personal experiences with online vendors

These are just some experiences I have had with online vendors. Figured I would share them.

(-) onlinecarstereo.com - They were nice enough to "upgrade" my order of a svc 4-ohm infinity sub to a dvc 4-ohm without telling me. Then when I called, the customer service rep didn't know the difference between 4 ohm and 2 ohm and couldn't figure out why there was a problem. Then it was a nightmare getting a refund for the sub. I decided to give them one more chance and placed another order for a different sub that was listed in stock on their site. At least this time they called me before they "upgraded" my order on a out of stock item that they had listed as in stock.

(+/-) sounddomain.com - They seem like a very good vendor, but the one order I have placed with them so far got screwed up. They had a sub listed as being in stock on their site and I ordered it. Well it seems that they forgot to show that it was out of stock and I didn't want to wait for two weeks so I cancelled my order. I'll probably order from them again though as their customer service reps were very nice and they have some very good prices.

(+) thezeb.com - Excellent customer service, good prices, no problems whatsoever and I have placed many orders through them. They even let me make an exchange on an amp that I had ordered and decided I didn't need after all.

(+)crutchfield.com - The best of the best. These guys are by far one of the best retail businesses I have ever dealt with for anything.  They will bend over backwards for you and are always a pleasure to deal with. Their prices may not be the lowest, but you know if anything ever goes wrong they will take care of you. In my opinion paying a little extra to order from crutchfield is well worth it.

Seeing That Ive bought from Sounddomain, Zeb and Crutchfield in the past, I can safley saw that I was pleased with them, even thought I hate Paying authorized prices

Now some others Ive had good dealings with are:

(+) Ikesound.com - Since there a 10 minute drive from my house they never screw up an order, they know I can kill them with ease

(+) Soniclectronx.com - I give them a plus due to the fact I have dealt with ther owner Nate Victor many times and hes has taken care of me personally when something went wrong, plus hes has 4 open lawsuites against Manafactures for not provided warranty service to unauthorized products,  which I believe he will win in the end, it will be a long process but it will help us all in the future

Later all

--Skold

tcss]M wrote:

---

st be the weekend coming up or something. How would it " help all of us " if somebody sues to force a manufacturer to warranty product bought from an un authorized dealer? I can only see two things happening here. First, frivilous litagation causing prices to rise and second, idiots with no product training selling stuff they know nothing about. ( the difference between 2 and 4 ohms maybe? )

---

Its all about being fair to the consumer, we as consumers are entitled to shop around and always get the best price, so why punish us for not wanting to get ripped off.

Thats my view on it

--Skold

Skold, I have much respect for your opinions on this board but I don't understand the " paid in full before it leaves the factory" part. The retailer is the final seller and the manufacturer should be able to determine who that retailer is. If JL prints on all their boxes " Product warranty valid only if purchased from an authorized JL AUDIO dealer" why should they have to do warranty repairs on product two stepped from some one else?

PS: If you're paying double or triple on car audio gear the sky is a different color in your world, the margins in car stereo are nowhere near double or triple.

PSS: I take GREAT exception to " How is that any different than most stores nowadays". I'm a professional.

tcss]< wrote:

---

r> PS: If you're paying double or triple on car audio gear the sky is a different color in your world, the margins in car stereo are nowhere near double or triple.

---

tcss]S wrote:

---

old, Is this a retailer or a distributer who is buying this for $350? If it's a distributor he's not selling it for $750 to $999. If it's a retailer he's not buying it for $350. You have elimenated one person between manufacturer and consumer. The sky is bright blue out here in Central Caly.

---

So theres alittle on how us shady business people work "J/K"

Have Fun

--Skold

P.S. Sorry for getting of topic guys if anyone wants to delete all my post and clean up the thread please do
As for online shopping I get you some more reviews later this weekend

I think it's kind of funny how the forum group gets so jaded about this stuff.   However rarely does any of them have any experience running a shop.  They wonder why a brick and mortar has the audacity to charge so much when the online guy can sell it for so cheap.  And they wonder why the manufacturer prices MSRP so high on a product that couldn't cost them that much to build; right?  Well I don't mean to be rude, but those are very ignorant points of view.  For instance, does anyone know how much money JL paid for tooling costs on the W7?  I'll bet you the baskets alone were in the 200+ thousand dollar range.  That's not to buy all the baskets they need.  That's just to tool up the mold to make them.  Most of the parts on the W7 are not off-the-shelf items.  JL had to pay tooling costs for almost every part of that sub design.  Also keep in mind that the pole piece is machined to get the cooling holes in it.  That costs a great deal more.  Plus there are quite a few innovative inventions used on that sub, many of them holding a patent.  R&D to get those designs, as well as apply for all those patents can be very costly.  And all of this must be added to the price of the sub.

