How many farads?

wayland1985 wrote:

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The 1800 watt amp likes to shut off a lot.  

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What does that mean?  Does it go into protection?  What kind of amp is it and what kind of speakers is it driving and how are they connected? List make/model numbers.

2 DVC woofers, wired to 1 ohm

When really high "THUMPS" are hit,  the amp just shuts down for a few seconds,   enters protection mode,  then turns on.  However,  it doesn't instantly go into protection.  It COMPLETELY shuts down, then power again reaches the amp and it enters protection...

I do have a new 200 amp HO alternator.  I ran a new ground from the alternator to the car body (not the fenders), and upgraded the positive cables.  (will this new ground to the body be sufficient?)

I get an ERROR message in my voltage meter occasionally before they shut off,  which translates into LOW VOLTAGE.  Could the Battery also be a source of the problem?

Or Will a simple multi-farad capacitor do the trick?

OR do i have to mix and match (BOTH BATTERY AND CAP)?

I absolutely agree with the above post.  Caps are not going to help you.  It sounds to me like one or both of two things are happening: 1) your alternator, battery, voltage regulator and/or wiring has a problem, 2) your amp cannot handle the load you are throwing at it.

You never said what the amp is.  Make/model?

I went over the works, and found the ground to be a little loose.  I re-grounded the 1800 watt amp separately from the ground block, and it seems to have aided my problem significantly.  

Why would the 300 watt amp still function if this was the source of my problem???   Is there something else I'm overlooking here?   Or was the shutoff due to large power consumption????

There's about 1200 members who won't get on your case and only an occasional handful that would, but they're not productive members anyway....

The thread is not a question of what amp to buy, but will a cap solve the problem.

The make/model info is needed to figure if the load is too much.  And, yes, it very well might be, even tho the amp is spec'd to be stable at 1 ohm mono.

You've already seen a difference in performance by making a change in the ground.  For the amp (and most amps, BTW) to perform without fault at the extreme limit of their operating range, all things must be perfect.  Even the subs themselves may result in an impedance that pushes the boundary too far.  Because speakers are never at an exact number of ohms impedance....but are actually rated for impedance over a variety of frequencies.  And one woofer will have a slightly different impedance than another one.

When you run the amp at an easier load (2 ohms), it is more forgiving of the little things that aren't perfect in the overall system.

Thanks stevdart.

My intention in asking is not to give you crap for your brand choices, that happens on other forums.  My intention was so I could look up the amplifier's specifications and see if you were overloading it by your setup.

Audiobahn rates their amps to a 1-ohm load, but it is not uncommon that they cannot actually handle 1-ohm.  Audiobahn - and many other companies - tend to overstate their ratings.  So as stevdart suggests, changing to a 2 or 4 ohm load is a good test - and better for the amp in any case.   Good for you to have found a potentially badground, that could be part of the problem.  Another possible cause is you may have the input gain on the amp set too high.  How did you set it up?

Haha...  DYohn I didn't mean to single you out....but even in your last post you were able to throw a jab at Audiobahn.... In my personal experience Audiobahn is a good company,  who stands by their product.  So what if they have chrome components,  a few extra LED's for show,  or some flames.  Take the covers off the amp, and you may find they have the same electrical components that other companies may use.  Besides,  how much would an LED cost when you buy in bulk?  A penny?  And the chrome?   Probably not a considerable amount more than a painted casing, especially when you assemble the product in quantity.  Besides,  when you pick up a JL audio product,  what do you think you're paying for?  A subwoofer with an internal supercomputer,  or an amplifier with fiber-optic wires, solid gold components, and a bulletproof circuitboard???   Although possible, I don't find it likely at all.  If anything,  you're paying 100 dollars to buy the letter "J",  another 100 to buy the letter "L"  and 200 to glue a W7 badge on ( the word AUDIO is thrown in for free).

ANYWAYS.....   I've wired the subs to two ohms before (by unhooking one sub)  and that yielded basically no change at all.  It still shut off. 

I'm wondering,  can an amplifier, in essence, bottle up a charge (by not having a good ground) causing it to shut down, and not the other amplifier?   OR  do the lager beats just rattle the loose ground connection, causing it to shut down,  while the 300 watt amp can handle the bad ground???

FROM BATTERY:

1/0 gauge
200amp fuse (1 foot from battery)
1/0gauge to end of car (18 feet)
Distribution block (150 amp fused for 1800 watt,  40 amp? Fused for 300 watt)
4 gauge 1 foot to amplifier

From amp to ground

4 gauge (2 feet to ground)

The battery i have is about 5 years old,  but is a 1000CCA model vs. the 750 for a yellowtop...
(PREVIOUSLY WAS 6 inches to distribution block, into 1/0 gauge, 3 feet to ground)

Amplifier uses 5-30 amp fuses

auex]I wrote:

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m not productive???

