factory stereo to rca adaptor

hi, does any one know where i could find or if they make an adaptor of some sorts to add rca's to a factory stereo that does not have any. i currently have a hi-lo adaptor which i tapped into the rear speakers to signal an amp for subs. this has been working ok but lowers the rear speakers output quality considerably. my stereo is the ford 6 disc. i really dont want to go through the trouble of replacing it with aftermarket, unless i really have to.

There should be no audible difference. Try using a high quality, adjustable loc.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Agreed, a quality LOC is about the only way I know of to do that conversion. And unfortunately you are hitting the snag, lowered performance to the rear speakers. Since you are tieing into that connection, the once dedicated speaker signal now gets split and the performance suffers a little.

what make and model amp are you using?

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Im useing a hi-lo adaptor that is adjustable, to a punch 600 mono block. The amp is putting out massive power for me but the rear factory speakers are not as loud and as clear as before. So by having this hi-lo adaptor tapped into the rear speaker lines does it have that much pull to rob power from the stock speakers on that line? What about adding a four channel amp to run the four speakers?

I know the pro's out there have more specific math to do this, so just remember I'm only an enthusiast!

Imagine a rope that goes from point A to point B is 1" thick and can deliver 100% to point B.

Now split that rope at point B into 2 smaller ropes each 0.5" thick going to points C and D. They are delivered 50% each.

In your original stereo configuration, point A is the headunit and point B is the rear speaker.

In your NEW stereo configuration, point A is the headunit, point B is the hi-low adapter, point C is the speaker, and point D is the amp.

Now read the analogy again and you should see why the signal going to the speaker is weaker (less wattage being delivered).



It's not an exact 50/50 split, but you should get the general idea. Your headunit only has a finite amout of wattage that it puts out per channel. If it puts out 25 watts per channel, then each speaker gets 25 watts. By tieing into that line you are essentially robbing some of that 25 watts and sending it to another device (the amp).

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

cva me wrote:

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What about adding a four channel amp to run the four speakers?

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Are you referring to tieing another amp into that hi-low converter and running new speaker wires from the amp to the 4 speakers?

If you are then save yourself a lot of time and just install an aftermarket headunit with RCA preouts. You can reuse the factory wiring to the headunit (with an inexpensive easy-to-use harness adapter) and run new RCA's. Otherwise you'll be running new speaker wire throughout the entire car (which I personally recommend since I hate the 24 guage factory wiring (or whatever it is))

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

I use the PAC PSI2 adjustable line output converters and have never had an issue. Now as far as it lowering your rear speakers output that is a new one to me and I have been using LOC's for years and years. either its a really cheap one, defective or wired improperly. Yes, theoretically and common sense would make you think the converter will take power away from the speakers you connect it to. But since I understand ohms law I will explain why it will not. first off it is connected in parallel which every installer should know when you connect in parallel the impedance or resistance is lowered and the power increases. "But why ?" you may ask do I not notice the speakers in the back are louder? Because they have resistors in the LOC's and basically the speaker output of the deck/amp do not even know anything is connected to it, at least not anything you should be able to hear a difference with. This all goes out the window if its installed wrong and as simple as it may seem to most of you to install these I occasionally see improperly installed ones come to my shop and once I re-install it properly it works like it should. Not to mention defective cheap ones, I wouldn't even bother with those.

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I understand Ohms Law to an extent and basically: less ohms = less resistance = more power. There's no arguing that fact.

