Eclipse Aluminum TS Parameters?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=59260
Printed Date: May 04, 2024 at 10:57 PM

Topic: Eclipse Aluminum TS Parameters?

Posted By: sedate
Subject: Eclipse Aluminum TS Parameters?
Date Posted: July 11, 2005 at 11:02 PM

Heh guys:

I'm looking at replacing my 13W6 with a pair of 12's ... I was looking at a pair of Eclipse Aluminums... problem being fujitsu only sees fit to posting 4 T/S parameters.. would anyone know where I could get a full list?

Also, an XMAX of 1.4" translates to like 35mm... is that right?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Replies:

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:34 PM

What model# in the aluminums dude?

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:40 PM

I thought there was only the one..
https://www.eclipse-web.com/sw7100/sw7124.html

I guess the two ohm DVC variant.

Is 35mm Xmax right? That seems really high..?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:03 PM

Wiring the coils in series or parallel and for a 10" or 12"? There is a 7300 series of aluminum cone as well.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:07 PM

Two 2x2ohm woofers, each wired in series, then wired back down in parallel.

posted_image

They would be getting one of these.

https://www.jlaudio.com/amps/e1800.html#

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:09 PM

10" or 12" ? or do you need the parameters for both?

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:11 PM

Huh I didn't even see the 7300 models on that page. Ack. <rubs eyes> I hate my contacts.

Honestly, I can only wire as in the post above, so I guess it would be the ... 7100 series..?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:13 PM

Just the 12"... I've been toying with the notion of 3x10's but I don't think I've got the power for subs like that.

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:14 PM

SW7100dvc-t2

dcr 1.8 + 1.8

fs 25

qms 9.42

vas (cu.ft) 2.17

cms .2

mms 209.5

rms 3.47

x-mech 34

dia 216

sd 245

vd 33.52L

qes .44

re 3.6

le 2.2

z 2+2 ohms

bl 16.4

qts .42

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:15 PM

Was working with this exact sub on a box right now.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:29 PM

My W6 is dying. Good riddance. I couldn't justify replacing it but it is starting to make that "my voice coil is just beginning to give out" BIZZZIT on lower bass-notes. Ick. That thing really was a piece of crap.

I've seen you pushing Aluminum stuff before (actually, that got my attention in the first place, so cheers posted_image

) and I'm looking for a pair of 12's that will at least match the Kappa Perfect in SQ, and certainly blow away the W6 in output. That really shouldn't be to hard... So just looking at the Aluminum, it looks like it would fit the bill nicely. 450watts/rms with a 34mm excursion would have to ridiculously linear and LOUD...?
Just looking at the structure of the sub, it looks superior to the Kappa eh? I don't even think the W6's excursion is that high either.

How would it stand up to the W6 in SQ ya think? My sense of Eclipse (i've never owned/installed/used anything from them) is that they are a higher end brand... The w6 certainly lacked punch but it was ... velvety in detail subtleties that I've never noticed so low in the spectrum would be brought to an excellent reproduction.. It was a good taste I just want a bigger spoon ya know?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 2:02 PM

hehe, enjoy great sound is all I can say. posted_image

There is a crapload of engineering locked up in that eclipse sub... and it is all worth it.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 2:10 PM

Whoa. Lotsa sales guys told me the same thing about the w6 eh?
posted_image

Forbidden I just modeled that thing it looks freakin beautiful.

With a 2.5cft vented box and 2x3" ports tuned to 25 hrtz that thing looks like it would freakin play. What a pretty little hump.

A few questions about the TS parameters:
What units is the sd parameter in?
Do you have the Pe parameter?
Do you have the SPL/1w1m?

Thanks again man.

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 12, 2005 at 2:21 PM

1 watt spl =79.3

2.83v spl = 79.5

no pe rating given, same with the sd

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 13, 2005 at 9:04 PM

forbidden:

Two questions:

1)Isn't 2.83v spl mean 1watt @8ohms or 2watts to a car speaker? I mean.. what i mean is why isn't the 2.83v rating 3db lower than the 1watt rating?

2)Whoa 79.5 db thats .. well... okay WinISD has a pair of those putting out all of 110db MAX seeing 800-watts. Needless to say that isn't even as loud as my 13w6.. what gives? Would 2x12" Aluminums really be that quiet?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 13, 2005 at 9:49 PM

The numbers you are getting are anechoic. There will be considerable cabin gain - don't forget that. Depending on your car, there will be different gain curves, but EVERY car will have a gain curve.

-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 13, 2005 at 10:25 PM

Okay.. then both curves being anechoic, 2x12 Aluminums would *still* be quieter than the single w6? WinISD puts the w6 @ 116 db and the *pair* of 12's @ 110dB.. so in the same car I can still count on the Aluminums not even meeting the meager bar set by the w6?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: July 13, 2005 at 11:29 PM

ham fist wrote:

The numbers you are getting are anechoic. There will be considerable cabin gain - don't forget that. Depending on your car, there will be different gain curves, but EVERY car will have a gain curve.

Correct, but that is still HORRIBLE! 800w for 110dB. Damn that's pathetic. If I were the cheif engineer behind the design of that motor assembly i'd be embarrassed posted_image

sedate wrote:

1)Isn't 2.83v spl mean 1watt @8ohms or 2watts to a car speaker? I mean.. what i mean is why isn't the 2.83v rating 3db lower than the 1watt rating?

