Passive Crossover Help

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=50399
Printed Date: July 06, 2025 at 1:39 PM

Topic: Passive Crossover Help

Posted By: ArKineX
Subject: Passive Crossover Help
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:46 PM

Hello everyone! I have a question maybe you guys can help.

I have 2 sets of the Infinity Reference Component Sets (6000CS) which are the 6 1/2" Mids with the 1" Tweets. They come with a Passive Crossover with the set. The specs from their site say that it can handle 90W RMS.

Now what I don't know if they mean that "both" speakers (the mid and the tweet) combined can handle a total of 90W RMS or each (90W RMS for the Tweet and 90W RMS for the Mid)?

The reason I need to know this is because I am wanting to replace the 6 1/2" mids with some nicer 6 1/2" mids from Audiobauhn (AMD60Q) which have 200W RMS each.

If this is the case, how would I still be able to wire these up to the Passive Crossover without blowing the Tweets and still get great sound Quality from the Tweets at high volumes?

BTW, I believe the mids on the Infinities are 4 Ohms and the new Audiobahns are 3 Ohms.

Please and suggestions and tips will help!!! Thank you!

Replies:

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:50 PM

The 90 watt rating is for the SYSTEM - mid and tweeter combined, WITH the supplied crossover.

If you are thinking about changing the Infinity out for Audiobahn, you and I have VERY different ideas about what "nicer" is...

No, you cannot change the supplied woofer for a different woofer, ESPECIALLY one with a different nominal impedance.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:54 PM

Don't do it, for two reasons.

BeforeI get to the reasons, I'll answer your question. The power rating on a component set generally is for the system, meaning if it is used as designed with the crossover the system will handle 90 watts RMS. In your system this means the woofer and the crossover will handle 90 watts and the tweeter will handle about 10 watts. This is normal.

Now my reasons. First, never use a passive crossover designed for a specific speaker system with any other speaker. It will not work the same, especially if the speaker impedence is different. The sound could be significantly degraded and at the very least the crossover point will change.

Second, I doubt that any speaker from Audiobahn can compete sound quality wise with any speaker from Infinity. They are not in the same class, with Infinity being severeal notches higher on the quality scale. If all you are looking for is more power handling, fine, but don't expect the Audiobahn to sound nearly as good as the Infinity. Also, jumping up from 90 watts to 200 watts, assuming the speaker efficiency is the same, will net you about a 3db increase in SPL.

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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 4:56 PM

We (and I believe I can say "we") highly recommend you not replace the mids with another brand. Yes, including even Audiobahn. The reason is the crossover....and the crossover is also the reason the component set is rated for 90 watts. Crossovers are extremely driver-specific and you must use the drivers and crossover as a set. And when you change impedance, like from 4 to 3 ohm, the crossover functions at different frequencies. Which is a double no-no in your case.

For the power question, the tweeters will not take 90 watts, but you can supply 90 watts to the component set. You'll probably never in your life be in a situation where you will want to listen to a tweeter powered with 90 watts!

So, why do you believe the replacement mid is better than the mid included in the set?

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Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:12 PM

I agree with ALL of you in terms of what "nicer".

Infinity definitely has the best sound quality when compared to Audiobahn.

I meant nicer as in louder. 200W RMS is a hell of a lot louder than the 90W RMS.

I guess I'm aproaching this all wrong.

Let me explain what I'm trying to do:

I'm replacing my subs with a single Audiobahn 10" (AWES10P) 900W RMS. I currently have 2 12" Pioneer IMMP's (300W RMS Each). I'm switching these out because I want more trunk room since a dual sub box takes up a lot of room. I have a '97 Mitsubishi Mirage.

The only thing my sound lacks is good Hard hitting Mids. I have great bass and great sound clarity from the Infinity's.

I was thinking the easiest way was to replace the mids from the component set (which obviously is the wrong thing to do) with some other pair to handle a higher wattage to compliment the sound I was looking for.

So in the front I would like to keep my Infinity 6 1/2" components.

Rear Deck I would also like to keep the Infinities, but I need some thing that would be about to thump out some hard hitting mids.

And for the subs I told you already what I'm switching to.

Needs some with this setup please of guru's of car audio!!

Thank you all again for the help!

Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:16 PM

My Current Subs are these:

Pioneer 12" TS-W304C (Non-DVC)

Picture:

posted_image

Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:21 PM

ArKineX wrote:

I meant nicer as in louder. 200W RMS is a hell of a lot louder than the 90W RMS.
!

No, it's not. It all depends on the efficiency of the speaker. And like I said earlier, doubling amplifier power, all else being equal, will result in a 3db SPL increase. 3db is about 15% louder. 10db is twice as loud.

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Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 5:34 PM

Thank you for the Reply DYohn!

I always though Total Wattage RMS = louder.

Any recommendations on how I can tackle this system config?

Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 18, 2005 at 7:09 PM

More wattage = louder, often times yes, but there are many other factors to consider. What amplifier are you using - or planning to use - for the front mains?

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Posted By: zipdog
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 6:45 AM

Ar - been through what you are trying to do.
Skip the Audiobahns. 1st of all the are 2 f'n big and won't fit. 2nd they won't sound good as mids.
I have them in my rear as mid bass crossed over @ 250hz +/- and they sound fine, but when all these folks advise against something, well figure it out. I had already bought mine so SOL.
I would (have) put something like the mb Quart 164 (pce/rce) in the rear but I tried to budget myself. They come with a crossover and will give you what you are looking for. You can make them fit.
Don't know what you got for amps - but I would cross over the Infinities at 150ish hz to keep them clean and use the passive crossover that comes with the mb Quarts.
MOst midbass do not come w/crossovers that I have found.
You could also do it passively with capacitors and coils.
Some people will advise against putting mid bass in the rear but this is my 3rd time doing it - 2 honda civics and a toyota truck - and I have been very pleased. Not a competition system but you will feel it.
BTW the 1st 2 times were done totally passive with caps and coils with 2 channels of a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears and 2 channels for the sub.
It can be done.

