, it would be hard to get both chamber volumes to match. building the enclosure with only 1 chamber would make thinks allot easier, but is this a good idea?
thanks again
Posted By: /R7
Date Posted: December 01, 2004 at 10:23 PM
1 chamber should be fine. take into consideration if 1 sub ever goes, that you should not continue using that enclosure at all. or else you will end up with 2 dead subs.
my preference would be 2 seperate enclosures, but you said it would be hard to match the chambers, so dont worry too much
Posted By: chris_h
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 9:11 AM
hightek, consider checking out this thread, regarding two subs in the same chamber. From what I gather, its okay to do this as long as you're running the subs bridged from the same amp, because they'll receive generally the same signal and not put pressure on eachother. Running them from separate channels may damage them because one could fire when the other is not. Also, having a divider adds bracing to the enclosure. Anyway, have a look and ultimately the decision is yours, especially given the impracticality of making two chambers like you said. ------------- When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands
Posted By: chris_h
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 9:13 AM
haha woops, linked the wrong one... if I could just find it...
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When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands
Posted By: chris_h
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 9:24 AM
here it is . i meant to address that to ocuriel, not hightek. some mornings.... ------------- When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands
Posted By: OCURIEL
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 9:49 AM
Thanks chris_h. i would agree that it is ok running 2 similar subs in 1 chamber when running of the same channel. i do prefer seperate chambers, but like i said before, due to shape of quarter panel, will be hard to have both seperate chambers match. either way i have the whole winter to think about what to do. too cold to be messing around with fiberglass. thanks for everybody's help.
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