10in under passenger seat?

hey guys.. tell me if u think im insane.  dont know a whole lot about car stereos, some of the setup info is messing with my head right now.  but in the mean time let me tell u about my idea for the setup

10 inch sony sub under the pasenger seat.  theres just enough volume under the seat to match the specs, but when u add the driver itself it will be under so i was gonna put some foam carpet underlay stuff in the box to get up to the right suspension.  my only concern is that the driver is going to be right in the padding for the seat.  the only part of the box that will be open to air will be the front and back of the box, which will only be about 5 inches tall, with the driver mounted upwards.

now concerns i have are, how do i know how much padding to put in?  will too much padding give me trouble?  and does the driver stand to get damaged by facing up?  and again, how muffled will the sound be if the driver is butted right up to 4 inches of foam?

any other concerns or thoughts are appreciated.

Subs need room to breath (at least an 1.5" or so in front of them). You don't want the cone or surround hitting the seat. This could damage the sub and make it sound like crap.

The trunk is usually the best location for a sub in a car. You could try fiberglassing an enclosure if you have a storage pocket or some unused space.

If you still want to determine if your sub could be used in a downfiring or upfiring position you can use this simple calculator. https://www.accelerator-pedal.com/sag.htm

ok so if i could manage to give it a little bit of breathing room.. just enough of a gap so that theres atleast an air flow over the driver?  im really set on doing it like this cause i use my trunk space a lot, moving furniture and stuff.. in my escourt, i know.  anyways.

so just try for a little gap, enough to not impede the airflow.. and obbviousely so theres enough room for a full stroke on the driver.  right?

www.earthquakesound.com   go here and look at the SWS (shallow woofer system)

A 12 that mounts in 3 inches of depth, a 10 in 2.5.....they work real well.

again.  its cheap.  its the only way im going to have a sub.  its this one or no one.  regardless i understand that it wont go under the seat.  im better about that, yes, but im just gonna rethink as to where to put the thing. 

thanks for the help.

What type of car are we talking about here. It might help us help you if we knew the vehicle make.

Chris

96 escourt hatchback + 10" sony sub

i cant get it under the front seat, thats clear now, and so now im just conpemplating if i want the trouble.  i dont like the idea of having it in my trunk.  i use it too much.  it would have to be some where along the back wall or something.  either way.. im just gonna figure out where i want it now and tackle it from there.

again, thanks for the help

yeah i used the first link to figure out that the sag on it is something like 6%.. not suitable for upward firing.  so the under the seat thing is a bad idea..

the whole thing about the rear deck isnt a bad idea, its a hatch back yes, but the rear panel is strong enough to support the weight (only 2kg) and i could always wire it nicely so that i could raise and lower the hatch.  but again.. thats an upward fire, and thats more trouble than under the seat, so i would go back to the under the seat idea.

and the trunk isnt a bad idea and no, i realize its not gonna take up a lot of trunk space but its also the fact that it is going to be a nuisance.  and i want to set it and forget it.  i dont wanna have to unplug it every time.  and ive got people in my car a lot so its gotta be permanent and out of the way.

physically its capable of going under the seat, u should see the beautiful gap.  i would have to take the seat out to do it, yes, but a big pain in the butt is ok to deal with.. if its something i gotta keep dealing with over and over.. thats not cool.  under the seat and out of the way.. thats awesome.  the whole under the seat thing would be perfect if only i could fire it upwards.

now my question is, is a 6% sag on a 10" sub really that big of an issue?

im putting the thing under the seat so remember sound quality isnt that big of an issue for me.  cause having the sub in there is gonna be a huge improvement over what ive got right now.  which is 4x 5.5" speakers.  they suck for low end.  want something to hum along with.  and this would be perfect if only it didnt sag so much.  so has any one ever just said.. "screw it.. i know it sags,.. but i want it there"??

