US Amps I/S 4085 VS Eclipse EA4000

Greetings all!  I have had the honor of poring over the many informative posts (especially the stickies) for the last few days and increased my understanding ten fold.  I have especially appreciated reading the posts by haemphyst, DYohn, Steven Kephart, the12volt, and forbidden.

I finally feel like I have a pretty good idea what kind of an amp I want/need to improve my system.  Here is my current setup:

I think I have narrowed down the amp choices to the US Amps I/S 4085:

IS 4085 Retail is: $299.00.
Power: 85wx4 @ 4 135wx4 @ 2 270wx2 @ 4
S/N Ratio: 101dB
THD: >.01%
Channel Separation: 45dB
Damping Factor (@14.4v): 95
Crossover: HP 12hz-200khz LP 40hz-200khz
Protection: Reverse Polarity, Thermal, Short Circuit
Fuse Rating: 30Ax2
Size (LxWxH): 14.5 x 9.5 x 2.5

Or the Eclipse EA4000: with a 2x30 amp fuse

What do you guys think?  How would you compare the two amps?  Are they right for my system?  Any other recommended options?  I am a little worried about the current I will be drawing from my stock alternator.  But according to the different formulas:  basslink 200 watt x 1.25 (class D) / 14.4V = 17.36  +++  75x4 = 300 watt x 1.5 (class AB) / 14.4V = 31.25     ===  48.61.  Might the remaining 21.39 amperes be enough to run the car's headlights (or air conditioning) and the many electronic systems?

I would greatly appreciate any diagnosis/analysis.  As far as wiring is concerned, I was planning on running 4 gauge from the battery post  (with an 80 amp fuse within 18" of battery) to a fused distribution block in the trunk.  From here the current will be split between the basslink and whichever 4 channel amp is decided upon.  They will both be grounded to the same bolt in the trunk.

Thanks in advance for your analysis!  I look forward to reading/participating in the responses.

-Matt

The Eclipse is $225 shipped and the US amps is $145 shipped.

I should probably mention that I am solely interested in SQ.

Cost is a factor, but definitely not the only factor.  I would prefer a well made amp that will last for years and supply my speakers with the power and precision needed to sound their best.  I am hoping for a big SQ difference by tripling the rms watts going into my speakers.  All the speakers are equipped with passive crossovers.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the advice forbidden and luckydevil!  I checked out the XA4000 and it looks great, the only problem I see is that I would be concerned about overloading my speakers with a 125 watt x4 channel into speakers 2-90 and 2-110.  Plus, even with the increased efficiency of the XA 500 watt x 1.25/ 14.4V = 43.4 amperes whereas the EA would be 300 watt x 1.5 (class AB) / 14.4V = 31.25.  So the EA would still be drawing less current.  Or am I performing the calculation wrong?  Should it be 300 watts x 2 / 14.4 V = 41.7 amperes?  Either way, does anyone know of a good class D 4 channel amp that produces a little less power? (such as in the 75-90 watt rms range)  Or would I be able to adjust the output power of the xa4000?

The I/S 4085 was an outsourced to Asia production model.  I am assuming the Eclipses are made in Asia too as they are made by Fujitsu ten.  I value your opinion and will definitely take it into consideration.  Out of curiousity, what kind of standard are the low end US Amps made to?  And what would be the main differences between the amps mentioned?

Thanks again!

mattmc wrote:

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The I/S 4085 was an outsourced to Asia production model. I am assuming the Eclipses are made in Asia too as they are made by Fujitsu ten. I value your opinion and will definitely take it into consideration. Out of curiousity, what kind of standard are the low end US Amps made to? And what would be the main differences between the amps mentioned?

Thanks again!

---

Thanks for the advice!  I definitely know what you mean by our vibing, light, flimsy doors.  The door speaker ports are covered in dynamat extreme (3 square feet each) along with a patch directly behind the speaker cone on the inner part of the outer door wall.  Would you recommend anything else that could drastically improve the door situation?

I would definitely be willing to buy the XA4000, the articles even further increase it's desireability.  Do you think my speakers (with their 90 max wrms fronts, 110 rears) will be able to handle the 125 wrms x 4 amplifier?  Will that significantly shorten the life of the speakers?  Would there be a chance they'd blow?  Is there any method of lowering the output of the amp to better fall in line with the speaker limitations?  Will this kind of power render the basslink irrelevant?  I know it is not amazing, but do you think it would do a good job at merely filling in the low frequencies?

