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Benefits of a one-ohm connection

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=50452
Printed Date: May 17, 2024 at 7:32 PM


Topic: Benefits of a one-ohm connection

Posted By: n.sputnik
Subject: Benefits of a one-ohm connection
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 3:19 PM

Would someone please explaine to me the benefits of a one-ohm connection/capeble amp?

The only reason I can see would be so that you could connect more speakers to a single amp.  The volume you would get from one speaker would be no different that what your would get from three speakers connected in parallel to a single amp.  At one ohm, the amp has to work harder to power all three speakers, and the sound quality is not as good.  Is this correct?

it seems to me that if you want the highest possible SPL, you should have only one speaker connected to one amp, but have multiple sets of these (such as 3 amps and three speakers).



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Replies:

Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 3:40 PM
I hear high school girls these days like guys that run their amps into the ground. And capacitors. And chrome flames. woo hoo.

<sarcasm off>

1-ohm will allow competitors to push much more power to the subwoofer than 4-ohm based wattage class.

I feel there's little need to run 1-ohm in daily drivers and sq vehicles.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: n.sputnik
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 4:23 PM
So it is for a competition, to see who can push their amp close enough the the brink of causing to to blow or go into a protection mode without doing so?

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Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 5:03 PM
Competition is sometimes broken up into wattage groups. 1-300, 300-600, 600+. A competitor's wattage is usually the sum of each amplifier channel's rms rated power at 4ohms.

So, if a competitor can keep his total 4-ohm wattage under, say 300w - but really be pulling 1,000w at 1-ohm he has a huge advantage over others in his class.

If the amplifier is truely 1-ohm stable this won't be a problem.

But again, I don't really see much of a point for daily drivers.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: February 19, 2005 at 5:15 PM
Well, if you like distortion in the ~10~25% range, then I guess that would be a benefit of running at 1 Ohm.

I have also read somewhere that a 1 or 2 Ohm voice coil is actually more efficient then a 4 or 8 Ohm VC.

Anyway, just to throw a curve ball into this thread. Note that Bose amplifiers are capable of 1/2 Ohm. I know that Bose isn't considered good compared to aftermarket stuff, but they do make some pretty good OEM systems.

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Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 3:00 PM
I have my subs wired to 1-ohm, it was the easiest way to wire them. 1-ohm just offers more wiring options.

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Posted By: mikew04
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 3:15 PM
Would running at 1 ohm really hurt the SQ? specifically a dvc brahma running off of a JBL 600.1 at one ohm.




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 3:19 PM
It will have higher levels of distortion than at 4-ohms.

To my knowledge the JBL 600.1 is not rated 1 ohm stable; you could be shortening its usable life.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 3:26 PM

There is no benefit to running a system at one-ohm other than making loud noise.  SQ is degraded by a factor of about 10 (and on some amps by about 100) when dropping an amplifier's loading from 4 ohms to 1 ohm.  JBL's BP series is not rated at 1-ohm, although they will handle it as long as they are set up correctly.

If you are interested in SQ, I say never run with impedence less than 4 ohms on any amplifier.  I run my sub and my mid-bass at 8 ohms for this very reason.



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Posted By: mikew04
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 4:09 PM
The one i have says its 1 ohm stable in the manual, but says there is no power increase compared to 2 ohms. How would i wire it at 2 ohms if it has 2ohm dvc's?




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 4:17 PM
One speaker with 2-ohm DVC can only be wired for 4-ohms (series) or 1-ohm (parallel.)   I'd run it at 4-ohms, but it's your system.  To create a 2-ohm load you will need two of those speakers or a DVC 4-ohm model.

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Posted By: mikew04
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 4:44 PM
Thought that was the case. thanks for the info.




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 8:44 PM
No, with a 2OHM DVC, you can use a two channel amp, one to power each channel. You just have to be sure to feed each channel the same signal, or else distortion could be created

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Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: February 20, 2005 at 8:53 PM
Here you go, this is a Mcintosh amp that is rated down to 1 Ohm stable with <o.oo5% THD
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=22&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1063&product=MCC602TM
You probably won't be able to find it, but this is just my way of throwing a curve ball into this thread posted_image . So it is possible to run 1 Ohm stable at low distortion levels, but it will cost you an arm and a leg

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Posted By: mikew04
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:40 AM
The amp is a mono amp, but it does have two speaker outputs. could i wire each to a seperate voice coil? and if i could, will the amp see a 2ohm load?




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:54 AM
no, the amp still bridges internally so you will end up with a one ohm load. On the topic of one ohm, I have a HCCA 425 that I run at 1 ohm bridged on the front channels and at 1 ohm bridged on the rear channels with what seems to be no ill effects. I havent been able to notice and real audible difference in sound quality between wiring it in 4 ohms or 1 ohm but I run a  wall with 4 12's so I guess sq isnt really my main priority.

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Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 10:57 AM

Poormanq45 wrote:

No, with a 2OHM DVC, you can use a two channel amp, one to power each channel. You just have to be sure to feed each channel the same signal, or else distortion could be created

Which is exactly the same thing as wiring for 4-ohms and bridging a stereo amp.



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Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 12:25 PM
It should be noted that in competition systems the threshold of human hearing is also crossed where we can no longer hear SQ and differentiate it from good or bad sound. 1 ohm is just wrong for a SQ based system. The amplifiers ability to control the motion of the driver (damping factor) goes out the window. In the days before Class D (yes guys there were such amps) a 2channel Class AB was generally all we had to work with and if we were lucky, we also had some 8 ohm drivers around as well. Long live the Alpine 3545.

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Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 7:11 PM
I have my JBL 600.1 running at 1-ohm and I havent had any problems.

