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tweeters

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=57913
Printed Date: May 06, 2024 at 6:26 AM


Topic: tweeters

Posted By: wrathchild281
Subject: tweeters
Date Posted: June 17, 2005 at 4:26 PM

hey u guys i have 6.5 in components in my front doors and a while back i had a seperate tweeter put like further above it. It sounded good and it did come with a crossover it was profesionally installed. They are pretty nice memphis tweeters rated at 50 rms. i only had about maybe 20 watts rms pushing them with my head unit and they still managed to blow. My question is how did they blow with only that much power and when i get new ones should i run them off an amp at about 50 watts rms? thanks



Replies:

Posted By: Blowntweeters
Date Posted: June 17, 2005 at 4:58 PM
you should us an amp your all of your main speakers speakers dont blow from to much power normally  distortion and cliping is what blows speakers also i think you should get some crossovers

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1974 ford pinto 4 15" punch Z power punch bd 1001 pioneer DEH-6700




Posted By: outlaw000
Date Posted: June 17, 2005 at 10:15 PM
you should definatly get some crossovers or else those tweeters are going to be driven as if they are 6.5's which they were not made for and also be carfull because blown tweeters can short the radio




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 17, 2005 at 11:41 PM
Get better tweeters.

If you have the space I would recommend a nice set of Pro-audio Compression drivers. 1in throat opening, 116dB sensitivity, cross it over at around 6k~7khz. That'd be high enough to get the horn size down to something managable. Then you could truely play them with the power from your HU. Just imagine, 125dB with only 12watts of powerposted_image

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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 18, 2005 at 12:29 AM
ya as i said the tweeters come with crossovers as well as all my other speakers do in my car. my question is should i run them off the head unit or off an amp?




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 18, 2005 at 12:38 AM
an amp

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Posted By: mthomecouple
Date Posted: June 22, 2005 at 11:56 AM
definately use an amp

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joe




Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 22, 2005 at 5:10 PM
ya well see im going to add a set of tweeters and 2 pairs of 4in memphis coaxial speakers. and i want to feed about 50 watts to each of those. could i do all of that off of 1 4 channel amp?




Posted By: playr747
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 8:24 AM
Sure you could. Run the front 4's and tweets in Parallel at 2 ohms stereo with the tweets crossed over. The amp should be fine and then run the rear channels to the other 4's




Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 11:30 AM
well see i already have a memphic mclass 2004 amp pushing a set of 6x9's and a set of 6.5's. so would i want to by another amp for the new speakers im adding?




Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 12:28 PM
What are you talking about? Do you or do you not have 6.5"s and 6x9"s? Or do have 4" memphis coaxials? Please explain your plan here with good detail. It is very confusing right now.



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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 7:11 PM
ok, currently i have 2 6x9's and 2 6.5's. I plan on adding 4 4in speakers and a pair of tweeters. My speakers right now are being powered off of a 200 watt 4 channel amp. My question is how should i power my new speakers?




Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 7:17 PM
I would advise you to not add the four, 4" speakers. I think you will be disappointed in the outcome. Even the addition of the tweeters is questionable.

Why do you want to do this?

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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 7:20 PM
i want to do this because im about to add 4 more 12's. i have 4 right now and ya its alot of bass. i just want to know should i get another 4 channel amp? and could i power my 4 new speakers and a pair of tweeters off of it?




Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 7:25 PM
This is becoming a lost cause, 4" speakers are not going solve this issue, I don't think. Adding extra tweeters will simply hasten your hearing loss along with that sub set up.

So to answer your question though, try using the deck first then decide if you want to add an amp. If I were you I would just try the tweeters off the deck, but the addition of the tweeters will add only higher frequencies and your mids will suffer even more. Good luck.





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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 8:15 PM
Lost cause...agreed.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 9:54 PM
 i would like to add more mids and highs to get over my bass. so i want to add more speakers. how is that a lost cause?




Posted By: oonikfraleyoo
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 10:39 PM
Adding more is not always the answer. In fact it is seldom the answer.

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Nik
Jeeputer Progress
[|||||||||||-] 90%
Check it out.




Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 11:03 PM

umm ok? so waht r u guys telling me to do





Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 23, 2005 at 11:20 PM
Long story short: It's time for you to get new mains

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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 24, 2005 at 11:18 AM
um i just recently got 2 6.5 inch memphis multisynce components in the front and memphis mclass 6x9's in the back and there being powered off of a memphis 2004 amp. Comon you guys ppl with 8 12's dont just have 4 really nice speakers. its just not gonna happen. could you guys answer my question on how i should power the new speakers i plan on getting? thanks




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 24, 2005 at 1:37 PM
It makes no sense though. Adding four 4in speakers isn't going to do anything. Have you calculated the EXACT position that each of the new speakers needs to be in to prevent ANY cancelation? Phase Difference? Lobing? Sensitivity? Have you thought about tanality differences?

I would advise you look into buying another set of memphis components and make custom kick panels to house the mid range/bass drivers, preferably a close to each other as possible. And possibly make/modify the A-pillar to hold another tweeter. This would sound MUCH better the four different speakers.