2.83v is the rating for an 8ohm speaker. So take the sensitivity of a speaker and subtract 3dB for every doubling of ohms and that'd be the equivolent efficiency of the higher ohm driver.

MEaning 95dB at 4ohms is equivolent to 92dB at 8ohms

-------------

Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: July 13, 2005 at 11:40 PM

poorman wrote:

If I were the cheif engineer behind the design of that motor assembly i'd be embarrassed

Quality often comes at a price.

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 12:15 AM

and how good is said quality?

Is the quality so good that you're willing to sacrifice basically all of your lowend response?

Hell, I only have two pairs of Infinity Kappa 6x9s installed on my Bose amps in the Q45 and the response averages a 115dB maximum. Note that these are only a ~$60 pair of speakers, and they sound great.

also, what is so special about the eclipse sub to warrant the horrid efficiency?

IMO the top two design concerns should be THD and efficiency, then comes low end extension.

It seems that eclipse focused a little bit too much on the THD factor and not enough on the other two

-------------

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 12:27 AM

BTW, anybody want to buy an Eclipse SW9122? Seriously, I am thinking of selling mine in favor of something a little more efficient... Maybe a pair of custom woofers (like so custom there are only FOUR in the WORLD) from my Harman engineer friend... this, and it's gonna FORCE me to install those TWO Altomobile UCSPro's I have in my garage, and FINISH this be-atch!

Grumblegrumblegrumble1600dollarsworthofEQsittinginmygarageforayearandahalf...dammit....

-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 2:31 AM

stevdart wrote:

Quality comes at a price.

Huh. Yea. It cost Fujitsu $500 of my stereo dollars.

Poormanq45, stevdart, and Hamfist:

This is riduclous. Can this *really* be right? According to WinISD it would take about 25000 watts to get 2x12 Eclipse Aluminums to match the output that 2x12 Kappa Perfects would have getting 800. That is, with the Eclipses' in a 2.75/cft vented enclosure and the Kappa's in a 2.2 sealed.
*I can technically explain this to myself but the answer just doesn't seem right in my own head.*

Are they *really* that ineffiecent? I mean.. how would *anyone* buy it? Like hamfist say... 4, 5... 30 horsepower to get those woofers to play? Huh?

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 8:32 AM

sedate wrote:

stevdart wrote:

Quality comes at a price.

Huh. Yea. It cost Fujitsu $500 of my stereo dollars.

Poormanq45, stevdart, and Hamfist:

This is riduclous. Can this *really* be right? According to WinISD it would take about 25000 watts to get 2x12 Eclipse Aluminums to match the output that 2x12 Kappa Perfects would have getting 800. That is, with the Eclipses' in a 2.75/cft vented enclosure and the Kappa's in a 2.2 sealed.
*I can technically explain this to myself but the answer just doesn't seem right in my own head.*

Are they *really* that ineffiecent? I mean.. how would *anyone* buy it? Like hamfist say... 4, 5... 30 horsepower to get those woofers to play? Huh?

Yep... they REALLY are that inefficient. I like them (to quote an earlier post) "cause excursion is sexy", but I also like the look just for me. I Thought it was a little weird when we Klippeled these drivers and came up with the efficiency numbers we did. It is kinda sad that Eclipse builds such cool stuff, then misleads the consumer with such inflated efficiency numbers... A four horsepower woofer... sweeeet. LOL

(I cannot say this trend occurs across the Eclipse line-up, I can only speak to the Ti series of woofers...)

-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 9:12 AM

[quote=ham]Yep... they REALLY are that inefficient. I like them (to quote an earlier post) "cause excursion is sexy", but I also like the look just for me. I Thought it was a little weird when we Klippeled these drivers and came up with the efficiency numbers we did. It is kinda sad that Eclipse builds such cool stuff, then misleads the consumer with such inflated efficiency numbers... A four horsepower woofer... sweeeet. LOL [/quote

Unfortunately, for this I MUST equate eclipse to audiobahn.

I just don't understand the point of even offering such an inefficient driver.

-------------

Posted By: rirolarma
Date Posted: July 14, 2005 at 11:48 AM

Was thinking to go with a SW7124 aluminium serie sub. Hope their efficency is little better as I plan to use it in a sealed enclosure with a audison LR600.5

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 15, 2005 at 10:51 AM

Rirolarma:

That is the exact sub we are talking about. That thing modeled in WinISD hits all of 110 dB.. and that is for a *pair* seeing 800 watts ... 79.5dB@1w/1m... no wonder Eclipse doesn't publish that spec!

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: July 15, 2005 at 4:13 PM

Yep, take a gander at what Infinity has to offer. Good SQ with a descent amount of SPL and fairly cheap(~$100)

-------------

Posted By: rirolarma
Date Posted: July 18, 2005 at 7:29 PM

Is there anybody here with SW7124 actually installed in is car? If so I would like to get is comment. I was also looking at Infinity Kappa serie of sub, but no dealer in my area

Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: July 18, 2005 at 7:57 PM

rirolarma:

There have got to be a dozen ppl on this board with Infinity Kappa Perfect stuff either in their cars now, or had Kappa stuff at one point... I don't believe I've ever seen a negative comment about that gear on here..

You really ought start and stop at Sounddomain.com for Infinity stuff.

https://www.cardomain.com/shopbrand/Infinity

I wish I could point ya somewhere for the Eclipse gear.

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview