Print Page | Close Window

I dont care about SQ I want SPL How?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=54292
Printed Date: March 28, 2024 at 2:04 PM


Topic: I dont care about SQ I want SPL How?

Posted By: 95Pony
Subject: I dont care about SQ I want SPL How?
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 2:16 PM

Ok, sorry if this is already answered but you can never get enough opinions. First, I have a 95 mustang. I want really really loud SPL. Im not sure how strong the alternator is but im not too worried. (with a 12w7 and crossfire amp I got the usual headlight dimming) Mainly I plan to buy all equipment from eBay, or other net sites. So what should I get 2 15's, 4 10's brands? Ive been looking at sensitivity and noticed audiobahn immortal series has high sensitivity lvls. there subs run about 2k rms. To power it all I was thinking about 2 alphasonik pma1000's  check it out here https://sonicelectrnix.com/item_2802.html any other brands? my local audio supplier only sells alphasonik and autotek and wont hear anything against them or about any other brands. Im running right now 2 rockford 12" HE2's off a 1200 watt rms autotek amp (for sale on ebay right now check it out! https://cgi.ebay.com/dll?ViewItem&category=3293&item=5767111859&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) thanks for tips.



Replies:

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 2:46 PM
No offence dude, but you are asking industry experts for their advice so you can run out and buy product from some unauthorized e-tailer............ ask these questions to the e-tailer and see how far you get or is advice something that you think you don't need to pay for. I imagine that the non industry people will give you some advice, take it for what it is. It is up to you to find out if it is good advice or not. My advice, support the local shop who has the advice to support you.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 4:36 PM
SPL is about box design and setting up the proper system for the car.   In a trunk its gonna be hard.     All I can say is for true SPL look into having a box made or plan to test out quite a few designs.     Alphasonik and aidiobahn are the same company when you look into it.   and nither one was at usaci finals with the exception of one vehicle running 10 or so of the new 5000 watt rack mount amps.     15's are overrated,   but if you want loud sloppy bass thats the way to go.     If you looking to go rule some shows your not going to do it with the equipment listed,   as far as pounding out your neighbors, sure.     I know a guy with a 95 or 96 mustang with 2 15 inch mtx 8000's and a 8100d amp,    its loud but actuall pressure is a joke.     You really need to visit a local small store to really start designing a SPL system

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 5:37 PM
well, forbidden, excuse me for not wanting to pay three times the amount on some equipment by going to my divine local shop. If i can get the same sub for 400 dollars less, is that really so wrong? And i dont think everyone one this forum is an "industry expert" either for that much. I am not planning on entering competitions I just want something loud. I dont need top off the line equipment running me 1000's of dollars. And the reason I wanted to look into 15 is because I want to hit those low frequencies well. Unless your telling me theres no difference between a 10 and a 15 in low frequency reponse. (could be I dont know just something ive heard) As for the enclosure, I have experince in fiberglass and wooden enclosure and can make that to specs. Still looking for some brands....




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 5:56 PM

Not trying to piss in your cornflakes dude, just see it from our side of the fence is all. There are just too many ways to get burned by an e-tailer and sadly it is becoming a bigger problem every day. An e-tailer cannot answer your question that you just asked but I can.

There are many people on this forum that are not industry experts but for the ones that have been around long enough on it to learn from us, can also answer this question as well. There are also those that you have no idea who they are and what basis they are making their judgements on. This is very dangerous on your part. If you take the advice, make sure that it is credible.

What is wrong is for you to find ut, hopefully you don't but when you do, you will understand further.

PS -  the free advice column...... a 4" can hit the same low frequencies as a 15", it just cannot do it with the same amplitude. So to answer your question, there is no difference as well between a 10" and 15" in low frequency response goes except for the amplitude (or how loud the subs ability to play that low frequency is). Bigger does not mean better, not by a long shot. Now that I have answered this, do you think that a e-tailer would explain this to you or would he sell you what you want insted of what you need and then have the basis to back it up?



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 6:24 PM

95pony as a newbie you should hang around a while before you start slamming the regulars.

Forbidden is of course correct.  Woofer size has nothing to do with how deep a speaker can play.  And to the larger point, if you buy from an on-line non-authorized seller, expecially off eBay, you do so at your own risk.  If you know what you're doing it can be ok, or if you are able to spend money on gear that may be trash.  But if you are a beginner (and you appear to be) or if you have limited resources, it is dangerous - assuming you want your gear to last longer than this weekend.

The only thing I can recomend in the eBay link you posted is the Autotek amp, and maybe the wires.  But I cannot recomend you buy it from an eBay seller.  Go shopping in your home town, support your local professionals, and you may be surprised what you can get for your money.