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oops!  lol... I guess there are exceptions......

1/0 gauge
200amp fuse (1 foot from battery)
1/0gauge to end of car (18 feet)
Distribution block (150 amp fused for 1800 watt,  40 amp? Fused for 300 watt)
4 gauge 1 foot to amplifier

From amp to ground

4 gauge (2 feet to ground)

get a 0/1 guage ground... if you are takin from the battery 0/1 make the ground.... 0/1 .... have a 4 guage ground.... and  a0/1 guage input.... thats like putting a telephone pole up your cars electrical ass...

get 0/1 guage grounds... then come back

Why would I need a 1/0 gauge ground coming from the amp, if all I have going into the amp is a 4 gauge wire?

What I was trying to say in that post is i have 1/0 going all the way to the rear of the SUV to a fused distribution block, which powers two amplifiers.

from that fused block, I have 8 ga. going to 1 amp,  and 4 going to another.

Besides,  I had the grounds going through a 1/0 gauge distrobution block, but changing it to a direct ground solved half of my problems.   PLUS the amp can't take 1/0 gauge wire.....it's designed for 4 ga.

wayland1985 wrote:

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Why would I need a 1/0 gauge ground coming from the amp, if all I have going into the amp is a 4 gauge wire?

What I was trying to say in that post is i have 1/0 going all the way to the rear of the SUV to a fused distribution block, which powers two amplifiers.

from that fused block, I have 8 ga. going to 1 amp,  and 4 going to another.

Besides,  I had the grounds going through a 1/0 gauge distrobution block, but changing it to a direct ground solved half of my problems.   PLUS the amp can't take 1/0 gauge wire.....it's designed for 4 ga.

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If you start off from your battery with 1/0 gauge, you need to end at your grounding point with 1/0 gauge. What is in the middle is relatively unimportant from an in/out standpoint...you can buy an adaptor to go from 1/0 gauge to 4 gauge to fit in your amp. Someone else will need to provide you with a link for one, though.

wayland1985 wrote:

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...Besides,  when you pick up a JL audio product,  what do you think you're paying for?  A subwoofer with an internal supercomputer,  or an amplifier with fiber-optic wires, solid gold components, and a bulletproof circuitboard???   Although possible, I don't find it likely at all.  If anything,  you're paying 100 dollars to buy the letter "J",  another 100 to buy the letter "L"  and 200 to glue a W7 badge on ( the word AUDIO is thrown in for free).

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Even though I'm sure you meant this in jest, this is not completly true or accurate. And I'm not just talking about the reference to JL Audio - this goes for just about any company that is worth a dime. You do not pay for the name (technically speaking), although lots of people think of it that way. Just something to think about...

white installer wrote:

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.... 3. make CERTAIN!! that your ground is a good ground... a seatbelt bolt is a good ground because it is RIGHT into the frame...

-Rob

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I wouldn't reccomend a seat belt bolt as a good ground. It might be better then other places but drilling a hole directly on the chassis is usually better. I think GM uses "gorilla snot" around their seat belt bolts so using one of those bolts with that stuff around it would not be a good ground at all.

I second that, a seatbelt bolt is actually in 99% of the cases a bad grounding point as they are basically a nut spot welded to the sheetmetal and not to the frame. This spot welding creates a high resistance for current to pass through.The "gorilla snot" also makes the matter even worse. Had it been "dog slobber" you would have been good to go.

The BIG 3 also has a much older and wiser 4th brother. This 4th brother if needed is a ground direct to the battery. If the spot you have chosen for your grounds has a return resistance of 1/2 ohm or greater (ewwww) then it is best to ground direct to the battery with as large a wire as the power wire. It is called resistance on the ground return and what it equates to is you eating a foot long sub and then someone sewing your butt shut. Current flows from negative to positive as most people are aware, the ground wire is the most important wire there is, make sure that it is done properly and not the assumed correct way.

This Is starting to get annoying.... But hey....I'lll do as you say...

1.  I have a second ground going from the alternator to the battery to the firewall in 2 gauge wire.  The stock chassis ground ( in my case alternator is bolted to engine block which is bolted to the chassis, with a ground strap to the body).  I figured I'd get a better ground to the firewall,  since the entire body is welded together.   I was told since that the rubber bushings that bolt the body to the chassis don't provide a solid ground.

2.  The Ground spot I chose is completely bare of paint.  I used a power drill and a wire brush to scrape off the area, and remove all paint and primer. 