Also, skip the Audiobahn sub if you didn't already buy it. You can prolly get a decent RF for the same money.
Hope this helps some.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-EacW5JasSbW/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=99000&I=049RCE164

Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:04 AM

Thank you all guys for your input!

First of all I'll tell you that my system is NOT a real powerhouse in terms of super high-quality components as my budget is not as good as some people so I had to make due with what I had. So please try your best not to give me the 3rd degree for purchasing what I did purchase.

My current system was built in 2001.

Head Unit = Blaupunkt San Jose MP41
posted_image

1 1 1/2 Farad Cap (This is for my Sub AMP...even though it is a little over kill). Go to the Link below for the picture and specs.
https://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=rocpowercap47v&store=&catid=309

1 1 Farad Cap (This is for my AMP that powers my Front and Rears). Go to this link for the picture and Specs:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000064066/qid=1108997138/br=1-12/ref=br_lf_e_12//104-4281141-2798355?v=glance&s=electronics&n=10981601

Sub AMP = (I know this amp sux, but itt has been doing its job) 1400W 2 Channel American Legacy. You can go here for the Specs: https://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=LA1490

Front & Rear AMP = (Another crappy AMP) Mobile Authority A804 4 Channel Amp. I have a picture of it here, but I have the Specs at the house somewhere since I cannot find it on the net any longer.
https://ecoustics.consumerreview.com/Channels/CarReview/images/products/Product_112866.jpg

I did have a Mobile Authority 3-3 Active Crossover, but I disconnected it as the crossover slope on the Sub Amp had a higher rating than the Active Crossover could provide (yeah it was a crappy Active).

As for Power and Ground Wires, I have 4 Gauge from the front to 8 gauge in the back trunk. I have it everything grounded in the trunk, but I still get ground noise (but the weird thing is that the Ground noise goes away once I remove the Reverse Light Fuse from the fuse box??).

MB Quarts are little too pricy for me, although they are high quality. I got a great discount at Fry's from a friend in order to get the Infinities at a good price.

BTW, the 2 12" Subs are in a Sealed Box (Seperate Chambers) with 1.25 cuft. airspace. The Box is an aftermarket box made by Durabox.

Can you guys help me out with this config and let me know what I should do to get the most out of my system?

I plan on upgrading the Sub AMP to this:

Sony XM-DS1600P5
https://www.monstermarketplace.com/Sony/Product/176/Landing/610/SonyXMDS1600P5/125/23/46

Along with the Audiobahn Sub, but I may change my mind after hearing that the Audiobahn is NOT the way to go. Audiobauhn has always looked to be one of the Manufactures that had some great products, but I never owned any. Rockford's has been at the top of my list for some time, but the price can get pretty high (I guess you get what you pay for).

I'm trying to get the best out of my system while still keeping the price of the components down much as possible, while still getting great wonderful sound (most everybody wants that I guess!!). =)

Thank you! Suggestions are always welcome!!

Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:19 AM

You would never in a million years require a cap for a mid-range amp. Anything you can eliminate in the power and/or signal path will clean up the overall install (like you found out with that MA unit). Get rid of that cap and I would say take the other cap out of the system, too, at least until you have set up everything and have it dialed in as well as it can be done.

For a decent low-priced subwoofer, I have had good results with Cerwin-Vega. 1.25 cu ft per chamber sealed will work for just about any sub, even if the manufacturer's specs call for a smaller air space.

Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:21 AM

I see. Well, your HU is nice but I'd get rid of both amps as soon as you can afford to and you probably don't need those caps. Sony is a step up from what you have now, but I cannot recomend Sony amps at all. For nearly the same price you can get an Alpine MRD-501 or a PPI PCX-1250 or an MTX 801 or any number of far better mono sub amps with accurate ratings that won't clip as soon as Sony and will last far longer. Sony ratings are about 100% overstated, and their amps are known for early death and for starting fires.

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Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 1:16 PM

Here is a Picture of My current power setup.

Please let me know your professional opinions.

Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 1:36 PM

My comments: get rid of the caps and ground the amps to the same point.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 2:28 PM

The reason I got the CAPS is because I had problems with my Battery kept draining (This system has been through 2 other batteries not including the one I'm using now). It seemed like I had to replace the Battery every year. Ever since I got this system built with the CAPS, I haven't had any problems (no dimming Headlights even when the bass hits). Had this new DieHard Gold Battery since 2003.

I got the CAPS as a suggestion from someone to solve some of my power problems.

If I remove the CAPS, will I run into probs again?

Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 2:29 PM

And Yes each time I replaced the Battery, they ran an alternator test on my car. It tested fine.

Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 2:56 PM

What's the car? Sounds like your alternator may have tested OK, but it simply does not have enough capacity. Upgrade your alternator.

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Posted By: ArKineX
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 3:18 PM

The Car is a 1997 Mitsubishi Mirage DE Coupe.

I've thought about upgrading the Alternator, but I do not know how much AMPS or what Voltage to get. And besides they are VERY expensive from the different places that I looked at (Stinger, etc.).

Is there another alternative? 2nd Battery with a Voltage Regulator?