Regarding the HO alt, is that something I could possibly install myself?  If not, what kind of installation rates should I expect?  Where is the civic's alternator located?  Is the big 3 upgrade difficult to perform on our car?  If you have time, I would greatly appreciate a brief overview of the 2001 civic big 3 wiring locations to eliminate some of the guess work.  How would just installing this HO alt compare to the standard alt + cap?

Would you recommend the dynamat trunk kit to seal up the trunk for the basslink?  Would that make a sizeable difference?

Thanks for the offer of install tips and suggestions, I would love to benefit from your experience.

mattmc wrote:

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Thanks for the advice! I definitely know what you mean by our vibing, light, flimsy doors. The door speaker ports are covered in dynamat extreme (3 square feet each) along with a patch directly behind the speaker cone on the inner part of the outer door wall. Would you recommend anything else that could drastically improve the door situation?

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mattmc wrote:

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I would definitely be willing to buy the XA4000, the articles even further increase it's desireability. Do you think my speakers (with their 90 max wrms fronts, 110 rears) will be able to handle the 125 wrms x 4 amplifier? Will that significantly shorten the life of the speakers? Would there be a chance they'd blow? Is there any method of lowering the output of the amp to better fall in line with the speaker limitations? Will this kind of power render the basslink irrelevant? I know it is not amazing, but do you think it would do a good job at merely filling in the low frequencies?

---

mattmc wrote:

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Regarding the HO alt, is that something I could possibly install myself? If not, what kind of installation rates should I expect? Where is the civic's alternator located? Is the big 3 upgrade difficult to perform on our car? If you have time, I would greatly appreciate a brief overview of the 2001 civic big 3 wiring locations to eliminate some of the guess work. How would just installing this HO alt compare to the standard alt + cap?

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mattmc wrote:

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Would you recommend the dynamat trunk kit to seal up the trunk for the basslink? Would that make a sizeable difference?

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mattmc wrote:

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Thanks for the offer of install tips and suggestions, I would love to benefit from your experience.

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Thanks for more solid advice haemphyst!  Very appreciated!  I will be loading up on another box of dynamat extreme.  Also, where would I find some DAP weather foam?  As far as how my speakers are currently mounted in my doors, I had to cut the space larger to handle the large woofer cone, along with adding a plastic spacer to allow the window to close all the way.  The screws are just put straight into the sheetmetal.  Is there a better method of securing the speakers than just screwing into sheet metal?  How have you mounted your door speakers?

Great, so the 170 amp HO alt, the xa4000, and heavy gauge wire.  Will the Infinity Basslink be able to keep up with that setup?  I only want a sub to fill out the frequencies and give music fullness.

I definitely will not get a cap.  As far as the "stinger battery terminals" are concerned, is that an upgrade to your car battery?  Or a fused distribution block?  I guess I must plead ignorance regarding the following paragraph:

"I used Stinger battery terminals, because they had the number of connectors I wanted. 2 nice capscrews on top, for the #4 power cables to the trunk, and two #8 holes with setscrews, one for the accessory fuse block lead, and one for the starter motor. The dual terminal Red-Top Optima provides a side terminal for the alternator input. It can be done! Just gotta do some research to locate the devices you want, exactly."

If you could break it down more it would be helpful.  I'll be out of town until Sunday night, but look forward to reading your response.  Have a great weekend!

Thanks for all of your great advice, it was thoroughly informative and enjoyable.

haemphyst wrote:

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First off, don't buy another box of Dynamat, I have one I need to get rid of, and I'll make you a smoking deal on it! I bought three, and two of them are presently installed in my car... Can't seem to find a buyer for the other one... I can't take it in the shorts, but I'll do the best I can for you, price-wise!

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Sounds great!  Thanks for the opportunity.  I'll PM you for details.

haemphyst wrote:

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Here's the link to the very product I used. I bought it by the case at Lowe's (maybe Home Peopt... don't remember exactly). I am thinking any large home improvement store should have it. I have not found anything else I like quite as much, this stuff sticks REALLY well, and damps awesome. Easy to install with the tube, clean up is quick as well... Just water.

