capacitors?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=72480
Printed Date: May 01, 2024 at 7:48 PM
Topic: capacitors?
Posted By: lamigra05
Subject: capacitors?
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 1:12 AM
ok.. so i have this mtx 9500 dual 4 ohms thingy. and im either going to get a mtx thunder 7801 amp or the 81001 amp. do u think that i need a capacitor for it? if so how strong and wat brand? im sorry if im dumb with this stuff. im just a freakin newbe and hope to get better at this stuff one day.
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wat it do?
Replies:
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 1:31 AM
Don't worry about the newby thing. Everyone has to start out somewhere. By the way that huge MTX 9500 thingy is called a subwoofer. :-) hehe. Anyway, I'm not too big a fan of capacitors. I was thinking about putting one in my vehicle with this big project that I'm working on now, but I decided not to. Just make sure you got a real nice battery and you should be fine. As long as weird things don't start happening... like your headlights dim when the bass hits, or the screen on your headunit starts dimming in and out. Those would be bad signs! Your amp is trying to get the power it needs and its not getting it! In which case you know you need to get some more power. Optima batteries are real nice. I swear by their power. You need more juice, turn to Optima and problem solved. (usually) Don't worry about the 'usually' because thats only if your doing something outrageous with your vehicle like putting 8 tv screens and 3 computers and navigation system with subs and god knows what else!! Since you didn't mention anything that extreme I'd say the Optima should do it for you. IF the battery you already have doesn't get the job done!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 1:34 AM
The above information is not COMPLETELY wrong, but not all right either. Forget the cap, and invest in an HO alternator. Caps do NOTHING (or close to nothing) in a car stereo system UNTIL you have proper power... (even then, their value is questionable) all the power in a car comes from the alternator. Always. Period. Not from a capacitor or the battery or even eleven batteries! You must address the alternator first.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 2:41 AM
Alternators are a good way to get more 'juice'. Lots of people go the route that haemphyst is talking about. There is a draw back though. For one alternators (especially high powered alternators) can get a little pricey. Secondly, alternators are a lot harder to install (especially on certain vehicles) as batteries are not too difficult. Also, the alternator is not the first thing to address. I've seen very high powered stereos that had the stock alternator in them simply because upgrading is not neccesary in certain situations. Take for instance the amp that lamigra05 is talking about. Now if he were to hook up an Optima yellow top battery just to the amp and to nothing else, ( In other words the battery wouldn't even be in the motor compartment, but inside the vehicle) not only would that battery be overkill for power, but he could sit there and listen to that sub all day without even turning on the engine!! Don't get me wrong, there are situations where upgrading the alternator is needed. Just remember that power doesn't always come from the alternator.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 8:33 AM
willdkartunes wrote:
Just remember that power doesn't always come from the alternator.
I was trying to help with correct information. This information here is completely wrong.
While it is true that you might be able to sit and listen to your system for a while without having the car running, your battery will eventually (and in a realtively short time as well) go dead, to the point of not being able to start you car. Why? Because the ALTERNATOR is not making any power. "Power doesn't always come from the alternator?" That's the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. In a modern 12 volt system the battery has always been, and will never be for anything other than STARTING the car. It is true that it will provide little spikes of current, for when the ALTERNATOR can't keep up, but this only in places where there is more accessory (read: amplifier(s)) than the alternator can keep powered by itself. It was NEVER MEANT to be a power SOURCE in any car. Cars didn't USED to have radios, and the battery is simply a throw-back to the days of automatic starters - when people didn't have to crank their cars by hand anymore - because somebody dropped a starter motor and generator (AKA alternator) under their hoods...
If someone insists on using more accessory than the alternator can keep powered ON A CONTINUOUS BASIS, the battery will eventually go dead, place unneccessary strain on the alternaor, and eventually take the alternator with it. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 4:27 PM
I tryed to make myself as clear as possible, but maybe you didn't read what I wrote... I specifically said NOT hooked up to the alternator. In other words the battery that I'm talking about is in the vehicle and not going to start the car at all! The yellow top battery has the ability to recharge itself rather fast as well as have PLENTY of power in that battery to literally listen all day without having an alternator to sit there and charge it up. Apparently you don't know this, but the Optima yellow top is a deep cycle battery that recharges itself in a rather quick manner! (roughly one hour from being completely dead) So you can forget about running out of power anytime soon! Maybe you should run a little experiment with one and see what I'm talking about. You also should do a little research first before saying that someones information is "completely wrong"!
Posted By: kirktcashalini
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 5:33 PM
eeek. Hate to jump in on this fight... but wildkartunes, exactly how do you think these yellow tops charge might I ask. Dont get me wrong, I love them too. But they do not get mystery power from outer space. The alternator charges them... PERIOD. Every time the car is running the alternator is MAKING power. Batterys need alternators. (not counting separate ones, which again dont get mystery charge from aliens, they need to get charged as well somehow).
