Noise Ordinance

I was wondering what experience you guys have here with this problem. My town recently just passed a noise ordinance and I'm trying to find out the dB level and everything and so far I haven't been able to. From what I've heard it is roughly a night time enforced thing for sleeping sake and such, which I understand and is fine. During the day it'd have to be outrageous to get pulled over I'm betting, but around here I wouldn't be surprised. Just want some heads up from anyone experienced with the stupid ordinance.

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1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm

Here where I am its not a dB level but rather how many feet away from your car you can be heard....

I think if the officer can hear your stereo from 20 ft or something you are too loud. Which is complete BS....How many times have I been sitting at a stop light and from behind me all I can hear is the wide open exhaust of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle and they never get a noise violation....

I would go to the courthouse or ask a Police officer about the specifics...They will tell you ..

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Making the World A Louder Place

It depends where you live.  Here in California any stereo that can be heard AT ALL from 50 feet away is a violation.  Certain cities have tougher rules, some have specific db rules, and others have no laws at all.  Most areas specify the noise laws only apply between 10pm and 8am, but some cities (like San Jose CA where I live) have no such time restriction.  If the cop wants to ticket you they can and it's a $200 fine.  They impound your car after three noise tickets.

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Prattville, Alabama, If your music can be heard from 5 FEET away from the vehicle you can be TAKEN TO JAIL!! No ticket, handcuffs. They don't even have the option of giving you a ticket. Its either arrest you or leave you alone. Its also a $500 bond to get out. I have never seen anyone actualy be arrested, most of the time they will pull you over and warn you. I don't worry much cause I'm too old for the police to pick on. They only like to F**k with highschool kids.

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Nik
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I do not know where I got this from, but I used it and it DOES work. I used it after I found the article, applied the theories involved, and I was able to avoid the nasty stuff involved with a ticket. I liked it enough that I copied it, and I send it to other friends of mine when the situation happens to them, and it has helped two of them:


1) Check your local laws, know exactly what they say.

2) If pulled over, don't argue. Make known the fact that you are going to contest the violation, politely.

3) Ask how loud you were. "I could hear you 50 feet away." is almost certainly a "dismissal". It's on the state/county/city/township to prove how far away they were... and they have to be able to prove it.

4) If they do conduct a sound metering test, make sure the meter has been calibrated within a year (<--generally, a good rule of thumb), and have them prove it.

5) Being heard fifty feet away isn't against the law, as talking can be heard from fifty feet. There as to be a minimum dB that constitutes the sound violation. Did you break that minimum? Don't use test tones or burned cd's above 128kps.

6) Did you break the minimum? Don't get worried yet. Now you have them on discrimination, on the grounds of youth (most people who get pulled over for this are under the cop's age, and are probably a minor) and/or in my friends terminology, prejudice. Why prejudice? Have them test a Harley (or any bike with no baffles), a car with flowmasters(or loud pipes period), a neighbor's lawnmower (make it an old crusty one,lol), and see how loud they are at 50 feet. Chances are at least one of them will be as loud, if not louder than you.

7) Now do some research - how many Harleys (or any other type of motor vehicle) have been pulled over for the same violation? It's a matter of public record, so getting the files will be simple. Might cost you a litte money, but to prove a point and/or save your audio equipment, it's should be worth it. Chances are slim that you'll find many, if any at all. Now see how many violations have been issued for car stereos. There will probably be more of these. Now you see the discrimination based on prejudice? (Has almost nothing to do with a person's color, though in an extreme case, that could be used as well) The police were prejudiced against your stereo... especially since most cops own a Harley, (Yep... here in Bakersfield, they do - Haemphyst) hot rod or have a friend that does. Do you believe they will give themselves, friends or family member the same ticket for their ride?

8) Now you have a solid case, and if still convicted, you have a civil suit, if you wish to persue it. Chances are, if they haven't pulled over people for loud exhaust, tire noise (yep...listen to a set of boggers going down the road) or firing up their lawnmower at 6 am... you'll be let off, more than likely with a warning.

Now this isn't a "get off scott free" ticket. You still need to boom responsibly. My friend was pulled over going home from school at 11am (lunch..hehe). He was sitting a intersection from the school to a local highway. No homes, one gas station and easily 1/2 mile (2640 feet) to the actually school facility. He was about 600 feet from the school's new gym/pool house. The cop was leaving the gas station and pulled up behind him, so he was only about 25 feet from him.

So please don't go around at 10 pm thru your cul-de-sac with the system blaring. If you do that, you deserve the ticket.