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Posted By: newtone
Date Posted: February 21, 2005 at 11:18 PM
i think the 'benefit' of running one ohm, or why alot of manf. produce amps that make power @ 1 ohm with the class d technology ,is that the amplifier actually has to produce less output voltage to achieve the same output power.  less voltage produced means less amperage needed, by using this tech.manufacturers have been able to make tons of money  by selling amps that produce 'impressive' output figures without having to convince the consumer buy another battery,  they can just sell them a capacitor with a big digital display instead.  in this marketing catagory i dont believe sq is in the equation, its class d tech, there isnt much sq in there even at 4 ohms.   there are of course amps which are exceptions to this, but they are few and far between, and if you can find good class ab amps stable to 1 ohm or less you will definately pay for them and their low thd and fabulous dampening factors.

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Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 8:30 AM

newtone wrote:

  less voltage produced means less amperage needed, by using this tech.manufacturers have been able to make tons of money  by selling amps that produce 'impressive' output figures without having to convince the consumer buy another battery,  they can just sell them a capacitor with a big digital display instead.

I beg to differ.  At lower voltage levels, current flow is vastly increased to create the same power.  Good old Ohm's Law; P=IE, or power = current flow times voltage.  For power to remain constant, the two factors must change inversly from one another.



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Posted By: newtone
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 10:40 AM

dang, your right againposted_image

looks like i should rethink those late night topics before i post 'em.



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Posted By: newtone
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 11:34 AM
newtone wrote:

dang, your right againposted_image

looks like i should rethink those late night topics before i post 'em.


oops, scratch that

here was my logic

if old school amp ab produces 625 watts at 4 ohms it needs to produce 50 volts output

if new amp d produces 625 watts at 1 ohm it needs to produce 25 volts output

which of these amps needs less current draw?



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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 9:04 PM
They both need the SAME amount of current IN, but the 1 ohm output will be twice the current OUT as the 4 ohm output. They are both 625 watts out...

The 4 ohm load will draw (as MUCH as) 12.5 amps
12.5A times 50.0v equals 625w
The 1 ohm load will draw (as MUCH as) 25.0 amps
25.0A times 25.0v equals 625w

Hope this helps...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 9:18 PM
Very helpful. Nice to see someone so succinctly explain something.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 9:51 PM

And, since it is current flow (and the resultant magnetic fields) that produces heat in an electrical conductor, the amplifier having to pass 25 amps will produce more than twice the waste heat as the one passing 12.5 amps.  Morre heat = increased resistance = less efficiency = more current draw = more heat.  More heat = more thermal stresses = less insulation resistance = more leakage current = shorter life expectency.  Higher current = operating closer to limits = lower S/N ratio  = crappier SQ.  Etc.



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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 10:23 PM

It looks like newtone means to contrast 4 ohms with a 60% efficient amp (A/B) against 1 ohm with a 90% efficient amp (D)....how does efficiency work into this as far as current draw?

And haemphyst, please bear with me...looking at your 4 ohm example, at 50 volts the amp will send 12.5 amps through the speaker wire.  Right?  But don't we figure amperage IN based on the car's 14 volt power supply?





Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 10:37 PM
In my example, I left out the efficiency aspect...

A/B amp - 625 out divided by 60% efficiency equals 1042 watts in or 72.3 amps @ 14.4v
Class D - 625 out divided by 90% efficiency equals 695 watts in or 48.3 amps @ 14.4v

The digital amp is 66.8% more efficient in converting watts to watts.

Yes, the Class D amp is quite a bit more efficient from the INPUT regard, but when looking at the load side, the differences go away. Ohm's law still applies for both of them. The OUTPUT efficiency is the same for both amps.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 11:14 PM

......the only benefit we might see here is the use of a more efficient class of amp as far as pull on the car's electrical system.......but a class D amp at 1 ohm is of no higher of quality in output than a (similar quality) A/B amp at 1 ohm.......and the sound quality would certainly benefit if the class D amp were loaded at 4 ohms.

So there is no "benefit of a 1 ohm connection" by suggesting the use of a different class of amp.

newtone wrote:

and if you can find good class ab amps stable to 1 ohm or less you will definately pay for them and their low thd and fabulous dampening factors.

You might pay for them but the fabulous numbers won't be there.  Because when you push even the great amps into high amperage output the THD and damping factors are gone....either through the roof or out the window.





Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 11:17 PM
In other words - there remains little justification for running at 1-ohm in a daily driver.

Great discussion guys.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 11:55 PM
Very great information guys!

stevdart wrote:

You might pay for them but the fabulous numbers won't be there. Because when you push even the great amps into high amperage output the THD and damping factors are gone....either through the roof or out the window.

So a Mcintosh, Memphis, US, Nakamichi, Hifonics, etc.. amps don't keep their SQ when loaded to thier lowest ohm rating?

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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 11:57 PM
Nakamichi does....just ask uthinkuknoaudio!




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: February 23, 2005 at 12:02 AM
Hmm.. I would ask him, but he seems a little bit biased towards Nak posted_image

I Was just asking if what you said applies to the really high end amps?

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Posted By: MBZ oe
Date Posted: February 23, 2005 at 8:38 PM

I am currently using a US Amps US2000 and I can't hear much of a difference between running my dual2ohm subs at 1ohm per sub or amp bridged with 2ohm total load. Sounds clean and clear.

BUUUUTTTTT, when I switched my older Kicker 1200.1 amps from 1 ohm to 4 ohm there was a huge difference in sound quality.

But my 1 US2000 cost more than both of my 1200.1's did. So as stated earlier with a high quality amp you will have much less distortion at  any load.

I personally won't run at 1ohm in my daily driver anymore just to keep further away from a short circuit.



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