Alternator upgrade advice
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=49393
Printed Date: April 29, 2024 at 12:02 PM
Topic: Alternator upgrade advice
Posted By: invictuz
Subject: Alternator upgrade advice
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 7:58 AM
[u]Question[/u]
Where can i find a good HO alternator that requires little or no modification to stock electrical system (other than bigger cable or install bracket mounts).
Based on info below is the bigger alternator the right solution?
(from what i have read it appears to be but i find alot of conflicting info on +/- of more batteries, bigger caps, second alternators etc...) [u]Problem[/u]
I like it loud and hard all the time [i](i'm the guy pounding down the freeway at 6am, then quitely pulling into the garage at work, then pounding as soon as i hit i90 at 6pm)[/i].
if i drop below about 1200RPM (25mph or lower) i watch my dash voltometer drop from about 13v to 10v. If i do not catch it my "check battery" light comes on at 9v and some times stalls the truck (even if still driving under 10mph).
hard notes (outcast/speakerbox track 1, any Baby Anne or Q/Uberzone) on highway (at 2200rpm+) and i still see the needle sway. [u]Goal[/u]
I am trying to locate an 200+ amp (ideally 300) alternator for under 350$ that i can install (= basic cable replacement / minor bracket install, nothing more difficult than the self install of the below equipment...). [u]Vehicle/current config:[/u]
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.2liter
120 amp alternator (already upgraded from stock 90amp)
Alpine 9833 control unit w/3 4 volt pair of outs
Biggest battery i found at Schucks (not optima) 4X RF 301m
4X MTX81044a DVC (one 301m per MTX)
2X JVC AX4750 (powers infinitys)
4X 6000CS Infinity (each door)
2X 1001T Infinity
4X .5 farad caps (one for each 301m) 4 way Distribution/fuse block (aka MTX DIST)
2 way Distribution/fuse block (aka JVC DIST)
8g running from battery to MTX DIST (17 feet)
8g running from MTX DIST to JVC DIST (1.5 inches)
10g running from MTX DIST channel to each .5 farad
12g running from JVC DIST channel to each JVC amp
10g running from each .5 farad to RF 301m
12g running from each 301m to each MTX [u]Scalability [/u]
researching a midbass/midrange solution for near future addition.
adding two more MTX after if refine fiberglass skill (2X MTX means 2X RF 301m's)
possibly upgrading 301ms to P6001bd RF P6001bd [u]Closing[/u]
ok...think that covers it...any suggestions/advice/links are greatly appreciated! thanks
Replies:
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 9:06 AM
Nice Jeep, BTW. You have a problem with insufficient wiring gauge. And useless stiffening capacitors. I recommend that you take the 4 caps out of the install and sell them to some unsuspecting misfortunate on fleabay. Also, and more importantly, upgrade the audio system wiring. Figure out your total maximum wattage/amperage pull and use this chart to find proper wire sizes. Right off the top of my head, I will tell you that 8 ga. is absolutely the smallest size you should have anywhere in that system, and the main power wire should be no less than 2 ga. The V-8 Jeep's original wiring in the engine bay should already be beefier than normally found in most vehicles, so I'll guess that it may not need an upgrade. But you can clean up the connections. There is no sense talking about increasing alternator output with the wire you currently are using. And I didn't see you mention the word 'ground'...the wiring there is as critical as the power wire. With that much done, contact Alterstart for an alternator for your Jeep. ------------- Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 9:15 AM
stevdart: Thanks for the quick advice! about an hour before posting this i ordered a spool of 0 gauge (all six amplifiers = 1200rms / 4000max). i have a few more subs and amps in the garage that i plan on adding once i have fiberglassing down... i have been considering removing the .5 farads as i can detect a difference in long bass notes after the first second or so...not sure if solid "quick" bass is worth the barely audible (i can hear it but friends i demo the problem too cannot) difference from beginning to end of longer notes. thanks again!
