Nakamichi, New vs. Old?

Old Components vs. New Components.

What is the difference between these two components? Is one better then the other?

Thank you

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Also, which one of these subs is better?

https://www.shopping.com/xPF-Nakamichi_SP_W1200D

or

https://www.shopping.com/xPF-Nakamichi_SP_W124S

The S model handles slightly less power, but has 3Db greater sensitivity then the D model.

Also, I noticed that the D model has a paper cone whereas the S model has a poly/plastic cone. Now from what I've read, the paper cone is much more prone to distortion then the Plastic cone.. Is that the case here?

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Paper / poly isn't quite that simple.  There was a good discussion on this recently at diyaudio.com, I'll try to track it down if I have time later.

I think in the end the right material might depend on your listening habits.  Do you crank the volume often?  How on-axis will your midrange cone and tweeter be?  Do you value cleaner sound at higher volumes or smoother sound at lower volumes?  How large of a bandwidth are you asking the speaker to play?

My understanding of the primary differences that CAN exist between paper / poly  is this:

1)  Paper - distort sooner due to the material not being as rigid, but has smoother / not extreme break up modes

2)  Poly - harder material doesn't distort as easily when pushed, but has more extreme break up modes

DYohn, Haemphyst, Steven, is this broad generalization correct?  Have I identified the main issues?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

i dont listen to rap exclusively. i like to crank rock/electronic. I listen to Hip Hop/Electronic/Rock, and some other random stuff sometimes blues jazz

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I am curious, have you listened to either one of those components sets yet?

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?] How wrote:

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large of a bandwidth are you asking the speaker to play?

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I'm thinking it would do well in a prted enclosure tuned to ~30~35Hz with a low pass filter.cross over @ ~250~500 would work well with this sub.

This is going to be a SQ install with the ability to produce adequate SPL when needed. Probably in the range of ~105~115Db.

Here is the rest of the system:

HU = Nakamichi CD 500

Front speakers = Nakamichi 6 1/2 component

Rear speakers = Nakamichi 6x9s

I havn't decided on an amp for the components or the sub. Do you have any recommendations?

As for the break-up issue:

HIgh performance Loudspeakers wrote:

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The cone resonance modes may also be controlled by using a material that has a high internal damping. ALthough many cones are described as being made of paper, this material is more correctly specified as a dense felt, impregnated with a suitable stiffening agent. The loss factor may be varied at will, but it should be noted that the high frequency response extension will be strongly related to the amount of damping. With thermoplastic cones the polymer may be selected for its high damping coefficient (e.g. Bextrene, a polystyrene/neoprene mixture, or polypropylene with good self-damping) and may have an additional surface treatment or coating such as polyvinyl acetate.

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HIgh performance Loudspeakers wrote:

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The first breakup or resonant frequency fh can be described as
fh= 0.523* (T/Q)* sqrt(E/p
where T = thickness, a = piston radius, E = Young's modulas and p = density

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No, I have never heard either of those component sets. I was hoping for somebody here to give a little inpput on them.

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Don't you think anything over 120Hz is a little high for a sub low-pass x-over??

Paul

So, what was your conclusion on the breakup issue? 
Please include a link to where you copied the text from.
Also, I think the formula for fh was cut off somehow.
You should note that fh doesn't characterize the magnitude of the breakup.
What is the low pass cross on the nak xo?
6x9's in an SQ install? I don't think I've ever heard of that.
You said you don't listen to rap exclusively.  This means you do listen to it primarily, right?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

I asked because I have always respected Nak as producing wonderful decks and so so amps. I have yet to associate their speakers the same. This is not to say that those speakers will sound bad by any means, but using a speaker that you can listen to is very important.

I have listened to a limited number of nak speakers, but they were never particularly impressive.

I wonder if your motives for these speakers is to match the rest of system?

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kfr01] wrote:

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y understanding of the primary differences that CAN exist between paper / poly is this:

1) Paper - distort sooner due to the material not being as rigid, but has smoother / not extreme break up modes

2) Poly - harder material doesn't distort as easily when pushed, but has more extreme break up modes

DYohn, Haemphyst, Steven, is this broad generalization correct? Have I identified the main issues?

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Pretty close. Paper will usually have a lower Fs and lower efficiency (for identical construction and motor techniques) due to it's higher mass as well. At lower power levels (and this also depends on the driver, too) I WAY prefer paper for midbass and midrange. The breakup modes are far better controlled simply due to the flexibility of the cone.

If possible, use a paper (or pulp) driver for your midbass, and avoid titanium tweeters, unless you LIKE that ice-pick behind the eyes feeling...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

In my book Nakamichi makes great electronics and sub-standard speakers.  Some people like them, so I highly recomend you listen before purchasing blindly.

I agree (in general) with haemphyst above.  I like the sound of polymer or metal cone woofers, I appreciate their sound in the midrange but prefer paper cone or fabric domes, and anything other than a fabric dome or paper cone tweeter tends to be too harsh for my ears.

