Adire Extremis 6.8 Questions
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=62793
Printed Date: May 09, 2024 at 11:28 PM
Topic: Adire Extremis 6.8 Questions
Posted By: Master Asylum
Subject: Adire Extremis 6.8 Questions
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 1:03 AM
Ok I am trying to get going towards improved interior sound. I think I'm gonna do the setup suggested a while back with Tweeters/Midranges/Midbass/Subs. Concentration is gonna be the Hi's/Mid's for now. Subs are gonna be put on hold, the L5s are good enough to keep me happy until I got a hell a lot for higher end. Basically I am looking at the Adire Extremis 6.8 Midbass Drivers for the midbass. 100wRMS and it has an 8 ohm impedance. Obv I'm not gonna look at pushing it that hard, but I want a decent setup. Alto was suggested there, and to be honest, I'd like to, but convenience is necessary. Right now getting Adire product lines is hard enough(over an hour drive to the nearest dealer, which has no demos.) Now according to Stephen on here the enclosure for it will matter. I tried to ask him what would be best. Personally I'd like to stick with sealed. In which case, how do I find out how much airspace would be needed? That leads me to the next question, location. I got 6x9s in the back that will get yanked, knowing this is kinda midbass, I was wondering, if I rebuilt the panel for it and designed a sealed compartment in the holes, would that work fine? How much of an advantage would a kick panel have over this spot? Remember, I got VERY little floor room. I'm also going to look at new door panels, if they'll work better there than the rear deck I'd be content on that. Just wanting to get an idea. The kick panel is a concern for me since there is little floor room in this Monte Carlo. Plus I'd KINDA like to put the tweeters/midrange drivers up on the dash or something. Basically I'm just getting an idea of location/amount of custom work I'll put in to get this in optimal/feasible positions in the car. I want very little to no back fill. Thanks for any help! Current List:
Tweeter/s: Morel Supreme 110 Soft Dome (I have heard metal and soft dome, screw metal, I hate it.)
Midrange: Usher 9845 2" Textile Dome (Good price, liking the sounds of the info/recommendations.)
Midbass: Adire Extremis 6.8 (I like my lows? :) )
Sub/s: JL 13w7(2) or Adire 12" Tumults(2) [We'll see if I like the Extremis enough. I'd prefer to hear a demo of the XBL2 Tech)
Interior Amp/s: Open to suggestion to properly power. I don't want anything severely deafening, but I want it to be able to get loud when I crank it.
Sub Amp/s: 1000/1 for w7s or open to suggestions. Obviously amps are still open, I want to know what I am going to need to power first. Then I'll look at best fit for powering. :) ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Replies:
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 4:55 AM
Check out the sticky thread above about advanced front speaker setups. It should give you a direction to go with based on your skills and commitment. Once you figure out what you want to do, then we can help you with choosing the right speakers and how to install them. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 10:31 AM
I would not waste my money on the Morel Supreme tweeters in a car. Indeed, I will never again waste my money on them for any use. They are fine tweeters, but way overpriced and entirely too fickle and no clear benefit to justify their over-the-top price, IMO. Any detail or response extension improvements they may claim to offer over standard tweets would be lost in a car's interior anyway, so you are unlikely to hear that extra $100 no matter what you do. Plus since they are so picky the crossover can be a bitch to get right. Go for a much less critical tweeter in a car. I have never heard the Usher dome mid so cannot comment on it except to recommend that you listen to them before you install them. Do you like the sound of dome mids? I do not, so maybe this is just my bias showing. IMO a much better match to the excellent Extremis driver would be the CSS WR125. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 12:53 PM
Or just run the Extremis as a midrange as well. That will GREATLY simplify the crossover design as well as installation. And to be honest, the modest increases the added midrange would provide would be lost in the car environment as well IMO. Well maybe except for the increased output, but then I've never heard a two-way set that couldn't get loud enough to damage your hearing anyway. So that's just adding more potential to do harm. In vehicles where space is limited I prefer K.I.S.S. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 1:47 PM