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 9:22 AM
The extension of bass notes has to do with the enclosures, not the caps. And possible vehicle resonance. Something to work on (adjusting enclosure volume, adding more sound damping to vehicle) after you get your power needs met. And try to use the least number of amplifiers to power your audio. For every one you add, you are also adding heat and inefficiency.....which equates to lost power through heat dissipation. ------------- Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 9:25 AM
also just noted an error when i went down to my truck... correct wiring: 8g running from battery to MTX DIST (17 feet)
8g running from MTX DIST to JVC DIST (1.5 inches)
10g running from MTX DIST channel to each .5 farad
10g running from JVC DIST channel to each JVC amp
10g running from each .5 farad to each RF 301m
12g running from each 301m to each MTX
12g running from each JVC to infinity
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 7:02 PM
Stevdart Thanks for your help. After receiving valuable feedback from you and others i have come up with this plan. Is this the order you would address improvements? first: upgrade cable
second:install sound absorbtion material
third:bigger alternator (i already have a reply from 4alterstart.com...205amp for 250$)
fourth finish fiberglassing my garage/house/driveway/neighbors dog and build a 6 sub enclosure.
fifth: install proper midbass
sixth: upgrade components (including amps)
seventh: enjoy with a twist of lemon d ;-) this was the first install for me and a learning experience.
Over the last year i spent 6 months stacking speakers, cables, amps, and more cables in a closet. When no more would fit i spent 4 days solid installing it all. In the 6 months since i have filled that same closet with experiences, solutions, "lessons learned" and more ideas.
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 10:18 PM
The first 3 look good. But I recommend you rethink the way you intend to add amplifiers (per my previous post). Upgrade your front components as a priority if the sound is lacking, and done properly you should be enjoying great midbass with those. The damping in the front doors will make a huge impact in the midbass. Plan, plan, plan. Use the least amount of vehicle power draw to obtain the highest amount of watts with the least amount of power loss thru heat. I would look at reducing the 4 301m mono amps to one bigger amp.
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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 05, 2005 at 11:03 PM
stevdart: i am looking into that now. know anyone that could use a couple of 301m's? i think i will sell four and keep two (though may sell all) thanks for the advice...i am taking it...what a nightmare dealing with gain and crossover matching and the extra space/wires... though alot of people commented on them visual display of have the glowing red fosgate logo everywhere when you looked in the back at night!
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 3:25 AM
bass-end of project codename: Sloppy Joe 
To replace or not to replace; that is the question!
Posted By: supradude
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 6:40 AM
I agree with everything except buying from alterstart. If you do and have problems with it? I'll just say this, I hope you'll have better luck than me.
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'85 Toy
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 2:18 PM
Thanks...i am convinced. Head to Home Depot to grab sound absorbing material now and padding the whole jeep. Can you recommend a single large amp? With four DVC 10's @ 2ohm i have an RMS of 1600w (max of 3200w)
I want an amp that i can add two more DVC 10s.
So in the end i need an amp that can feed 2400w RMS (4800w max) That is the ideal amp. However i am only pushing each sub at 300w now so i could go as low as an amp only handling an RMS of 1800w for 6 subs. Any thoughts on these amps:
Orion 2500D
Orion XTreme Pro 2400
Rockford Fosgate T2000bd
Rockford Fosgate T3000bd
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 2:40 PM
Head to Home Depot to grab sound absorbing material now and padding the whole jeep. ?????? What kind of damping are you going to get at Home Depot?
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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 5:54 PM
goal was to locate some dense foam. after talking to the "foam aisle" guy he told me about something called "Torchlite" that is sold at roofing supply stores. (he explained that it is used to absorb sound in open space attics/roofs) it is the same material as Dynomat at about 30% the cost. tomorrow i am going to the local roofing store and picking some up...
Posted By: bullman96
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 8:00 PM
post how that material works when done. ill buy all four of those rockfords for $15 each so $60 all together. where do you live, price is negotiable
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Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 8:11 PM
They have the Orion 2500F at ikesound.com for a really good price, so you might want to check that out if you do decide to go with that amp.