Now I know that there are a lot of shop owners on this forum.  I'd love to have them comment on the "overpricing" they apparently do.  I'll bet you guys that they aren't making a "steal" like you guys think.  After all they have to pay for things like their install shop and store front, knowledgable/skilled employees, and quite a few other things that most of you wouldn't expect.  Also keep in mind that they are in business to make a profit.  And you guys also forget the many benifits that they offer that you just don't get by buying unauthorized.  For instance, most people don't know how to install their own stuff.  This includes many of the people on the forums, even though they won't admit it (even to themselves).  Being the person that heads up the warranty department here at Adire, I have personal experience with that.   I personally think it is a huge gamble to purchase product from these places.  And I work way too hard for my money to throw it away like that.  This thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't a gamble.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

12V_REP wrote:

---

Skold, I too think the double to triple point is a little off. Most dealers work on a 25-30% margins on just the retail side. Now some manufacturers have it set up where you can make a little more, but two to three times is not possible. Back in the early 90's you could almost double your money, but that day is long gone. And the other problem with buying online is when the end user has a problem and expects the local "Authorized Dealer" to handle the problem. That happens more times than not it seems.

---

So you can seen when one is paying a distributors price but selling at a retailers price it easly doubles or triples the margin
Trust me Ive yelled at him on this before hes a multi-millionaire from real estate ventures and captial investments, but hes always told me if he didnt do it , someone else down the block would, and thats how you become a millionaire, Im slowy getting there .. bleeding the wifes company dry But I'll have my first million in 634 years...

Steven Kephart wrote:

---

I think it's kind of funny how the forum group gets so jaded about this stuff.   However rarely does any of them have any experience running a shop.  They wonder why a brick and mortar has the audacity to charge so much when the online guy can sell it for so cheap.  And they wonder why the manufacturer prices MSRP so high on a product that couldn't cost them that much to build; right?  Well I don't mean to be rude, but those are very ignorant points of view.  For instance, does anyone know how much money JL paid for tooling costs on the W7?  I'll bet you the baskets alone were in the 200+ thousand dollar range.  That's not to buy all the baskets they need.  That's just to tool up the mold to make them.  Most of the parts on the W7 are not off-the-shelf items.  JL had to pay tooling costs for almost every part of that sub design.  Also keep in mind that the pole piece is machined to get the cooling holes in it.  That costs a great deal more.  Plus there are quite a few innovative inventions used on that sub, many of them holding a patent.  R&D to get those designs, as well as apply for all those patents can be very costly.  And all of this must be added to the price of the sub.

Now I know that there are a lot of shop owners on this forum.  I'd love to have them comment on the "overpricing" they apparently do.  I'll bet you guys that they aren't making a "steal" like you guys think.  After all they have to pay for things like their install shop and store front, knowledgable/skilled employees, and quite a few other things that most of you wouldn't expect.  Also keep in mind that they are in business to make a profit.  And you guys also forget the many benifits that they offer that you just don't get by buying unauthorized.  For instance, most people don't know how to install their own stuff.  This includes many of the people on the forums, even though they won't admit it (even to themselves).  Being the person that heads up the warranty department here at Adire, I have personal experience with that.   I personally think it is a huge gamble to purchase product from these places.  And I work way too hard for my money to throw it away like that.  This thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't a gamble.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

---

Thank you, Steven, thank you! You indirectly answered the challenge that I layed out to these guys some time ago and not one of them answered.

Any time someone complained about price (which invariably meant they were bashing JL Audio, in most cases), I challenged them to tell me why JL Audio gear cost so much. Not one person has ever responded until now. Companies have to pay for many things, from tooling costs, materials, labor, patents, rent, engineering, etc. etc. Some companies have to pay more than others depending on how they run their business and make their products. As Steven points out, JL Audio and a few other audio companies go the extra mile to provide some of the best audio products that you can buy. But providing these "high-end" products comes at a price. If you're willing to pay for it, good for you. If not, that's fine too, but don't make that the basis for trashing a company that others piggy-back off of so they can sell at a cheaper price. And believe me, this happens more than you would think.

I'll give you an example - I work in the automotive industry with one of the Big 3 as a salaried employee. Our salary structure is higher than the foreign competitors. Because of that (although certainly not the only factor), the cost of a vehicle that we make is going to be higher than a foreign-made vehicle. Which is one reason why people buy foreign versus domestic - they don't want to pay the money for a vehicle that is just as good and does exactly the same things, it just costs more. Some people just aren't willing to pay more money for two like things. And some people are willing to take the hit on quality or innovation or what have you compared to how much money is going to have to come out of their pockets. Just something to think about...