I've always looked at LOC's from the "theoritical or common sense" side and never thought to apply Ohms Law when dealing with LOC's. Amps/speaker combinitations and wiring I apply it, but for some reason I never did with LOC's. Plus every stereo I ever heard that was using LOC's always sounded horrible so I've always avoided using them. But since the people that installed them weren't pros either that could explain it. *laughing*

Thx for the correction

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Don't feel bad at all WV, I know many "pro" installers, even some who are certified that still can't grasp ohms law, or wire a relay without a diagram (sad). Lord knows how they passed MECP. Anyhow LOC's are here to stay. On many newer vehicles you can't even change the deck for one reason or another, at least not without extensive and expensive modifications. Now don't get me wrong, I love making custom dashboards and all that but the average customer can't afford it or perhaps it's a lease and no permenent mods allowed. So when they come to me for better sound of course we all know the first thing to do is add an amp/sub. At least in my opinion thats the best bang for the buck, speaker upgrades and perhaps a mid/highs amp are next if they want more. I can promise you first hand that I do at least one system a day using an LOC to a factory deck and I have not had one sound bad yet. On some vehicles it actually makes the system sound incredible with the stock deck and speakers. Some factory systems in newer cars are not half bad to begin with, have amps, subs, components, center channel but the factroy sub is still the weak link in my opinion. Actually I am a little embaressed to admit this but on my last car , a 98 mustang GT, I kept the factory deck because it had a tape and cd. Well I play in a band and we recorded our rehersals with cassette so I wanted to keep it. I added an LOC to a 4 channel amp and ran all the interior speakers and a 10'' JLw6 in a fiberglass enclosure I molded  into the right rear fenderwell area. People would freak how good it sounded that it actually helped me with amp/sub sales and installs to customers that wanted to keep the factory. They just didn't know this could be done until I showed them.

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Wow, Thanks alot for the good advice you guys are great. I did a little experement, i disconnected the hi-lo adaptor and the SQ never changed. I made sure it was connected correctly, I dont know if its a cheapo or not- paid $35.00 for it, it is adjustable. I also have a friend with a truck same as mine- "04" ford f250 crew cab" his stock speakers sound same as mine do. I bought it used as did he. The speakers sound like listening to loud music from the "apartment next door". muffled at best. As stated before i have the ford 6 disc stereo. I cant find any of the specs on it. Is this a good factory deck/poor speaker set up or just poor all the way around.
I am seriously considering going after market deck,if the test 5x7 infinity's im borrowing dont sound good either. Any advice on what brand deck is good for crisp SQ ?? "I know good SQ costs more"
Thanks

High quality aftermarket headunits: nakamichi, eclipse, alpine (to name a few)

I ran Infinity Kappa 5x7's in my Explorer and they were awesome (although they were powered at 80 watts per speaker).

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

yeah the ford pickups are not that great for sound, especially in the rear. The speakers are in a horrible position and not really baffeled at all, unless you call screwed to a piece of sheet metel a baffle. If you are going to use the bass setup you have the best thing I can  suggest is get some power to your front and rears, a good clean 4 channel. A new deck will also make a huge improvment, like cva said buy a name brand deck, they all have about the same power but if you add an amps it won't matter. the more you pay is for bells and whistles, motorized face, etc so if you don't care about that why pay for it. However you should make sure the new deck has front, rear and sub preouts. An aux in is nice as well as satellite ready or ipod ready if you are an mp3 type. many decks these days can do both.. A new deck, the infinitys, clean power and the bass you have already should make a day and night difference. If you don't want to do the 4ch. amp yet the deck and speaker swap alone will help but I know from experience that power really helps with the shortcommings of the poor design of the factory setup.

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oops I forgot to paragraph, my bad.

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I have an Alpine CDA-7995 headunit. It has no internal amp and therefore no high level outputs. The HU requires external amps for all speakers (using RCA pre-outs for front, rear, and sub).

The benefit, a nice clean low level signal going to the amps.

The detriment, you need more than just a sub amp *laughing* More power draw from the amps since you run at least 2 if you set the system up correctly. So it helps if you beef up the alternator as well.