-------------
Support the12volt.com




Posted By: oonikfraleyoo
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 7:06 PM
The part about no "industry experts" on this forum, Dude you are very wrong there. Stick around and get learned. These guys know what they are talking about.

-------------
Nik
Jeeputer Progress
[|||||||||||-] 90%
Check it out.




Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 9:43 PM
Back to the topic at hand, ,how much flow do you have to drop? With a figure we can then reccomend products that fit that price range.  But for a good spl woofer your going to be looking at spending around $400 each.  Basically the real subs on the market today are not available on the internet.  Look into Adire Audio, Resonant Engineering, Image Dynamics, MTX, JL, and yeahh...Kicker L7..they sound like poop tho.

-------------
2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 10:25 PM
OK, you dont wanna spend oodles of money but want loud and dont care about SQ. Fair enough. You wanted opinions so I am gonna give to you, and you may not like em. Audiobahn is crap. plain simple statement. Crap. They do not have any kinda lasting power on a whole, and are completly inflated as to their specs. If you want something thats realy loud then thats fine. Last year I ran 4 cheap ass pioneer tsw305dvc 12 inch subs and won 3 competitions and did so running up against kicker, eclipse, JL and rockford just to name a few. I also wasted a couple of audiobahn systems if it mattered. Now the reason why I was able to do this was because I took subs that were fairly inexpensive, ran a legit 400 watts rms to each one, spent alot of time designing my box to get it tuned and positions exactly how I wanted it and knew how to compete. I wanted to prove that people could compete using low end gear because the comps in my area have really declined in the last few years and part of the reason is because people dont want to spend the money on big dollar systems because our car theft rate per cap. is so high. So after saying that, I think that 4 tens could be louder than 2 15's, I think that with the room you have availible to you in that trunk I would proballly be looking towards the 2 15's. Now as for brand goes, I really like MTX stuff at just about any price point, pick the series to match the budget. I also hear good things about the adire stuff although the avalibility is very limited , the Kicker L7's are good for spl, I feel the W7 is  a good sq sub but would use the MTX 9500 over the W7 for spl any day of the week. The Alpine type R isnt bad and Eclipse make some nice gear as well. All those subs I just mentioned will only preform well if the two following criteria are met. The NEED to be in the correct box and they NEED the correct amplifiers driving them. I was almost brought to tears when I saw a pair of older Boston Pro 12's running off a visonik amp the other day. I asked him what he was doing and he replies "what do you mean, that amp is 1200 watts, more than what they subs can handle". That customer has been sacked (monty python reference:)). You need real power ot drive real subs to get real spl. As I said box is imperitive as well, not only proper size but proper venting and proper bracing to get the full deal. Why dont you come back and post what kinda scratch you are willing to drop and if you are dedicated to buying from e-tailers then I can probally look around for you and see what I can find.

-------------
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 10:29 PM

first of all, i'm with these guys, buying equipment from a competent shop and buying sh*t off ebay or whatever are completly different, etailers sell refurb, damaged, or old equipment, they have no knowlege and usually just buy out old company's stock from 3 years ago, and sell it at 5 dollors over cost, you will never get any advice from them, nor will you get anything if you actually need to warentee something, it's people that are more worried about saving 20 bucks that ruin this whole bussiness for people who take it seriously,,

now by saying you don't care about sq, you oviously want something that sounds like ass, but you can hear the buzz of your trunk rattle for about a mile right? think that's really going to impress anyone over 13?,, sorry.. anyways, if that's all you want, get audiobahn, chrome up the ass, sounds like crap, but it'll thud, if you want to get serious, look around at some shops, find a dealer who will sell you a good set of subs, and a box that actually goes with them, instead of buying subs ment for a 1 cube box and then having your neighbor build a 10 cube one out of plywood and drywall... look for a respectable brand, find a dealer that is licenced with them, they will get you a better deal.. don't go to flee markets, and get a few components that match each other, you will be happier with a system that sounds good, because a "loud" system made up of junk, will not impress you for long, you need something that acutally hits like its suposed to,,, If you end up getting junk you'll be one of the kids that listens to that ONE song he found that makes his system sound half way decent, and when your still listning to a 5 year old lil john song because everything else distorts, you'll wish you hadn't wasted your money,, my .02



-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: oldsbravo5
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 10:47 PM
Captanham wrote:

If you end up getting junk you'll be one of the kids that listens to that ONE song he found that makes his system sound half way decent, and when your still listning to a 5 year old lil john song because everything else distorts, you'll wish you hadn't wasted your money,, my .02


Wow.  That describes EVERYONE at my damn high school.  People think I'm "mean" when I talk smack about their systems.  But I don't think you have a good system until every song on a CD sounds just as good as the last and your system sounds good throughout every genre. 

