Sealed Back Line Array Drivers

any body have an  opinion on these drivers: https://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=167945&gemail=1

these really appealed to me because they were sealed, and an 150rms power handling at 8 ohms

how would these sound inside a car, along the back shelf? practical?

Eminance has been around FOREVER, building hardcore stuff.......these look cool, one hell of a 6.5.

Good for some "rear fill"

I agree.  The speaker you link to is a decent mid-range driver when used as intended: in a line-array.  Not something I'd recomend putting into a car, and especially not "along the back shelf." 

What is your intention and maybe we can recomend something.

well my ultimate intension is to find a close to full range driver that i can use in the car, not components, not a coaxial, that can take alot of punishment

i want to replace my kove coaxials essentially

imaging is not a main concern for me, i want something that is efficient at  8 ohms

what do u have in mind?

materials mean nothing to me. some of the most efficient drivers use paper cones and cloth surrounds,  i have a few paper cone drivers older than me that'll rip the skin off your face

Wiseguy wrote:

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i want something that is efficient at  8 ohms

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I know you're familiar with all I'm about to say but I'll put it out here just to make a clear point.   A speaker is rated at a certain impedance for specific applications, such as at 4 ohm for car audio and 8 ohm home audio, typical.  You of course can use 8 ohm drivers in the car and doing so will allow the amplifier to produce power at (normally) better specs.  The downside is that you are using only a portion of the available power, so a car amp that is rated 2 X 60 watts into 4 ohms will produce 2 X 30 watts into 8 ohms.  Efficiency doesn't factor in.  In order to use the car's power resources smarter, especially for back shelf speakers, using drivers rated at 4 ohms will allow your amp to produce power at its rated specs.  I think you would have to have very specific SQ intentions with certain up-front drivers to want to use the amp at an 8 ohm load.

The sound that comes from the rear should be very close to the same sound that comes from the front speakers so that the combination will blend in the car and create a "spot" of focus somewhere around the front seat occupants' heads.  A full-range driver, in order to produce something close to full range music, has to have some sort of way to produce both midbass and high freqs.  They usually have a whizzer cone in the center that will successfully reproduce the high freqs that the main cone will not.  There is no crossover involved with that concept, it's just because of the limitations inherent in cone sizes.  OEM speakers in cars, and tabletop radios, have used these whizzer cone full-range speakers since before I was born.

I don't think that's what you really want.  The sound will differ from the sound from your fronts.  What do you have in the front, anyway?

BTW, I was searching for a pic of a line-array and couldn't find a good example yet.  But picture a tall, narrow floor-standing speaker system sitting beside a big screen TV with about 10 or more speakers all the same size lined up and down it, packed real close together.

i have 8 ohm drivers up front

btw i know 8 ohm speakers on an amp will run at half the power, thats not really my concern

Why though?  What do you expect such a unit to add to your sound? 

Wiseguy said:  "my ultimate intension is to find a close to full range driver that i can use in the car, not components, not a coaxial, that can take alot of punishment"

One word.  Extremis. 

i knew this was goin to happen... ugh... never mind

"how would these sound inside a car, along the back shelf? practical?"

That was your question, Wiseguy.  I wasted more time on this than you did.

stevdart wrote:

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"how would these sound inside a car, along the back shelf? practical?"

That was your question, Wiseguy.  I wasted more time on this than you did.

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ok im sorry then i wont waste anymore of your time

just trying to find things to experiment with

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Clarion DXZ745MP
Kove ZX504
Kove AG1400
Kove 12" T3 Armageddon
Kove 6.5" Compaxials
WILDER 6.5" Pro-Audio Drivers
Custom Pre-amp

What did you mean by "i knew this was goin to happen... ugh... never mind."?

Wiseguy wrote:

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well my ultimate intension is to find a close to full range driver that i can use in the car, not components, not a coaxial, that can take alot of punishment

i want to replace my kove coaxials essentially

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Replacing a coaxial with a full-range is, well, not likely to sound better than the coaxial.  Besides, a coax IS a full-range speaker.  Also, depending on what you mean by "take a lot of punnishment" I doubt very much you'll find a speaker made for home use that will take the punishment of a car audio speaker.  Certainly not ones with as high power ratings as are common in car audio.