I absolutely agree, Steven. I am loving the vocal characteristics of the Extremis more and more in the 2-ways I built with them (crossed at about 3KHz.) The Extremis is one of the most outstanding drivers I have heard in many years, and I am liking them a lot more than I like my much more expensive Revelators. I know of at least one person using a single Extremis in his car as a SUBWOOFER ported at 40Hz, and the amount of output is pretty damn amazing. But back to the question at hand, a 2-way in a car with an Extremis crossed at about 3-4KHz to a good car audio soft dome would be a great component set... assuming one has the mounting depth for the woofer. By the way, Mr. Kephart, what's the status of the rumored 4-ohm car-audio Extremis or is that just an unconfirmed rumor? ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 5:25 PM
It's not a rumor, there are actually prototypes out there. But to be honest, I have no idea on when they will be available. And thanks for your kind words about the Extremis. It's funny because on another forum we have a guy (who has never heard or played with them BTW) claiming that they are just mediocre speakers. I think he's basing it on those nearfield measurements that showed up a while ago. Anyway it's good to hear feedback from someone with your experience and knowledge. Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 6:08 PM
Hmm, Jon Marsh?  If so I'm not surprised. I'm not just puffing about how nice I think they sound. If I didn't like them I wouldn't say anything! ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 17, 2005 at 6:30 PM
No, the starter of this thread: https://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=225671 But he's basing his position on Marsh's measurements I believe. BTW, you have mail.  Steven Kephart Adire Audio -------------
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 18, 2005 at 11:24 AM
I love it when people rattle on about things they know nothing about. Oh well, the Internet is full of useless opinions. All i know is the Extremis sounds great and is an example of the outstanding engineering and attention to quality and performance common to all Adire loudspeakers that I have ever heard. A highly recommended driver for any application. And that's MY opinion! ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 18, 2005 at 3:58 PM
DYohn] wrote:
I love it when people rattle on about things they know nothing about. Oh well, the Internet is full of useless opinions. All i know is the Extremis sounds great and is an example of the outstanding engineering and attention to quality and performance common to all Adire loudspeakers that I have ever heard. A highly recommended driver for any application. And that's MY opinion!
Can I get an "Amen"?!?!
The INTERNET??? Hell, this BOARD!!! (lately) ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 18, 2005 at 4:14 PM
Yeah, our salesman likes to call it the "instant expert". They like to brag about how rosey the bathroom smells after they use it (if you catch my drift), and you just want to run over to them and pull the nose plugs out of their nose.
-------------
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 19, 2005 at 1:18 AM
Ok, so I'll scratch the mids since apparently the Extremis is fairly strong. Its not like I can't add down the road. Now recommendations to fit in the place of the Morels? I mean honestly, budget=good. $100 less would be stellar as long as they'll give a pretty damn close performance. I personally like the R Type Alpine speakers(atleast in comparison to the power series metal domes) a LOT. And I'd say something similar or a bit better might do me. And honestly could use suggestions for amps to drive. I'm thinking this now: Interiors:
High: Undecided. I want a good soft dome similar or better than RTypes.
Mid: Extremis 6.8
Amp/s: Not Determined Also what else will I need to properly run this? Crossovers for example? Edit: CSS WR125, would that be for a tweeter replacement? And isn't like 4.5" kinda big for that? Just inquiring. If it'll do the same for less $$ then I'm entirely for it. And can someone explain to me why I'm using home audio equip? :P And will they work well enough with the amps I can get? I'd say logically yes, and you guys wouldn't suggest it if no. But I don't wanna find out some work to be done down the road. :P ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 19, 2005 at 12:09 PM
The WR125 is more of a midrange than a tweet, although there is a full-range version called the FR125. There is a good tweeter discussion in THIS thread. As long as you're looking at standard mounting, Aurum Cantus makes a very nice ribbon, the G2si that might sound good in a car. Al over at Raw Acoustics has a version of this ribbon called the RA104.5 with improved dispersion characteristics that could conceivable work better in a car. Either matches well with an Extemis or one of the CSS drivers, and there are kits matching them. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 19, 2005 at 11:22 PM
Can someone PLEASE explain what the hell this ribbon stuff is? I have NEVER heard of it before...
