Print Page | Close Window

Trouble from ground distribution block

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=45092
Printed Date: May 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM


Topic: Trouble from ground distribution block

Posted By: bigboi11
Subject: Trouble from ground distribution block
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 6:24 AM

I have alot of engine noise coming from my speakers.  I accidentaly orderd a fused distribution block for my ground  and I have been using that could that be the cause of my trouble.



Replies:

Posted By: spootydlux4
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 6:34 AM
possibly, did you run your power wires close to your rca's.? how long is your ground?

-------------
blah blah blah blah




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 6:46 AM
my ground is only about 12-15 inches long




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 7:07 AM
do you have alot of engine noise from subs? from internal speakers? both?    are thier amps on both internals and subs?    

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 7:55 AM
I just have alot of engine noise from the internal speakers the subs sound great.  There is a sound from the subs when i trun my head lights on and off but just for that split secound and thats it.  The internals are noisy constantly




Posted By: spootydlux4
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 5:55 PM

what about your power wire? are you running 2 different wires or one with a distro block to the 2 amps? and how close are your power wires from your rcas?



-------------
blah blah blah blah




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 8:08 PM
I am running four gauge to the dist box and 8 out and I ran the power on the opposite side of the car




Posted By: ravenndude
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 11:49 PM
I jsut read this from https://www.bcae1.com/ thought it might apply:

"When making any connections in your audio system, remove all power from the system. One reason (there are others) is that the shield of the RCA connectors is connected to chassis ground in at least one audio component (almost always grounded in the head unit). If, at any time, the shield is allowed to come in contact with any power source, the component with the grounded shield connection will be instantly (INSTANTLY) INSTANTLY damaged (Oh, did I say instantly damaged?). This is one of the most common causes of loud engine noise and it is VERY common."




Posted By: dragonrage
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 1:40 PM
Try a capacitor. It need not be something huge meant to help with power problems. Even a few mF should help somewhat. Just make sure the voltage rating is at least 16V, preferrably 20+.

-------------
2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage
HU: ?
Speakers: ?
Amps: ?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 3:42 PM
The fused distro block has nothing to do with this. List the equipment and the vehicle year,make, model. What you have is more than likely a difference in ground potentials. Any chance that you have a Pioneer head unit?

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 9:34 PM
I have a pioneer HU, a kx1200.1 mon amp, a raggedy legacy 300amp, 2 kicker L7's, and a kicker kx3 crossover. The car is a 92 Pontiac Bonneville.




Posted By: dragonrage
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 6:25 AM

Good call, forbidden

Another thing to try is taking a portable CD/MD/MP3 player and hooking it up to the amp and seeing if you still get noise. You probably won't, and if you don't, then I agree with forbidden. But even without that test, he's probably right.



-------------
2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage
HU: ?
Speakers: ?
Amps: ?




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 6:37 AM
Well what is a difference in ground potential and what do I do to fix it.




Posted By: dragonrage
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 7:53 AM

Here are some suggestions to help with grounding problems.

-Make sure you picked a good ground point for the amp, obviously.
-Make sure you scraped any paint off at your ground point for the amp
-Do the "big 3" wires under the hood (I use 0 gauge for it)
-Thicker ground for the HU
-Chassis ground the RCA at the amp side. Some RCAs have small wires coming out to do this.

If you're still getting ground problems, you can always run an actual wire for ground instead of using the chassis, but you really shouldn't need to do this.

There's a ton of info about ground problems on this forum. Look around.



-------------
2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage
HU: ?
Speakers: ?
Amps: ?




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 8:11 AM
I have never heard of grounding the rca's how do you do that.




Posted By: dragonrage
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 8:45 AM

The easiest way would probably be getting a set of RCAs that have an extra wire on the end for ground.

But first things first. You did run the RCAs on the opposite side of the power cable, right?



-------------
2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage
HU: ?
Speakers: ?
Amps: ?




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 10:23 AM
yhea i did that




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 1:14 PM

When one piece of electronics has a bad ground it goes looking for a new one, usually down the shield of the rca cable where it grounds to another piece of electronics and looks for a good ground there. This is where the ground loop and difference in groud potentials comes into play. This is sometimes do to how the equipment is installed and quite often the type of equipment that is used. What makes an item inexpensive for example, how's about inadequate circuit design. This manifests itself as noise in a system and sometimes it is all about the vehicle that the equipment is mounted in. Why I aksed about a Pioneer is simple, they have a piss poor circuit design and are breeding ground for noise. Pioneer builds these cd players knowing full well that they are designed for the masses and not the few. The masses use them with no outboard amplifers thus noise is never an issue, the few use amplifiers and when coupled with other items of say questionable quality, a noise problem can develop in the blink of an eye.