Chris

i decided im going to go ahead and put the sub under the seat.  the idea is too perfect in my mind, and i think ive figured out a way to solve all my problems, thinking,.. out of the box.. so to speak.

basically the only problem i have with putting the sub under the seat is the sag.  the sub is fine under the seat and the box volume is shy but i can stuff it and it should come right up to where it should be.  so sag is the only issue.  ill think this over a little more when i pull the seat but i got two options.  sag can be minimized and even eliminated if u do one of two things, either change the orientation every so often (like an up firing sub would be rotated to downfiring every month or so) OR while the sub is on, it wont sag because its supposeted by the magentic fields, but while the sub is off, the sub sags.  what if i were to make a device that supposrts the weight of the magnet while its off?

hang in here for a minute.  the flipping option sucks cause its under the seat so i would have to remove the seat, then the sub,.. and filp the sub.  not only would i have to flip the sub but i would also have to take it completely out, cause by flipping the sub there would be no gap between it and the floor = bad.  flipping is out.

so if i can support the speaker fromt he magnet when its off,.. sag is eliminated.  i was thinking of some sort of panel that runs through a slot or something that i can manually slide from outside the box to slide under the sub when i turn the stereo off.  but theres an issue with making the box airtight in that case.  so i started thinking of even more slick ideas.

what about a solenoid that pushes up and mates with the speaker to keep it supported.  ofcourse this solemoid would only fire when the sub was turned off, and with a little creative electrical work that isnt too hard to do, i could even make it automatic when i take the key out of the ignition or what ever.  the only issue is that solenoids are magnetic. 

the question is.. how big is the magnetic field on a driver?  and would the device be thrown off by having a solenoid within 6 inches of the device?  if not 6 inches.. how far?  i would pull out my gauss meter,.. unfortunately,.. i dont have one.  i guess ill fire up the driver on the weekend and hold a compass near it. 

i would like to hear some feedback about this.  does any one see yet how i truely am insane?  i REALLY want to get that under my seat and im going to stop at NOTHING >: )

Chris

See how it sounds under the seat. If in the future you want to upgrade, Image dynamics makes some good subs that work in really small boxes. They would still sound better in the trunk though. You could build a really small box for them (like around .5 or so cf) and then just take it out when you need to move stuff.

https://www.cardomain.com/item/IDSID10V3D4

https://www.cardomain.com/item/IDSIDQ10D4V2

yeah those two drivers are kinda like the sony im looking at cept for the sony has a responce around 30-2500 Hz, which is more or less what im looking for.  i dont want the bump.. i just want something that humz along.

still trying to think of a way to support the cone weight when its idle tho.  ive been thinking about the whole sliding something like a plate into place to hold it up but i wouldnt be able to hold a seal,.. atleast i cant think of any way to make something like that.  still trying to figure out the whole solenoid thing.

Thorin_II wrote:

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96 escourt hatchback + 10" sony sub

i cant get it under the front seat, thats clear now, and so now im just conpemplating if i want the trouble.  i dont like the idea of having it in my trunk.  i use it too much.  it would have to be some where along the back wall or something.  either way.. im just gonna figure out where i want it now and tackle it from there.

again, thanks for the help

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take it from these guys...they definately know what they're talking about...with subs you want to be the last person that the sound waves actually hit (aim the subs towards the hatchback away from you so that the sound'll bounce off of the hatch back and THEN hit you) ...and take advantage of the hatchback feature on your escort....

Thorin_II wrote:

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wheres the logic behind being as far away from the sub as possible?  sound dissapates over distance, it doesnt get louder.  and if being as far away fromt he sub as possible has something to do with the wave lengths, again im going for a very wide range here.  i want this thing more or less for the 100-2500 Hz range.  im not looking for 10 Hz bump.  plus the majority of the sound im looking for WILL be higher than 200 Hz so i defintiely want the driver pointed to the ocupants.

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i hear where you're coming from friend...of course the sound dissapates over the distance (as we all know) but we're just talking about inside of the not so friendly environment of the vehicle....we want to be able to use the most out of our components/equipment.....if you want to mount anything under the actual seat then (IMO) i'd suggest a shaker of some type...