Look, whoever originally asked this question. don't get a capacitor, or a battery, if the system runs fine, then your good. Just dont sit with your car not running for a half hour with the subs going and expect it to start. If your lights dim and head unit does too, Then get a high output alternator. If you want, get a battery? if it works dont fix it, right? and you dont need to deal with dual batterys unless you are doing something way more serious than it sounds.
Batterys CRANK and STORE basically....
Alternators SUPPLY power to them
Capacitors make nice Table Weights 
If you are bored wildkartunes, go to www.howstuffworks.com and type battery, and alternator separately. I think you will be quite amazed with what you find out.  ------------- 99 Blazer LT. Yellow Top. Big 3. Infinity Kappa Speakers All Around. Jensen CD/DVD flip out. 2 Infinity Kappa Perfect 12DVQs powered by a Alpine PDX600.1 (in one custom box, building a FG box)
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 6:09 PM
So, what you are saying is that an Optima yellow top will forever recharge itself... Again, a rediculous concept. NO battery will EVER recharge itself to 100 percent, not even your beloved Optima... If you do not recharge the battery with an outside source (and in a car, let's use, let's say, oh, AN ALTERNATOR, just for grins), it will DIE. Again, another "end-of-story". Again, I will say that ALWAYS, the power in a car ultimately comes from the alternator. (OK, ultimately it comes from the gasoline in the tank...) No matter WHAT kind of battery you have in your car, if you DONT HAVE AN ALTERNATOR, you will not go very far, and you'll go an even shorter distance if you have accessories like amplifiers installed. There is no magic battery that will forever provide power to you, just because you let it "self recharge in under an hour".
Yup, he's right, if you run it till it dies, then turn it off, and let it self recharge, yes, you will be able to go a little farther in your travels, or listen to your stereo a little longer, but NEVER as long as you can from your freshly charged yellow-top... and if you try it again, it'll be a shorter time still...
You need the alternator, no matter what wildkartunes tries to tell you. I am not the only guy here that'll tell you this, either.
wildkartunes, you need to understand that you are wrong in your assumptions. You CANNOT expect any battery to recover for ever, (and I really don't care about your "experiments", they are obviously flawed) as you are suggesting a yellow top will do. If it is not connected to a charging source, again (and I continue to stress this, maybe it'll get through...) the alternator, it will die. The POWER IN EVERY CAR, NO MATTER THE BATTERY TYPE COMES FROM THE ALTERNATOR. Whether you are using the battery to start the car or not, isolated or not, 12 batteries or not, you MUST USE AN ALTERNATOR! It HAS to be there. Does this make sense to you?
BTW, here is your answer to you "self-recharging" phenomenon... Yes they do regenerate, but not forever...
I might also add, that a yellow top battery, IF THE ALTERNATOR IS UP TO THE TASK, is not the desired battery for car stereo - use a red top. Here's why. Red tops are better for car stereo, and I have always said so, and I will continue to say so. A yellow top will allow the battery ot have a longer OVERALL LIFE, due to deeper discharge cycles, again, IF THE ALTERNATOR IS NOT UP TO THE TASK. Red tops are better for high current demands, just like your car stero amplifiers are going to place on it... ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: jlord16
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 6:56 PM
lamigra05, stick the godam amp in ur car and hook it up and test it in ur garage, if the headlight dim or anything like that then u have a problem. You may want to consider upgrading the big 3, if your only running that amp your stock amp and battery may suffice. Juat remember while the car is running the battery is a load on the alternator as it has to charge it. if you will be running the system while the engine is going mainly then a HO alternator is a better choice
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Clarion DB36MP
Infinity Kappa Perfect 10"
Respone 800w Mono
ALPINE MRP-F250
*Custom fabrications*
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 9:45 PM
You'll get schooled by haemphyst...maybe not immediately, but it will come...and I like your response, kirk.
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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: geepherder
Date Posted: February 09, 2006 at 11:02 PM
------------- My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.
Posted By: jlman
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 12:16 AM
i would like to get one of those awesome batteries that willdkartunes is talking about that can recharge itself without a power source. I would like to see have far willdkartunes can drive with his optima and no alt. and when his dump ass is stranded he might learn what produces the power in his vehicle
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just wait till the bass drops
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 12:39 AM
jlman, First off there is no need at all to get nasty with you reply. If you are going to start trash talking atleast learn how to spell first! You must not be able to read either because if you did then you would know that I'm talking about an ISOLATED battery and NOT the battery that you start your vehicle with!!! I also never in any of my posts claimed that this battery would last for all of eternity! If anybody thinks that a battery can last forever then they are just plain stupid. I thought everybody knew that and figured that didn't need to be stated, but I guess not. So now that I cleared up the fact that the alternator is NOT hooked up to the battery in the situation that I'm talking about, and that I'm talking about an ISOLATED battery we can go full circle to where this battery is getting its power from. First off I'm in the process of finding exact numbers as to how long this battery will last on, lets say, a 1200watt amp... I'm sure it lasts more than 30 minutes of listening time! This ISOLATED battery will obviously not stay charged forever as I have already stated above so guess what? That means your going to have to charge it when it goes dead. This is also a common sense idea, but I figured I state that also for those who don't have that. Does that answer your questions? If not, feel free to explain how an alternator can charge a battery that is never connected to it!
