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what else will i have to upgrade?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=64169
Printed Date: May 28, 2024 at 6:01 PM


Topic: what else will i have to upgrade?

Posted By: ms1045
Subject: what else will i have to upgrade?
Date Posted: October 10, 2005 at 9:51 PM

I am in the process of upgrading my subs. I want to install the Sony XS-L122P5 with an RMS rating of 350 or so. I want to install two Alpine MRD-M605 (400 rms) amps. My question is, what else will i have to upgrade?? Will i have to purchase a high output alternator? Another battery? What do you suggest?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.



Replies:

Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: October 10, 2005 at 10:08 PM

How much are you growing your system in watts?  That will give you an idea if you are getting too much for the alternator in use now.  Will you be running the amps at 2 ohms or 4 ohms?  2 ohms will need more current, provided by the alt.  You will also need to look at all the wiring and fusing in place and make sure you have sufficient gauge for the equipment.  A fresh battery is never a bad idea, too, but if you already have a new one it should be fine.  All it has to do is start the car and take a charge. 

And if you haven't upgraded the wiring in the engine bay now is the time to do that first...battery ground-to-chassis, alternator power-to-battery, chassis-to-engine block - with battery ground-to-chassis foremost on the list.  You can add new larger gauge wiring to what is currently existing (use a gauge as large as your system's main power and ground wires).  Wire-brush contact points in all locations.

So, you do the new wiring, do the engine wiring upgrades, clean and wire brush contact points....and hook up the new sytem.  If then you are having trouble getting enough power output from the alternator, you upgrade that.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 3:08 PM
I will be adding about 1600 watts to the system from what it is now. I will be running it at 4 ohms. Lets just say the system peak will be around 3000 watts. Two subs and amps with 1300 peak each and another amp powering my 6 1/2's and 5 1/4 components. I havent thought about the other upgrading of wire you suggested.

I really would like to buy the subs and the amps. I have a great chance to buy them at a very good price. I just dont know what else i need to do. Im nearly positve my current battery/alternator/wiring isnt ready for that kind of power.





Posted By: sneakycyber
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 4:27 PM
sounds to be a high amp alternator is definatly in your future.

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Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 5:39 PM

There are two definitions of The Big 3:  upgrade the wires as I described above, and the 2nd is that the big 3 are wiring, alternator, and battery.  The second def adds more to the first def.  That means that to upgrade properly, step by step, you do the wiring upgrades first, including the new larger gauge wiring that will power and ground your new equipment.  After that, if needed, comes the battery and alt.

Like I said, you do that, you install the system, you don't worry until it's time to worry.  At that point, if the current powerplant isn't capable (and I agree with cyber that it's very likely you'll need an alternator upgrade), you upgrade the alt.  At that point you can take the car to your local auto shop and have it load tested.  The electrical system will put a demand on the powerplant and that demand can be read with the proper tools.  You'll know at once what you need to get, if in fact you need to get anything.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 5:54 PM
Thank you for the help. I think what im going to do is go ahead and order the subs and amps. I am going to do the wire upgrade and battery. Then, install the subs and amp and see what i got. Then order the proper alt when that is determined.

When do the wire upgrade, what gauge do you recommend?

Also, is there a battery you suggest? I have read about the Yellow top Optima, but i have also seen the Blue top marine deep cycle batterys.

Thank you for the help, you have been more helpful than anyone i have talked to so far.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 6:59 PM

Appreciate the thank you!...Wiring:  most amplifiers will specify a gauge to use for the amp itself;  I would say 8 gauge for each amplifier.  The main power wire needs to be big enough to carry the maximum amount of amperage the combined amplifiers MAY pull all together.  Figure that by looking at the fuse rating of each amp and combining them.  So if you have three amplifiers who each have fuses valued at 60 amps each, you will need a power wire that can carry 180 amps.

Look at your amps' specs to determine, then use Power and Ground Chart to determine the correct gauge to use.  Buy enough so that you can install it comfortably to the install location where you should place a fused distribution block.  The distro block should have at least one input at the size of the main power wire and enough outputs for the wires leading to the amps.  The fuses in the distro should match the rating for those wires.