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 12:26 AM
A ribbon (a TRUE ribbon) driver is a very thin piece of aluminum, shaped like aa accordioned ribbon, suspended on each end. It is an EXTREMELY low impedance (effectively a dead short), and this is why you will ALWAYS see a true ribbon driver impedance matched with a transformer.
A true ribbon is an AMAZINGLY good sounding driver (I've never heard an awful one), but can be quite difficult to implement well - physical placement of the driver is critical! The car is RARELY (if ever) the best place to try implementing a true ribbon driver. They are VERY deep, and usually quite heavy.
Sometimes called a ribbon, but really a "Planar Magnetic" driver would be the Bohlender Graebner or the Swan drivers. These are drivers where the diaphragm is suspended on all four sides of the radiating surface, with the voice coil layed out flat over the surface of it.
The benefit to this is usually power handling, directly drivable by the amplifier - no transformer, and (from my experience) much easier, and wider range, implementation.
Both types are (generally speaking) very open, light, and transparent in their presentations. Vertical dispersion suffers but the horizontal dispersion is usually quite good. Ribbons are worse with vertical dispersion than are PMs, as most PMs are usually wider than the actual ribbon of a ribbon driver.
True ribbons will usually have MUCH better on-axis high frequency response, due to their MUCH lighter moving mass. They must also be installed with proper attention to up/down orientation of the ribbon, as they are ONLY suspended top and bottom.
-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 12:31 AM
A ribbon tweeter is different from conventional dome tweeters in a way that its diaphragm is a ribbon of metal suspended between two magnets (or in the center air gap of one magnet.) They do not have seperate voice coils as the ribbon is the voice coil. There are several advantages to ribbons VS conventional tweeters, and a couple of disadvantages. First the disadvantages, a ribbon has relatively higher cost and can be much more fragile. But some of the many advantages include: 1. lower mass, hence higher efficiency, lower fs, wider frequency response and better transient response 2. better heat dissipation, hence better reliability and less thermal compression 3. lower inductance, hence flatter impedance and frequency response 4. homogeneous diaphragm movement, hence low distortion 5. a "lighter, more airy" sound, due to the extended high end response and very, very fast transient response time Ribbon fans swear they will never use another type of tweeter. For many years they were simply too fragile for automotive use, but I have heard of people having good results with the G2 series. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 12:36 AM
Hey Dave, get outta my mind, ok? ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 1:49 AM
Wow, thanks for the great responses again guys. I'll mull it over and make my decision, sounds like a plan tho.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 8:50 AM
DYohn] wrote:
Hey Dave, get outta my mind, ok?
I thought it was MY day to play with the brain... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 10:03 AM
haemphyst wrote:
DYohn] wrote:
Hey Dave, get outta my mind, ok?
I thought it was MY day to play with the brain...
OK, you go ahead. I seldom use it. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: September 20, 2005 at 2:51 PM
You could always do horns. I would suggest ribbons too, but they usually like to be crossed over fairly high.
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 21, 2005 at 12:28 AM
Yeah, I talked to an installer at work today and he said something about that but also said horns would be like incredibly impressive to get it to work in a car. I might look into maybe sticking with soft domes. Supposedly the Type X speakers are really good. Obv I got a concern because well, looking at T-X sets, well, man that is costly. I might just try the G2 ribbons maybe, kinda worried about stability in a daily driver. I'd rather not need to pay to replace frequently. Otherwise I might just stick with maybe something similar to Type-Rs... Or a comparable soft dome.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: September 21, 2005 at 12:22 PM
Once you install ribbons correctly, they shouldn't have to be replaced, just like other tweets.
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 21, 2005 at 9:20 PM
My concern is how fragile are they? I mean a decent bump gonna hurt them or anything?
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: September 22, 2005 at 10:16 AM
Shouldn't if you have mounted firmly where they don't vibrate all over the damn place.
