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Need help with passive crossover.

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=47653
Printed Date: May 02, 2024 at 3:30 AM


Topic: Need help with passive crossover.

Posted By: zipdog
Subject: Need help with passive crossover.
Date Posted: January 13, 2005 at 6:49 PM

Here is my situation. I want to run 2 sets of speakers off of 2 channels of an amp. They will be a set of seperates and a pair of midbass. Using caps and coils seperating at 250. My problem/question is that the midbass are 3ohm (audiobahn - didn't know but that's what I got), will I drop below 2 ohms or because of the caps/coils at 250 will that keep it at 3.5 ohms? Sorry if this doesn't make much sense but I am posting in the hyperlink area and it is really hard to re-read. Thanks in advance.



Replies:

Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: January 13, 2005 at 9:20 PM

First, I will presume you are looking for a short-term solution while you save up for another 2-channel amp...and when you get it you will power your speakers at a 4 ohm impedance load on the amps.  Your sound will suffer in the mid and high frequencies when you run the amp at 2 ohms.

That said, use the nominal impedance of the speakers as your guide to building a crossover, not a measured resistance.  They are most likely spec'd at 4 ohms.  Check that out with the manufacturers.  Your crossover values have to be selected for 4 ohm;  the coil for lowpass for the mid, and the cap for highpass for the components.  https://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/cross.asp#lp

You are paralleling the speakers so that you can use a single set of channels, so the amp will get a 2 ohm load to work with, but the speakers themselves will always remain 4 ohm.  The crossover does not affect the impedance of a speaker (nor will it affect the load on the amp)....but the impedance of a speaker will affect the frequency that the cap/coil will crossover at.  So just use 4 ohm as your guide.





Posted By: zipdog
Date Posted: January 13, 2005 at 9:50 PM
Thanks Stevdart. Just to clarify the midbass are supposedly 3ohm so get coils based on that, right? Any tips on how to properly post? I can only post in the hyperlink.">Thanks Stevdart. Just to clarify the midbass are supposedly 3ohm so get coils based on that, right?       Any tips on how to properly post? I can only post in the hyperlink.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: January 13, 2005 at 10:24 PM

Yes, if that is what the nominal impedance is.  But you have a problem with paralleling 3 ohm and 4 ohm....you end up with lower than 2 ohm (about 1.7 ohms)....which will (or might) overload the amp, causing shutdown.  If you do this, use mids that are at least 4 ohm.

For posting, uhhh....  I haven't seen that problem before.  Generally, you just type into the Post Reply box.  But I use IE and I don't know what browser you have or why you have a hyperlink area.  If you have Notepad or another plain text editor you could try typing your message, then copy and paste into the Reply box.





Posted By: zipdog
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 6:31 AM
Thanks again. I'll try copy and paste.Here is another scenario, and I just want to make sure I am understanding/interpreting correctly.I am running 2 sets of speakers from 2 channels of an amp. When using the caps/coils to seperate the mids and midbass @ 250hz the amp will see a 4ohm load.I got that from the Acoustic output and power section.I just ended up with 3ohm speakers for the midbassmy fault - I am trying to keep costs down.So is it feasable that my amp will see a 3.5ohm vs a 1.75ohm?*didn't work had to use hyperlink again. Thanks again. I'll try copy and paste.Here is another scenario, and I just want to make sure I am understanding/interpreting correctly.I am running 2 sets of speakers from 2 channels of an amp. When using the caps/coils to seperate the mids and midbass @ 250hz the amp will see a 4ohm load.(I got that from the Acoustic output and power section).I just ended up with 3ohm speakers for the midbass(my fault - I am trying to keep costs down).So is it feasable that my amp will see a 3.5ohm vs a 1.75ohm?*didn't work had to use hyperlink again




Posted By: phuzun
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 8:21 AM
I think the problem will be that the midbass is 3 ohm not 4 ohm and throw off the crossover point.  If these are going to be homemade, just use a calculator, and figure it out using the proper impedence. 




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 10:07 AM

As I see what you are doing, you are using caps to block low freqs from reaching the components, and coils to block high freqs from reaching the midbass drivers.  Those caps and coils, used as frequency blockers, won't work the same way as they would when a signal passes through a crossover before it goes to a speaker.  By paralleling the speakers, (and to do that you would have to connect mids and highs separately to the amp), you don't have the benefit of a crossover maintaining the speakers' impedance.

Now, in the case of your components, they have a crossover before the speakers, so each individual tweeter and woofer will maintain their 4 ohm impedance, and you end up with a total 4 ohm load for the component set.

Below is how I picture your setup to look like for one of the channels:  paralleling done at the amp and caps and coils used as blockers to the speakers.

posted_image

You couldn't build a crossover before the speakers, because you would be blocking the highs from reaching the components.  So you end up using frequency blockers, which will not separate frequencies and let the amp maintain the higher impedance.  The two speakers will have their impedances halved at the amp by paralleling, and you will be putting a 1.7 ohm load on the amp.

But I'm not sure about this.  It would be worth putting together and measuring the impedance at the amp.  Let me know what you get.  And somebody who knows better please feel free to set me straight if I don't have this right.





Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 10:42 AM
The more I think about it, you should be alright with impedance.  The amp should get the frequency separation.  Should be a 3 ohm impedance to the mids and a 4 ohm to the components, meaning that the mids will get a slightly larger portion of the power.




Posted By: zipdog
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 10:52 AM

You hit it on the head, stevdart. I guess I didn't explain myself properly. From my limited knowledge interpretion of what I read in the Acoustic Power and Output section the blockers would/could be acting as a crossover because of the frequency seperation without overlap(I hope). I am assuming that the coils would be using the 3ohm factor. I got 1.9099 and caps @  4ohm got 1.59. I am also planning on using the amps hi-pass crossover @ 100hz. I am running a sub.

I will set it up and check the impedence hopefully this week.

BTW - I can post now using IE, thanks.





Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 14, 2005 at 11:10 AM
What you're doing will work just fine.  You are building a 1st order (6db/octave) crossover.  THIS page might help you out.

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