I also have the Alpine adapter that allows me to directly connect my iRiver MP3 player into the headunit via a phono-to-RCA connection. It's crystal clear, and awesome having 20GB worth of music at the push of a button.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Oh cool, your right on the money. you don't need my help anymore. Enjoy the system and the hell with LOC's, seems you are an sq person buying an expensive deck like that. why did you even bother with any of the factory junk to begin with? Also you said it was an F-250 right? That has a decent alternator, I wouldn't worry about running a sub amp and 4 channel unless you are doing serious, serious power. If so, do a little ohms law or check for voltage drop at the amps and upgrade if needed , but I doubt it, I never had to on f250's just for 2 amps (well reasonable, I am not talking about 5000 watts here, under 500w RMS, not what the amp has printed on its cover)

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oops, sorry squirrel, i though you were the original post, the guy with the line out converters, haha, I know you got it goin on. but I tried to give you good advice anyway...peace

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*laughing* Now you see why I don't deal with LOC's. I like a good combination of SQ and SPL, so I design my systems with mid to high quality equipment and adajustability/adaptability. You need to start with a good headunit if you want to get it right. Just my opinion. You just can't seem to get that with factory systems *laughing*

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

we are in agreement there. Factory decks with loc's should be for people who just want to add some "oomf" to thier stock system or for vehicles where deck swaps are too expensive or where  extensive modifications are required and the customer is not willing. Like I stated, I have gotten LOC's to make factory decks sound pretty good, well good enough for the average listener but a factory deck/system will never have the fidelity or flexibility of a properly designed aftermarket.

take it light buddy

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Thanks master5, squirrel, and to all the other guys that helped me with this. Looks like im in the market for a new deck. i'll take my time cause there is alot to choose from. Looking for good power,SQ,CD,MP3- storage/player thingy "so my kids will think im cool" with good security features. I havent heard much talk about Kenwood decks? Are they not as good as they used to be. Thanks again everybody you guys are the best

hey cva, good to see you again. You are opening a potential can of worms by asking anyone here to reccomend a product based on brand name, or anywhere else for that matter. I use about 8 different name brand head units and all serve thier purpose. Depends alot on the customers tastes and needs.

As far as kenwoods not being good as they used to be I find that to be the case with most brands these days, they just are not the same, probably due to all the overseas farming. However, reliability is up in most cases unless you get a lemon and the kenwood decks (in my opinion) are one of the best sounding out of the box compared to others.

But since it appears you are using amps simply pick a unit in your price range that has the features you require. In addition, I would also base your selection on what is pleasing to your eye as you have to live with that everyday and if you can't stand something that looks wrong in your dash you will eventually regret the purchase.

Best of luck.

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Thanks again master5, I see what you mean with the worms thing...ie "ford-chevy, seal-ported, coke-pepsi" I have been a fan of kenwood,alpine,pioneer decks in that order. There are just so many different models to chose from.
Just an update for those interested the test infinity reference 6812's used, did clear up the highs dramaticly on the stock deck but at the expense of losing the mid bass and lower midrange the factory speakers had.
Thanks again

cva, you are welcome. I have to ask this.Did you double check that the speakers are in phase? That could be a reason for the Infinities loss of midbass. You probably know what you are doing but sometimes even the best of us overlook the simplest things. If not then it is just the lack of power. I would imagine those speakers would really wake up with an amp, not to mention the sq improvment when you get your new deck.

Many times customers come in with new speakers for me to install but the deck is stock and they have no amp/sub. I ask them why they are changing the speakers because I know many times the improvment is very small, if any, unless of course they are replacing the stock ones because they are blown. If they just want crisper highs then they might be happy but if they expect any kind of drastic improvment from just replacing a 6.5 or 6 x 8 etc. for another, in my experience it doesn't really do too much with a stock deck.

Later

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Master5, thanks again. Could you please refreash me on what you meant by "in phase"? A little quick history on my car audio. Did install and side sales with a couple of friends in the early to mid "80's" for extra $$ in High school. Back then pyramid was still out and Pyle was getting big, Fosgate was for the upper class due to expense. Install was easier then, not to much to choose from. Now car audio became a whole culture of its own. I am planning to go with a high power good deck and hopefully do without another amp, but because this is an addiction i probaly will anyway. The stockers were 25watts, did'nt say peak or rms. The infinity's which im keeping are 60 rms. So if you could explain what you meant by "phase", id appreciate it.
Thanks

Unless I miss my guess, Master5 is talking about making sure the positive and negative leads are hooked up correctly. It's a common reason for the loss of bass frequencies.

The easiest way to find the positive and negative on a speaker that isn't marked is called "popping" the speaker. Simply take a 9'volt battery (a cordless drill battery works as well) and run seperate wires from the + and - of the battery to the leads on the speaker. If the speaker "pops" out then you have the correct + and -. If the speaker "pulls" in then you have it reversed.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Squirrel is correct. and it's funny you posting the battery test as I just posted that to someone else who is going nuts trying to find hs speaker wires. small world.

Anyhow, do what he says.......Phasing as to do with the time/distance that the sound from stereo speakers reach the listener. Basically if you took 2 house speakers and sat directly in front of each, and they are electrically in phase (more on that soon) they would also be acustically in phase. Now if you stayed seated in the same position, and had some else start moving one of the speakers away from you, you would start to notice a dimishing of bass response. The sound energy, (afterall a speaker is really an air pump in a sense) is now not equal so they are not working together to sum thier total energy.

Now has the one speaker keeps moving away this can be measured in degrees. At a certain distance the speakers can be considered as 180 degrees acoustcally out of phase. At this point you will have the weakest bass response. If this seems a little confusing don't worry, it's also been so long since I was teaching this I am actually struggling with terminology but can still make the point.

Now in a car you are basically stuck with where the speakers will be placed, yes you can modify things and put them almost anywhere but they will be fixed so as far as acoustcal phasing there is not much we can do in a car environment. You might have seen so alla out demo vehicles where they put the drivers seat in the middle and set it way back. Well this not only benifits acoustic phasing, but staging and imaging at that level in a car can perform almost as well as a home system. But thats an extreme example.

electricalphasing in a car, which is the real issue here there is only 2 ways you can have it wired. either in phase (0 degrees or 360 degrees, don't matter, same thing) OR 180 degress out of phase. For this we will only discuss 2 front speakers but all the speakers should be in phase. Sometimes sub amps or electronic cross overs have a phasing switch for the woofer(s).

now although the woofers themselves if using more then one must be electrically in phase with each other to produce soild bass, the woofers themselves can be out of phase with the rest of the speakers in the car since like in my earler wxample, distance has an effect and where the enclosure is located, the size of the car, etc, will effect the distance and what part of the bass wave hits your ears and when.

All you need to worry about with your 2 front speakers is that they are wired in phase electrically (like squirrel says, the the positve terminal of the left side speaker is going to the positive side of the correct output of the deck/amp and the same for the right side. Too many times this is overlooked either because the installer doen't know the color code, or was careless and just made a boo-boo. Thats why I say to always double check when there a bass response problem no matter who. Mistakes happen. don't forget the rears also. Just rinse and repeat the battery test on those as well.

when the speakers in your vehicle are electrically wired 180 degress out of phase (one side has the positive and negative reversed in respect to the other) the speakers move air against each other instead of with each other, effectivly cancelling most of the bass, mid bass out, which sux.

Now keep in mind if both of the speakers were wired backwards it would make no difference that you could notice by ear. Both speakers are still electrically in phase. audio is AC, so the speaker is just moving back and forth moving air. Now even at the lowest bass note a human can theoretically hear, 30hz...that cone is moving back and forth 30 times a second. If anyone could notice that by ear I also have a space ship in my garage and it can time travel.

I know this reply is long but I actually explained this the simplist way, over simplified it but I think you get the jist.

Easy one guys.

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oops, I meant 20hz as the lowest. I am not well....lol But still that 20 times second, not exactly a snail.

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