Square Speakers, Why?

Has sound production changed in recent years to the point that a square speaker can create a smooth soundwave? Everything I've read and graphs I've seen, have always showed round speakers to reproduce the most accurate waveforms. Even oval 4x6 or 6x9 speakers are flawed, but "square"??? (One example; I've heard from people that "Kicker" brand is good. Now I have serious doubts!)

Me thinks "marketing" is spinning and dazzling those blinded by chrome and appearance, with no facts of the truth...or have I missed something? If volume for the sake of loud noise is most important, then I guess quality sound would not matter huh?

I'll believe it when I can throw a rock in the water, and see square ripples waving out!

I'm with you on this one.  Even without all the technical background, oval speakers just sound bad.

geezeride wrote:

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I'll believe it when I can throw a rock in the water, and see square ripples waving out!

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Well, to be fair, the radiation pattern (the ripples) has nothing to do with whether a transductor can create a smooth wave form.

The "smoothness" of the wave has more to do with the linearity of the motor with the attached cone.

Problems develop when the cone is oddly shaped some odd pressure points around the cone and the surround. This affects the ability of the speaker to -maintain- its linearity (and for the cone to retain its rigidity) when the volume level is increased.


At the core, I agree with you. The potential increase in sensitivity and max SPL because of the enlarged woofer area does not seem like it would be worth the materials and design challenges.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

What about Kickers heart shaped sub???

A square transducer can and does produce excellent sound quality.  Look at high-end ribbon tweeters.  The Kicker square subs (or the Bazooka triangular ones, or the Sony pentagonal ones, etc.) are simply built like that for marketing reasons.

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Kicker's promo on the square sub is the 12" square one has more cone area than the 12" round sub, therefore it "moves more air".

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'85 Toy

supradude wrote:

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Kicker's promo on the square sub is the 12" square one has more cone area than the 12" round sub, therefore it "moves more air".

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Which may indeed be true.  That doesn't mean it sounds like anything other than luke-warm ass, though. 

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supradude wrote:

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Kicker's promo on the square sub is the 12" square one has more cone area than the 12" round sub, therefore it "moves more air".

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Who cares? Their sensitivity isn't that impressive.

2 woofers. One square that "moves more air" and one that's more efficient, it'll always take more watts to make the square woofer produce the same number of decibels.

Frankly, I dislike kicker for feeding the "displacement is king" obsession of car audio.

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

DYohn] wrote:

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supradude wrote:

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Kicker's promo on the square sub is the 12" square one has more cone area than the 12" round sub, therefore it "moves more air".

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Which may indeed be true.  That doesn't mean it sounds like anything other than luke-warm ass, though. 

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LOL...Perfect!

Likewise, banging on a garage door or empty oil drum can get loud too. I wouldn't include those to reproduce quality sound...

Those that just want LOUD, could easily damage their hearing for much less cost & hassle - just use good full-cup headphones. (but of course that all-important "kewl factor" would be gone)

It's all about marketing to the gullible kids with money.
Sorry kids, that's the reality. The only escape is learn the facts, cuz (yawn), knowledge is power! hehe, yea, I AM yer Dad! -Square as a Kicker!!!

DYohn] wrote:

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A square transducer can and does produce excellent sound quality.  Look at high-end ribbon tweeters.  The Kicker square subs (or the Bazooka triangular ones, or the Sony pentagonal ones, etc.) are simply built like that for marketing reasons.

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Ribbon tweeters (any tweeters), are a completely different animal from the bass! Crispy, sharp, bright...nothing I would want from the sub end...

I have no prob admitting "round speakers are boring." But they DO produce the smoothest low-end waveforms, which is what we're all after- accurate reproduction of the original sound source.

I haven't disected them, but my guess is that all those "rad-kewl" shaped speakers have round magnets and voice coils. the cones & surrounds are just sales fluff to pitch "NEW!-NEW!-NEW!" to impulsive buyers.