Again, do some research... be responsible, and most of all, comsider the financial end of this arguement. It could get costly to fight this fight... weigh your options before you proceed.   He was able to do it for free due to his course of study, criminal law. of course alot of you are in college... use the library to it's fullest potential.

I am not an attorney, I have NO legal training, but I do know the laws, now, and how to use them to protect myself. This DOES NOT constitute legal advice, and neither I, nor THE12VOLT.COM accept any responsibility for your use or misuse of the information contained herein!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Why do people try to get out of a ticket? Its the law! Just adhere to it! Stop trying to get around the law!

You can talk about how many Harley's have been pulled over for there exhaust, but i'm will to bet not that many, just for the simple fact that THEY ARE WITHIN THE LAW!! Go figure? They have exhaust the law requires an exhaust, they have it. It's your little finger that turns the volume way up so you can be heard.

(kinda like the parents who are sueing the gun maker for making the gun who killed the son)

That is what is wrong with the world today! So many people try to get over on THE LAW, If more people would just use it the way you are suposed to and stop trying to get around it, we would not be paying some of the insurance that people pay now!

Before anybody starts complaning i have a descent system and i drive on an Army base alot where the rule is 25 ft and i have yet to get a ticket! WHY BECAUSE I KNOW THE LAW AND I TURN IT DOWN!

I like the disclaimers, haemphyst. 

I also like the suggestions, to some extent.  However, there are arguments on the other side and the outcome is far from clear. 

The difference - clear difference - with the Harley, lawn mower, old cars, trucks, etc., is that those devices do not have a volume control.  There is absolutely no burden on the owner of a stereo to turn his volume knob down a bit.  On the flip side - there would be a real financial, effort, and time burden on all of the other devices you mentioned to control their volume.  Moreover, the other devices serve some limited utility - your stereo serves absolutely zero utility.  Worse still, because of the variable nature of your car stereo, along with other facts like 2 15" woofers, windows rolled down, etc. -  it is very easy to argue that you _intend_ to make yourself heard.  You _intend_ to disturb the peace.  The mower of lawn certainly doesn't _intend_ to make noise - he intends to cut his damn grass.  The Harley man doesn't _intend_ to disturb others (arguably) he simply intends to transport himself from point A to point B.

It won't take a genius prosecutor to make these arguments.  The outcome - even if you come up with picture perfect research or seemingly airtight argument - is far from clear. 

Rule of thumb - next time you turn the volume knob up ask yourself why you're doing it?  Are you trying to impress others on the road?  Are you trying to grab attention?  If so, it is probably too loud and I frankly don't feel badly for you if you're pulled over and ticketed.  I highly doubt that people listening at reasonable personal listening levels with the windows rolled up get pulled over often.

And if you boom in my neighborhood after I fall asleep you should be pounded with a heavy hammer. 

I am also not an attorney and the above does not constitute legal advice.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

I have always had quite loud stereos. I also hate it when someone pulls up at a red light next to me hittin 140 Db. Its stupid. I always turn my radio down in neighborhoods and at red lights and such. I don't do it to make people look at me. And if you do you could probly find a much cheaper way to get attention. But still I think its ridiculous that my city will take a 16yo kid to JAIL because he was being a 16yo kid.

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Nik
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Chill, man... what we are talking about here DIRECTLY, is EQUAL TREATMENT under the law. Motor vehicle laws require exhausts, yes, and they all have them. SO F-ING WHAT?!? The local law says I can't make this much noise with my stereo, but why are they allowed to make WAY more noise than that with their exhaust? They should not be allowed to...

I DO adhere to the law, but when I got my ticket, the cop was just being a DICK, I was at a SHOW, with a permit, in the middle of the day, at a PUBLIC PARK, and EVERYBODY was doing the same thing I was doing... he just picked me out of the group... and YES he just picked me out of the group... I was NOT drinking, my completely unmodified car (no exhaust, not even RIMS) was NOT running. I was not even AT the car, I was 20 feet away, talking to a friend, in a group of about 15 people! He came and hunted me down.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

