best SQ sub for application
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=45814
Printed Date: July 14, 2025 at 6:47 AM
Topic: best SQ sub for application
Posted By: Xclusivex
Subject: best SQ sub for application
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:02 PM
I dont want to make another post with "whats the best SQ sub" as im trying to be a bit more specific, im trying to find a great SQ sub roughly under $300 that will sound phenominal in a 1 foot cubic box or smaller. from what ive been reading a 10in brahma might do the trick, along with JL audio w6v2 or possibly Eclipse Alum (although ive heard the eclipse need 1.25cf to really shine), and last but not least IDQ 12. I would also prefer a decent amount of SPL nothing heart stoping but something that will definitly hit when i want it too (ive heard the jl 12w6v2 and 2 of them is as loud as i want). Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you
Replies:
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:15 PM
All the subs you listed will have excellent sound quality.
I'd pursuade you to model out your estimated SPL level and frequency response curves at the power level you plan on running it in AND in the box size you hope to use.
Then you can throw all those woofers on the screen at once and compare. A modeling program won't list distortion levels, but you'll learn a lot from seeing the different subs at the same power level in different applications (enclosures). Check out WinISD pro. Most of those drivers are already loaded in the program.
For instance, you might quickly learn that you need quite a bit more power to move a 10" brahma to the same SPL level as a w6v2 or an IDQ.
Anyway, I can really only speak from hearing the JL and the IDQ in person. I think for small box applications the IDQ kicks the snot out of the JL. In a larger box, things even out some, but the IDQ really was designed for small boxes.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:27 PM
yea ive heard from many people for SQ the subs I named were the way to go, im not trying to ask which is the best SQ of the ones, as im sure i would be pleased with any.. what im trying to figure out is the best application for my car. i would be putting a clean 1000-1500 watts to the subs depending on which pair i end up getting (btw im looking for 2 subs) and probably running a line driver with the amp to boost the pre-out signal. so far it seems like IDQ would give me the most sub for the box size (looking at around .8 or .9 cu feet) but how loud do they get? Im not looking to crack my window but something that will definitly get some attention
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:29 PM
I guess what im really curious about is how well the Eclipse and brahma do in a small box. if a single Brahma 12 in a 1cu ft box with 1000 watts would get me the same results as like 2 12in IDQ it would be my obvious choice
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:33 PM
If you want to throw that much power, don't go with the IDQ.
How loud do you want to get? 1000-1500w is frankly a stupid amount of power for subs unless you're competing or a closet bass-head.
Did you try modeling it out like I suggested? It will tell you exactly what you're asking about SPL for a given application.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:38 PM
as for spl i cant just throw out a number and say i want to hit 150db for example, ive never been to a competition and can't really comprehend how loud to the ear a certain DB is. and if i just say i want it to be "loud" thats just way to general for you to get an idea. I guess my best example is to say.. i have 2 infinity kappa perfects right now and looking to upgrade, so whatever i get i want to be comparable in SQ just packing more punch, thats really the best i can do (and im currently putting 1200w RMS to the subs)
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:49 PM
I downloaded that program you suggested, it doesnt have the brahma listed or the eclipse alum sub (atleast not the model number listed on the web page)... + its like foreign language to me
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 10:52 PM
The Brahma is there. Under Adire Audio Brahma.
You'll have to enter the Eclipse yourself.
As for the foreign language stuff - time to start learning if you really want to know how to plan the best system.
You do realize that you're causing permanent hearing damage, right?
Anyway. Check out https://www.bcae1.com/ if you want to start understanding more.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 11:21 PM
lol, then what do you suggest for power if 1200 makes you go def
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 11:24 PM
Well, it depends on the sub, the box, and the car. I suggest you read those pages and learn to use that program. It will help you understand a lot about audio, subwoofers, enclosures, power, and their applications.
In a sealed box with 1200w rms a peice you're hitting 120+ db BEFORE cabin gain. With cabin gain, depending on the vehicle, you're probably pushing 135db+. In less than 10 minutes of listening at that volume you're causing permanent hearing damage.
You may think I'm being stupid and old... You may even say that it doesn't effect your low frequency hearing much. You're right. It starts to affect your high frequency hearing. If you listen at 120db frequently you'll soon lose your ability to hear high frequency sounds clearly. Girls at the bar don't appeciate it when you can't hear their s, t, sh, or other high frequency sounds. Worse yet, if you're ever at a professional conference with background noise and can't understand the important contact you're talking to, you're in trouble.
Anyway, it may seem "sweet" to blast 2400w now, but you might seriously regret it in a few years.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 11:34 PM
you said you've heard the IDQ's, as far as the SQ goes i listen to alot of rap music (not strictly, but alot) can the ID's hit the low deep bass that alot of songs have? also what kind of setup did you listen to, im just trying to get an idea on what to expect
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 11:48 PM
This is where understanding that program would REALLY help you. You'd be able to see and compare the graphs of the low bass extension for these subs.