Hey, I'm a geezer, I 'could' be wrong! Maybe I read too many things on audio reproduction over the years. I am NOT a guru at all! Just kinda well rounded in many facets of life so far-

I certainly am a noob with setting up my own car audio system! That's why I'm here, to learn, and hopefully to share what I DO know! (and true, I have 4x6 and 6x9 speakers in the car...can't afford to mod to rounds!) Though I did add 6" rounds to the rear doors.
Thanks to all of you for being here, I DO appreciate it!
-Picts of my project results will be posted when I get there...

geezeride wrote:

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I have no prob admitting "round speakers are boring." But they DO produce the smoothest low-end waveforms, which is what we're all after- accurate reproduction of the original sound source.

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That's just because the few square (or non-round) subs you are familiar with weren't designed for SQ. That doesn't mean that they can't have just as good "smoothest low-end waveforms". A perfect example would be the Adire Parthenon that utilizes a square baffel and is probably more linear (will produce smoother waveforms) than any sub you have experience with.

Easy now, I knew I'd get a response out of my post, but re-read it. I said "Kicker's promo", which is what they said as their reason to build them square, not that I agree with them. I was simply answering a question.

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'85 Toy

geezeride wrote:

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I have no prob admitting "round speakers are boring." But they DO produce the smoothest low-end waveforms, which is what we're all after- accurate reproduction of the original sound source.
...

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Actually this is simply incorrect.  The "smoothness" of the reproduced waveform is a function of the motor assembly and the stiffness of the diaphragm, not its shape.  As Steven mentions above, one of the best subwoofers ever invented is designed to use a square diaphragm.  Plus, a tweeter and a woofer actually do pretty much the same things, just in different frequency bands.

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What about a driver with a irregular cone face? I don't know a model to referance off the top of my head... but I have seen some that are not smooth. Would that play any role in sound reproduction?

Not in the sub frequencies.

heh, OK guys, I did my geezer-rant on the general subject, and yea there's always some exception to everything i guess...

I'l let y'all take it to the micro-fine nitpicky details that only the the finest-sub-atomic-microcilloscope could detail!

have fun & thanks for the feedback!

In the proper box a Kicker L7 can sound just as good as any other sub..... and yes they do have more suface area.... up to 20% depending on size so it does move more air than other subs ( for the most part) u also have to remember that it is a SPL sub..... its not really meant to sound good just to be loud

kicker guy wrote:

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In the proper box a Kicker L7 can sound just as good as any other sub..... and yes they do have more suface area.... up to 20% depending on size so it does move more air than other subs ( for the most part) u also have to remember that it is a SPL sub..... its not really meant to sound good just to be loud

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good, so for competition, these would be great.  But I think most of us here are looking for daily driver type SQ.  I've had dozens of setups in my different cars (4 in just the last one), and I, by far, prefer a quiet system that sounds good over a loud system that sounds bad.

I also like SQ, but it has to have some bump or it's a waste IMO. You can have both with the proper enclosure.

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'85 Toy

Surprisingly, as a subwoofer (which is what they are designed to be) these Tang-Bands do a (significantly) better than average job. For the guy who wants to add a little bit of low end, without giving up ANY trunk space, these are a SUPER choice. A good 200 watt amp, bridged to a pair of those will really surprise you!

These are probably what my wife gets when we buy a new car for her, and I am FORCED to swap out the stock system, because I won't be able to listen to it on trips!

Speaking of which, anybody touch the new Honda "Fit" yet? What's the stereo like?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

kicker guy wrote:

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In the proper box a Kicker L7 can sound just as good as any other sub..... and yes they do have more suface area.... up to 20% depending on size so it does move more air than other subs ( for the most part) u also have to remember that it is a SPL sub..... its not really meant to sound good just to be loud

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It's pure marketing though. The L7 is rated based on it's smallest "diameter". However if we measure it's diagonal and compare it to subs of the same diameter, you will find the square shape to be a disadvantage.

beerbeerbeer i love beer.

goodnoght all, i have to get up ver yearly in the mornig... not really suer why this post, but thwere ya go!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

friends don't let friends drink anf type... bwahahaha!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Hey Dave, as your friend, I am taking away your keyboard.  I'm your designated typer.  :)

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