Do I Really Need A Subwoofer?

Hi All,

I've been having a problem with a slight distortion sound at all volumes on my Alpine 9821. Its not an alternator whine. I have new Kenwood 6889ies in the front and factory speakers still in the back.

I went to visit Al & Eds today since they are an Alpine dealer and tried to get help. He didn't listen to it, but suggested trying different speakers. BTW, the slight distortion is on both speaker pairs. Almost sounds like bad reception at times, except it does it on the Cd also.

He also said most speakers these days are really meant to be used with Subwoofers and an amp and not by regular speakers alone. He said they weren't really meant to produce bass.

But if he's not correct would anyone have some 5x7/6x8 speaker recommendations. Through my searching on this board, it sound's like Boston Acoustics, MS Quart, and Infinity's are some decent ones to get.

Is this true, as all I really want is a HU and four speakers for my set up as I prefer Rock and Jazz to listen to.

There are plenty of good, informative posts in this forum that address your issue, like this response from Rob at Forbidden.  When you want to really start enjoying your music (and want to also grow your sig line)..........invest in amplified speakers and subwoofer for all types of music.

Jazz, especially, can only be fully appreciated when powered with sufficient watts and quality speakers.  It is in that type of music that you find really great dynamic range......when the drums hit you feel it in your heart.

When you're comparing the output of a deck and a set of speakers to the output of two amps, a set of speakers and a subwoofer...........It's like comparing modern hi-fi to the tabletop 45 rpm record player of the '60s.

Thanks auex and pimpincavy for the info.

I do have the ground hooked to the firewall after having it hooked to the cars harness originally. But no difference.

Can you explain how the crossover would work for my current speakers, or did you mean that for the component type? Also is there a certain type you would recommend?

But thanks again for the suggestions as I will look into them ASAP.

thanks stevdart for the suggestions too.

Part of the problem is I have been to many car races and have played in bands so I don't want to hurt my hearing any more than I have already.

joe

Not all subwoofers have to play loud. If you are smart and don't have the volume control cranked all day then you won't be able to lose your hearing from a single inexpensive 10 or 12 inch sub. If you are satisfied with the amount of bass then you don't have to have one though. It would allow your midrange speakers to sound better if you had a sub because they won't have to produce lower bass also.

Yeah, subs don't kill eardrums, people do.

I'm putting enough into my car that if I listened to it high for a good while my hearing would go poop, but I know how to use that little knob thingy and keep it tolerable. (Short of when some dick pulls up and thinks he has a good system with his$200 pioneer setup, gag.) There is a reason people keep suggesting the sub, properly designed and used moderately can fill in an end of the spectrum that, well, reaches a special place. And having been in a band should only develop a further desire to get that, at least in my head that makes sense. Also if you are REALLY determined to avoid the sub for some reason, an amp will still help your speakers perform at an acceptable level.

Ok I'm done.

Subwoofers are a very important part of a system. Almost all if not all of the World Finalists in SQ competitions use some sort of amps and subs setup. So to really experience your music i believe yes you need a subwoofer. But really you need what makes you happy and what you want. if you want a sub, then get a sub, if not then dont. Do what makes you think wow i like what i have. and if you get that then its the perfect setup for you.

Thanks everyone for chiming in. Thats a lot of food for thought.

Part of my dilemma is I started out just wanting to get a better sound for my SkyFi 2 and decided to get the Alpine so I could keep the wires hidden real well and so I could just push a button (AUX) and be set to go.

The other part of the dilemma is I may not keep this car too much longer, two years max at most. Not sure how much more I really want to spend on this vehicle.

But thanks again for all the suggestions and info you gave.

Peace.............Joe

 Thanks Stevdart.

Joe, a subs job is to reproduce natural sounds that are generally beyond the capabilities of the smaller speakers. While these smaller speakers may infact reproduce these sounds, they cannot do it with any amount of amplitude or force if you will. If you want to keep it simple add a basic 10" sub in a sealed box or even a amplified bazooka tube. The next thing to consider is to throw some kind of protection on the front and rear speakers to try and block the damaging bottom end from getting into the speakers. This will allow the speakers to play a little safer with what little power they are being fed.

A simple device to do this is called a capacitor. For larger speakers a 400uf cap (non - polar and mylar if possible (found at any radio shack)) is wired into the + speaker lead at the speaker or behind the cd player. Take the + lead and undo it from the speaker, attach it to the cap and attach the other lead on the cap back to the speaker. Done and done. Smaller size speakers may need a different size cap. Without knowing the size of your speakers I can only speculate on the size. A cap in this case is also known as a bass blocker. Any more questions post em up and one of the fine guys on the site will be glad to answer.