I'm all about SQ, and it seems like all the others are about running 4 Audiobahns in their car with the stock 3.25's in the dash and stock 4 by 6's or whatever in the rear.  It gets frusturating when people think this is how a system should be.  I don't know about anyone else, but I like to hear what the song is about instead of just distorted basslines and beats. 

I have yet to hear a system that wouldn't be sufficient (in my opinion) with just one 10" running at about 250 watts RMS and 2 sets of components at 60-80 watts RMS. 

But, this is just me. 



-------------
Bravadas are cool




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 8:12 AM
Yo Forbidden:

hehe I think your kinda funny. I remember the other day when you shutdown a thread b/c someone knew where to buy Focal stuff...

"Do you think advice is something you shouldn't have to pay for?"

Actually, no. Among the 'advice' I've gotten from my bricks-and-mortar JL dealer:
1)Two 8-ohm subs in parallel wire to 2-ohms
2)Yellow Tops can't start your car
3)A single 13W6 will 'blow away' 2xPerfect 12's.

Those last two pieces of 'advice' cost me a total of $700. Should I just be happy that I 'paid for advice?' Since I replaced my Red with a Yellow I haven't had a single bass-note cut out, my 13W6 practically wispers its so quiet and underwhelming.. and don't even get me started on that stupid sales guy that thinks 8-ohmsx2=2ohms at the amp.

Nevermind the fact that all the while the people at this place are *rude* and *nasty* .... I had a guy tell me move my car away from the front of the shop the other day *because* it wasn't nice enough to be in front of his shop. I really wanted to apologize for spending $4500 in his store over the last 2 years... my Toyota Corolla wasn't good enough for his parking lot...

You think people should just have to pay for this so you can feel ever so slightly secure about *your* income?

I had a guy the other day tell me a set of Alpine TypeR 5.25 comps would run me $260. For that price I can TWO pairs online AND a cheapo set of coaxials. Who would care about 'warranty' when I can get a set with ready available replcement parts for the same price?

Oh yea, the divine shop's advice is worth $150? More than the speaker?

<ECONOMIC REALITY> e-tailers will continue to thrive and indeed prosper, especially when retailers, IMO, frequently know about as much about their product as a typical car salesman and expect to be compensated commensuratly...
If you could have car delivered by post NO ONE would shop at car dealers either.
You almost sound like record execs and their goofy obsession with control and DRM... you need to appreciate that technology is changing your business. Deal with it or die. </ECONOMIC REALITY>

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 8:28 AM

There will always be bad shops, sedate.  Sounds to me like you spent $4500 at a bad shop run by non-professionals.  Sorry about that, and I hope you take your future business elsewhere.

But your bad experience is amplified 100X with on-line etailers and eBay scam artists and hustlers.  There are far, far more idiots and rip off artists on line than you will find on the ground.  Anyone with access to a computer and a line on refurb or factory second gear can sell crap on eBay or set up a web site.  It takes a lot more committment and money to open a shop, and the monthly overhead is far higher.  So yes, sometimes prices are higher too.

My advice remains the same: buy your gear from only authorized dealers (including if you must AUTHORIZED on-line dealers.)  A professional, experienced human being who can look at your car and work with you is ALWAYS prefereable to text on a screen (including from this forum!) and yes, many times it IS worth $150 to get the RIGHT advice and guidance.  You can always get screwed and misled, sure, and some salesmen (especially at "big box" stores) know about as much about stereo as they do about geko mating habits.  Be selective and talk to others to choose your shop.

If you don't care about warrany and if you are driven purely by cost, do what ever feels right to you.  Buy two sets of speakers so you have a spare.  <shrug> But when you are ready to get serious find a GOOD shop and work with them.

And forbidden didn't lock the Focal thread, I did.



-------------
Support the12volt.com




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 11:29 AM

There are obviously two schools of thought on this issue.  I think it is a mistake to support either too strongly.  As Sedate points out, buying from an authorized retailer will sometimes be a rip off.  As DYohn points out, buying online will sometimes be a ripoff. 

The key word is sometimes.   Sometimes the inverse will be true.  Sometimes buying authorized is the only way to go.  Sometimes buying online can give a person on an extreme budget some ability to buy better equipment.

My point:  the INDIVIDUAL BUYER needs to make this decision.  He should make it based on as much information as possible.  This is true regardless of whether the individual buys online or not.  Part of this information is information about the risks involved with buying online.  However, once an individual buyer KNOWS the risks, HE should make the decision for himself whether it is worth it to buy online or not.  My hope for posters on this forum:  Please tell people wanting to buy online about the very real risks involved.  But, please don't shun them for shopping online with an eye on their wallet.  Since when was seeking the most efficient result a damning activity?  Our economy THRIVES on this valuable and productive process.