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I'll definitely pick up a case of that, thanks for the link.

haemphyst wrote:

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As of now, I am trying to NOT cut, if I don't have to. Sadly, I might have to, finally, as I want to install a pair of Adire Extremis 6.8's into the door right now, and having VERY little luck. Spacers will be mandatory, as will cutting out the inside of the door panel. I'll have to remove some of the ribs that are on the backside of the panel for it to fit. I am still afraid I might even hit the window with these drivers... SOOO deep...

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Those are some very nice speakers.  They will definitely bring the lower frequencies up front.  What amp will you be powering them with?  I would be interested to hear what you are using as a spacer and how you plan on strengthening the door panels after they're cut.

haemphyst wrote:

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Having never heard the Basslink, I can't say for certain. Probably, knowing the Harman group, it'll have pretty good output. How deep will it go? Couldn't say, perhaps some other members could have a little bit of input there. Another nice part about the amp you are considering, is the crossovers will allow you to match the bottom frequency of the highs, to the top frequency of the subwoofer system... Nice.

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As far as matching frequencies: if the sub is rated to 20-120 Hz and the 6x9's are rated down to 35 Hz, what is the ideal match?  limiting the 6x9's to above 120 Hz?  Or going to a middle ground, say limiting the sub up to 80 Hz while limiting the 6x9's down to 80Hz?  How might the 6.5" door speakers fit into all of this?  They are rated down to 45 Hz.  Do I match them to the sub too?  Please explain further if I have completely missed the boat.

haemphyst wrote:

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The terminals, I'll have to look again. I can't remember completely which brand or model I have in there. I checked the Stinger site, and there is nothing even similar there anymore, so I'll look again and get brand names. The battery is an upgrade, I stuffed a group 45 in there. Tight, but it fit. The Civic stock battery is (I think) a group 42. Stick with the red top, they are better for car stereo, UNLESS you are planning on lots of parking lot listening time, where a deep cycle (yellow top) will serve you better and last longer. If parking lot is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN for you, then the red top is my strong recommendation.

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Thanks for the recommendation, so you think I should upgrade my battery immediately upon installation?  Forgive me but I am still a newbie.  So the terminals are upgrades to the actual upgraded battery? 

haemphyst wrote:

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The OEM cables are #8, (they are the two white cables attached to your OEM setup) and one of them goes to the starter motor, and the other one goes to the main fuse block, under the hood. You need a positive terminal with provisions for these two cables.

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What do you mean by a positive terminal "with provisions?"  Should I upgrade different connectors on the main fuse block?  So the big three upgrade alternator power cable does not go straight from the alternator to the positive on the battery?  It needs to be added to the main fuse block?  Do additional modifications need to be made to the fuse block?

haemphyst wrote:

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I searched long and hard to find these. I'll try to get pictures of my distribution system as it is now, and post them up for you to see what I am talking about.

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That would be very helpful, I am interested in the wiring setup but it is hard for me to visualize.  How many amps is your system drawing from your alternator?

haemphyst wrote:

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The Optima battery I chose has top and GM side posts, a perfect connection point for the alternator cable, which will simply connect between your alternator output post and the positive terminal on the battery. Here, again, I built my own cables, manufactured the terminals, all connections are soldered and machined. I will always overbuild whenever possible.

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That sounds very adventurous.  What do you mean by having all of your connections "machined?"  Would you recommend a similar path for my system?  Or is my current draw a lot lower than yours so stock connectors are fine?

As far as setting the 125 x 4 wrms amp to the 2-90 wrms speakers, is it simply the gain that is adjusted to limit the power?  Or is there a fundamental rule that I am oblivious to?  Any additional explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Do you use any method of protecting the speakers in the doors?  I have read about "baffles" which are installed behind the speaker to keep it free of water and dust.  They are also supposed to give the speakers "tighter bass."  Would they possibly cause the speakers to overheat?

When I installed the 6x9's in the rear, they were so deep I had to uninstall the tension bars that allow the trunk to function properly.  So for the past couple years the trunk is just a dead weight.  I have been using a tennis racket to prop it up during everyday use.  I have thought of installing two of those hydraulic arms that most cars use for their trunks, althought it would be a complicated fabrication.  The other thought is taking the speakers out of the rear ports (as they have poor imaging since they point straight up) and placing them in enclosures wedged inbetween the rear glass and the plastic deck behind the rear seats.  Do you have any thoughts on the issue?

