Overpowering a subwoofer?

I have a pair of 12" subs which run at 1000watts max  (500watts rms) and the amp is 2000watts max (350 watts rms x 2 and 600 watts rms bridged.)

From what I understand its better to over power the subs (600w bridged) than underpower them (350w)

Bridging the two amps powers them at 600w rms when their max is 500w each. Will this be a problem, am I going to fry them or do I not run the bass boost at full? Im new at audio installation, I have always done my work on engine and body mods so any help would be much appreciated.

Sorry for the lack of information:

The subs are dual voice coil 4 ohm, and according to the diagrams posted on this site the coils are wired in series and the subs wired in parallel for a 4ohm load. The amp is 2ohm stable.

I didnt have the dough (or space) to buy two separate amps but relied on information saying I could run both subs off the same amp bridged and it would be fine.

here are the specs for the amp: (edited by moderator)

You will not overpower the subs.  You say your speakers can handle 500 watts, and the amplifier (if the specs are accurate) produces 600 watts bridged.  When you connect two subwoofers to the amp (assuming they are the same) they will share the available power equally so each will be able to use up to 300 watts (600 divided by two.)  Set your gain properly and you will be fine.

Please list makes and model numbers of your gear.  Thanks.

mukrainetz wrote:

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From what I understand its better to over power the subs...than underpower them...

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That is false.  Here's a list of prior forum threads that deal with the subject of a speaker's thermal power handling:  https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/search.asp?KW=thermal+rating&SM=3&SI=PT&FM=2&OB=1&Submit=Start+Search

mukrainetz wrote:

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From what I understand its better to over power the subs...than underpower them...

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The reasons you have heard this before is because many times what happens is that people will turn up a amplifier rated below a speakers power handling capability because they think that they have nothing to worry about.  The amplifier will go into clipping in these cases which actually causes the amplifier to deliver a quantity of power much higher than it would normally.  This is where stevdart's references come into play.  If you read through those you will see how a speaker fails and how power ratings need to be converted in certain situations.  Much of it involves understanding how the shape of waves affects power delivery...blah blah blah, yeah.

The other half of the statement, "overpowering is better" is made because many times people that bought the appropriately sized (or larger) amplifiers made sure to set their gains right so the amp would not go into clipping.  In truth either situation can be just as damaging: An amplifier thats rated power is more than the speakers rated capabilities or an amplifier rated under the speaker but driven into clipping.  Both of these put more power through the voice coil than it can handle and it will eventually fail.

Your best bet is to buy an amplifier rated at or under the speakers rated capabiliities and set the gains correctly.  If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

stevdart wrote:

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That is false.  Here's a list of prior forum threads that deal with the subject of a speaker's thermal power handling:  https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/search.asp?KW=thermal+rating&SM=3&SI=PT&FM=2&OB=1&Submit=Start+Search

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mukrainetz, I figured since you used the phrase "From what I understand..." that you might have included that bit of info in order to get some feedback..although I know it's not the subject of this thread, nor should it overtake your subject matter.

The list of threads is likely to deal with the subject since I used the key phrase "thermal rating" in the 'message body' search.  Just to give you some insights on how that subject has been discussed on this forum.  I didn't read through those but just glanced through the titles, but I'm sure you will find some truths that come out.  There are some various ways that you CAN look at it, but assigning an assumed percentage of success according to how you think the consumer will set up the system, as gbear was saying, is not a way to waste very much of your time on.  There are so many wayyy overrated amps (and subs) on the market now, you don't know what those ratings tell you.  There is only one truth, and it is opposite of what you assumed was true in your opening remark.  You can make your own conclusion if you've got facts to work with.

So the next time you hear someone tell you that, you can say, "Yeah...you hear a lot of things, doncha?"

With that out of the way, post back with those model numbers of your gear that DYohn asked about so the forum can get a better look at the big picture.

