Printer Friendly Forum Posts - Eclipse or Infinity

I am debating between a 2 woofer or 1 woofer system. If i go with 2 subs they will be Infinity Perfect 12 DVQs. If I go for 1 sub it will be an Eclipse SW9122. No matter what configuration I go with, the sub/subs will be powered by a Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp for now. The amp puts out 600Wx1 for a 1-4 ohm load. Oh yea and I forgot to mention, I want SQ. Which setup would you go for?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

i would go with 2 infinity's. That way you will have a louder bass at a lower volume. Low volumes have the best SQ and with just one sub you would have to turn it up and risk some distortion to get the same volume.

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84 Mazda Rx7 GS
4 15" Audiobahn High Excursion
1 2500W Orion Amp
Custom Box

Eclipse is much better

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Still configing my setup

I am not really too interested in it being really loud. I just want it to hit every note and sound good. If it's loud that's a plus, but not the most important thing.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Infinity is excelent SQ, i am doing 2 infinity subs this winter. SPL is only fun for so long, but quality is good forever.

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99 Blazer LT. Yellow Top. Big 3. Infinity Kappa Speakers All Around. Jensen CD/DVD flip out. 2 Infinity Kappa Perfect 12DVQs powered by a Alpine PDX600.1 (in one custom box, building a FG box)

I would drop the single 12" titanium and instead go to two 12" aluminums from Eclipse. I say this as I know it to be a top notch performer based on years and years of happy customers with this exact set-up. As a byproduct of using these subs, if tasked, it will play more than loud for most people as well.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

But do 2 12" Eclipse Aluminums sound as good as 2 Infinity Perfect 12DVQs?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Easily and in my opinion, better.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Anyone else second that opinion or think other? It's not that I don't trust you forbidden, I just want to get other opinions. Thanks for the help so far.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Go with the aluminum setup... Not that I don't LOVE the SW9122, but 600 watts WON'T be enough... this I promise you. I have the Eclipse DA7232 running mine, and it is a good match - that's 2kW, RMS, BTW...

Rob is right though. My opinion is that the Eclipse is a far better sounding woofer than the Infinity. The Infinitys are no slouch, but the Eclipse aluminums are just better sounding for my money.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Is 600W enough to power to aluminums? And what are the box specs I should use?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

600 watts is a little on the low side but this means that you can always get a bigger amp in the future. posted_image The box is 1.25 cu.ft sealed net volume for each sub. Ensure that each sub is in it's own enclosure and that the baffle board is a minimum of 1.25" thick or the subs will rip out of the baffle board. DO NOT USE DRYWALL SCREWS to mount the sub.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

for an SQ system no doubt definatly go with the eclipse sub, just the one of them, it is still going to be load but it is going to be clear. and i would say if you are going for the SQ and you are already spending the money on an eclipse sub i would say look at some jl subs like the w6v2 line, they have arguably the best SQ and SPL otherwise the w3 v2's are also great subs for SQ

I disagree with w3s having good SQ...my bro has a pair under the seat in his truck and they play loud, but I'm not happy with the SQ...w6s though I hear kick ass...

W3's can have great sq. Maybe he's overdriving them, or has them in an improper enclosure.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Would a single JL 12W6V2 be a good idea?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

what i was saying is that you could go with a cheaper with the w3's, of caourse they are not goin to be as good of a sub, you can look at the price diffrence and see that. all i was saying is that if you power them right that they can be a good SQ sub or if you power them right the can be good SPL subs too. i kno someone that has 3 12 w3v2's in his car running off a 1000/1 amp and they are loud as hell. but if you really want the best SQ you are going to find go with a w6v2 they are great subs. either that or a imige dinamics sub they are also good for SQ. my personal opinion would be to go with the w6

ham fist wrote:

...but 600 watts WON'T be enough...

That's a funny statement.

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Poormanq45 wrote:

ham fist wrote:

...but 600 watts WON'T be enough...

That's a funny statement.

Here it comes...

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Wait what do you mean hereit comes? And would a single JL 12W6V2 be a good idea? Could I get good, loud SQ out of one of those?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Here are my thoughts on a single driver system vs. a dual driver system. Two drivers working together tend to smooth out the response. Working together they generally move more air, hence more bass. Working together you do not need to work the volume control anywhere near as hard as you do with a single driver system. Two drivers tend to play louder as a side benefit. Take any two driver system and unplug one driver to listen to the results, they speak for themselves (provided that each sub is in it's own enclosure of course).

