have you guys heard of RE?

re is a direct competitor of digital designs, both are awesome for spl applications and sq in the proper box.  if you are looking for some subs of this caliber and dont want to spend a sh!t load of cash you should check out digital designs sister company audio que.  you buy directly from the factory at insane prices.  a dd 9500 series sub costs between $619-679 depending on the size you want, audio que hd series subs which are actually supposed to be louder are from $229-269.  you can get 2 audio ques for less than one dd.  their web site is:

www.audioque.com

DD is a great SPL sub company, but they aren't that good for SQ.  It's like the MT sub from RE, it's pretty much an SPL only sub no matter what the company claims.  However RE does offer SQ subs as well.  So it all depends on what you are looking for. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Steven Kephart wrote:

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DD is a great SPL sub company, but they aren't that good for SQ.  It's like the MT sub from RE, it's pretty much an SPL only sub no matter what the company claims.  However RE does offer SQ subs as well.  So it all depends on what you are looking for. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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hmmm.... well i've got a 9917 in my surround at my house and it sounds pretty darn good, it actually sounds better than the maelstrom i replaced it with.  also, have you seen the 9100 series or i should say have you heard the 9100s? i also know of several top ranked  sq competitors who use dd, but maybe usaci judges just dont know what to listen for. ; )   

newtone wrote:

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Steven Kephart wrote:

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DD is a great SPL sub company, but they aren't that good for SQ.  It's like the MT sub from RE, it's pretty much an SPL only sub no matter what the company claims.  However RE does offer SQ subs as well.  So it all depends on what you are looking for. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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hmmm.... well i've got a 9917 in my surround at my house and it sounds pretty darn good, it actually sounds better than the maelstrom i replaced it with.  also, have you seen the 9100 series or i should say have you heard the 9100s? i also know of several top ranked  sq competitors who use dd, but maybe usaci judges just dont know what to listen for. ; )   

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Hmm, looks like they are doing a little better with that 9100.  Although the lack of specs on their website is kind of annoying.  But even still it looks like they are using an even hung motor like they used to, or a slightly overhung.  This means the BL curve of that thing will be VERY parabolic.  It looks like they are also using dual spiders which provides a VERY parabolic Cms curve.  Both of these translate into higher distortion.  The XXX made by RE uses our XBL^2 motor which provides a very linear BL curve.  It will have less distortion than any of those subs at any output level.  This means it will be "clearer" sounding like what the original poster was looking for.

BTW, to get an idea of what I mean by the above, check out this DUMAX report of a 9515: https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/DUMAX/DD9515b.pdf 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

can the human ear actualy pick up the miniscule difference in distortion at sub frequencies?  ive never owned a brahma but i only hear good things about them.  i actually got to hear scottie johnsons 9 brahma 15s at usaci finals, and that was pretty impressive.  maybe not sq, but dang it was loud ;).  oh and too, you need to update your DUMAX report, 9515b was 3 series of 9500s ago, they are at 9500e now.  vastly improved motor structures.  not sure about the bl curve, i believe most of their motor structures have the overhung coils to keep at least 8mil of the coil in the magnetic gap at all times.  is the directed/orion/ppi 'dual gap geometry' similar to your XBL2 motor design?  i guess all of this is moot point, the post was about REs, sorry bout going off on a tangent!

The distortions are more than miniscule, and very audible.  We have seen our motor reduce distortions from 10% on other drivers to below 1% on ours at the same output level.  But we believe in "hearing is believing" at Adire, so here's some audio files to let you hear the distortion differences:

https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Dan/XBL-IMD-Test.wav

https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Dan/UH-IMD-Test.wav

The first one is an XBL^2 driver playing IIRC 75 and 750 Hz tones, plus all the IMD produced from it.  The second is an underhung motor playing the same frequencies.  As you can tell the differences are quite audible, and underhung motors have much flatter BL curves than overhung (the most used motors on the market) or evenhung (what DD at least used to use).

Here at Adire we had two identical drivers built, one using our technology and one not.  We put these drivers into an enclosure with a switch so we can play music through them and show the differences.  If you are in the Seattle area ever, we can show you the demo so you can hear for yourself.  You seem like an intelligent guy.  Check out the technical section on our website for a great deal more information on the technology and how it compares to other types.

We actually don't use DUMAX anymore as it isn't as extensive as the Klippel machine.  So we have all our drivers Klippeled now.  And if DD is using an overhung motor, that coil has to be very long.  On the 9100 they were claiming 60mm of magnetic gap for the coil to be in.

DEI didn't invent that motor.  They are actually liscensing it out from a company called Step Technologies.  Your question kind of get's into a VERY touchy subject until our patent finally goes through.  But here's what my boss said about it:

"Well, any technology that simply can’t scale down to smaller drivers is dubious at best, in my book. We’re doing a 19mm tweeter with XBL – the Step Technologies approach (what DEI licensed) doesn’t scale down like that.

Not to mention that XBL² is a LOT cheaper to use and easier to implement. It’s why many companies that were approached by Step have decided to roll with XBL² - you can actually build on existing lines with no change in production steps.

Other than that, we’ll let the patent office say the rest. Suffice to say we applied nearly 18 months before Step Technologies – that alone says who really invented the concept!

Well, that’s about it for this edition of the Chalk Board! Keep the questions coming!

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio"

Actually the tangent was my fault.  But that is because RE is liscensing our motor for some of their products. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio