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SearchingPrinted From: the12volt.comForum Name: Car Audio Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc. URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=54900 Printed Date: May 15, 2024 at 9:16 PM Topic: Searching Posted By: Master Asylum Subject: Searching Date Posted: May 01, 2005 at 7:42 AM Ok I'm not retyping my entire longest post ever a third time, **** that. I'mgonna kill the idiot that screwed this computer up. This is very basic low down now: 6.5 comps. I need something to handle 75wRMS well and beautifully. I like MB Quarts, open to options. Any advice/opinions/options welcome. Tired of my amp blowing RF's pos products. What is the MB Quart QSD 216's power handling, says from 90 to 170 watts... And that is how much RMS? Bi-amping, highly interested in getting more info for a project upcoming and potentially my car. Need to know how to figure out the power handling of each component. 1/2 the rated? What are some good online car sales that can be upheld by manufacturers warranties? I thought they were all voided but I also remember reading about some law suit in Florida that won that out for the consumer. I'll post if I remember something else. Price tag is well, flexible as hell. I'd like to keep as cheap as possible, but I understand that what you buy is what you get concept. I'm willing to buy higher end materials that are reputable for being good. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Replies: Posted By: haemphyst Date Posted: May 01, 2005 at 9:37 AM As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing out there worth a crap in off-the-shelf component sets... 90 watts, 150 watts... My ass! If you want QUALITY, you will buy a separate tweeter and mid-bass driver... (and one might even consider, once you're going this far, an awesome 3 inch mid - even more important than the woofer and tweeter, because this is the driver where nearly ALL the voice frequencies will come from, especially a womans voice)
The Adire Extremis 6.8 with a good quality amplifier rated around 200 watts for the mid-bass, the Usher for a midrange, or perhaps the Vifa 3 inch dome mid. As for the tweeter, avoid metal domes, whatever ANYBODY says... Metal domes are very fatigueing, and no fun to listen to, IMHO... These Morel tweeters come as a matched pair... spendy, but high power handling, replaceable domes, WIDE frequency response, excellent transient response, shallow mounting depth, all add up to a very good tweeter choice, even in the event you wanted to go with an EXCELLENT sounding bi-amped two way system. Rod Elliott has one of the better overall technical websites, along with BCAE for information. I have given you the link to his paper regarding bi-amping... If you can find a reputable manufacturer that will allow online sales AND uphold a warranty, I would like to see it as well. Online sales open a whole HOST of issues for a manufacturer, including liability, and they all hate that word. I realize that a brick-and-mortar is going to cost you more, but isn't the support after the sale, a proper installation, and actually getting to KNOW the guy that sells you your stuff, worth a few extra bucks? Your high-end gear, (and I am specifically NOT referring to RF, Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, Kicker, or any other mfr that whores themselves out to the big box stores in the name of the almighty dollar) manufacturers that specially and specifically hand choose a dealer, do so for a reason. These dealers have usually proven themselves as quality installers, have longevity in the community in which you find them, provide proper warranty service, and can support your purchase AFTER the purchase. Me, I'm buying from my local dealer - Thanks, but no thanks, to the impersonal, no face havin', voice on the other end of the phone line... he won't even be still working there next week when I have a question about why my deck's treble control suddenly no longer works... To me, that is not worth the 20 or 50 bucks I might save on my (insert product name here) ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down." Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 02, 2005 at 4:58 PM I am going to look into those products indepth, but you put an approach that sounds about my ally and I wasn't even aware was entirely approachable. Thank you. I'll let you know on any decisions I decide and get some feedback. Concerning the online sales, the only reason I ask is this. Local dealer prices 12w7 for $880 vs $599. The 1000/1 $1200 vs $799. That isn't a subtle difference, me I like my local support entirely, and I even like to have it pro installed. But that I need to learn at some point, and now is good as any. :) But I also like the face to face ability of local shops, problem is, best local shop is a good 45 min drive, which hurts for minor reasons to visit. But dealing with high end like JL product and such, that makes me reconsider my location of purchase. Just trying to look at all the options, as the products I'm looking at aren't for me, I'm a means of finding for another. The decision will be his. Again thanks for all the help! Anyone know where the hell to find a body kit for a 98 Monte Carlo LS? God this body is ugly. EDIT: What is the BCAE Bi-amping link/section? I don't recall ever reading that. But I also read that like 3-4 months ago atleast. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 03, 2005 at 4:31 PM What amp/s would best work for each of those components? I'm liking the Adire for Midbass, the Usher for the mid(though I'd like to know the power handling on the other one), and the Morel tweeter. Not sure if I wanna go 3 2ch or 1 4ch and 1 2ch or what.
------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: Jagrx8 Date Posted: May 03, 2005 at 5:43 PM I'd also like to know how to set up that system and what amps to buy. I suppose a crossover may be needed as well...
Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 05, 2005 at 9:03 AM Any suggestions for amping these components by chance? Like what kinda setup(3 2c or 1 4c and 1 2c). D Class, AB, US Amps seems to have some new class? What would be the best power ratings to look at? I noticed some are 8 ohm impedance, which I would assume, logically, that'd be the best thing to look at, correct? Just kinda hoping to hear back, as this idea is pretty killer.
------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: haemphyst Date Posted: May 05, 2005 at 9:31 AM Let me get back with you, in regards to power ratings... I just looked at the clock, and I gotta get to work.
------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down." Posted By: haemphyst Date Posted: May 06, 2005 at 11:18 AM Master Asylum wrote: Sorry, it took me so long to get back, but here are my feelings... It really will not matter whether you use a class A/B or class D amp. The newest class D amps are getting MUCH better in the high frequency reproduction area, oweing to their MUCH higher switching frequencies, and a 6 channel class D amp will be small... I can't say for SURE they still exist, but I have seen 6 channel class D amps in the past... a company called Blade made them... I do know that Alto also has two flavors of 4 channel class D amps - a 50x4 and a 75x4. Here's the URL: https://www.altomobile.com/html/adp_multi.html I would use these amps in my system if I didn't already have 3000 dollars worth of Eclipse amps in my trunk... They sound AWESOME, and have gotten very good reviews, as well. I have no idea of the price point, but they are in line with pretty much whatever else is out there... In your case, looking into a 3 way setup for your doors, I would go with the 4x50 and a 2x75... That'd be plenty of power for a front stage. One thing you really need to be aware of, in regards to overall impedance, is your amplifier will make slightly more than half it's 4 ohm rating into an 8 ohm load. With the Adire 6.8, I have not noticed a real need to beat on 'em... If you REALLY wanted to run more than 40 watts or so to them, I'd look into the Alto 150x2, and while not currently available, I saw them in use at the CES this year, so they are on the way. For a little more flexibility, you might consider a pair of the 75x2 versions, and bridge them... Actually, looking at it like that, get 2 of the 50x4 amps, run one in four cannel mode to the mid/tweeter combo in the door, and bridge the other 50x4 to the mid-bass for around 100x2. Avaialble NOW, AND it'd look cool in the trunk too... two of the SAME amp, that always appealed to me as far as cosmetics went... :) There are a couple of options for you. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down." Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 07, 2005 at 4:04 PM Ok I'm gonna check into info on those amps(Any links would be greatly appreciated if not "commonly" available on the web). I'm going to be putting all of these into a kick panel for each side. (Doors are a pain, *might* someday put a 2nd midbass but I entirely doubt it, since I wanna fabricate my own door panels anyways.) Now let me get this straight before I conciously move on: Power handling suggestions: Assuming I got with the 2 4c amps of 50x each. And I do personally like linear design. Let me know if I got anything wrong. Thank you for the help! One last note, sorry. Where exactly is this equipment obtainable? I mean some stuff is accessible through dealers and/or websites. BUt I have trouble finding a way to purchase the stuff like Adire and such with a support of their warranty. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: Steven Kephart Date Posted: May 08, 2005 at 2:26 PM Master Asylum wrote: Yes, the Extremis can handle more power than that. Power handling will most likely be dictated by the enclosure used rather than thermally. We have yet to have anyone burn one up. Master Asylum wrote: Right now you can purchase the Extremis drivers direct from us. Either that or you can purchase them from www.acoustic-visions.com or www.creativesound.ca. We have quite a few new dealers we are signing up right now that will be up on our dealer site as soon as we get product rolling. So chances are good that you will have a local dealer near you in the future. Steven Kephart Adire Audio ------------- Posted By: haemphyst Date Posted: May 08, 2005 at 5:34 PM Master Asylum wrote: The 40w per 6.8 is if you are only using one amp, rated at 75x2, BUT my suggestion was a 4 channel at 4x50, bridged. This will give you approximately 100w per side. Master Asylum wrote: What do you mean, "linear design"? Master Asylum wrote: As Steven said, you can buy the 6.8's at several places... See his post above. The amps are available at Altomobile and are REALLY nice gear. Go setup a user name for their forum, and you can ask about and locate a local dealer that way. I could personally get you in touch with the SoCal dealer, but I believe they have exculsivity contracts, so if you are not in SoCal, you would not be able to buy from him anyway... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down." Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 09, 2005 at 9:44 AM Linear design, one side matches the other(the basic aesthetic application of two amps if you entirely disregard their purposes.) If you go with two amps of the same kind, it will visually be comparible to the look of one amp, (draw a line down the middle of the picture and both sides will either be exactly the same or fairly close) Two amps of different size/design/etc wouldn't similar. Atleast that is why I like the dual amp setup ignoring any real purposes like powering properly and such. Sorry, that was probably a little more elaborate than I shoulda went into that. Anyways. Now one thing I wanna ask about the Alto ADP204, it says it has a frequency range of 50Hz to 500Hz, won't that considerably limit the ability to do highs? And more so, can someone explain to me the usual frequencies for what would be consider high/mid/low. I get that like 100-160 and below is usually a low setup. Other than that, I'm not really very sure as to what frequencies fit where, and where the human voice fits into that. Sorry, I just wanna make sure I know this well enough going into this project. I finally have that income thing again, so hopefully I can get going. On a side note, I wanna go ahead and take an approach to obtaining the drivers right now while I wait for the amps. I'm considering this for the time being: 16-MCH13000 5c Amp (1110wRMS x 1 @ 1ohm + 75wRMSx4 @4ohm) I'll go ahead and keep running the kicker subs for now until I get my interiors setup entirely. (I'm staging out my advancement, costing a little more by doing it but I am content.) Now looking at it I see it like this: Now all these drivers are 8 ohm impedance if I understand correctly(Please let me know if I'm wrong.) Now higher impedance means lower power if I understand it correctly. (Ohm's law and such). So 75/2(roughly) would be like 37.5wRMS(again, roughly) that would successfully be powered to say the Extremiis 6.8 and the Morel Tweeter, which it should handle fine, correct? It won't be like killer loud, but it'll work. Atleast for now. Then I have the Eclipse 8454 that puts out somewhere under 18wRMS. If I use that to power my Mids, would this all theoretically work or is there something I have overlooked. (Though I'm not sure how I'd set the cross over for all of these, and I would believe that I'd need a crossover for the midrange as well.) If anyone reading this needs more detail I'll gladly provide. I'd just like to work my way up like this: Stage 1: Replace Stock HU (DONE when car was bought, an old Pioneer Premier HU) I like this approach for most people to start, but damn, I definitely learned that Stage 2 can be bipassed or switched if the personally really wants the best experience. It also helps to be involved enough to be able to do your own searching/kick panel design/etc. I'm learning how to do some of this, but man, the options for most people in real life(atleast here) don't go this extreme. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: stevdart Date Posted: May 09, 2005 at 9:53 AM ....perhaps "symetrical" would serve as a better definition of what you described...
------------- Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times. Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 09, 2005 at 9:59 AM Sorry, that's what I meant. Good lord, my brain is slowly shutting down. Dammit, I need to get a job doing something more than delivering pizzas, it really makes you shut down. Maybe BB will be an option today, weee. Thanks for the fix there steve
------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm Posted By: Master Asylum Date Posted: May 12, 2005 at 7:45 AM Anyone able to give some insight to my "latest" post please? Can I or can I not run of the HU and current amp? If yes, can someone go over it and make sure I have the right idea. If not, can someone explain why, would great appreciate that. What about the 8 ohm impedance, did I grasp that correctly? Also, anything on the frequency questions? Thanks for the time! ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/ Eclipse CD8454 2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C 2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369 1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel 2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm |
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