BUT if you really want to use 4 4in speakers then I would suggest that you mount ALL of them in the a-pillars directed at the front passengers. This would give you the best sound quality with that setup.

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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 24, 2005 at 8:20 PM
alrite thanks ya im gonna make a custom panel in like by the armrests in the 2 front doors. i can fit like 2 5 and quarter coaxials in each door. would that sound much better than the 4's? or even one 6.5 in each.




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 25, 2005 at 8:03 AM
WEll that would give you a 3/6dB increase which is what I think you're looking for, right?

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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 25, 2005 at 12:04 PM
alrite all of this is really confusing me. could i power 4 4in speakers and a set of tweeters off of a 50x4 4 channel amp? and how much would each speaker be getting? thanks




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: June 25, 2005 at 3:24 PM
Can the amp handle 2ohms?

If so then you would wire one 4in and one tweeter in parallel to each channel.

Is the amp rated at 50x4 at 2 or 4ohms? If it's at four ohms and the amp can handle 2ohms then each channel would be getting ~100w.



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Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 11:36 AM
it is rated at 50x4 at 2 ohms. So how much would 6 speakers be getting each if i hooked them all up to that amp? thanks.




Posted By: wrathchild281
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 11:39 AM
whoops sorry its actually making 50x4 at 4 ohms and it says 75x4 at 2 ohms. soo




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 11:12 PM

Whoa look at all these posts and no one is telling wrathchild *why* what he's trying to do is going to sound so bad.

wrathchild, when you start adding speakers in the manner you are talking about, you wind up not adding sound, but in many cases canceling what you have out and muddying up what is left.  I couldn't imagine how your setup would sound but it is sounding so incredibly bizarre that I'm having a little trouble just imagining how you came up with this setup.

Think of dropping two stones in the water.  Ya know how the waves will hit each other and disappate each other? That is kinda what happens when you start adding speakers around a car in the manner you are talking about.  That is why we are telling you it is such a bad idea.  Lotsa buzz-words and heady sound-philosophy here.. but the fundemental idea here is that more really isn't better.

Ya know how if you drop two stones in the water, but you hold them close together, and they make one big splash?  That is why Poormanq45 is telling you, if you are dead set on doing something this goofy, do it with an extra componet set, not 4x4"... if you mount one in a kickpod and the other in the front door, *close* together, you get much less of that cancelation effect... and you'll be closer to your goal of more sound that you'll ever get with your 4x4 plan. 

Not only that, wiring a midbass in parallel with a tweeter b/c thats the only way it'll work, especially given all the other equipment you have, is completely retarded.  I can't even address the ridiculousness of such a proposition without my head almost hurting.

You say "come on guys, ppl with 8 12 don't just have 4 really nice speakers" .. I don't really know how else to tell you this, but usually ppl don't have 8 12's at all.  I really don't know if you'd even be able to design a high end that would be able to keep up with that sort of pressure.  What kinda of vehicle is this behemoth system in?

Poormanq45 is right, if you want to do this the way you want, you need new mains.  A 3-way setup with lotsa cone area.. bridge the entirty of that 50x4 to them and run your 6x9's in the rear.. 6x9's have lotsa cone area anyway, that is ur best choice there.  Add an extra set of tweeters in your A-pillars..  but that'd be about it.

It'd be loud anyway.



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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 11:27 PM

Huh. I got so wrapped up in why that is such a bad plan I never actually answered the question.

I don't really want to.

You'd want to run your tweeters off of one pair of channels, and  the 4" speakers, wired together in parallel, with the other.  That way the same size speakers would be getting the same signal.  That is kinda important.

Of course, getting a signal that would do that properly is kinda another story.  Ya need a signal processor for something like that..



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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: kfr01
Date Posted: June 27, 2005 at 12:07 AM

Wrathchild:  what you're planning on doing simply will not sound good.  If all you want is loud, by all means, go nuts with speakers.  Stop asking us if it will sound good.  It won't. 

If you want your system to sound good focus on ONE driver per channel handling any given frequency range.  (e.g., one left tweeter plays the left highs, one left midrange playing the left mids, one left midbass playing the left midbass, etc.).  If you want loud focus on a mix of efficiency and power handling.  Spend good time and money on the installation.  Expect to drop a lot of money if you want high spl capability and good sound quality. 

Sedate correctly mentioned cancellation as the main reason for not trying what you are contemplating.  Other reasons include phase problems, timing issues, and tonal differences related to differing driver materials and capabilities. 

Look.  If you want loud sound that many would say sounds horrible, go with your plan.  If you want to learn how to do it right, start researching (a) some of the concepts mentioned above (b) speakers and amplifiers that will help you acheive your goal. 

Here's an option if you really want very loud while retaining sound quality.

Horn from ID:   https://www.cardomain.com/item/IDSCD2COMP
Buy 2 midbass drivers per side to be wired in parallel. 
Actively cross over.
EQ. 



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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder





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