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 22, 2005 at 10:35 PM
Ok so... Highs: (2) Arum Cantus G2si Ribbon Tweeter ($99.99/each)
Mids: (2) Adire Extremis 6.8 Midwoofer ($99.99/each)
Low: Undecided High Amp: Undecided
Mid Amp: Undecided
Low Amp: Undecided Now Dyohn said something about kits matching the G2 with the Extremis? What's that mean? Any from here, what would be a best suggestion for a strong amp? I want something really clean. Honestly NO clue what would do for the G2, since it is 6 ohm, and that is odd for me to figure out. (Would love help in learning how to get an idea of what would be good.) As for the Extremis, I was told before it depends on the enclosure. I'm assuming the enclosure is going to be sealed. I mean this ultimately will be determined by the positioning. Any suggestions? Kick panel space is fairly limited but I guess possible. Essentially, I've got the components picked out, what next? ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 23, 2005 at 9:13 PM
Any advice here guys? Suddenly like died and I really need the help.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 23, 2005 at 11:35 PM
What I meant is that companies like Raw Acoustics and Exodus Audio are doing home speaker DIY kits using these (and other) drivers. This means they can sell you the speakers with a pre-designed and tested crossover, which is actually the hardest part of matching any speakers together to form a system. For car mounting, you wouldn't need to build a cabinet. Mounting Extremis woofers in kick panels would be a great idea. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 24, 2005 at 1:43 AM
How great would the kicks be? I mean I am highly concerned about the lack of foot space down there. :/ If that is significantly helpful, I'll look it over and see if I can properly design a kick for it. How much air space would I be needing for a sealed enclosure?
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 24, 2005 at 10:34 AM
Recommended sealed enclosure for a single Extremis is 9.5 litres (0.33 cuft.) You can mount them IB in your doors if you want and they should work fine (as long as you have the mounting depth.) They really only need around 50 watts. As far as the tweeters, you will need a properly designed passive crossover which will take their impedance into consideration, unless you plan to go active. Then just use Ohm's Law to calculate the effective output of your amp channels into their load. Most tweeters require less than 20 watts. The Belle amp you have in your sig line would be a fine amplifier for this setup, and you'd have your sub channel too. Realize if you bi-amp with active crossovers, your 4-channels will be needed for the front set, but you probably won't need or want rear speakers with this system so it shouldn't matter. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 24, 2005 at 11:03 PM
Yeah I am pretty much planning on scrapping the rear speakers or maybe run the 6x9s off the deck for "fill" (meh). Not a huge concern to be honest. :) I will also be switching the Eclipse unit over to Hi/Mid/Low setup instead of F/R/Sub to do this project and I believe that will do well. So basically: Highs: (2) Arum Cantus G2si Ribbon Tweeter ($99.99/each)
Mids: (2) Adire Extremis 6.8 Midwoofer ($99.99/each)
Low: Undecided High/Mid Amp: Memphis Belle 1300
Low Amp: Undecided What exactly do IB mean? I am thinking free air(infinite baffle), but not sure. As for depth I'll check that out, if anyone has the depth spec handy that'd be great so I can look. Also what are the outside dimensions for mounting bracket? For the tweeters, if I did the IB setup in the doors, how would I fit the tweeter in properly on axis and such? And how would I go about getting a proper crossover for this or understanding? I mean basically, this is stuff I haven't even remotely touched. Crossovers are pretty much out there except for dealing with them on my HU minorly... And I understand LPF and HPF basically... AS for how to figure out which I would need and such... That confuses me, and taking into consideration their impedance level? Sry, I'm just VERY unexperienced here and I don't wanna invest money into something and screw them up. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 25, 2005 at 2:54 AM
Master Asylum wrote:
Yeah I am pretty much planning on scrapping the rear speakers or maybe run the 6x9s off the deck for "fill" (meh). Not a huge concern to be honest. :) I will also be switching the Eclipse unit over to Hi/Mid/Low setup instead of F/R/Sub to do this project and I believe that will do well. So basically:
That will probably be a better setup, IMHO. Not a huge fan of rear fill, either, and mine are probably coming out sometime soon as well. (Anybody reading want to buy a pair of bi-ampable (modified, slightly, by me, for this functionality) Eclipse 6993 6x9's? Still on superb condition, and perfectly functioning as well...) I don't even have them connected anymore. The only reason they are still in the car is because it is such a bear to get them out of the rear deck of an '01 Civic.