1) what are the amps grounded to?

2) what was done to the ground wire under the hood?

3) can you ground the cd player to the amps?

4) do you have a meter or are you installing using "the force"?



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 6:55 PM
I have the amp grounded to the actual frame of the car.  I had it hooked to the inside of the trunk but i thought that that was still the problem so i moved it.  I'm not sure what ground under the hood you are talking about bu i used 4 gauge from the frame to the batter and from the frame to the alternator.I can't ground the cd player to the amps.  I do have a dmm but I am using the force.  How do I use the Meter to help me.




Posted By: dragonrage
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 10:38 PM

forbidden... using "the force" is the only way to install! :D

I like that.



-------------
2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage
HU: ?
Speakers: ?
Amps: ?




Posted By: flynntech
Date Posted: December 19, 2004 at 4:38 PM

I have to stick up for Pioneer here. I've never heard of them having problems with noise although anything is possible. 

I have installed several systems with Pioneer HUs and never encountered a single problem of any kind.





Posted By: djdaveoc
Date Posted: February 04, 2005 at 3:38 AM

I think forbidden is right.  I read about this in the beginner MECP book.

Points where ground can run into a "loop" situation include:

1.  The low-level leads going from the output of a head unit to the input of a crossover or amp.  (Nothing will allow noise to radiate into a system faster than inferior cable with poor shielding.  Always use high quality cables.)

2.  An amplifier or any other component mounted directly to the metal of the vehicle.  (Never mount components to bare metal.  Always try to use an amp rack and insulate the other components from the chasis of the vehicle.)

3.  Grounding several components to chassis ground through their ground lines.  (Some preamp units get their B- connection directly from the interconnect cable - connecting the black wire to ground in this case causes an automatic ground loop.  Ground your preamp components to one point - usually the back of the radio - if their power supply ground is separate from signal ground.

4.  The antenna input.  (The use of antenna ground-breakers that are available on the market today is not a recommended practice, unless there is a severe grounding problem with a particular vehicle.  This ground is essential to the reception of AM.)

Although there are ground-loop adapters available on the market, they are really a "band-aid" approach for a system that should have been wired correctly in the first place.

The simplest way to avoid accessory noise problems is to never share a ground connection with the vehicle's accessory ground path, such as a fan motor or brake light ground.  It is highly likely that a pop or a buzz will be heard in the system whenever the fan is turned on or the brakes are applied.



-------------
posted_image Plan, Research, Do




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 04, 2005 at 2:16 PM
Sorry guys, I have been a little swamped here at the shop lately, how is this problem making out? My bet lies with the Pioneer cd player. After selling and installing them for the better part of 18 years, I generally have a pretty good nose to sniff out a rotten fish. Not that Pioneer is bad, it is far from it but in most cases it is the source of the dreaded noise. This is due to how the unit is designed and there is nothing that you can do about it. (except purchase a nice new Eclipse cd player.) Anyways, post the results and I'll try to look back in on things.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bullman96
Date Posted: February 04, 2005 at 4:00 PM
i have a pioneer "premier" peh-9660. ooh lah lah, 6.5volt preouts. anyways, my mids and highs have sounded off at higher volumes when i know i could push them further, but am satisfied with moderate volumes. i have made my wiring as clean as possible, big 3's, everything including deck ground directly to the batt and have fixed most of the problem but it still sounds a bit off. is there anything else i can do about it? would unplugging the antenna help? the only stock wire besides the antenna i have to the deck is the acc.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 04, 2005 at 4:20 PM
Your mids and highs are sounding "off" at higher volumes because the preamp in the cd player is clipping. Pioneer does not use non-clipping preouts in these cd players. If youa re using any amount of bass / treble or built in eq this lowers the point of clipping even sooner.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bullman96
Date Posted: February 04, 2005 at 5:31 PM
i have the deck at 2/5 volume when i set the gains. only eqing done is down, never up as its not meant to do that. whats a non-clipping preout anyways. who makes them?

-------------
Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub





Print Page | Close Window