Personally, I'll be damned if I'm going to pay the crap dealers in my area for advice.  I bought and had my deck installed authorized because I wanted Eclipse's 3-year warranty and support.  I personally think this is the only way I'd ever buy an Eclipse product.  However, much of the rest of my equipment I purchased online.  Was it refurbished?  Maybe, who knows.  I don't care.  Does it work like new?  Yes.  Did I save a boat load of money in the process, allowing my dollar to go further?  Yes.  Might I have gotten screwed?  Sure.  Did I consider that before ordering?  You bet. 

Points:

Authorized fans:  Don't damn someone because they choose to buy online from unauthorized dealers.  Buying and even selling unauthorized products online isn't criminal.  Might some middle man have broken a contract?  Sure.  Should the buyer who can save a few bucks be damned for taking advantage of a deal?  No. 

On that note, https://www.woofersetc.com/ and https://www.acaraudio.com/ both sell unauthorized Focal products.  DYohn, I understand your support of authorized dealers, but shouldn't Focal be the ones policing their dealer contracts?  Hell, the continued existence of these two retailers as sellers of Focal product leads me to believe that (a) Focal flat out doesn't care or (b) Focal doesn't mind limited unauthorized reselling because it can help clear inventory.   Shouldn't we, as members of this forum, support the dissemination of as much (non-illegal) knowledge as possible so the12volt's users can make buying decisions with the most information - leading to the most efficient result? 

Online fans:  By the same token, the other school shouldn't damn people who 100% support authorized retailers.  In many cases the retailer IS honest and knowledgeable, and can add significant value.



-------------
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 11:42 AM
Sedate, I feel for you. Rest assured and I think that you know this already, at my store all people are judged equal and treated with the same respect. It really sounds like the place you chose to do business has either lost respect for a valued customer and hired boneheads to deal with the customers. I would be pissed if I was in your shoes as well. Don't let the wrong doings of one shop ruin what other shops like the one that I have built up to be, a great experience for the customer with great customer service and knowledge first and foremost. My advice is free and my resume is posted for all to see at any time. Hope you understand things from my side of the fence dude.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 12:29 PM
Well this thread seems to have gotten wayyyy off topic. But I suppose ill add my 2 cents, for what its worth.

I bought my subs from a local dealer, I also got the box and wiring from them. The people who run the shop are great, very helpful and I stop by there from time to time just to talk.

My friend just put a system in his truck the other day; he bought the subs box and wiring from the same shop (I sold him my old memphis amp). One of the guys helped him set the whole thing up, they were working on the install for about three hours (he has the premium sound system and is using the stock deck so it took a little more time) the guy who helped him works sales and gets payed on commission, so he was sacrificing his own time to help my friend out. I will also be buying my new Eclipse HU from this shop.

This shop is about a 40 minute drive from my house, but I always go out there as opposed to a shop that is closer to my house. I have had problems with that shop, and so have friends of mine, I will drive the extra distance to get better service and friendlier people.

On the other hand I bought my amp from sounddomain because the price was unbeatable. I have also bought 2 amps, and a set of 6x9s from a flea market, all of which are still working perfectly. I will be buying a set of component speakers from an authorized "e-tailer" in the coming months, again because of price.

The shop owners and industry insiders on here have to realize that many of us, especially us young people simply dont have the money to buy everything from a local shop. All the car audio beginners and enthusiasts who are not in the industry have to realize that many shops have been seeing depleting sales and some have even had to close mainly because they have been losing so much business to "e-tailers".

One last thing to the senior members of this board. If someone asks a question about buying a products *cough*Focal*cough* online, you can tell them that the products will not have Focals warranty, or just not post at all, but please dont lock the post! I was a little angry when I was trying to help someone out and my post was immediately deleted and the topic locked. Also, it really isnt fair to the person that started this post that it was systematically hijacked and turned into a internet vs. local shop debate. Just because he wants to buy online doesnt mean you should jump down his throat.

That is all.


-------------




Posted By: uthinkuknoaudio
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 4:40 PM
Well if SPL is all you care about, let it sound like garbage. I can recommend the perfect company for you... its called PYLE. Get 8 of the 18" SUPER Pro woofers off of ebay or another online retailer for under $200. That will score you some SPL numbers, if you can stand how it sounds.... For amps, nothing better than pyramid....

-------------
"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.




Posted By: joebobcletusjr
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 5:27 PM

oonikfraleyoo wrote:

The part about no "industry experts" on this forum, Dude you are very wrong there. Stick around and get learned. These guys know what they are talking about.