Thanks Rob for the good explanation.

Everyone here has been very helpful. I'm glad I found this forum and I'm sure I will have more questions soon.

Joe

Hi,

I am taking this a step at a time.

I am contemplating buying an Alpine MRP-F240 or Circuit City has an amplified 8" sub for $99.00 (the EL8A).

I remember in the old days having an amp was enough to satisfy me my tastes. But if the coaxial speakers these days aren't really designed to handle lows anymore, maybe the amped sub and capacitors on the coaxials type setup would be better for me to try out first.

I did buy some SPS-570A's and liked the sound of them over my Kenwood 3-ways, but can "hear they need a little help still.

Any opinions?

Thanks.............Joe

Didn't your original problem state you get distortion at ALL volume levels?

If the distrtion is present at a medium to low volume level, the speakers could be blown. I have had subs that were blown, but sounded fine until the volume was turnned up a little. Everyone above is right about a sub being important for good sound. But I think your problem is that the speakers themselves are bad. Small speakers cannot reproduce low bass effectively, but it will not distort at low volumes. If you were satisfied with the small speakers before the distortion problem, you don't need much. I have a Ranger x-cab, and too much sub sounds like sh*t unless the windows are down. I would recommend seriously checking the speakers them selves. Pull one out & listen to it. If it is bad, you should just replace the speakers with a medium grade speaker. I would not spend more than $50/pair, a cheap priced name brand speaker will do your application fine. Then I would look into the 8" sub idea. You should get a seperate amp/sub setup. Mount the amp under your seat, and have the box behind the seat. By having these seperate, a thief can't just grab & run with everything. And I know from experience, that if you find yourself needing to use the entire cab (ie rainning & you need to keep sh*t dry) It is real simple to just unplugg the sub & put it in a garage, Instead of disconnecting the power, remote, and ground wire, connecting the one piece setup.

I hope this didn't confuse you., with the speakers running off the deck, and the sub with a small amp, capacitors are unneccessary, and turn the bass off, or down on the main speakers. Use the gain on the sub amp to increase the bass. No sense in spending more than you have to, & if the speakers you have are not blown, then all you would need is the sub, box, and a small amp. If you pick a dual voice coil sub, you can get a real small amp & run it at a 2ohm load, which will double the amp's output (allowing a small/cheap amp to run the sub perfectly).

If you have any other questions, you can email me at audiophyle_247@yahoo.com . Put your question in the subject, so I know its not garbage.

Hope I helped.

audiophyle_247 wrote:

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Didn't your original problem state you get distortion at ALL volume levels?

If the distrtion is present at a medium to low volume level, the speakers could be blown. I have had subs that were blown, but sounded fine until the volume was turnned up a little. Everyone above is right about a sub being important for good sound. But I think your problem is that the speakers themselves are bad. Small speakers cannot reproduce low bass effectively, but it will not distort at low volumes. If you were satisfied with the small speakers before the distortion problem, you don't need much. I have a Ranger x-cab, and too much sub sounds like sh*t unless the windows are down. I would recommend seriously checking the speakers them selves. Pull one out & listen to it. If it is bad, you should just replace the speakers with a medium grade speaker. I would not spend more than $50/pair, a cheap priced name brand speaker will do your application fine. Then I would look into the 8" sub idea. You should get a seperate amp/sub setup. Mount the amp under your seat, and have the box behind the seat. By having these seperate, a thief can't just grab & run with everything. And I know from experience, that if you find yourself needing to use the entire cab (ie rainning & you need to keep sh*t dry) It is real simple to just unplugg the sub & put it in a garage, Instead of disconnecting the power, remote, and ground wire, connecting the one piece setup.

I hope this didn't confuse you., with the speakers running off the deck, and the sub with a small amp, capacitors are unneccessary, and turn the bass off, or down on the main speakers. Use the gain on the sub amp to increase the bass. No sense in spending more than you have to, & if the speakers you have are not blown, then all you would need is the sub, box, and a small amp. If you pick a dual voice coil sub, you can get a real small amp & run it at a 2ohm load, which will double the amp's output (allowing a small/cheap amp to run the sub perfectly).

If you have any other questions, you can email me at audiophyle_247@yahoo.com . Put your question in the subject, so I know its not garbage.

Hope I helped.

---

Thanks for the information audiophyle_247 and you have helped .

Actually, I probably should have mentioned the distortion was on the high frequencys mostly and slightly, and more of as someone had mentioned elsewhere, a kind of  "lisp or fuzzy sound" at all volumes. Also the mids don't sound so great with mid- frequency heavy type of music. All the speakers are new and they sound better when I turn up the volume.