There is a HUGE difference in this case chuck... The law becomes too stingent at times and must be fought back. Now if they say between like 10/11PM to like 8 AM I can't do it, fine, I don't care, there is a VERY good reason for that. (Locally there is one strip of old folk homes that has problems with music at night like this, and that is completely logical, sleeping shouldn't be violated.) There are also areas that I understand my crude music shouldn't be heard(schools, though they can only really get you if you are off school property or drastically exceeding the property line of the school with the music, which the high school is well off the road, so then the school can provide issues. School=Private Property) But if I can't drive around with my music hitting hard like I like it in the middle of the day, that's bs. There is a hill climb quite often around this area, and that means high traffic of, sorry to say this, assaholic bikers. I have to turn my music up to hear OVER them when they are down the road, and when they accelerate it freaking hurts my ears! When they pull up next to me, I have to close my car to even attempt hearing the music. That is ridiculous, and part of my counter is going to be a loud system, you want a loud car, I'll have a loud car, we'll see who wins. And if I'm getting pulled over for it, they should be as well, but they won't, for the above reasons. Not fighting the law... Hmmm. How do you think we became an independent nation? Really, just think about that. Sometimes the law is too imposing and counter measures must be taken, I live in a small town, and work for the big delivery place, so some cops are willing to let me go on that account with a warning. But I also travel to other stupid annoying towns, and mine has some, where the cops are just dicks and are prejudice, plain and simple.

Boom responsibly, yes. But responsible is COMPLETELY up to the decision of the cop. Just like tinted windows, there is NO percentage guide, yet they can still issue a ticket. A local Police Officer(PO) told me that if I go dark, TO PROTECT MY EQUIPMENT, just to make sure to turn my dome light on at night and make sure all hands of everyone in the car is visible. I might still get the ticket, but odds are it'll let me off.

There is acceptable reasons for laws, yes, but there is just some stuff that is outrageous. They damn well better have a dB minimum in the books or I'm not gonna be drastically worried, because that doesn't hold worth crap.

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1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm

If we let 16 year old kids on the road then they should be held to the same standards as other drivers.

The license grants them the ability to drive but also vests with them the duty to obey laws related to their new ability.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

chucksnee wrote:

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Why do people try to get out of a ticket? Its the law! Just adhere to it! Stop trying to get around the law!

You can talk about how many Harley's have been pulled over for there exhaust, but i'm will to bet not that many, just for the simple fact that THEY ARE WITHIN THE LAW!! Go figure? They have exhaust the law requires an exhaust, they have it. It's your little finger that turns the volume way up so you can be heard.

(kinda like the parents who are sueing the gun maker for making the gun who killed the son)

That is what is wrong with the world today! So many people try to get over on THE LAW, If more people would just use it the way you are suposed to and stop trying to get around it, we would not be paying some of the insurance that people pay now!

Before anybody starts complaning i have a descent system and i drive on an Army base alot where the rule is 25 ft and i have yet to get a ticket! WHY BECAUSE I KNOW THE LAW AND I TURN IT DOWN!

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Here is why I choose to fight all tickets I get,
First off almost every Traffic law in some form or another in this country is archaic, they no longer serve a purpose as it relates to the 21st century
Cars have gotten faster, music is louder and pollution is here to stay and lawmakers just dont understand this

I also fight all of my tickets because I like to win and I hate our goverment its that simple

So theres my take on it

---Skold

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2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr

Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell

Just because cars have gotten faster doesn't mean you should drive faster. Its not safe and I think thats where most noise ordinance laws come from. Other than being a nusance, it is not safe to drive with it as loud as people do. I know someone will disagree, but you can't cocnentrate as much as you need to when the music is bluring your vision. Like I said, someone is gonna say "Yes I can." but people say the same thing about driving drunk. I do agree though that most traffic tickits are more about revenue than anything. Traffic cops have become armed tax collectors. We NEED people to fight tickits even if they deserve them, because if we all just sit back and say "sure why not osifer" we would end up with even more ridiculous laws.

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Nik
Jeeputer Progress
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Check it out.

I'm glad people like you don't rule the country.  "The situation is dangerous and ugly - let's not even try to fix it."

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

WOW... did *I* open it up... sh*t, I won't do THAT again LOL (or not LOL)

I didn't WANT to get into a big ol' political thing, here... I was just offering some tried advice...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

kfr01, who were you refering to? Is that what I said? Well I didn't mean to. I was tring to say its dangerous and ugly but in fixing it you can't allow "The Man" to do just whatever.

haemphyst, It's good adivce. And it struck up a very intersting conversation.

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Nik
Jeeputer Progress
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Check it out.

People like who? I'm assuming in reference to chuck...

Also, Nik, I'm not suggesting that I'm gonna go around with all 1100wRMS pumping in my subs and the 75wRMSx4 into my interiors. That's just, well, I like my hearing, and the way my ears are setup it is annoying enough to hear things over other noises. (Human voices are very complicated to hear for me if there is certain frequencies of sound or levels around it, like, impossible, yet in perfect silence I ehar them from a great distance.) Now if some little p***k pulls up acting like, sorry, a fool, then I'll make the point and be done. But for the most part my subs are for me, I like to feel that boom go through me.

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1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm

I was referring to skolds.  You snuck in there before I posted.  I was criticizing Skold's post and attitude.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Back to the topic at hand, there is no real noise violation here in Murfreesboro, TN. I have never heard of anyone being pulled over for being to loud.

Paul

kfr01] wrote:

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p>I was referring to skolds.  You snuck in there before I posted.  I was criticizing Skold's post and attitude.

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Im touched.. Im just a bitter old man thats been burned by the goverment to many times
but im more a The situation is dangerous and ugly lets just blow up even more

I have to fight always to the end even if im wrong, I never give up anything less and I would no longer be myself let alone human anymore

Its all good though, I might hate our goverment and officals but I still love the principle this country was founded on

Take it easy

--Skold

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2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr

Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell

I have to admit, its common sense to turn down the music when your in the middle of town...at least in central PA..cops out here are anal..so i could understand if they pull you over for being too loud..

but what i dont understand..

WHY THE HELL DO THEY GIVE YOU A CITATION FOR YOUR WINDOW TINT??? This happened to me this past Saturday and i had to take it off of my front windows (5% the whole way around) >:(...just wondering because i'm not bothering anybody by having my windows tinted...any ideas?

It is considered a security issue. Dark tint allows you to hide many things you might be doing in your car, like reaching for a weapon, disposing of evidence, etc. Police do not like to walk into something they cannot see all of, and they may feel uneasy. I understand these kinds of regulations. Nervous cops get people shot also, so it is a safety issue for YOU as well... I know I feel similarly when in traffic, and I cannot see the guy next to me in the Cadillac with the limo tinted windows all the way around... Is he a gang-banger, a drug dealer? I don't know, now do I?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

foltzy wrote:

---

but what i dont understand..

WHY THE HELL DO THEY GIVE YOU A CITATION FOR YOUR WINDOW TINT??? This happened to me this past Saturday and i had to take it off of my front windows (5% the whole way around) >:(...just wondering because i'm not bothering anybody by having my windows tinted...any ideas?

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I've never understood that one either, Im complete blackout all the way around on me and the wifes civic and never have been issued a ticket for it

This site lets you know the percentage for window tint https://www.tintdude.com/atoh.html

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2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr

Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell

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eh? what did you just say?

[QUOTE=Master Asylum]

People like who? I'm assuming in reference to chuck...

People that would rather try to go around the law than adhere to it! thats who i'm talking about!

And for the tint go ask the dead police officers wife why they WANT to beable to see everybody in the car.

I'm not singleing anybody out, but there are people out there that have ruined it for everybody! including loud music and window tint!

Now just deal with the law and get over it!

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eh? what did you just say?

This topic is going to continue to get more political. 

When it comes to public policy everyone has a different viewpoint.  This is what makes lawmaking so difficult. 

To protect some rights we, as a society, must encroach on others. 

How we value the rights on different sides of this balance is a function of all that we've personally experienced.  It is sometimes predictable and based on classic demographic indicators like age, sex, socio-economic status, location, etc.  It is many times unpredictable and based on less measurable indicia. 

In any event, since none of us are policy makers, I'm not sure that arguing about whether the law is right or wrong or too strict or not strict enough is going to go anywhere on a forum like this. 

I move that this topic be closed OR discussion move back to something more constructive for the everyday man visiting this forum.  i.e. "how to avoid getting caught and/or how to fight a ticket should you receive one."  Haemphyst's original post was very constructive I thought.  

That said, I'll respond to the assertion that these laws are "dumb."  It has much to do with my original post on this topic back on page 1.  Others have a right to the quiet enjoyment of their property.  You are encroaching on these rights when you blast your music.  Standard principles of public policy suggest that in forming laws the interests and burdens be balanced and weighed.  Here the interest in favor of the boomer is very very low.  He serves no public utility.  It does not encroach on his rights much to ask him to turn it down.  There is very little burden on the boomer; alas, it only takes a twist of the wrist.  On the other hand, when it can be avoided we, as a society, and when it doesn't involve First Amendment issues, value quite highly the right to the quiet enjoyment of personal property - especially in our homes. 

I, along with the lawmakers, see that this balance easily favors laws against excessive noise.  These laws are not, "dumb."  Rather, they are the result of a very thoughtful weighing process.  It would be foolish to ignore the policy issues at play here.  Whether you agree with the conclusion is another question - but please acknowledge the other side of the argument. 

Where the line should be drawn is another story.  The basic rationale behind the law, however, is most certainly not dumb.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

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eh? what did you just say?

Done, and thanks all for your input.

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