I definetely agree with NIK, look at the people with at least 400 or more posts here, those are the people that have been here since the beginning, or at least are consistently checking back to the12volt to find new ways to offer their expertise.

In fact some of the real experts have replied to this particular thread, so just look out for posts from DYohn, oonikfraleyoo, forbidden, Alpine Guy, and there are a lot more out there, sorry if I missed anyone, but you can learn a lot from these people.  They are the real experts even if none of them had ever touched a car, they still could have learned a lot from reading other posts.

I am not in any way saying that I am an expert, after all I have only been a part of the12volt for a few months, and I have a long way to go before i can claim to know as much as some of the other people here.  Stick around, ignore some of the crap that you may get for posting a question that someone may think is stupid, and try your best to see it from the perspective of those who come here that work in those "over-priced" (what worth can you put on good, reliable information that's not full of lies to get you to buy something) authorzed dealers that won't just tell you what you want to hear, they will tell you the facts about the products you are considering buying from them; if you don't buy it from them, then don't expect too much.



-------------
eh? what did you just say?




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 10:56 PM
For the purpose of answering the original poster's question (if he hasn't slit his wrists or jumped from a tall building by now).....I agree with uthinkuknoaudio.

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 11:27 PM
wow. that was really nice. Instead of getting adviced i got my "manhood"  verbally stomped on. I am sorry if you own a local shop and i offended you. If i can get 1 12" sub for 179 from an "e-tailer" or the same sub from my local shop for 600, what would i do? well because im 17 and i work at mcdonalds and get 5.30 an hour, I can only buy from the e-tailer..................... So, if i buy some stuff from a friend am i wrong? if i buy it from a garage sale am i wrong? Now i got a couple of people who gave me some advice. a lot of contradicting advice too. no i do not feel the need to compete or brag that i spent more money on my system than you. no i dont want it to sound like sh*t either. and by the way, was forbidden a "newbie" when he posted his first post? just because it was only his first does that mean he didnt know anything when he did it? and as for the low fequency thing i understand stand a 10 can produce a low frequency but i need to strain my ears to hear it, of course that is why i thought of 15's i want to HEAR it and FEEL it. So all you shop owners or rich 30 year olds who want to bash on a broke kid, keep it up...




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 21, 2005 at 11:30 PM

by the way the people in the fiberglass and interiors forum didnt slit my throat when i asked them how i could learn how to paint better instead of support my local paint shop.





Posted By: boardinbum
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 12:02 AM
95Pony, I feel you. I just did my first system, and did so on a very tight budget. I bought all parts for Crutchfield and ikesound.com. It was good for a week, then my amp broke (got it from IkeSound). I've been trying to contact them over and over to get one replaced. I've had bad luck this time around. But to be honest, even though I've lost this time, I'll probably buy another amp online simply because there are some bad dealers, but I've had a lot more good luck than bad with online buying/selling. I too would like to go in to my local shop and drop $500 on an amp I can get for $200 online, but I just don't have the money to do it. In my opinion, for the money you can get it for online, the MTX 7500-9500 series are wonderful. You build the right box (great specs on box on MTX's website), and you'll have SPL coming out your ass. But it doesn't completely stomp out any SQ. It'll definitely sound nice [not amazing, but no where near 18" Pyles running off a Pyramid] too.




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 12:41 AM
i think you will be more than happy with a pair of Alpine Type Rs or a pair of Kicker L7s, L5s or even a pair of Kicker CVRs. Put them in a ported box and they should be plenty loud. Come to think of it it, 1 15" L7 is probably more than enough for you, I know a kid who has one in his Eclipse and it is mad loud. I know ive seen them online for like $250 with a custom ported box.

Try to keep your online shopping on mostly these sites.

sounddomain.com
onlinecarstereo.com
thezeb.com
crutchfield.com
ikesound.com (be wary though, ive heard some bad things about this one lately)

Most of those sites factory authorized dealers for most of their products. Most of them will also price match other internet sites. Do your research on both the products and dealer before you buy anything. Finally, dont let some of the people on here scare you off, stick around and you will find that this site is a valuable source of information and advice.

-------------




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 12:12 PM
ok, well sorry about tearing you a new a***ole and all.. but anyone that's owned / owns a shop, feels my pain here. haha, anyways, you never said how much you wanted to spend, BUT, if you want a cheeep system that will pound i know what you should go with,, find some spl w's (power acoustic mofo's) same sub, and get one of either of their 3000 watt amps,, (get 12's btw)  if you get these and get a good vent ported box that's the correct size you will be doing just fine, they are cheep and you can beat the hell out of them and they'll go for a good run... i had a guy in a big car with a sealed trunk hit 150's with just the subs in a box with the amp, nothing else, no drivers or caps or dynamat.. so i think that's pretty good for a cheap ass system..