The power wire, too, needs a fuse close to the battery with an appropriate fuse holder.  Use the chart again to determine that fuse size.  Grounding can be done from each amplifier to chassis, or a neater install is to use an unfused distro block and one main ground wire that matches the gauge of the power wire.

https://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-MS1zsuJlU01/learningcenter/car/ has some good basic info on installing amplifiers.

For battery recommendations from this forum, do a search posted_image for "battery" under "topic".  Me, I use a stock battery replacement when I need to change it.  But I don't sit around playing the system a lot with the car off. 



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 9:07 PM
Ok, ran into a couple more questions.

The subs i am looking at are Sony XS-L122P5 subs. They have a RMS rating around 350. I was planning on putting two alpine mono amps to them. Real simple, each amp runs each sub. The subs have 4 ohm voice coils, and i have decided to run the amps at 2 ohms.

Would this be a problem?

I have looked at different ways to wire them up. Would a larger mono amp be better? I have seen an alpine amp with a 2 ohm rms rating of 700 watts. Now, if those two subs were wired parrallel, would they each get 700? It doesnt seem to me that would be how it worked, but it doesnt seem as simple as just dividing that rms rating by 2.

Which alpine amp would you suggest be best for those Sony subs? Here are the two models:

MRD-M1005

https://iweb.alpine-usa.com/pls/admn/item_info?p_item_name=MRD-M1005&p_category=40&p_subcategory=140&p_main=10&p_more=y

MRD-M605

https://iweb.alpine-usa.com/pls/admn/item_info?p_item_name=MRD-M605&p_category=40&p_subcategory=140&p_main=10&p_more=y


once again, i really appreciate the help.







Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: October 11, 2005 at 10:08 PM

1. (and I'll say this and get it out of the way...no elaboration...)  LOOK at the Sonys - LISTEN to several other subs.

2.  Whatever the output rating of an amp is, is what it is no matter how many drivers are connected to it.  The 700 watts output will not double because you have two subs hooked up.  Half would go to one sub and the other half to the other sub.

3.  DVC 4 ohm sub, coils in parallel for a 2 ohm load, onto a mono amp capable of driving the sub at or under the sub's RMS.

4.  Two SVC 4 ohm subs, wired together to make a 2 ohm load, both driven by one mono amp capable...as above.  You should easily find one mono amp that will power what you want to drive...500 to 700 watts at 2 ohms.  The benefit of using one amp instead of two is:  less power draw from your car, smaller footprint, simpler setup, less electronics, just as much music.

5.  Wiring configurations that will help you put subs together of varying voice coil configurations.  A mono amp is the smartest choice (some of the reasons listed in 4) for subs over a two-channel amp.  IF you are building for sound quality, which I presume you are not as you are looking at Sony, you would use 4 ohms as the load and be content with a lower level of sub bass.  Normally, now with the advent of 1 channel mono amps for subs, 2 ohm loads are the choice and you will be able to achieve a greater level of db without increasing size or cost of amplifiers.

Here's a link to a Big 3 upgrade thread with pics:  https://forum.sounddomain.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 12, 2005 at 5:47 PM
So the sonys suck? Ill take your word on it. I am wanting a hard hitting sub.

You have any suggestions on a brand that might have the mounting depth i am looking for?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: October 12, 2005 at 7:41 PM
Friends don't let friends buy Sony. (or Audiobahn) or trash in general that is normally sold at flea markets. I would also look to a single larger amp to drive both subs instead of the one per sub idea. This is to simplify both the installation and setup of the system. Imagine if your car had an engine for both sets of wheels for example. Keep it simple, use the one amp for both subs approach. You generally spend less on wiring, install time and save on weight and real estate in the trunk.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 12, 2005 at 7:49 PM
This is what ive decided.

Im going to buy 2 12 subs (2 ohm) and wire them series/parrallel. Im looking at approx 300 rms watts with a mono amp to push them both.

Pretty simple thank to all the suggestions and tips. Im going to install that first, and then see if the wiring needs upgraded related to the alternator.

any sugggestions on the subs?




Posted By: ms1045
Date Posted: October 12, 2005 at 7:51 PM
what do you think of the Alpine SWS-1222D ?




Posted By: jbravoj
Date Posted: October 13, 2005 at 4:06 PM

I would get the alpine SWS-1222D .

just my $.02 posted_image






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