Using active and passive crossovers

Hey all,

I'm still in the design phase of my project and have some questions about crossovers. My head unit gives me the ability to actively cross lows (20-200), mids band-pass (20-20K), and highs (1k-20k). My midrange and tweeter amp also allow active crossing between 45 and 5k high or low pass. Each driver will have its own channel. I also have a dedicated amp for mid-bass that has active crossing between 45 and 5k low pass and 10 - 10k high pass.

I'm trying to determine if it makes sense to use the passive crossover that comes with my a/d/s/ 346is component set. The crossovers are supposed to be "competition quality" whatever that means. I have the ability to remove these from the system, but would there be a benefit? Does it make sense to use both? i.e. Would the amp run more efficiently if I only sent the usable frequencies as determined by the passive crossover?



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I would actively x-over all my speakers.

send the low pass to a sub amp at ~60 Hz.

Send the band pass to the midbass amp at 60Hz and 350Hz.

Send the highpass to the 4 chennel amp and run highpass on the "rear" cannells for the mids at 350Hz and lowpass at 4KHz. Then run the "front" channel high pass to your tweets at 4KHz and highpass at 20KHz.

Eliminate the need for passive crossovers altogether. The only benifit from this is you have greater flexability and eliminate phase changes in the crossover. You also have the ability to run a steep ass slope if you want to.

Use my crossover points as a guideline. Because I said that's where they need to be does not mean that's where they need to be set. Play areound with the crossover points a little. Find where you think it sounds best.

Paul

To each his own, but I love the sound of passive crossovers on my mains and recomend using them.  If the a/d/s set came with passive crossovers, they are voice matched to the speakers and actually help create the sound of the components.  Crossovers are often more critical than the actual drivers... I say use the passives that came with the set, but use your active capability for everything else.

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If you wanted to, you CAN do it this way...

You HAVE the passive crossovers, keep 'em. If they are bi-wireable, you are set... DYohn likes the voicing of passives, where I prefer the dynamic capability of actives. You can have most of both.

Find the crossover point of the passives. It should be mentioned in the owners manual. Use your small amplifier (the one you bought for the tweeters), and set the crossover to JUST below that point... i.e. if the passive is set to 3500Hz, set your active at 3000Hz and up. Same goes for the mid-bass driver, only set the active crossover to just ABOVE the crossover point, say 4000Hz. This setup will allow you to get the dynamics (and level matching ability) of a good active crossover while still maintaining the voice of the passive crossover.

Where this will cause problems is if the crossover does NOT allow bi-wiring. If the crossover does not allow bi-wiring, you will be forced to: 1, forego the passive crossover and run all active or: 2, buy another pair of crossovers for your component system, and dedicate a passive to EACH driver in the system.

I just looked it up, and your crossovers DO allow bi-wiring and bi-amping, so you can have the best of both worlds. Use only ONE of the active crossovers in the components you have, don't try to stack 'em...

Just a suggestion...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

How can you tell if the crossovers are bi-ampable? I have a full set of Infinity Kappa components (5.25, 6.5) and would like to run the tweeters seperate from the mids because the tweets run about 30 watts less RMS than the mids and their peak is about the RMS of the mids.

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5.25" Components & 5x7 Coax Kappas w/Power Acoustik OV4-800
KAC 7252 powering 2 D3 8" Diamonds
KDC-MP728, KGC-4042A

jugga-nemo wrote:

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How can you tell if the crossovers are bi-ampable? I have a full set of Infinity Kappa components (5.25, 6.5) and would like to run the tweeters seperate from the mids because the tweets run about 30 watts less RMS than the mids and their peak is about the RMS of the mids.

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Don't worry about it. Your tweeters are getting nowhere NEAR the same amount of power your mids are. The included passive makes sure of that. However, if your passive crossover has 4 input terminals, AND 4 output terminals, chances are good they are bi-ampable or bi-wireable (which is NOT the same thing). If only two input terminals, they are NOT bi-wireable or bi-ampable. Generally speaking, though, one should ALWAYS consult the owners' manual supplied with the speaker systems.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

sorry to jump in on this thread, but it's funny that i need help on the same subject, and i have the ads 346is. anyways, i know im not getting the most out of my system, because i dont have the right knowledge. im hoping i can get some help here. i dont want to pay someone to "tune" it for me, because i want to learn how to do it myself.
i have an eclipse 55090 headunit and pa5422 amp running the components. on the amp i have the high and low pass switches off. obviously those are there to make things better, but i left them off because 1, i dont know what to set them to, and 2, i figured the component crossovers do the job for me (factory set to high pass). i know the headunit has some settings to play with also. basically i think im in the same boat as deocder, but he seems to be more knowledgable. im lost and hope i can find a tutorial on the subject. thanks

OK, so what is your question? Where do you want help? Fill us in a little bit and then we can start with your information...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Wow, I never thought about bi-wireing...I thought it was just for thoes who use frequency specific cable....lol

But it makes a lot of sense to wire them up like that. I am having a hard time visualizing it though. With one amp, bi-wire configuration uses the (+) from the amp to each positive on the crossovers woofer and tweeter inputs. And, (-) from the amp to each negative of the crossovers woofer and tweeter inputs....

Essentially I will be using two channels instead of one....I can't figure out how to wire it......help.

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I think I just figured it out. The amps are wired up the same way as you would a bi-amp configuration, however, the crossover is not set for bi-amp, it stays in parallel (bi-wire) mode.....

Is that right?

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Right high pass out from HU to high amp. Amp out plus and minus to right crossover, high input, plus and minus out to tweeter from high out of crossover...

Right mid pass out from HU to mid-bass amp. Amp out plus and minus to right crossover, low input, plus and minus out to mid-bass from low out of crossover...

Now do the same for the left channel.

Pretty simple. Really. ;)

I betcha the manual also mentions something about it...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

It did, thats how i figured it out. It doesn't say what to do specifically with two amps in a bi-wire configuration.....then I realized the position of the switch (bi-wire/parallel or bi-amp)....

Thanks for your help on this!

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sorry, about not being specific on the information i need. basically i dont know where to begin. i know im not getting the most out of my system and wanted some direction on how to tune it. i dont know how to use the high pass low pass features on the amp correctly. my component speakers in the front have their own crossovers. and my coaxils in the rear also use crossovers.
the headunit also has all kinds of EQ controls. i just need some direction on how to take advantage of all of this.

trdgts, don't you have user manuals with that equipment?  If not, you should be able to find them online.