-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 1:32 PM
Well I already have some good mids, 2 JVC 6X9's and a Rockford Component set THAT I DID BUY FROM MY LOCAL SHOP!!!!!!!! And then saw it on ebay for 170 dollars cheaper. But, thats irrelevant. I got the mids also I have som alpine tweeters and 61/2's that were in my Mustang when I bought it. So, Id like to spend about 1000 dollars on maybe like2 15's and an amp or two. Now my other local shop ( I have 2) sold my an autotek sx1200x 1200 watt rms 1 ohm mono block class "x" They also sell Alphasonik subs and say they are the Sh*t and wont recommend any other brand. So, should I buy those? They sell them for 600 dollars a piece and Ive found them for 189 a piece "elsewhere" But I woulod like to go with an All alp[hasonik setup. Is that A good idea? (Right now Im running 2 rockford 12" he2's with the autotek amp in a REALLY sh*tty box. It blew apart the box and made my rear view mirror fall off but i still want louder. My life long goal is to set off a car alarm : )




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 1:39 PM

not much of a life time goal, a car alarm is not hard to set off, now i used to drive threw the mall lot and have about 20 goign off at a time, that's a little better, but anyways,, haha, alphasonic is ok, not THE BEST (i hear they'er a lot bigger in the south then up here in ol i ndiana) but i've used them, they are good, but i wouldn't live by them.. i still think those mofo's are a good way to go, you can get them by *other means* for about 150 each. they have a 340 ounce magnet and handle 1000 rms a peice,,  that amp is nice tho... so i'd go with either the alphs or the p a's but that's really your choice,, i think theres a guy on here if you go to the buy/sell forum that's selling some 15inch mofo's for 300 bucks,, hold on i'll look.....

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=54082&PN=1

check that out



-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 10:11 PM
Ok. I've decided that the Mofo's look like good subs for me. Now how should i go about getting 3000 watts RMS?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 10:17 PM

In what vehicle? The Pony? If so then with a real big power supply and a hella leavy duty and super long extension cord. Big power like this demands a big power supply, in this case the heart, lungs and circulatory system. In the world of car audio this means, alternator, battery and power / ground wiring. Have you read my grounding sticky yet? This will definetely apply to your system. Post up more info on the vehicle and the system going into it.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 11:00 PM
Ok, well the vehicle is a 1995 ford mustang. The trunk is tiny. I couldnt fit my old box in there that I had my rockfords in. So Im not sure if i want to build to specs a box myself or have it professionally done since ive figured out that the box is key. Id like to make a fiberglass one since i have a wee bit of experience in that, but the Mofos might blow it apart... Now a couple people are saying that 2 15" Mofo's would be good for me and now I agree. So, now id like some amp recommendations now that every brand i liked and thought was good turns out to be crap. JL and Kicker amps are way expensive. I really like Alphasonik for some reason though. My local shop sells them and  swears by them that there the best thing ever. If not there subs would an amp from them work? Id like to just get one at 3k rms but that would prolly take a LOT of dough. So ill probably have to go with two running seperatelt at 1 ohm to accomodate the Mofo's 2 ohm dvc. So any amp recommendations would be great. As for the alternator and battery, I have no idea how strong they are.




Posted By: boardinbum
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 3:45 AM
Set off a car alarm? I set off my first car alarm with a single 12" Alpine Type E at 250watts RMS. It really doesn't take much. I say you aim for cracking your window.




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 9:11 AM

the power acoustic company makes a 3000 watt amp that is designed for those subs, it matches a little bit better with the 12's but it will work just fine for your 15's, look that up it's just a r3000d kole makes one, and so does spl, if you really want one i can pick on up for you but it would be for a little under retail.. if you are wanting some ebay kinda thing your going to have to look around, the 2400's sell like crazy on there but not the 3000,, the 2400's are junk, DON'T get them, they blow consistantly, but the 3000 will take a beating.. email me back if you want me to get one 4 ya



-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 12:42 PM

No offence to the post above, but Power Acoustik, Alphasonik, Auidobahn and the likes are all the botom of the barrel. They are lines built by the cheapest bidder in the far east. (thus the quality control issues that was eluded to). Research the amplifiers even more to find out exactly how overrated most amplifiers truly are. Hopefully the CEA2006 ratings will put and end to this. As of right now, too many brands prey on the uneducated consumer, this leaves some of the people like me to show a differerign side of the industry.

The only thing I am trying to sell you, is me. Take my recommendations for what you think they are worth. If I recommend a product, maybe you will research it and come back with questions or maybe you will come back and tell me that I was bang on. Most people take me at my word (you'll know when I am kidding you).