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

I understand that two subs are better than one and I would do that if I had the money. My question is, would one jl audio 12w6v2 have better SQ than two Infinity Perfect 12DVQs or two Eclipse 12" Aluminums? I know that the 1 jl wouldn't be as loud, but will it sound better and still have a little bump?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

In my opinion, no.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

I would go with infinity because i have a Friend that has daul 4 ohm dvc that are 350 watts rms on a Sx1250.1 in a custom enclosure shared air space. Dont know the Cubic Inches. but any ways they sound awesome and at his work got a db meter to tell how loud the work area was in certain places and tryed it in his truck and hit 110 dbs on motley crue turned at 3/4 the way up

He has a Chevy Avalache

honomichl wrote:

but any ways they sound awesome and at his work got a db meter to tell how loud the work area was in certain places and tryed it in his truck and hit 110 dbs on motley crue turned at 3/4 the way up

Wow! That really rocks.

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Haha.

Yea I wanted to throw in here for kicks:

Using a 13w6 mated to a JL1800D... the thing saw 800watts... 300 over RMS and it really wasn't very satisfactory.. I mean it was real clean and all.. but it really, really needed a friend.

Pairs of woofers just have this *certain* spank....

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Ham Fist? Dave? Poorman is stirring the pot in the opposite direction again........

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There is no such thing as free installation!

this was good for my friend and he thought that was good for him and they were very accurate could care less on what you think . But not that Loud I have two Kicker 12 l7 and a Kx1200.1 class d amp boxed tune at 38 peak or 57 and i hit about 146 av and the best was 150.3

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you can't be ahead of the curb if you aren't LIVIN LOUD

That is Loud

and really knocks

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you can't be ahead of the curb if you aren't LIVIN LOUD

well if you want loud go with loud, get 2 subs, but for more of an SQ system you would wnat the jl i only brouhgt that up becuse you said you wanted a SQ system. of course it isnt going to be as loud as 2 infinities but its is going to be more accurate and SOUND better.

Yea I am only worried about SQ. If it gets a little loud, then that is a plus. SQ is my number 1 priority though.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Which is exactly why I recommended the two Eclipse aluminum drivers in nice small 1.25 cu.ft each sealed boxes. No guess work, no my buddy had these, no I read it on a forum, tried tested more than 30 times true. This is the kind of response that you wanted, no? Most users have their favorite brands to use, most dealers can give you a much broader base to make their decision from.

So based on that, consider believe it or not the Lightning Audio Strike series, the German MB Quart Reference series as well, but none of these suggestions will offer what the Eclipse can and will.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

the 12w6v2 is going to be the best subs that you can get for an SQ system, hands down.

go out and find someone that has one or go to a jl audio dealer and listen to one and then go listen to an eclipse sub. i garentee that the jl is going to sound so much more clear than anything you have ever heard, there is just no comparison.

if you put a eclipse sub and the w6 in your car and powered them correctly then you are going to notice a diffrence in the sound quality, you are going to notice the jl is crisp and clear.

eric holdaway from car audio and electronics said " the best sounding subwoofer i have ever tested for CA&E"

the choice is up to you, it is your call but i think you should listen to a sub before you go buy one, becuse if you have 1 w6 it is going to be clear if you have 2 you are going to get that same clairety just at a higher lever

forbidden's got the idea. id go with the aluminams they are realy good and fit in a small box that is a plus. posted_image

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Want to know some good equipment- JL,Adire Audio,Mcintosh,Brax,Helix,Eclipse,JBL,RE,Dimoand Audio,Zapco, pritty much anything DYhon,Forbidden recommend
On the12volt you give some info and you get in

tcss] wrote:

Ham Fist? Dave? Poorman is stirring the pot in the opposite direction again........

Huh? wha...? Oh, I'm sorry, was I sleeping? LOL

dwarren wrote:

Poormanq45 wrote:

ham fist wrote:

...but 600 watts WON'T be enough...

That's a funny statement.

Here it comes...