I went and listened to my HU model at CC recently and heard the same slight distortion there too. I will try listening to them the way you mentioned to be absolutely sure the speakers are OK or not.

What would you recommend for a inexpensive amp, sub, and box?

Thanks again for the suggestions.

If your are looking to just round out the low end in your truck any of these systems would work nicely without leaving your broke.

https://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1030W Infinity 10" sub

https://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX202 MTX 200 watt RMS amp

Total: about $150

or even cheaper but would still sound great

https://www.cardomain.com/item/BLATSW1000 Blaupunkt 10" sub

https://www.cardomain.com/item/BLAPCA250 Blaupunkt 150 watt continuous amp

Total: about $120

Either of those subs could use a pre-built box like this one. https://www.cardomain.com/item/RTE31110 Or you could build your own and save even more money.

Or you could go with an even more simple sub/amp combo like this. https://www.cardomain.com/item/BAZBTA10100 I think the seperate amp and sub combos I mentioned above have a higher value then the Bazooka bass tube and would sound better.

I would recommend some research before buying.  MTX & Infinity are excellent brands, and those items stated above are very good.But I am sure you could find them cheaper with a little online searching.

Here is what I found in 20 minutes of looking.

https://.../mtxthunder282.html

https://.../inf1030w.html

OK, not cheaper, but a total of 160 is a cheap, well based system. However, the MTX amp I show above is more powerfull than the one previously recommended. The one shown earlier is at the same site for $80, makine the total $140, but the more powerful amp would be better for the Infinity sub.

I'm not saying these are the brands, or items to use, but they are definetly a quality choice.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone and for helping someone with a Mickey Mouse budget get the best bang for the buck.

$150.00 is about as much more as I really want to put into this project. Good to know the consensus is these are some good brands to try . Definitely I will look into those recommendations. I need to figure size requirements for boxes etc.

BTW, is www.cardomain.com a good company to buy from as far as service, returns, and reliability is concerned?

Thanks

Joe

1. You will not be able to notice the difference in output you would gain with the 80 watts more from that amp

2. Say good buy to any warranty for those products on millionbuy.com

3. If you really feel 80 watts will make a big difference sounddomain.com has that MTX amp for $109 also but it includes a warranty. https://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX282

joe12volt, car domain from what I have heard is a great place to buy from.

Here is what I found in 20 minutes of looking.

https://.../mtxthunder282.html

https://.../inf1030w.html

OK, not cheaper, but a total of 160 is a cheap, well based system. However, the MTX amp I show above is more powerfull than the one previously recommended. The one shown earlier is at the same site for $80, makine the total $140, but the more powerful amp would be better for the Infinity sub.

I'm not saying these are the brands, or items to use, but they are definitely a quality choice

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1. You will not be able to notice the difference in output you would gain with the 80 watts more from that amp

2. Say good buy to any warranty for those products on millionbuy.com

3. If you really feel 80 watts will make a big difference sounddomain.com has that MTX amp for $109 also but it includes a warranty. https://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX282

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the funky way to put your quotes up, but I don't know how to put two quotes up at once.

Either way I go, you guys gave some good suggestions and I will search for some good deals on those models. I will probably over search for them as I usually do. You both have helped me immensely as well as others on this fine forum.

If you want to pay regular price for something, go to www.crutchfield.com , I have bought clearence items from them. They have 24 hour support that will answer any question you would have, at any time durring & after a purchase. You could even call them, talk to a salesman, & they can work with your needs, as well as fit it in your budget.

I just don't like spending more than I have to, regardless of warranty. 7 years of audio addiction, and I have yet to have anything break on me that wasn't my fault (which no warranty would cover anyway).

Here is what I found in 20 minutes of looking.

https://.../mtxthunder282.html

https://.../inf1030w.html

OK, not cheaper, but a total of 160 is a cheap, well based system. However, the MTX amp I show above is more powerfull than the one previously recommended. The one shown earlier is at the same site for $80, makine the total $140, but the more powerful amp would be better for the Infinity sub.

I'm not saying these are the brands, or items to use, but they are definitely a quality choice

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. You will not be able to notice the difference in output you would gain with the 80 watts more from that amp

2. Say good buy to any warranty for those products on millionbuy.com

3. If you really feel 80 watts will make a big difference sounddomain.com has that MTX amp for $109 also but it includes a warranty. https://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX282

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the funky way to put your quotes up, but I don't know how to put two quotes up at once.

Either way I go, you guys gave some good suggestions and I will search for some good deals on those models. I will probably over search for them as I usually do. You both have helped me immensely as well as others on this fine forum.