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Interpreting WinISD results

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=75404
Printed Date: April 23, 2024 at 8:22 PM


Topic: Interpreting WinISD results

Posted By: gsexer
Subject: Interpreting WinISD results
Date Posted: March 30, 2006 at 7:56 PM

Besides looking for a spike on the transfer function magnitude page, How would you interpret these results?

Qms 10.520,  Qts .460, Fs 22.01, Vas 3.310, DVC

I used a sealed enclosure with 2ft^3 of space.  How does that look?

I am so interested in all the technical aspects, but I still dont know what half of the stuff is that I am looking at!!




Replies:

Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: March 30, 2006 at 7:58 PM
I used the .707 alignment.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: March 30, 2006 at 8:48 PM
Those aren't results of the program, they're parameters (a partial list) of the sub.  Do you have a list of T/S parameters for your sub?  Are you using the WinISD guide stickied above for help getting started?

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: coppellstereo
Date Posted: March 30, 2006 at 9:03 PM
The guide mentioned and stickied in this forum is really helpful! There is a link to a site that has all the definitions for you.

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Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 6:24 AM
Forgot to mention that those were the parametersof the speaker that I already ran.  I posteded the T/S so you guys could run it and look at the graph and give an opinion.  I did read the guide thread.  In the guide thread it said to use the minimum amount of info to get the program to work, thats why I did not post all of the T/S numbers.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 10:00 AM

Post all parameters you have and the units of measurement, or provide a link to them.  And the woofer is DVC what? 

How was this woofer measured, with the coils in series?  These things are important.

Let it be up to the user of a program to sort through what he wishes to input first.  I wouldn't be able to do a thing with the parameters etc you mentioned.  You'll get better and quicker help by providing more info.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 10:31 AM

Man, I am sucking just a bit these days.   Here is the link, I was running the numbers for the 12dVQ with the mid insert in.

https://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/Perfect%20VQ%20OM%20FINAL%20(Revised%2012-2-02).pdf

I was wiring the sub on the program in parallel, sealed enclosure, .707 alignment, 2ft^3 of space in the enclosure.  Standard units of measure.





Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 11:58 AM
Link dosen't work.

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.




Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 2:56 PM

....

try this one, it is the product page, and the link is on the page.

https://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+PERFECT12DVQ'&Ser=KPE&Cat=SUB





Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 3:34 PM

Here's a driver that exemplifies what DYohn was talking about in the article Loudspeaker Sensitivity vs Efficiency.  I used the calculator that I linked to in that article and found that although this 12DVQ is rated at a 92 db sensitivity according to the manual....the actual efficiency is much lower, and more in line with other subs.  Low insert:  87 db.  Mid insert:  85 db.  No insert:  83.75 db. 

Not quite 92 db, huh?  posted_image

gsezer, that manual gives a ton of good information on enclosure sizes and gives you ways to use the driver for multiple purposes.  If you look at the recommended enclosure sizes, you'll see that by the time you get as big as 1.25 cu ft (sealed), that no insert is used for best Q with the F3 point at 35 Hz.  With an EBP of 34, used with no insert, there is no question that this sub gets a sealed box.  I would build it just like that since you apparently have plenty of space for it, and not even look for reasons to work it up in a modeling program.

Use WinISD to work up the majority of subs on the market who give you less good information.  Or practice using it with the enclosure sizes given for the different Q inserts and get to know the program better that way.  You'll see that you have to change Qes (and therefore, Qts, so leave Qts blank for autocalculation) for each insert and without the insert.  You see they show the differences in Qes as .64, .46 and .31.  Bring up your database editor and change it in that for each insert Q, then save, then bring up "new project" so that it includes your data change.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: March 31, 2006 at 6:22 PM

I take it that going to a 2ft^3 box to get rid of a 2dB ripple is really not worth it.  Would you be satisfied with a 2dB ripple in your box/sub if you were not going for SPL?

After looking at it, you are right about the sensitivity.  Why would they bother to post those numbers if they know we can use a calculator to find out what it really is?  Hell, just using the calculator alone, I need to run some numbers to see what the sensitivity really is on other subs.  Maybe I need to just get a Brahma, you guys speak very highly of it in other threads!posted_image

BTW Thank you for the assistance, and your patience.  it is greatly appreciated.





Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 01, 2006 at 12:38 AM

Well dude, I think you got this thing nailed.  After your initial post in which I thought you might be a little bit on the clueless side (sorry, my bad!), you started to intrigue me with what you began to show.  So I worked this thing up to satisfy my own curiosity, and it looks like a 2 ft^3 box with the mid insert is the way to go.  Good work!

Here's a shot of the responses:  the lavender is 1.25 with no insert;  the white is 2.0 with mid insert;  the aqua is 1.25 with mid insert.  What you came up with looks the best.

perfect12dvq.jpg



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: gsexer
Date Posted: April 01, 2006 at 6:50 AM
Thanks for the compliment.  Trust me, I was clueless till like last week when I first started visiting this site!  I still have a lot of reading to do.  Last week, I just figured I could get a RF amp and sub, throw it in a "recommended" size box, and it would work.  Thanks again for the help.  I won't be able to start the install till the end of the year, but of course there will be pics for all to see!  Now I have to figure out how to bring the sound stage up with the front speakers.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 01, 2006 at 8:17 AM
End of the year!  You've got plenty of time to practice until then, that's for sure.  You could work up some of this forum's posted box size questions for people and help out that way.  Good learning experience for you and contributes to the information flow in the forum.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.





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