Master Asylum wrote:
Highs: (2) Arum Cantus G2si Ribbon Tweeter ($99.99/each)
Mids: (2) Adire Extremis 6.8 Midwoofer ($99.99/each)
Low: Undecided
High/Mid Amp: Memphis Belle 1300
Low Amp: Undecided
Mmmmm... Not really sure how well that particualr combo is really going to work in the car. The ribbon beams on the vertical too soon to be useful at higher frequencies. This can be overcome by raising it up (WAY up) in the doors, but it might be just too long a ribbon to be practical in the car. And as capable as the Extremis is, I don't know how well it will do - sound-power wise - to cross it over high enough to match with the tweeter cross-in frequency. If REALLY set on using them, here's is a source for the ribbons for a 20 dollar savings each...
Master Asylum wrote:
What exactly do IB mean? I am thinking free air(infinite baffle), but not sure. As for depth I'll check that out, if anyone has the depth spec handy that'd be great so I can look. Also what are the outside dimensions for mounting bracket?
Yep, Infinite Baffle. They are, from back of magnet to back of mounting flange, the depth is 90.5mm or 3.63 inches. It's a deep driver, but don't let it scare you away - it's a GREAT driver, too... Mounting hole diameter is 5.79 inches, and flange diameter is 6.95 inches.
Master Asylum wrote:
For the tweeters, if I did the IB setup in the doors, how would I fit the tweeter in properly on axis and such? And how would I go about getting a proper crossover for this or understanding? I mean basically, this is stuff I haven't even remotely touched. Crossovers are pretty much out there except for dealing with them on my HU minorly... And I understand LPF and HPF basically... AS for how to figure out which I would need and such... That confuses me, and taking into consideration their impedance level? Sry, I'm just VERY unexperienced here and I don't wanna invest money into something and screw them up.
As I have mentioned, there is NO WAY to install a true ribbon in a car and have it be completely reliable. Being as it is suspended on JUST THE ENDS, it will sag, if not installed perfectly vertically. This sag COULD eventually get so bad as to actually touch the motor structure, causing buzzing or other nastiness.
Looking back at the limitations of this particular tweeter for car use, I think I would try to locate a good dynamic dome tweeter. The Morel MDT-30 would be a fine choice. Also, the Vifa D-26 would be a DAMN fine choice...
Just some different options as avaialabilities... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 25, 2005 at 5:03 PM
*sigh* So hard to decide. Because that is obv a good arguement with the mounting issue... If that is going to be a problem, I can't really afford to currently drop $200 on something I'll be switching back from in the end due to functionality issues. But as for the other recommended tweeters, I didn't see any info on them. I'll search a lil more in a few mins to see if I can find them. And well, to be honest, i'm still confused. It says fabric diaphragm meaning? I mean honestly, I'd like to stay budgetted for now and when I'm a little better set I can test out something like the G2... So obv running a little cheaper is good if it will give me a better sound(for me) than metal dome tweeters. I mean at this point I am probably going to just get a couple 6.5 R Types to temp replace my interiors unless I can do something like 250-300 for a complete switch. ($200 for extremis and $25-50 for each tweeter) Basically I'm having a huge amount of trouble deciding, and not having any local demo sucks. The mounting issue is a huge concern at this point, but I have also heard some good about the ribbons in my friend's sound system he has. I'm gonna try hearing it sometime possibly, but his wife doesn't really like me, so we'll see.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 25, 2005 at 6:30 PM
If you really want to use the Extremis and you want a good matched tweeter and a properly designed crossover, buy a set of Exodus Audio Kit 61's. Everything you'll need and you can toss the ports into a box for a future project. If that's too rich for your blood, or if you plan to bi-amp and use active crossovers, buy the Extremis and a couple of decent soft dome tweeters. "Fabric" means the tweeter is soft dome, which provides a smoother, less harsh sound than poly or metal dome tweeters. If you do bi-amp be sure to pay careful attention to the power rating of the tweeter and it's recommended high-pass crossover point. (Realize that different manufacturers list tweeter power ratings differently. Some rate at "total system power" like 100 watts RMS, and others give "actual power" like 12 watts RMS. The ones with the seemingly larger system power rating assume you will crossover at the recommended point or higher and are telling you the total system power, with 75% going to the woofer. Almost all tweeters are actually rated for less than 20 watts themselves.) And, if all this is simply too confusing (and building a DIY component set can be) simply buy a good quality set of components and be done with it! ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 26, 2005 at 10:38 PM