Now as far as the car goes, 2 15's in the trunk of a 95 Stang is going to be difficult. This is due to the fact that 15's for the most part take up space and a lot of it. I pointed out earlier that it is all about the box. Whatever subs you choose, you must have the exact size enclosure available to go into this car. This car does not lend itself to a nice and easy drop in sub box system IIRC. If I am correct, the box has to be built either in the vehicle and so much for getting it out or needs to be built in pieces to get it into the vehicle as the trunk opening is too small.

Bigger does not necessarily mean better. 2 12" subs in the proper box will tear a new butthole for a pair of 15's in the wrong size box. Look at the space you have available first, then figure out how the box is going to go into the vehicle and assemble (and mount securely as a loose box wastes output), then choose a sub based around these factors.

Big power = big power system, if you are running a stock electrical system with no imminent plans on upgrading it, big power is not going to do to much for you. You cannot magically make big power from an amp unless you deliver big power to the amp. Consider some basic math here. A difference of 3 db on average (not all cases) results in something that you can tell is louder. A difference of 3 db in the audio world as a doubling of something. A doubling of woofers from 1 to 2, 2 to 4. A doubling of power from 100 watts to 200 watts. A doubling of power from 1500watts to 3000 watts. However the most benefit you will gain in your system as far as output levels go, is going to come from the box. It is all about the box and how it couples with the vehicle (called cabin gain). If you want loud and who cares about how it sounds, find the resonant frequency of the vehicle (no e-tailer can do this for you - go to a shop and have a sinewave sweep done and then zero in on the frequency), next build and tune your box to this frequency. This is the road to loud one note bass response but it sucks for listening to everyday music.

If you want to listen to your music, the word compromise must become part of your vocabulary. A ported box as a general rule will also give you a minimum of 3 db more output (in most cases much more in the lower octaves where your deep bass lies and the ability to piss of the entire neighbourhood). Go through what I have written and do a search on some of these topics here on the forum and ask more questions. I am hella busy here at the shop right now and will respond when I have time. Hope you take my advice for what it is and understand a little bit more as to why I am anti e-tailer. No e-tailer I know of right now would have spent this time with you when they could be selling to another unsuspecting customer.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 12:53 PM
Forbidden gives top notch advice ^^^^. Take it.

Additionally, he is 100% correct about those brands. Even online they are a horrible value for the money, in my opinion.

Try this:

I noticed an awesome sale here: https://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX801D

Those 800w at 2ohms will rock any budget subs out there, especially if you port.

But that shouldn't be your first step. First measure exactly how much space in your car you have to dedicate to subs. Post back here when you find that out. Then we can help you pick the subs and box that are right for your car.

-------------
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 1:07 PM
yea that's good advice, and those companies are all at the bottom of the barrel, but we already got over that deal, that's what this kid is looking for, so if he wants cheap stuff that will be loud, this is the thing he wants, i'm just trying to give him advice on what he wants. he wanted 15's so i think those would work, personally i would do 12's... but then personaly, i wouldn't buy that stuff anyways... so it's not really about what i think is better or you think is better, he's gonna get what he's gonna get

-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 1:11 PM
^^^ I agree but let's all give him the proper background on the products he is interested in. This way he can make an educated and informed buying decision that he will be comfortable with.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 1:43 PM

^^^^^Absolutely correct, and on par for this forum.  That's the very reason I've been lurking and posting for quite a long time now...the learning aspect of it all.  (I have so many posts only because I learn better by being involved, but it is the generals like Rob that I pay strictest attention to.) 

Anybody on the street can tell me that one cheap sub is louder than another cheap sub, but this forum provides the real story.  Rob of Forbidden has taken on some of the responsibilty of steering, and it's a thankless job.  But he and many others are the soul of the12volt and their students are the next chapter.  I haven't wasted very much time in other car audio forums but from what I've experienced the result of this attention to the basics and the laws of power is what makes this forum so much better for any DIY installer. 

Get on the right path from the start...or at the very least know why you're taking an errant route.



-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 6:26 PM
I really do appreciate all of the advice you guys have givin me. Now i think the title of the post is misleading. I DO want supremely high SPL levels but i dont want to totally cut SQ out of the picture. Now if you say its all about the box (which i beleive) should i just keep my current subs and spend more time on the box. Im not sure how much you like the Rockford Fosgate HE2's but i have gotten good feedback on the amp im using (Autotek SX1200X Class X 1200 RMS monoblock) The he2's combined take 800 rms so i was running 900 to them with the autotek. should i keep these or go with some Mofo's or MTX 7500-9500 series? In my opinion the HE2's werent to bad, considering they are in THE sh*tTI*ST box ever made that i bought from a swap meet. It is a ported bandpass box. I have no idea how many cu. ft it is or what its ported too, all i know is its a piece of sh*t. All the screws got blown out of the plexi and there are hardcore air leaks. I could sell the he2's and amp on ebay and invest in new equipment or keep them. Ill take your guys advice on what to do. Thanks again for all who check back and are educated me in this world!!