Posted By: lamigra05
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 1:04 AM
come on guys.. i just wanted to kno if i needed a capacitor or not for my car... hahaha.. this is getting out of hand.
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wat it do?
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 1:15 AM
Your right!! it has gotten way out of hand! It is kinda funny though I'd say the answer to the capacitor is a no.
Posted By: scotty dogg
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 1:23 AM
heres my 2 cents.........willdkarutunes was just usuing a hypothetical situatution to prove a point that a optima battery will have more juice than a regular battery IF if it was not hooked to a charging system at all......well thats what i got from his post.
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'98 GMC suburban, alpine CDA 9847, kicker KS 60, KS 65, two kicker L5's, JBL GTO 1200.1II
Posted By: jlord16
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 5:30 AM
i agree with scotty dogg on this one, ditch the cap, try running the electrical system as is
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Clarion DB36MP
Infinity Kappa Perfect 10"
Respone 800w Mono
ALPINE MRP-F250
*Custom fabrications*
Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 9:14 AM
Hook up the system, if the lights dim then look into a high output alternator, its definately a great investment since we all know in car audio you can never be happy with the power you have, you will definately upgrade to a larger system in the future, everyone has suffered this bug , and when that opportunity comes to upgrade you wont have to worry about the charging system since you took care of it when it was needed. Believe me, the people on this board with over 1000 posts have been newbs also, but we have learned our lessons which is why when we/they make a point were not going to stand down since were like your old man who knows all and thats it, no excuses lol. ------------- 2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.
Posted By: speedwayaudio1
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 9:52 AM
www.motorcityreman.com willdkartunes wrote:
jlman, First off there is no need at all to get nasty with you reply. If you are going to start trash talking atleast learn how to spell first! You must not be able to read either because if you did then you would know that I'm talking about an ISOLATED battery and NOT the battery that you start your vehicle with!!! I also never in any of my posts claimed that this battery would last for all of eternity! If anybody thinks that a battery can last forever then they are just plain stupid. I thought everybody knew that and figured that didn't need to be stated, but I guess not. So now that I cleared up the fact that the alternator is NOT hooked up to the battery in the situation that I'm talking about, and that I'm talking about an ISOLATED battery we can go full circle to where this battery is getting its power from. First off I'm in the process of finding exact numbers as to how long this battery will last on, lets say, a 1200watt amp... I'm sure it lasts more than 30 minutes of listening time! This ISOLATED battery will obviously not stay charged forever as I have already stated above so guess what? That means your going to have to charge it when it goes dead. This is also a common sense idea, but I figured I state that also for those who don't have that. Does that answer your questions? If not, feel free to explain how an alternator can charge a battery that is never connected to it!
why would you want a batt with out a charging system? why would someone want to hook up a batt charger every day. seems like your making this harder than it is. Batt turns the starter that's it. You can unhook your batt and the car still runs. Why? the alt is powering the ign system, lights, a/c, power seats, and the audio system. as far as a cap goes. if you have a good ho alt and you what to run a cap go ahead it will not hurt anything. they look cool too. you have to have the ho alt to properly charge it. other wise it" just a drag on your stock alt. As far as the cost of a ho alt goes you can shop for a better price. $250 to $350 depending on where you go and the brand name. It is worth every penny.  ------------- Big Dave
Posted By: lamigra05
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 1:28 PM
well i apreciate all the help. um does a car already have an alternator? n were do u put it in the car? well thanks again.
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wat it do?
Posted By: kirktcashalini
Date Posted: February 10, 2006 at 1:44 PM
Lol. I am sorry this thread makes me laugh every time I see anyone new posted.
And Lamigra, I do NOT mean to make any fun of you in any which way. You are new, and that is understandable. I will help you as much as i can. Yes your car has an alternator. It is attatched to the engine, and has a belt turning it when the motor is running. That thing (alternator) makes power and charges teh battery. That is what prevents your car from needing to be jump started every time you start it. Build or have someone build up your system. If it works good, great. If it dims and everything, Go to a good shop and tell them you need a High output alternator. Good luck.
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99 Blazer LT. Yellow Top. Big 3. Infinity Kappa Speakers All Around. Jensen CD/DVD flip out. 2 Infinity Kappa Perfect 12DVQs powered by a Alpine PDX600.1 (in one custom box, building a FG box)
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