The IDQ is not particularly deep. I run a 10" it in a .55ft^3 box with 200w. Since you have that much power, I'd probably go with the Brahmas or the Eclipse. 1200w would be complete overkill with the IDQs.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: December 22, 2004 at 11:59 PM
I just wanted to point out that the Brahma does have an SQ advantage due to it's XBL^2 motor, however they retail for over $300. So it sounds like it is outside of your budget. Our offering for a sub under $300 with the SQ of the Brahma would be the Koda 10. It just won't get as loud as the Brahma. I also wanted to mention that the Brahma is a very tiny box driver. I run mine in a .36 cubic foot enclosure, and it was tested in Mobile Entertainment to have a flat response all the way down to 10 Hz in a .2 cubic foot enclosure in the reviewers vehicle. Good luck on your choice. All 3 subs are great subs and I doubt you will be disappointed either way you go. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 12:03 AM
I will chime in. I am running 2 eclipse aluminum subs. running approx 400rms each. Running them in a vented enclousre, I am currently in the low 140 db area on the term lab mic. I will say this much. They want more power then the 400 I am giving them. I really want to build a dual mode box. that I can open and close the vents. I will highly recommend them!
But on the other hand, I did run one single w6v2 for along time..I ran it with roughly 1600RMS via (2) 800a2 fosgate amps I had modded the amp so they were able to be daisy chained, not a good idea with these amps. Any ways. In a ported box at 1.63cu ft for one sub. vented at 32hz..I was able to get 148db on the audiocontrol Mic that will yeild about low 140's on the Term Lab mic.
So..........I would say per experience with those 2 drivers That with that much power, I would probably go back to the 1 JL...unless I could come up with the amps I really want to put 1600rms to each eclispe I have now.
------------- 2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 12:15 AM
Steven is right. Especially since you're probably pushing the driver near xmax, the Brahma's XBL motor would probably be great for you to improve SQ.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 7:39 AM
Yea im aware that the brahma is a bit more expensive, but (this is the exception for the brahma) i was planning on running a dual sub application however the brahma has the reputation of being quite loud in a single sub setup so if i end up paying lets say.. $350 or 400 for 1 brahma 12 but still achieve the same output as say 2 IDq's i will in a sense be actually spending right around the same amount of money. steve what size sub are you running in the .36 box? also could you maybe give a comparasion to what the power output of the 1 sub would be equal two? and would 750w RMS be enough to power 1 brahma 12 to the fullest? thanks
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 10:43 AM
Seriously learn the WinISD package. You could answer all these questions quickly yourself.
It just took me 2 seconds to throw 1 Brahma 12 in a .5ft^3 box up on WinISD and compare it to 2 IDQ 12s w/ 1.4ft^3 box. The Qtc of both applications is around .94-.93 to be fair.
Within the same amount of power, within the IDQ's power handling / excursion range, the 2 IDQs will ALWAYS be louder than the single Brahma by about 3-6db. ALWAYS. This is because you have double the cone area AND a more efficient subwoofer.
HOWEVER, 750 is starting to push the IDQ's pretty hard and pretty close to the xmax. The Brahma still has PLENTY of xmax and power handling room to go. The Brahma will be cleaner when pushed because of the XBL technology. It is a game of trade offs. The single Brahma CAN get JUST AS LOUD as the 2 IDQs. Their maximum SPL is VERY SIMILAR. However, you have a nice tiny! box for the Brahma and it will stay cleaner.
I'd personally go with the Brahma if you run it like a madman w/ the watts and want it to stay clean. :-)
It would make no sense to me to go with the IDQ's in this application. Buy the Brahma.
You really should learn that program. You'd be able to see all this on screen in seconds.
------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 2:47 PM
So from what im understanding in these posts is a small enclosure will yeild more SQ but a larger enclosure would be better for more SPL? what size would be considered something inbetween? also with the amp i have im running the 2 infinitys at 1200w RMS at 2ohm.. at 4ohm the amp is 600w RMS (a considerable amount less power), but the amp has a fairly high distortion level. Thats why im not set on a certain amount of power for my setup YET. I would like to decide on the sub then find an appropriate amp to push it for my needs. just letting you know so you dont base your recommendations on the 1200w. but i think i will take the advice and get the brahma since I know they have alot of capabilities I guess if after the install i feel like i need more power i could always make a new enclosure and/or find a more powerful amp
Posted By: uthinkuknoaudio
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 6:04 PM
(honk honk) I'd either go with a Brahma or the IDMAX by Image Dynamics. They both rock and will not dissapoint. Its all about money down to this point, so choose which one. Both sound great in small boxes. I own 2 brahmas and i love them, and i've heard IDQ's and i think they are great too. Let us know what you decide...
------------- "I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 12:36 PM
Xclusivex wrote:
So from what im understanding in these posts is a small enclosure will yeild more SQ but a larger enclosure would be better for more SPL? what size would be considered something inbetween?
