comparing 12" and 15" subs

as the titel says i'm comparings some brands, now i know everyone has their favorites, some love eclipse, some love brahma, some like jl audio, i'm not partial to any brand as so far the only sub i've listened to is a 10" rockford fosgate single voice coil sub,   Now the brands i'm most interested in are memphis, alpine, diamond audio, and possibly eclipse or jl audio, i'm trying to keep my install on a budget, and keep the subs rms to around 500 watts max as anything past this point starts getting really expensive really quick, i'd much rather run one amp and 2 subs for my bass.  i'm really curious about the memphis subs, i've heard alot of good things and some negatives, i'm also interested in their amps as i'll probably run memphis amps no matter what subs i run so anyone with some info about those would be great to.

J~

kfr01] wrote:

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hat is your sound goal for this? What kind of music do you listen to? Do you plan to compete in SPL? Do you show off to people? Do you like sound quality? How much space do you have? Also need to know budget and whether you can build your own box.  

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my goal is to build a good all around system, the music i listen to is metal/industrial, older stuff like ccr, the doors, 80s like motley crue, ozzy, and rap, odd combo i would imagine, i dont expect anything to perform 100% with all of that but clean subs should have alot better chance, i would like to have decent spl numbers, i'd thought about building a system to compete in spl but my budget would limit that, sound quality is higher up my list but as long as its not horrible i'm good to go, if i had to choose i'd probably take sq over spl, but i'd like a nice blend of both, as far as showing off i just listen to my music loud, if everyone else can hear it thats fine, if not no skin off me lol, i have a chevy cavalier coupe and i have the whole trunk to play with.  and yes i can build my own box, i'm actually putting the finishing touches on  a fiberglass box for my 10. and my budget since i'm building as i go i'm trying to set a limit of 500 for subs and amps but give or take a hundred isnt so bad, i'll give up another paycheck if it adds enough quality.

as far as my 10, its decent but it doesnt have any good bass response, the bass only hits down really low, as an example lil johns get low from need for speed underground, the only time my sub has any sense of pound to it is on the short little bass bump, or like 50 cents in da club, the lowest notes played have some power behind them, the rest of the bass line is lost on my sub as it refuses to hit with authority on any real sounding bass, the amp i have should be pushing about 100 watts and its a 200 watt rms sub, my amp is the first upgrade maybe it'll get alittle better. but i would still rather have 2 or 3 12s in the trunk.

i'm kind of leaning towards making my car into a car i can take to the local shows and get some respect for, as i do all my own install,customizing, and repair work my labor costs arent to bad lol

ok, next problem, where do i get these subs at? i have to dealers down here, one sells diamond, kicker and concept, the other sells audiobahn.....so most of my purchasing is gonna be online, also can you recommend a good brand of amp to run with that setup? or is memphis a pretty good choice to push that combo? and is that a 5ft enclosure for each sub or combined total?  cause 5 foot for each sub might be a very very tight fit in a cavalier, would it be a better idea to face these subs into the cabin and build the box in the trunk, or to face them at the trunk lid?

J~

thanks alot for all the info, and the quick responses.

J~

ok after doin some figuring and more thinking about my realistic goals for this system the adires sound like good subs but how do they do in overall spl? also i've been reading posts from people with their gas tank between the trunk and the inside or the car, whats the deal with that? does the tank negativly effect sq in cars? as my cavaliers tank is directly under the back seat, also are kicker L7s as good for spl as they claim or has kickers quality gone downhill in the recent years?

J~

Glowinlow22 wrote:

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ok after doin some figuring and more thinking about my realistic goals for this system the adires sound like good subs but how do they do in overall spl? J~

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One of our dealers has been very successful on the competition circuit with them.  He used to pull over 150 dB consistant with a single Tempest.  He now runs 4 Tempests with only 1000 watts and pullso 150 dB at the head rest (reality).  I think they do great for SPL. 

Also, the new Tempests will have a higher power handling than the old ones and a little more throw.  So performance will actually increase.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Hey Steven, when is the new line due out

Personal opinion here, but if I wanted to listen to my music and I was just getting started in this industy, I would choose a good pair of 12's in the proper box. 15" subs move lots of air (hence louder ) and reach way down low with more amplitude than a brother 12" would, the tradeoff though is that most 12's will produce a much more lively type of output for you to listen to on a daily basis. A 12 can play just as deep as a 15" can, especially if the box type is the same, but most cannot do it with the same amplitude across the lower frequency range.

If I wanted to enjoy my tunes (of all types) I would not be using a 15", I would be using a pair of 12" or a pair of 10" and call it a day. A properly designed and installed system like this can leave many a jaw on the floor.

forbidden wrote:

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Personal opinion here, but if I wanted to listen to my music and I was just getting started in this industy, I would choose a good pair of 12's in the proper box. 15" subs move lots of air (hence louder ) and reach way down low with more amplitude than a brother 12" would, the tradeoff though is that most 12's will produce a much more lively type of output for you to listen to on a daily basis. A 12 can play just as deep as a 15" can, especially if the box type is the same, but most cannot do it with the same amplitude across the lower frequency range.

If I wanted to enjoy my tunes (of all types) I would not be using a 15", I would be using a pair of 12" or a pair of 10" and call it a day. A properly designed and installed system like this can leave many a jaw on the floor.

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Congregation:   AMEN!

If you want more bass consider moving up the line in terms of quality, not getting a larger cone.  Ussually, with any given line of subwoofers, the motor sturcture stays the same between 10-12-15" modles.  Only the cone gets bigger and this larger air piston is harder to control, the bass gets sloppy and less defined.  The gains from going to a 15 from a 12 with most product lines are marginal, if you want more bass go up a line.  No one company has the market covered on effeint, 200$, 300-400w 12" subs.  What was your sub before?  I'm guessing something low-end, that would explaine your weak bassline.

It seems like you and I listen to the same stuff and the bass I get from the 10's I run (i have several cars each with a system) fills the cabin and has good punch.  People who know little about car audio are always surprised you can get that sound out of one subwoofer.  Soon I'll upgrade my suburban subwoofer to a better sub, but it will be a 12, the cabin is just huge.  Personally I only recommend 15" subwoofers to bassheads.

Just a opinion.

i'm always in favor of opinions from people, sometimes they shed light on things you wouldnt otherwise think about, my sub isnt low end like pyle, or sony i've got a rockford fosgate he punch 10" svc its a 200 watt rms sub in a custom glass box i just built, the lack of thump is probably the amps fault as i have no idea what it really puts out, but i'm guessing its around 100 watts and since its a 4 ohm sub i have no idea if that amp puts out max power at 4 ohms or not, i'm planning to upgrade the amp to something that the new subs will take right to but wont kill this sub, my plan is a memphis 500 watt @2 ohm it puts out 250@4 ohm which isnt so far off what i need, the encloser i have is right around the perfect size for this sub so i'm not to worried about smokin it since i dont plan to crank up the gain with the 10", i had been planning on 12s but another member pointed me towards the 15" tempests which seem like a really good sub for the money,  define bass head, what characterists make a person a bass head? personally i love when the bass line shakes your whole body and if possible the car a block down the street,  i've heard 15s i've heard 10s i've heard 2 10s hit as hard as a single 15 and i've heard the difference between the 2, i really want a setup that will yeild good spl as well as have decent sq, the tempests seem to fit that bill pretty good, i also have a lot of space to put these subs in, i'm using sealed enclosures as well to tighten up the bass alittle i'm still considering 12s but the 15s are deffinatly looking good to me especially since i'm trying not to spend more than 600 for subs and an amp now if someone knows a really good sub for around 300 bucks that will pound as hard as 2 15s on 500 watts @ 2ohms by all means let me know i'd be more than happy to change my plan if it will yeild a better spl/sq mix

J~

heavilymedicate wrote:

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If you want more bass consider moving up the line in terms of quality, not getting a larger cone.  Ussually, with any given line of subwoofers, the motor sturcture stays the same between 10-12-15" modles.  Only the cone gets bigger and this larger air piston is harder to control, the bass gets sloppy and less defined. 

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Sorry, but I don't agree with that.  A 15" (or even larger) speaker can sound just as good as any smaller speaker.  You are correct that most speakers in a line share the same motor.  What you end up with on the larger speakers is higher efficiency, has a higher output potential, and has more low end.  However the cost is a much larger enclosure requirement.   Now sometimes the manufacturer will adjust the spider stiffness to tweak those differences a little.  But that won't effect the transient response either. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

wow, over 150db? thats alittle loud for my needs,  plus i'm budgeting to 300 for subs give or take 50 or 60 over that if the subs are worth it, and 300 for an amp again give or take 50 or 60 if the value is there, the current setup i have worked out falls short of my 600 budget, as i'm going to get 2 15" adire tempests, and run a  memphis mc500d to power them at a 2 ohm load this will give me a base line setup, if i need more i will upgrade the amp to 800 watts, if i get to taht point i'll probably just buy new subs and an amp to push them but this setup should get me nice and loud, i was planning to build sealed boxes, but i'm not 100% sure that i will be doing that though, since i listen to metal, and rap its kinda hard to say which will work better without listening first, i doubt the tempest will dissapoint me on noise even in a sealed box, i've heard sealed subs get super low and loud, if anyone has any more suggestions feel free to add them i'm still looking over subs, a couple kicker l7s look pretty nice, i could probably get 1 15" and get nice thump out of it i'm also thinking about memphis subs, diamond audio 15s, and some of the lower priced jl audio subs, but the tempests are lookin promising.

J~