3.  The Vehicle's stock wiring has all been upgraded to 2 gauge.  (the new alternator is 2 feet away from the battery)  The stock ground 10 gauge is still in tact,  in addition to my new 2 gauge grounds.

4.  For trouble shooting I REMOVED THE 4 gauge from the  "COLLECTOR" block, and bolted it directly to the body.  The collector block had a 1/0 gauge wire to the body as well....  It seems to work considerably better with just the 4 gauge...

I know you'll be angry at this one....but I"m having a difficult time figuring out why my 4 gauge ground isn't good enough....  It's not making sense to me, and I can't see where you're coming from.... I guess you'll have to go slow on that part...   But this is how I'm interpreting my setup.  I have 1/0 gauge coming from my battery to the rear of my SUV.  At the rear I have a Fused distribution block  (it's a Scosche EFX ANL and AGU fuse distrobution block)   After flowing through a 150 amp ANL fuse,  the power is picked up by 4 gauge power wire which travels to my amplifier.  I see the 1/0 gauge as (now this is the best way i could put what i'm thinking into words) extending the battery's positive terminal to the rear of the truck.  I see the distribution block as the PICKUP for the battery's power.  Then I see my 4 gauge picking up power through this block,  and putting it into the amplifier.  I then see the ground as being my entire vehicle's body,  which is also an "EXTENSION" of the battery's negative terminal.

What is confusing me is how much of a difference can be made by putting 4 gauge wire into a "collector block" which has a 1/0 gauge ground to the body???    Does it carry more current than would having 4 gauge going directly into the body?  If anything, i see this setup as being just another "PICKUP" for grounding (a place where I can dump the ground from the amp).  Why can't I just "dump" right into the body itself?  Mind you,  my 4 gauge ground is only 2 feet long,  which is actually shorter than my 3 foot setup before ( 4 gauge into a block into 1/0 gauge into the ground)  What's the deal here? 

Plus,  I've always been told that having a ground more than 3 feet long is undesirable.

Please enlighten this poor college student!  I'd like to see things your way...  AND DON"T BE ANGRY IF I ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!! I'm JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON!

Current flows from negative to positive. This makes the ground wire the most important wire there is. Think of it this way, even though the sheet metal of the car and the chassis are huge amounts of metal, they are full of impurities and they are for the most part not a continueous path. Meaning, most car bodies are unibody, meaning the sheet metal is glued together or spot welded only. This makes current transfer a problem. It is not about the amount of metal in the return to the battery, it is about the resistance through it.

In principle a ground wire of 3' or less is the assumed way to properly wire a ground wire. For most systems and vehicles it is not a problem. You must measure the ground return resistance to ensure a correct and proper ground. A correct and proper ground will have a resistance reading of 1/2 ohm or less. If it is higher than this, it is an improper ground and all sorts of issues can arise, especially once an amp starts to draw large amounts of current. A small problem at low volume becomes a large problem at high volume. 99.99% of installers never check the ground return resistance or even think to ask the customer about it. We just had a customer who refused to have his ground wire done properly in a new Mazda RX8. We took all precautions possible to ensure that his ground was as good as it could be based on this. His return reistance reading was 4.6 ohms. He has blown his 1001BD Rockford amp 4 times in 5months due to this reading. Change the wire to a direct 4 gauge line to the battery resulted in a .03 ohm reading, hook up a new temporary amp and voila, monster ouput and no issues.

Find out what your return resistance reading is. Use your meter on the resistance setting. Take one probe and attach it to the neg terminal on the battery. Take the other probe and attach it to the end of the ground wire before it goes into the amp. (disconnect from the amp). If the probes do not reach use a jumper wire to extend one of the probes. Measuer this line for any resistance reading and subtract it from the total.

I think I may be cured.

After spending an hour probing the entire setup, I found a few issues. 

1.  The remote switch I was using was basically busted.  It was giving me big issues ( I wasn't using the Head unit's remote turn on, so that I could manually turn on and off the amplifier)

2.  The Scosche EFX fused distribution block is pretty much flawed.  The Screws are coming loose,  and the ANL fuse I had wasn't secure ( twiddling around the block yielded a huge spark....a pretty good sign something was wrong).  A few turns of the bolt holding the fuse in did the trick. 

               ----Anybody know any way to keep the bolts secure,  until I need to replace the fuse?

I checked the current running to the amplifier itself, and I had about 90 ohms at idle.

So now everything seems to be running pretty strong.   I'll check out the suggestion Forbidden made later this week,  so as not to blow the thing up.   Thanks for all the suggestions and tips.