Totally wrong. I'm really not sure how you understood this from the above posts. Both the IDQ and the Brahma were designed to work well in small boxes. Maximum SQ is usually obtained by running a LARGER box (within reason) to obtain a lower Qtc. Again. Learn that program. You'd be able to SEE what different sized boxes DO to the SPL and overall frequency response curve. The moral of this story is that box size will totally depend on the characteristics of the subwoofer. What will work well for one sub may sound like ass with another. You NEED to understand those enclosure design programs OR just let your installer do everything for you. So we don't have any other misunderstandings, what you should learn from the above posts is this: 1) The Brahma and the IDQ both work well in small boxes 2) The Brahma handles much more power than the IDQ 3) The IDQ is more efficient than the Brahma 4) The Brahma will stay cleaner closer to xmax because of the XBL technology 5) There are never free lunches. Because the Brahma is less efficient, you'd need to push the Brahma with 1500+ watts to acheive the same SPL as 2 IDQs. You'll REALLY need to push that sub to its limits to match the output of two IDQs. Xclusivex wrote:
also with the amp i have im running the 2 infinitys at 1200w RMS at 2ohm.. at 4ohm the amp is 600w RMS (a considerable amount less power)
This is also fairly wrong. By itself 600w is a lot of power. However, moving from 600w to 1200w doesn't do you much good. The maximum SPL difference between 1200w and 600w is 3db. 3db is small. Why don't more people understand this? In the process of moving down to 2ohms you increase distortion, perhaps a lot depending on whether your amp was a budget buy, which I suspect it was. So, congratulations, you squeezed a measly 3db more out of your system in exchange for more distortion. Xclusivex wrote:
but the amp has a fairly high distortion level. Thats why im not set on a certain amount of power for my setup YET. I would like to decide on the sub then find an appropriate amp to push it for my needs. just letting you know so you dont base your recommendations on the 1200w. but i think i will take the advice and get the brahma since I know they have alot of capabilities I guess if after the install i feel like i need more power i could always make a new enclosure and/or find a more powerful amp)
I think this is wrong too. Don't just buy the sub. Decide whether you can afford the power to drive a Brahma with a proper amplifier so you won't be disappointed. And don't even think about using some stock box for the Brahma. You should design and build a box perfect for the Brahma from day 1. Anyway. Let me know if you have any questions. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: Xclusivex
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 2:04 PM
The subs i have are rated at 400w RMS and EVERYONE i have talked to said it was always better to put more power to a sub than to underpower it (hence the reason im running 1200W RMS) and the amp im using is a JBL 1200.1, My reasoning for buying the sub with a sub $300 price tag is so i can spend more money on a decent amplifier (so its not wrong) I just dont see a sense in spending $700 per JL w7 and then $800 for the amp when I know i can get a comparable (if not better) sub for sub $300 and then spend the money I saved into other areas where its needed (upgraded altenator, line driver, etc).. I have every intention on spending atleast $500 and no more than $800 on a decent amp to push whatever setup I choose, right now im considering a Zapco (I believe its 750w RMS at 4oh bridged with .02 THD (from what i remember)) which is more than enough to push either 1 brahma or two IDQ. my boxes are always custom built, usually to manufacteres specifications, Adire says .7 to 1.5 cubic feet for a sealed brahma 12 (.7 would be perfect for what im looking for)
Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: December 25, 2004 at 12:40 PM
Xclusivex wrote:
The subs i have are rated at 400w RMS and EVERYONE i have talked to said it was always better to put more power to a sub than to underpower it (hence the reason im running 1200W RMS) and the amp im using is a JBL 1200.1,
EVERYONE has no clue most of the time. 1200 to a 400 watt sub is a complete waste of money. Xclusivex wrote:
My reasoning for buying the sub with a sub $300 price tag is so i can spend more money on a decent amplifier (so its not wrong) I just dont see a sense in spending $700 per JL w7 and then $800 for the amp when I know i can get a comparable (if not better) sub for sub $300 and then spend the money I saved into other areas where its needed (upgraded altenator, line driver, etc).. I have every intention on spending atleast $500 and no more than $800 on a decent amp to push whatever setup I choose, right now im considering a Zapco (I believe its 750w RMS at 4oh bridged with .02 THD (from what i remember)) which is more than enough to push either 1 brahma or two IDQ. my boxes are always custom built, usually to manufacteres specifications, Adire says .7 to 1.5 cubic feet for a sealed brahma 12 (.7 would be perfect for what im looking for)
You totally missed my point. Sure 750w rms is more than enough to push 1 Brahma or 2 IDQs. I was trying to help you decide which one will be better for you with that amount of power. That is what you were asking, right? One Brahma with 750 might actually be quieter than your current setup. You seemed concerned with SPL. Is this what you want? You may think I'm being a pain in the ass, but I'm trying to help you make a smart buying decision and realize what to expect. ------------- New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: December 26, 2004 at 9:43 AM
LISTEN to kfr01!! Excellent advice in these posts. ------------- Support the12volt.com
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