Bits, DAC’s, and stuff?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=56133
Printed Date: May 09, 2025 at 9:52 PM
Topic: Bits, DAC’s, and stuff?
Posted By: dwarren
Subject: Bits, DAC’s, and stuff?
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 6:56 PM
I've been looking into high end decks (Nakamichi and Mcintosh) recently and have been noticing that the higher end decks incorporate high digit DAC's or at least 20-24 bit DAC's. My alpine only has 1 DAC. What are the bits? I think the DAC is a digital to analog converter.
A simple explanation of this would be nice and perhaps this will include why they/it are/is important. Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:10 PM
This would be my guess, but I'm no geek... https://www.t1shopper.com/tools/calculate/ "The basic unit used in computer data storage is called a bit (binary digit). Computers use these little bits, which are composed of ones and zeros, to do things and talk to other computers. All your files, for instance, are kept in the computer as binary files and translated into words and pictures by the software (which is also ones and zeros). This two number system, is called a "binary number system" since it has only two numbers in it." (....well, at the least I'm not a very smart geek...)
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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:20 PM
ok that's a lot of bits and bytes, so I am still not sure how this applies to a car stereo. Does the deck store memory for a moment then release it?
Why would whoever want to convert the signal from digital to analog? (DAC)
By the way I haven't received the grade for that essay and I am little concerend about because I felt it was weak, especially the damn thesis.
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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:29 PM
The bits are the zeros and ones that make up all computer data, as stevdart said, but the number of bits in a "word" is what is being told to you when you read 20 bits or 24 bits DAC. The number of bits determine the signal to noise ratio of a DAC. The higher the number, the better this S/N ratio can be. 1 bit DACs sound very bad compared to higher bit DACs, but they are VERY inexpensive to make. This is why they have become so popular to many manufacturers today. Sony is the worst offender in this category.
Here is a link explaining the differences between varying bit depths. It also makes mention of sampling rates, something you didn't ask about, but is very important to understand as well.
In my opinion, 20 bits is plenty, but 44kHz sampling is NOT enough. 20/96 would be adequate for my aging ears, but there ARE DEFINITELY MAJOR audible differences between 16/44 and 24/96. And 1 bit converters can get bent. They are an abomination to high-end audio. I have never heard one that I like, they are usually "hashy" or tinny sounding - thin in the midrange, and sound VERY digital to me. I have been able to, more times than not, pick a 1-bit player out of a crowd. That's just me. If a player "touts" 1-bit as a selling feature to me, it'll never get sold... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:34 PM
dwarren wrote:
ok that's a lot of bits and bytes, so I am still not sure how this applies to a car stereo. Does the deck store memory for a moment then release it?
Every CD player requires a DAC.
Your does, because it is a 1-bit player. It has a buffer in it that takes the 16 bit word from the disc, and buffers it to send off to the DAC one bit at atime.
dwarren wrote:
Why would whoever want to convert the signal from digital to analog? (DAC)
The analog is what your ear needs. It can't understand digital.
dwarren wrote:
By the way I haven't received the grade for that essay and I am little concerend about because I felt it was weak, especially the damn thesis.
Didn't read it, personally, but I looked for other stuff on the net... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:39 PM
Ok well I am getting there. When the article mentions "slices" of music I am a little unsure of that.
So what would a 20 bit dac piece of equipment's sampling rate be? or is that based on what the unit does.
So what I have concluded is that the higher the better as far as bits go.
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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:50 PM
dwarren wrote:
Ok well I am getting there. When the article mentions "slices" of music I am a little unsure of that.
The "slice" of music is the 16, 20, or 24 bit word.
dwarren wrote:
So what would a 20 bit dac piece of equipment's sampling rate be? or is that based on what the unit does.
Correct - it will be determined by the equipment and the design.
dwarren wrote:
So what I have concluded is that the higher the better as far as bits go.
Yes, but sampling rate is just as important. Sampling rate is mathematically infinitely perfectable i.e. can ALWAYS GO HIGHER, but bit rate can only reach the perfection of the human hearing machine, including all psychoacoustics. It (the bit rate) can go higher, but it would not be necessary - the ear can't resolve any more information beyond a certain point. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: May 20, 2005 at 7:56 PM
I can see you have quite a grasp of this concept.
I am satisfied with I have learned and will probably re-read some of this info again.
Thank you both for the input  -------------
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: May 21, 2005 at 3:30 PM
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: May 21, 2005 at 3:58 PM
I have one more question. It is more model specific but never the less. I am looking at the Mcintosh MX406 and one of the specs reads "dual 20 bit Burr-Brown DAC's"
Does this mean it has 40 bit DAC's total or two ten bit DAC's?
-edit-
I am looking at the MX406 and an older Nak 45z. Obviously I can obtain the Nak for a considerable difference as it used from a friend, however I am really wanting to get jsut abou the best so will it be worth my time and $ to invest in a Mcintsoh in this situation?
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