Oh, THAT... All I was saying was that I used the 1100 watt analog amp (the 34230) from Eclipse on that same woofer (actually it was the 10" Ti) and it was not even CLOSE to enough power. I bought the DA7232, and WOW... The woofer finally came to life. It was an EXCELLENT match with the 10, but then when I went to the SW9122, it turned out to be an EXCEPTIONAL match. That woofer loves power, and in a small sealed enclosure, you'll need it. That's what's nice about that woofer. It LOVES power, and works well in small sealed enclosures.

I am curious though... why did you think it was a funny statement?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

forbidden... I am not meaning to make it seem like your opinions are useless. I respect your opinions and information. Thanks for all your input. I just want to cover all bases and get as many opinions as possible. I might go with 2 Eclipse Aluminums, but I am not positive yet.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

No-one has useless opinions or questions. Even I have questions sometimes. Even I have differing opinions from others in the industry as well. No offence was taken dude, hope you didn't perceive it that way. posted_image

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Yikes forbidden passed these on to me once as well... here was the rub (disclaimer: I'm really fussy, I'm about to buy 3x10's @88dB/1w/1m and see if I can't nip this Adolescent Bass Addiction once and for all) .... the Aluminums he likes so much have an efficency of like 79dB/1w/1m.... for woofers as silly clean as they are, the output/power they produce really explains a tremendous amount of cleanliness.... they ... uh.. don't make any actual noise.

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

forbidden wrote: no my buddy had these

my freind has a cousin that knows a guy that has a brother and his freind has those subs and he say they rock. LOL

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sedate 79dB isnt that bad. you know that you wont have boomy bass witht them and they probably hit every note they are given but they defitly wont be loud. and as arrow said he wants SQ not SPL so those might just be for him.

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84 Mazda Rx7 GS
4 15" Audiobahn High Excursion
1 2500W Orion Amp
Custom Box

I posted here a while ago and it still hasnt come up. If it comes up in a while i appoligise for the double post.

So arrow here is my advice to you(again):

You would have better SQ if you went with 2 or 3 10" subs. I know that 3 subs wasnt really an option for you but you should consider it. 10's tend to hit every note because they can move quicker and sound crisper. 10's are also cheaper meaning you can get a better quality pair of 10" subs than you can 12" subs for the same price.

just my 2 cents.

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84 Mazda Rx7 GS
4 15" Audiobahn High Excursion
1 2500W Orion Amp
Custom Box

Thanks audiobhan. I never thought of it that way. I might look into that.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

That is patently incorrect. There is no inherent reason why a 10" would have better SQ than a 12" or a 15" or an 18", nor are they "faster." The "speed" (transient response) or a speaker has nothing to do with the size of the cone, but with the inductance of the voice coil. 10" is no better for SQ than any other speaker.

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So a 12" is just as responsive as a 10" if it's the same line of subs?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

arrow12 wrote:

So a 12" is just as responsive as a 10" if it's the same line of subs?

Yes.

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Yup, and i'll back up that claim also. Of course there are variables such as the box size and such, ,but with everything in its optimum (power, box size/type) you would definately have a major task on your hand trying to determine the sound difference between a 10, 12, and 15, , the only noticable difference that really stands out would be the volume increase.

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

Gotcha. I never new that. You learn something new everyday. In my case a couple things.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

ok so maybe i was wrong. sry arrow.

I always heard that 10's had a better frequncy range because they could change directions and move at a faster speed because they had less air to move.

my bad

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84 Mazda Rx7 GS
4 15" Audiobahn High Excursion
1 2500W Orion Amp
Custom Box

It's alright. You aren't the first person to say it to me. Put now I know better.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

audiobhan101 wrote:

I always heard that 10's had a better frequncy range because they could change directions and move at a faster speed because they had less air to move.

A lot of people think that, and on the surface it does seem logical. It's just not true; it's one of the common audio myths.

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The only difference between a 10" and 12" of the same line is the air they move?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

In general, yes, so a 12" woofer will produce a little more SPL at lower frequencies than a 10" all else being equal. A 12" also tends to have a lower fs than a 10", which means it remains efficient at a slightly lower frequency. If the fs of the 12" and the 10" are the same, I'd choose the 10" simply because it would require a smaller enclosure and it will probably be a bit more efficient.

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Well thanks for all your input DYohn. It's greatly appreciated.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

Sorry for the formatting, I have read the previous posts and you would do well to be wary, some are clearly written by people with a limited understanding of physics and electrical engineering.