Ok I'm probably gonna take the approach of the Extremis combined with like the soft dome setup. As for the two recommended by haemphyst, I can't really get any good power rating info on the Morel or the Vifa. Would nominal power be the equivalent of RMS/Continous figures? Any opinions on either really? Or another really good soft dome out there? Hell if I could get the R-Type by itself, I might go there, but meh. I'd rather see what there is with less car audio name like a Morel or Vifa (At least I've never heard of them.). ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 26, 2005 at 11:53 PM
Morel and Vifa are two of the premier speaker manufacturers in the world. The MDT 30 is a fantastic sounding tweeter. The Vifa D-26 or 27 series is an excellent suggestion as well. The Morel is rated for up to 200 watts system power above 2000Hz, and the Vifa is rated for up to 100 watts system power above 1500Hz. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 27, 2005 at 12:01 AM
So.... Highs: (2) Morel MDT-30 ($58/each)
Mids: (2) Adire Extremis 6.8 Midwoofer ($99.99/each)
Low: Undecided High/Mid Amp: Memphis Belle 1300
Low Amp: Undecided You are saying if it is crossed over at 2000Hz, which should be fine with the Extremis shouldn't it? Using a bi-amp setup for these, what is the next thing I will need to look at? And will my amp still work fine? Some sort of crossover for the tweeters(passive maybe?) that'll block anything below 2000Hz? And then a LPF or HPF combined with an electronic for the Extremis? Edit: Um, duh... HPF for the tweeters for 2 channels. Stupid me. :/ So basically either a HPF or LPF for the extremis then a passive crossover to cover the opposite side? Also, what would be the suggested range for the extremis? ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 27, 2005 at 5:52 PM
I am currently using a set of 2-way speakers based on the Extremis crossed over at 3100Hz, which means it is handling everything below that frequency (the bulk of the musical spectrum.) You can use these guys crossed anywhere up to 5KHz if you want to. Go to the Adire web site and download the spec sheet for them if you have not done so. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: OCURIEL
Date Posted: September 27, 2005 at 7:04 PM
Here is a review on that morel tweeter.
https://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Tweeter4/tweeter4index.htm[/URL]
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 28, 2005 at 12:15 PM
If you run your Extremis at 3100 and below, what happens if you encounter low Hz signals? I mean 30hz is low, but how damaging if it is encountered? I mean basically I'd kinda like to run it crossed over at 50hz and 3100Hz(Unless there is a reason anyone would have a problem with that?) Now figuring a crossover for the tweeter I'd say I'd do something like maybe around 2000hz? I mean honestly not sure if it'd be better of cutting them at the same frequency with a high drop off electronically or just do passive crossover like with a capacitor. I'd kinda like to do it electronically to get the experience with it a little but I dunno how much that would cost. So... Highs: (2) Morel MDT-30 ($58/each)
Xover: 2000hz HPF? (Undecided.)
Mids: (2) Adire Extremis 6.8 Midwoofer ($99.99/each)
Xover: 50hz to 3100hz
Low: (2) 12" Kicker L5 Subwoofers (PURCHASED)
Xover: Gotta check my amp, I didn't install. Probably around 125hz/160hz LPF area.
Amp: Memphis Belle 1300 It looks like I am coming along with the plan thanks to you guys and I'm learning a bit. Though to be honest, these graphs I've seen I don't really understand. :/ But again, I appreciate the help and patience guys, very much so. The next thing I need to figure out after the crossovers are decided, I am to account for the impedance. Meaning if the driver is 8 ohm, to do a passive crossover, I need to take in effect at what frequency it affects at an 8 ohm impedance, correct? ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: September 28, 2005 at 1:56 PM
The crossover frequency between adjacent drivers (sub woofer to woofer, woofer to tweeter) should be the same. If you use 2KHz for the tweeter use 2KHz for the woofer. (2KHz is at the ragged edge for the Morel. I recommend if you do this to use at least a 3rd order crossover slope.) The Extremis can reproduce sound down to about 33Hz, but if you use a subwoofer, use the same HP setting on your mains as your LP on the sub. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 28, 2005 at 11:03 PM
Erm, ok. So I'm going to crossover at like 3000hz for mid/hi. As for the low/mid I'll probably crossover similar to where it is now. I will see as to what that is. Wjat os a 3rd order crossover slope? ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 1:08 AM
Master Asylum wrote:
Erm, ok. So I'm going to crossover at like 3000hz for mid/hi. As for the low/mid I'll probably crossover similar to where it is now. I will see as to what that is. Wjat os a 3rd order crossover slope?