The Extremis was mentioned.  While this speaker is really remarkable and has a greatly extended frequency response over a standard 6.5" midrange, it is not really a full-range speaker and would need a tweeter for the top end.  The CSS WR125 4.5" is a full-range with better upper frequency response (although not the same kind of low end.)  Also, there are a couple of Tang-Band and Hi-Vi full ranges that are pretty remarkable.

None of these by themself is a drop-in replacement for a coaxial, however.

Wiseguy wrote:

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imaging is not a main concern for me, i want something that is efficient at  8 ohms

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OK, if imaging is not a concern, what is?  Loudness?  Again, car-audio dedicated drivers are probably a better bet.

Wiseguy wrote:

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what is a line array?

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Look at these.

https://www.slsloudspeakers.com/LS8695%20Line%20Array.htm

https://www.zalytron.com/Axon812.htm

https://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/Kuze3201/Kuze3201.html

And here's a discussion of their theory: https://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

thanks dyohn and everybody who replied,

i think ill just stick with my coaxials that i have in the rear for right now

Wiseguy, I get the impression that you come from a pro-sound background.  Is this true?  You seem to be looking for high efficiency and high power handling.  Just keep in mind that car audio is a completely different field.  Instead of a wide open area, you are in a confined and limited space.  What works well in one instance won't work in another.  Oddly enough line arrays are a perfect example of this as they have serious lobing issues in the near field.  Their near field is pretty large, and therefore doesn't work well in car audio or most home audio (in my experiences).  However as was mentioned above, they work great in pro sound where you want to fill as much space with sound.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Steven Kephart wrote:

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Wiseguy, I get the impression that you come from a pro-sound background.  Is this true?

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I guess you could say that... I personally have only be interested in the audio world for about three years. But my dad was an engineer for Universal Recording Studios before they closed their doors many years ago and Shure before they started a big layoff.

Steven Kephart wrote:

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You seem to be looking for high efficiency and high power handling.  Just keep in mind that car audio is a completely different field.  Instead of a wide open area, you are in a confined and limited space.  What works well in one instance won't work in another.  Oddly enough line arrays are a perfect example of this as they have serious lobing issues in the near field.  Their near field is pretty large, and therefore doesn't work well in car audio or most home audio (in my experiences). 

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I am using two pro audio drivers up front and they are killer. I just wanted to find a speaker that would not be damaged from subwoofer excursion in the rear. I saw that these were sealed so they were appealing. I didnt want to have to build encloures for my rear 6 1/2 Koves if I didn't have to, i tried using baffles and they were usesless. Unless you guys can recommend something else...

Those Fostex drivers look interesting... Any recommendations on those? Price range?

These look sick!!https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/FE-E-Sigma-Series.shtml

Here is the diagram for the recommended enclosure for one of those full-range speakers you mentioned, Wiseguy.  I believe this setup is quite different than what you imagine it to be.  I'm not convinced that a full-range speaker application is what you really want in the back shelf.  It sounds like your main concern is that the back of the rear shelf speakers will be bombarded with sound pressure from the subwoofer and will either be destroyed or the voicing will be obstructed.  A simple side-to-side fiberboard baffle is all you really need, such as those that are part of most sedans separating the rear shelf from the trunk.  You can easily construct one using a stiff fiberboard covered with lightweight carpet and solve the problem of the impeding sound waves.  The large baffle will act as a large enclosure and let any speaker perform as it should.  Then your choice of rear speakers can be made because you want a certain overall sound in the car as the decision should be made.

kfr01] wrote:

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hy not go with the same drivers you have in front though to obtain the same voicing?

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I wish it was that easy... they don't exist anymore. They haven't existed since the 1970's.

im mean even something like these

https://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=280-045

https://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=280-110

simple and cheap... just to experiment with