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Well, i jump in on this post. First off the one you had chosen under "Old components" is far better than the "new one". I have heard and owned both, and by far the first one is better. Tell you the truth, Nak's best component yet is out called the SP-S6500 and that is FANTASTIC. As for head units, reconsider that CD-500. It throws out higher distortion than any of the other Nak Units (<0.1 while others are <0.01). I'd consider the CD-400 or the CD-700ii if you had the cash. Nak 6x9's arent that hot, they are clean but provide 0 to minimal midbass. If you don't want midbass, then these are for you, if you rely on your bass coming from your woofers. When it comes down to woofers, the SPW1200D sub is far better. It is a DVC 6 ohm, while the other is a single 4. The 1200D can hold more power, hit harder, and still maintain beautiful sound quality. I would rig up three of those  badboys so you can get a 1 ohm load and run them off of a PA-8001, or  various other amps. Overall, it sounds like a great SQ system if you do it right. 

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"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.

kfr01] wrote:

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So, what was your conclusion on the breakup issue?
Please include a link to where you copied the text from.
Also, I think the formula for fh was cut off somehow.
You should note that fh doesn't characterize the magnitude of the breakup.
What is the low pass cross on the nak xo?
6x9's in an SQ install? I don't think I've ever heard of that.
You said you don't listen to rap exclusively. This means you do listen to it primarily, right?

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That quote came from the book "High Performance Loudspeakers"

What would you recommend instead of the 6x9s?

No, I rarely listen to rap, sorry for the confusion.

dwarren wrote:

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I wonder if your motives for these speakers is to match the rest of system?

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Yeah, I was trying to keep it all Nak, but it's obvious that I can't use all Nak and get the Best SQ :(

uthinkuknoaudio wrote:

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Well, i jump in on this post. First off the one you had chosen under "Old components" is far better than the "new one". I have heard and owned both, and by far the first one is better. Tell you the truth, Nak's best component yet is out called the SP-S6500 and that is FANTASTIC. As for head units, reconsider that CD-500. It throws out higher distortion than any of the other Nak Units (<0.1 while others are <0.01). I'd consider the CD-400 or the CD-700ii if you had the cash. Nak 6x9's arent that hot, they are clean but provide 0 to minimal midbass. If you don't want midbass, then these are for you, if you rely on your bass coming from your woofers. When it comes down to woofers, the SPW1200D sub is far better. It is a DVC 6 ohm, while the other is a single 4. The 1200D can hold more power, hit harder, and still maintain beautiful sound quality. I would rig up three of those badboys so you can get a 1 ohm load and run them off of a PA-8001, or various other amps. Overall, it sounds like a great SQ system if you do it right.

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Well, the CD-500 has MP3 capability. I know MP3s are by no means good at SQ, but it's just a nice feature. I think I can do without it to get better SQ. I guess I'll go with the Cd-400

What would you recommend instead of the Nak 6x9s?

What amp would you recommend that I use to power the sub(s)? I was thinking of using the Nak PA-8001, but I'm not really liking their amp reputation. I'm thinking that Mcintosh, Memphis, or something else would do better in a SQ install.

What Components would you recommend instead of the 6.5 Naks?


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I like your suggestion of the Mccintosh amp, Arc,  Helix, Brax and Audison are all well worth looking into  

As for other components, before a list of brands is thrown out, i would highly recommend listing to what you have available to you.

But I will start the list; Rainbow Audio, but stick with the soft dome tweeters.

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Well, for the components alone, I am willing to spend up to $400. THat should be enough to get some great components.

As to availability... The sky is the limit. I'll be ordering this stuff online.

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Well for components and SQ, the Nakamichi SP-S6500 is perfect. Great SQ, no let me refrase that, FANTASTIC SQ. As for an amp do drive those subs, 2 PA8001 bridged together at 1 ohm is perfect. I don't know what you have heard from them, but they deliver clean and strong power. I'd get comps for front and back instead of 6x9's. Can't hurt, only help. If you decide not to get the PA8001, i recommend the Cadence ZRS-10 or perhaps an G class MMATS amp. Both of those are fantastic, unless you really got cheese and want to upgrade to the ultimate, US Amps. A DE3000 would be perfect :)

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"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.

No speakers are perfect. Definitely not some car audio nakamichi component set.

You really should hear components before you buy.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Nak is done.  It's just leftovers now.

Not true not true. It isn't true yet. When i see no new Nak products released next year, i will believe you. As for the comps. they are great. I like them and i think u will too.

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"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.

I'm think that a Mcintosh amp would be better then the Nak Pa-2004. WHat do you think?

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yeah, just slightly, if you can seriously get a hold of some mcintosh gear I would highly recommend it as well as being a little jealous. The pa 2004 isn't really in the same league, irregardless of anyones obsessions.

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I like this Mcintosh amp
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=22&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1063&product=MCC602TM

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