Tom - BSEE, BS Physics

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Tom

One other note. A single driver is ALWAYS better if it meets the physical performance criteria you are after. Mutiple drivers produce waves that are virtually never coincedent, such that interference occurs (a form of distortion). There are ways to minimize and deal with this both electrically and physically but these are not simple or "quick" fixes.

I use single drivers in almost all my installs except where I cannot achive the level I desire within a given bandwidth. To this end, box design becomes even more complicated. Not having all of the sophisticated equipment to accuratly measure all of the important criteria, I usually leave this to the guys that make premade enclosures that match driver design to required performance.

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Tom

Tom, could you explain the part about the multple driver "distortion" and how it can be "electrically" and "physically" minimized? I'm curious about this.

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There is no such thing as free installation!

Yea that's a really interestin concept.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

i understand and now what he is talking about and will try to elaberate.
the basic cosepte is to regulate the signale going to each sub so that they are esactly the same and so that there is now difference inbetween both. you need a large amout of equipment at you disposele in order to do it correctly and it is not simple. it takes a serten amount of nallege, expiriance, and equipment to do i correctly.
the phisical part is to use a large amount of dampining in the area that the sub is in to blend the already modifyed signale. one other thing is that you have to put damping on the inside of the box which has to be make very carfully to keep the subs giveing of the same amount excursion and presision. but im not sure that this is the right info cuse i came across something about this like a year ago so it is kind of fussy im sure that tom can explane more deeply.hope this helps and if i got something rong fell to correct me posted_image

Aaron

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Want to know some good equipment- JL,Adire Audio,Mcintosh,Brax,Helix,Eclipse,JBL,RE,Dimoand Audio,Zapco, pritty much anything DYhon,Forbidden recommend
On the12volt you give some info and you get in

What? Dude, don't post BS like this and please learn to spell (or get the free Google spell checker!) Your post is so poorly written I can't begin to respond except to say you do not seem to understand what you are talking about (which means you should not post it.)

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technotom can you please explain yourself. How can you minimize what tcss said?

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.

I think he's saying that if you wire the speakers together as opposed to discretely and run them in a common enclosure instead of in discrete enclosures you get ... by the way there technotom, I *love* the masturbatory wordiness of that post .... the actual compression waves eminating from the woofers are more ...*ahem*... coincedent than they would be otherwise.... and he is certainly correct in the assertion that even in said enclosure, minute differences between drivers *will* produce ever so slightly different waves...

That acknowledged I'm pretty stumped by the "No simple or quick fixes" statement... I mean, I've seen pretty nutty balanced digital inputs running from laptops and weirdo bandpass boxes designed to ...ahem... achieve the level of performance desired for the needed bandwidth.... but I'm not sure if ubersolutions to problems that are pretty much theoretical is really a smart idea... again the whole "will I actual hear this in a moving car" test is going be a resounding "No" in most of these cases... certainly in the "Will I hear the difference in these two subs in my trunk driving along the road at 45 miles/hour?" Of course not. Is there a real physical difference in the way they're playing? Sure. On paper.

What's with the "Guys that make premade enclosure" statement anyway? I mean I can do that with WinISD ..

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Sorry for the wordiness. Whenever you have multiple drivers as waves meet they will "interfere" with each other. No, they don't work like the Bose pictures of all waves nicely interlacing - cute marketing gimmick. Sometimes this works to your benefit (waves in phase = greater output at a given frequency), sometimes not (out of phase = standing wave worse case, aka cancellation). Again, these things are dependant upon the environment. Can you "hear" it? Depends on how of which kind of interference.

Perhaps I misused the term "no quick or simple fix". Sedate pointed out that people do and have done all kinds of "things" to achive a desired performance. How well, how accurately, I guess it's subjective. In live sound I use a DBX driverack for "tweaking" anomilies, not from the speakers as much as the speakers in a given room with a given placement. It's a fairly involved gadget to tune, even with the setup wizards!

Hey, you can always build a bass trap in your car (probably not practical - I use them in the studio) but that's a whole 'nuther story!

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Tom

No, no technotom, I really liked the wordiness. Polysyllabic expression is so oft missed from this type of parlance that to see such careful attention to the contruction and spelling of a post was quite pleasing. Few around here seem to care..

Anywho I'm not really sure what the original subject was or if it was answered or what I just wanted to jump in a give another thumbs up to good quality writing. posted_image

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview