Midrange losses

I was reading another post about tweeter placement and someone said that separating the tweeter too far from the midrange created a dip at the crossover point in the frequency spectrum.  They also said this gets worse the more off axis the speaker is from the listening position.  Might have been stevdart or kfr01, I don't remember.

A couple of months ago I was looking for a set of 6 1/2's for my truck and I got to where I was buying several pairs at a time to test them up against each other.  I wanted to put them in my doors, but when placing them where they would be in the doors during my testing phase, I noticed a HUGE loss of midrange.  Yeah, one of these pairs that I tried was Audiobahn, but I ended up taking them back because they lost midrange really badly, more than most did.  But put them where they would be in kickpanels and they sounded wonderful, any pair that I tried(and I thought the Bahns did too), but kickpanels were not an option for me cause the E-brake release would hit the driver's side panel.  So I finally ended up buying a pair of Sony Xplod 6 1/2's because they sounded overly middy in the store display, and didn't lose as much as the others when turned facing each other like they would be in doors. 

I was told that speakers facing each other have a canceling affect and that was why I was losing midrange.  That made a little sense to me because it would be like one was out of phase with the other one(firing towards each other which would be like opposite directions). 

Also, I know that mids and highs are way more directional than low frequencies are.  So I figured that had a lot to do with it.  So, is losing midrange a symptom of speakers being off axis to my listening position??  In other words, is that what it means??  I have them low in the doors, just about floor level(only place to put them in the doors), and they definitely aren't facing anywhere near my listening position. 

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audeogod

92 Chevrolet Cheyenne 1/2 ton truck
Pioneer DEH-41
Eclipse 2-way coaxial 4x6's in dash
Eclipse 3-way coaxial 6 1/2's in doors(cut to fit)
Pioneer GM-X332 amp bridged to Kicker 8" sub

have you sealed the back of the speaker in the door, I was loosing a bit of mid until I sealed the back of the pod I built onto my doors .   This might help a little

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place

You got it. Off-axis response was probably the problem.

Check this out:

https://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/850573.htm

This is the spec sheet for a peerless 6.5" car audio driver. I have no doubt this driver is better than any coax driver you tried. Look how it rolls off dramatically at 1.5khz at 60degrees off axis. Tweeters on coax speakers are frequently crossed over very high. (~4khz). This means at 60degrees off axis, which at least the drivers side midrange is probably near, you've got a giant freaking hole from 1.5khz to near 4khz.

Sigh... This is one of the reasons I need to get my drivers out of the doors too. Thankfully, with the lower xo point of 2.4khz on the quart pce components, this problem is somewhat helped.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Ok, so can anyone tell me how much production I'm robbed of with this setup?

My 5.25"(In signature) in the 98 M.C. door positions. (Near the floor) with the felt removed for some less resistance into the cabin. (I personally think this made some volume and clarity improvement) but I have always noticed trying to give a front image to the sound well, sounds horrible. No midrange to fill in the problem? Should I consider moving placement(kicker panel, if so, how hard would this be?) or look to a 3-way or component system later on?

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1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm

Ok, so since I've already cut holes and ran wire to my doors, I now have to put something in there just to make it look good so putting the speakers anywhere else is not an option for me anymore.  But, even though I have better performance out of the Sony's I have in there now over any other that I tried, I am not happy with them overall. 

Do you think that I could put in a set of component speakers with 6.5" woofers and separate tweeters, and maybe manipulate crossover frequencies to get back the midrange that I lost??  I guess it would have to come from the tweeter.  If not, then what about a 3-way set up with separates(6.5" midbass, 4" midrange, and a tweeter), cause I think I might have room to put in a shallow(maybe very shallow) 3.5" or 4" speaker on up the door aways.  It too would be off axis, but would be much higher up and therefore closer to my listening position.  Only reason that I thought this would help is that the 4" speakers I now have in the dash seem to recover most of what the 6.5's lose.

Other than this, and short of building kickpanel speaker pods, what can I do??  This has distressed me for 2 months now.  Made me wish I had never put speakers in my doors.  I've even considered a slideband EQ to boost the lost frequencies, cause I really hate using the dash speakers to get back what the 6.5's lose.  Seems like they mess up the imaging with the driver's side dash speaker being way too close. 

Also, no I did not seal behind the speaker on the door.  Only thing I think I could use for this is something that Crutchfield called speaker baffles and I saw them in the catalog years ago so I don't know if they still sell them.  They were made out of foam and were basically a little enclosure that you put in the hole before mounting the speaker that was intended to separate the speaker from the air space behind it, like for example speakers in the rear deck when there is a sub in the trunk.     Do you think these would help??

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audeogod

92 Chevrolet Cheyenne 1/2 ton truck
Pioneer DEH-41
Eclipse 2-way coaxial 4x6's in dash
Eclipse 3-way coaxial 6 1/2's in doors(cut to fit)
Pioneer GM-X332 amp bridged to Kicker 8" sub

Hey jeffchilcott, how did you build pods on your doors??  Using fiberglass??

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audeogod

92 Chevrolet Cheyenne 1/2 ton truck
Pioneer DEH-41
Eclipse 2-way coaxial 4x6's in dash
Eclipse 3-way coaxial 6 1/2's in doors(cut to fit)
Pioneer GM-X332 amp bridged to Kicker 8" sub