Thanks again!  I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

mattmc wrote:

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haemphyst wrote:

---

As of now, I am trying to NOT cut, if I don't have to. Sadly, I might have to, finally, as I want to install a pair of Adire Extremis 6.8's into the door right now, and having VERY little luck. Spacers will be mandatory, as will cutting out the inside of the door panel. I'll have to remove some of the ribs that are on the backside of the panel for it to fit. I am still afraid I might even hit the window with these drivers... SOOO deep...

---

Those are some very nice speakers. They will definitely bring the lower frequencies up front. What amp will you be powering them with? I would be interested to hear what you are using as a spacer and how you plan on strengthening the door panels after they're cut.

---

mattmc wrote:

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haemphyst wrote:

---

Having never heard the Basslink, I can't say for certain. Probably, knowing the Harman group, it'll have pretty good output. How deep will it go? Couldn't say, perhaps some other members could have a little bit of input there. Another nice part about the amp you are considering, is the crossovers will allow you to match the bottom frequency of the highs, to the top frequency of the subwoofer system... Nice.

---

As far as matching frequencies: if the sub is rated to 20-120 Hz and the 6x9's are rated down to 35 Hz, what is the ideal match? limiting the 6x9's to above 120 Hz? Or going to a middle ground, say limiting the sub up to 80 Hz while limiting the 6x9's down to 80Hz? How might the 6.5" door speakers fit into all of this? They are rated down to 45 Hz. Do I match them to the sub too? Please explain further if I have completely missed the boat.

---

mattmc wrote:

---

haemphyst wrote:

---

The terminals, I'll have to look again. I can't remember completely which brand or model I have in there. I checked the Stinger site, and there is nothing even similar there anymore, so I'll look again and get brand names. The battery is an upgrade, I stuffed a group 45 in there. Tight, but it fit. The Civic stock battery is (I think) a group 42. Stick with the red top, they are better for car stereo, UNLESS you are planning on lots of parking lot listening time, where a deep cycle (yellow top) will serve you better and last longer. If parking lot is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN for you, then the red top is my strong recommendation.

---

Thanks for the recommendation, so you think I should upgrade my battery immediately upon installation? Forgive me but I am still a newbie. So the terminals are upgrades to the actual upgraded battery?

---

mattmc wrote:

---

haemphyst wrote:

---

The OEM cables are #8, (they are the two white cables attached to your OEM setup) and one of them goes to the starter motor, and the other one goes to the main fuse block, under the hood. You need a positive terminal with provisions for these two cables.

---

What do you mean by a positive terminal "with provisions?" Should I upgrade different connectors on the main fuse block? So the big three upgrade alternator power cable does not go straight from the alternator to the positive on the battery? It needs to be added to the main fuse block? Do additional modifications need to be made to the fuse block?

---

mattmc wrote:

---

haemphyst wrote:

---

I searched long and hard to find these. I'll try to get pictures of my distribution system as it is now, and post them up for you to see what I am talking about.

---

That would be very helpful, I am interested in the wiring setup but it is hard for me to visualize. How many amps is your system drawing from your alternator?

---

mattmc wrote:

---

haemphyst wrote:

---

The Optima battery I chose has top and GM side posts, a perfect connection point for the alternator cable, which will simply connect between your alternator output post and the positive terminal on the battery. Here, again, I built my own cables, manufactured the terminals, all connections are soldered and machined. I will always overbuild whenever possible.

---

That sounds very adventurous. What do you mean by having all of your connections "machined?" Would you recommend a similar path for my system? Or is my current draw a lot lower than yours so stock connectors are fine?

As far as setting the 125 x 4 wrms amp to the 2-90 wrms speakers, is it simply the gain that is adjusted to limit the power? Or is there a fundamental rule that I am oblivious to? Any additional explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Do you use any method of protecting the speakers in the doors? I have read about "baffles" which are installed behind the speaker to keep it free of water and dust. They are also supposed to give the speakers "tighter bass." Would they possibly cause the speakers to overheat?

When I installed the 6x9's in the rear, they were so deep I had to uninstall the tension bars that allow the trunk to function properly. So for the past couple years the trunk is just a dead weight. I have been using a tennis racket to prop it up during everyday use. I have thought of installing two of those hydraulic arms that most cars use for their trunks, althought it would be a complicated fabrication. The other thought is taking the speakers out of the rear ports (as they have poor imaging since they point straight up) and placing them in enclosures wedged inbetween the rear glass and the plastic deck behind the rear seats. Do you have any thoughts on the issue?

Thanks again! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

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