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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 9:51 PM
bullman if full of it. I'll give you $20 apiece and pay for shipping. Save yourself from the opportunists!
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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: bullman96
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 10:22 PM
21 a piece with shipping and a complimentary pen
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Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
Posted By: bullman96
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 10:26 PM
as i said it is negotiable. just not sure what shape they are in. by tomorrow we will have 10 pages of bidding
-------------
Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: February 06, 2005 at 11:08 PM
$25 each + shipping. j/k
Paul
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 07, 2005 at 3:58 AM
funny! is that with or without the .5 farad RF cap i am including with each one... i am putting them up either tomorrow or Tues depending on which amp i buy to replace them and how long it will take to get here.... Any thoughts on the amps: Orion 2500D
ORION 2400 XTR
Zapco C2K-6.0X
Zapco REF1100.1
Diamond Audio D7402
MMats D2000.1
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 07, 2005 at 4:12 AM
invictuz wrote:
goal was to locate some dense foam. after talking to the "foam aisle" guy he told me about something called "Torchlite" that is sold at roofing supply stores. (he explained that it is used to absorb sound in open space attics/roofs)it is the same material as Dynomat at about 30% the cost. tomorrow i am going to the local roofing store and picking some up...
B-Quiet, Raamat, Dyanamat Extreme are tried-and-true performers for damping sheet metal. The idea is to stop vehicle resonance and rattles caused by low frequencies stressing the car's sheet metal. The material has to stick to the metal and stay pliable through extreme weather conditions. But then again, I haven't talked to the "foam aisle guy"...... lol ------------- Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 07, 2005 at 5:06 AM
yeah...i went to home depot just to look for some ideas on dampening my truck myself.... in a couple of LCD PC monitors i purchased there was a dense packing material that looked like that thick yellow spongy foam normally reserved for mother-in-laws sleep over bed. It was it appear to be in a thick black plastic bag with all the air removed. This left about an 3/4" thick, dense but pliable material. the "foam aisle" guy (i think he may also know insulation cuz he appeared to be in a hurry to deliver the block under his arm when i stopped him for 37 questions...) mentioned this "Torchlite" is applied with a hairdryer...weather resistant...and according to him made from the same material as Dynamat... guess i will know more in about 12 hours... david
Posted By: audiocableguy
Date Posted: February 07, 2005 at 7:14 AM
Before you get too crazy with advice from the Home Depot Guy, check to see if the materials have asbestos, fiberglass crystals or other carcinogenes (?) Don't forget you will be breathing the air inside your vehicle more directly than you would in a building. Most retardents used for buildings have fire protective quailites which will make you feel sick if constantly exposed. And last don't forget the fumes that are released, some of the glues really smell bad.
It may work in my not. I would rather spend a few extra bucks and buy what's been proven verses the mess of taking the vehicle apart again, stripe off the failed materials and then go out and buy the correct stuff and start over. The Home Depot Guy might be in the Gardening section next week, he might be an expert on mulch by then. Good Luck!
Posted By: invictuz
Date Posted: February 07, 2005 at 9:30 AM
i hear you... my goal in building up my jeep was to do it all myself...if i didnt know something i would learn...nothing like taking everything apart to motivate you into learning how things work together... so far i have done the electrical part this week is fiberglass and sound dampening (and ordering a new amp) its definately not about cutting corners or saving money ...if it were my girlfriend wouldn't have stormed out for two weeks when i brought her into the basement to check out all the new gear i had spread from wall to wall as a result of months of researching, buying in large quantity (box of 10 10" DVC subs, case of RF amps, 4 spools of a total 275' of cable, etc...) and was about to install...i thought she would be at least half as excited as me...first question: how much did you spend...when i answered she gave me a blank stare...started crying...then screaming...lesson learned here: never disagree with a woman who can reach a 1 farad capacitor and a box of fins removed from fosgate amps... i want to be able i say i did it all...dont get me wrong...quality is quality and a great setup is impressive...just more so when the owner says they did it themselves...
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