Go down to 2500@18dB (third order) This'll give you better sound power, and you'll still have plenty of capacity with those tweeters.
As for mid-bass to sub? I'd go NO HIGHER than 80Hz, and if you are willing to play arouns with some EQ and crossover slope, you could probably get down to 50 (even better AFAIAC).
A crossover "order" is a 6dB slope. Each order is a multiple of 6 - 4th order would be 24dB, and so on. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 11:00 AM
Ah ok, got that now. Ok so I'm gonna have the lows crossed over at like 80hz and my mids will stop there too, what order for that? And what is a good way to determine which order is best? After that the mid/high we can do at like 2500hz on 3rd order, so what would I need for that?
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 2:42 PM
I'd say start with a 24db/oct. crossover, and work down from there if it dosen't sound right.
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 11:23 PM
Erm, the higher the order, the more defined of a crossover, correct? ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 11:50 PM
What do you mean by defined?
-------------
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 29, 2005 at 11:52 PM
Like a sharper division I guess. Like higher order means the drop off after that frequency is that much more severe? Or if someone could explain, that'd be great.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 30, 2005 at 12:48 AM
It refers to the roll off, in dBs per octave. If your flat (or 0dB or reference) frequency is, let's say 1000Hz, a 6dB slope means that at 500Hz, the output of the driver is 6dB lower than the 1000Hz frequency. 2nd order, or 12dB would be 12dB "down" at 500Hz and a 3rd order would be 18dB "down" at 500Hz.
-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 30, 2005 at 12:59 AM
Ok, so... I looked up octave(why I didn't before, not sure.) I'm guessing THIS is the best definition to use... The interval between any two frequencies having a ratio of 2 to 1. That would mean something like 1000 is an octave lower than 2000, which is an octave lower than 4k, and so on. 500 is an octave lower than 1000, which 250 would be the next octave down? Please correct me if this grasp is wrong. Assuming I have that right, I wanna get the tweeter at 2500 with a 3rd order crossover. (What exactly would be the reasoning for the 4th order recommended otherwise?) Now as for the lows, 80hz with another 3rd order? or 4th order? And for the mids, yeah... I was wondering, what if I set my HU up to pro mode that looks at the pre-outs as hi/mid/low instead. If I used the crossover there for low/mid/hi, would that make it REALLY easy for getting it all done? I mean theoretically if this works(I could be just out there, but its worth the idea) I could just match the crossover for the lows and his to the same as the HU. Then like on the mid use that crossover and have no crossover on the amp. If this wouldn't work, why exactly? And is there ANY way this WOULD work? I am kinda assuming that crossovers have a default setting like eqs. ------------- 1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: September 30, 2005 at 3:13 AM
You are correct about actaves. A steeper slope will generally reduce lobing issues. There is no way to tell you how to go about this as it really depends on how the speakers measure while in your vehicle. There might be a crossover frequency or slope required that your processing does not offer. And if that is the case, then you might have to tweak things to fix the problems that arise, which will take proper test equipment to pull off. You are trying to set things in the electrical domain, however the speakers themselves have their own acoustic properties that MUST be taken into account as well. It's like trying to draw a perfect diagonal line on an etch-a-sketch while your controling only one knob, and a blind person controls the other knob. Chances are you aren't going to get a perfectly strait line. -------------
Posted By: Master Asylum
Date Posted: September 30, 2005 at 3:16 AM
Ok, so at this point its gonna be implementation and testing... Which really sucks, because that's a ways away right now.
-------------
1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
|