I have neglected to include the brand and model numbers to get a general idea first off of how this equipment 'should' handle the power. I have been bashed on my choice of equipment on other sites but since reading the posts on this forum in particular have come to the conclusion this site and its members are VERY much more informed than the others.

I purchased two Volfenhag ZX-4712 DVC subs and one Volfenhag ZX-8400 2 channel bridgable amp. I also recently purchased a new headunit, a Sony  CDX-F605X. I got all these pieces at a third or less of retail.

I hope you don't think it's bashing your choices to tell you this, but Volfenhag is not a good brand and they grossly overrate their gear.  It is important that you know this so you do not expect too much from it and can keep it operating for a while, as pushing it too hard is a sure way to create early failure, and then your good deal won't seem so good! 

With that gear DEFINATELY do not push the amp too hard.  Use no less than a 4-ohm load.  It should probably put out a clean 200 or 300 watts when bridged (the ratings are crap on that amp.)  Those speakers will handle no more than that, so you are safe operating this way.  Be EXTRA careful setting the gain (be sure you do it RIGHT using test tones and since the ratings are crap on this amp set it by ear, not using a voltmeter) and then do not try to tweak the gain up when you realize this setup does not pound the way the specs make you think it should.  Set it up correctly and it should provide some thump for you.  Don't expect it to be too musical...

That opinion is great, what I meant by 'bashing' was people saying im a complete idiot for picking this stuff up etc etc. Like I said, im new to audio and the sony subs were cheaper (though a well established brand) and I figured I would give them a chance, how else do companies expand and get better if nobody buys their stuff? I guess anyway, thats my opinion.

I dont and didnt expect to blow the back window out of my car just wanted some bass and looks, I have spent a lot of time designing a box and amp rack in CAD to fit my car - I cant believe the wealth of information on this site as well as the helpfull info from the members. Thanks to everyone.

One other quick question about the gain, can someone provide a link or info about the gain and setting it up properly.

I should be finished the box and have it primed and ready for vinyl or other finish in the next couple of weeks, is there a place on here to post photos for comments?

Cool.  The search function at the top of the forum is your friend.

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/search.asp?KW=gain&SM=1&SI=TC&FM=2&OB=1

Nxt g] wrote:

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ey i would just like to add my two cents i kno this is ma first post and all and dont bash me for beeing a "noob" cuz ive been installin systems since i was 4 (no lie i had a little toy peg perego motorized plastic jeep which i hooked up a system to) but thats a whole different story but the reason you have heard it is better to over power then underpower is u got it backwards its better to overpower subs and speakers so u get clearer sound and underpower amps and hu just thought i should add that

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You should go back and read the information in the link that stevdrat posted on the first page, your information is flawed but explained in perfect detail in that post. Ask questions after you read the post if something seems wrong or confusing.

I have got my box situated in my car but have to make a few minor adjustments (made my measurements a little too exact and need to make a little trimming). Fitting the two twelves in a box with an amp rack down the middle in the back of my hatch has proved to be a very tight fit. I only have 21 inches of depth to work with which tapers at the top to 14 inches. Anyway, the car is wired except the new deck - I cant find a kit for it. With some modifications to things I should have things up and running in a week or two and want to post pics and let everyone here know how it worked out sound wise.  I may post some pics here anyway in the next day or two.

One other question;   can I measure the amperage draw when things are hooked up and running? is that a simple thing to do between the power and ground with a meter? Also, can I test accross the speaker terminals on the amp for voltage ?

I suggest you post your pics in the Rides & Systems Gallery forum (although I'm not sure about rookie status rules) and bring this thread back up to provide a link to it.

Amperage draw is not simple and requires an expensive meter that will handle the task.  Voltage measurement is another story, and along with Ohm's Law can provide you with approximate power output and amperage data.  Use a digital meter, test tones recorded at 0 db, with driver disconnected.  Gains must be set already.  This is also sometimes used in helping to establish proper gain level, but I like hearing the sound of clipping instead.  If you have the test tones for the gain setting, which you should, you will already be set to measure voltage.

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