Posted By: Captanham
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 6:29 PM
do the box first, then if you still don't like it, sell them in the box and get something else, you will be suprized, as much as we say it on here,, you still dont' realize HOW MUCH the box really means in this situation, so i'd redo it, and then think about what you want

-------------
Bad Boys Customs
    audio - video - security

If you use it. Suport it. Donate to the 12 volt!




Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 6:38 PM

if your looking for a good amp at e-bay price check this out ! >> https://cgi.ebay.com/dll?ViewItem&item=5769393484&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 

That amp is one heck of a bad actor!  Altho if put it in a vehicle with a stock electrical system it will seriously shut your car off when the bass hits.  An upgraded alt is needed.



-------------
2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 6:41 PM

Thanks for taking the time to learn and allowing the people of this site to act as your teacher. I'm not so bad after all now am I. (just don't piss in my cornflakes or bring me another RX8 any time soon).



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 8:53 PM
Ok, well my manual that came with the HE2's says they need 1.25 cu. ft per. it even gives a diagram of what to make. It shows one sub for one box is 14.75 in. H 20.5 in. W and 11 in D. Supposedly that all ads up to 1.25ft3 fb=35. It also shows the prot hole to be 4X15.5 in. So is taht what i should make? I have the tools and materials to construct a box, but i dont think theres any way possible to get that to go into the trunk. If i make the box myself do i just glue it all together with liquid nails and then seal the seams with a sealent, then seal the outside walls with polyurethane? Or do i get it custom made? My shop charges an easy 300 for 3/'4 mdf. Also i got a question about the the angle of the box. Where should the subs point? I had my shop install the autotek so i could get the warranty and they pointed the box towards the back instead of the front. Why? Also, can they be pointed straight up towards the trunk lid? And if i make the box a little different than what it says (like take an inch in Heighth and add an inch in depth or something like that) is that ok? Thanks again. Also is rockford like one of those companies that spend more money on chrome and ads than on products?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 9:05 PM

HE2 subs were not designed to be a real balls to the wall kind of sub. The measurements that you gave are what is called gross volume and when all is said and done, will equal the net volume that you listed as 1.25ft^3. This gross volume is the size of the box before the sub and the port is placed into it. It is the recommended "safe" box from Rockford and if you want to build a box to test ideas with, this is the one to do it.

Nothing wrong with having the subs firing to the back, in some vehicles it aids in cabin gain (a good thing). The box can be any shape under the sun as long as the internal gross volume is the same. Go to the volume calculator on this site (in the blue sidebar to the left in the car audio portion) and experiment with measurements that are based on what you have in your car and the ability to get that box into the car.

The box needs to be bang on, meaning dead straight cuts and a good amount of glue to hold it together. Silicone on the inner seams is recommended. These were my least favorite Rockford subs to work with, The HX2's were a whole new ball game. I'm outta here for the night, hopefully one of the other members of the forum can pick up where I have left off.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: April 23, 2005 at 11:25 PM
I would point the subs towards the back of the care, with them angled up a bit so you get some bass bouncing off the rear hatch. Make sure you do a good job on the box...measure twice, cut once and remember the 6 Ps (Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance).

Rockford isnt really one of those companies that spend more money on advertising and bling, like Audiobahn. But many people think the company has been going downhill in the past years.

Overall I think you will be pretty plesed with those subs in a correctly speced box, especially in a smaller hatchback car, it should get loud enough. if not you can always sell the stuff and get something new. let us know how everything turns out.



-------------




Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 24, 2005 at 11:15 AM
OK guys thanks a million for all your info and help. When i get my next check i will go buy some MDF and see if i cant put something together thats have way decent and to specs. One other thing, what do i use as a port tube?




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 24, 2005 at 12:08 PM
Look at PVC tubing at your local hardware store.  It can be easily cut to size.  You can measure its inside diameter and use that when figuring port volume.  Start a new thread when you get to that point and the forum will help you out.

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: Paradigm
Date Posted: April 25, 2005 at 9:11 AM

boardinbum wrote:

Set off a car alarm? I set off my first car alarm with a single 12" Alpine Type E at 250watts RMS. It really doesn't take much. I say you aim for cracking your window.

I set off my first car alarm with my finger. I just saved this kid hundreds of dollars on sh*t he don't need! woohoo posted_imageposted_image



-------------
VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2





Print Page | Close Window