[QUOTE=Masta N]For SQ, having the subs as far away as possible is a good thing because it gives the wave more time to form.QUOTE]

It dosn't really have to do with the "wave devolping." It has to do with cancellation. Read this article about it. https://www.installer.com/tech/aiming.html

yea, that way you get more of the sound actually focuse together at the drivers seat,

if it's right under you,, you get the first bass, and all the reverberations off the rest of the car, it makes it sound like mush

im not going to try to blow the sub.  https://www.epinions.com/content_37517561476?sp=irev

unless im wrong.. looks like the sub will be just fine up to 2500.  its almost a mid-bass, if you want to call it that.  like i said.  i dont want a stereo that bumps.  i find that almost annoying to hear.  i just love the >100Hz range.  i saw the piece last night and its got a pretty stiff suspension.  im gonna drop by some shops and see what they think about the whole idea.  but i know now that it will fit and i have a feeling that the driver wont suffer a whole lot of damage due to sag.  besides, i cant see the effects of sag getting to this speaker before i blow the thing anyways cause i have a feeling i will.

i havent been able to find a responce curve for the driver.  its not on sony's site and i cant find any online references to it.  and my friend doesnt have the guide.

Raven: now that u know what the responce range is for the driver, do u still think i stand to damage it?  and i think ill be looking into how much of a capacitor (or inductor) i need to filter out the really low end bass,.. cause like i said.. i really dont like the "bump"  i dont listen to dance, and i think it will be much better for the driver if its not subjected to those first few waves.

no.. i have the sub.  it was pretty much given to me.  thats why im trying to work around it.  if i cant work around it, then im not going to put in any sub what so ever

If you want to use it as a midbass driver, then it should be positioned in the front of the vehicle.  Don't cross it over at 2500 Hz even if the specs say it can handle it- you'll get tons of vocals which will sound nasty/muffled.  You can try crossing over at 250 or so, but much anything above 80 Hz will detract from your front stage if your sub's in the back.

It may be best to rethink your situation.

ok let me correct myself

i do want mostly sub 500Hz but i dont want to stop it frpm handling a bit of higher end stuff.  i spent too much money on my 4 alpine speakers and i dont wanna blow them.  i listen to them too loud as it is.. and most of what im asking for from them is the sub 1000hz crap so i want this really high range sub (that is going to cost me only a small fraction of what the alpines costed me) to take care of the loud and low stuff.  and it can.  so why not?  blowing this sub isnt a big issue to me, but if its loud enough to give me what i want then i just want to try my besxt from keeping it from saging.

probably my next question would be aimed at getting rid of that super low and BUMP crap that i told you guys that i hate so much.

are there any tricks that you can think of with capacitors or inductors that would allow me to smooth out the driving voltages?  id like to filter (a bit) the low end (as in sub 35 Hz).  should i jsut go ahead to a phasor setup?  going to look into some of my texts as to some values that theoretically should give me the filter curve that im looking for to give you guys an idea.  probably wont be able to get around to that until tomorrow night.

toying witht he idea of running a tube from one seat to the other to provide true volume for the suspension.. and having a second box under the other seat.  this all depends on how big the amp is that im putting under the second seat.  i was thinking of just running some of the clear flexible water tubing you can get at hardware stores.  but would this flex too much do you think?

im trying to get a 10" Xplode under the pasenger seat of my 96 sescourt.  it needs 0.7 cu. ft.  theres 0.7 ft under the seat, but when i ad the wood and the driver, thres no way i can get enough volume, even doing the trick that ive heard about (putting cotton stuffing into the box will increase the volume by up to 40%).

so my next genius idea was to have two boxes.  one would hold the driver under the passenger seat but the second would be under the driver seat.  i'd run a flexible hose between the two for airflow. 

now my only problem is, im not sure how much the flexing of the hose is going to effect the volume that the driver experiences.  i mean, i cant use solid pvc so i have to use flex hose, and because it flexes, something tells me the flex in the hose when the driver is pumping is going to effect the volume it feels.

if any one else shares my concern, or, if you think it will work out just fine cause it wont effect the system enough to worry,.. id like to hear from you.

if you think im insane, reply anyway.

before i go, those headphones u see in the movies...

https://cgi.ebay.com/dll?ViewItem&category=48705&item=5773354832&rd=1

..work on the same principle.