Printer Friendly Forum Posts - whats the best way to wire 6 subs

If you try to wire all 6 to 1 amp you will get either:

(6) 2ohm DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Parallel / Parallel: 0.167ohms
posted_image

or

(6) 2ohm DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel: 0.7ohms
posted_image

Unless your amp is sub-1ohm stable, then I suggest taking coppellstereo's advice and use both amps with (3) subs per amp like this:

(3) 2ohm DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel: 1.33ohms
posted_image

*Images courtesy of JL Audio and Rockford Fosgate*

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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There is another option if you wish to use only one amp. unfortunatly I don't have those diagrams like wvsquirrel, those are sweet but I will tell you how. wire the DCV's parallel so each is 1 ohm. Now series three of them together, which will be a total impedance of 3 ohms. Now do the same with the other 3. You now have another set of subs with 3 ohms total impedance. Parallel these together and you will have 1.5 ohms, which is more then safe to use with a 1 ohm stable amp. In addition this setup will help it run a little cooler if for daily use and still be plenty loud. Now all this goes out the window if you are not using a mono amp as a stereo amp bridged to this load will operate at under 1 ohm causing heat issues and protection mode kick in. I am not the biggest fan of running multiple subs in series (the circuit I gave is a parallel/series/parallel) as I have heard at an RTTI (rockford technical training institute)seminar I attended that it may affect dampening ability in a negative way. However, this will work and if you supply enough power I am sure this will sound fine and I have done it this way before. Sometimes you gotta work with what ya got and bend the rules, as long as it's safe. I am also not a fan of running anything at 1 ohm, even if an amp is capable since the impedance can drop so low while operating (we all know the impedance goes up and down while operating, right?) that it is too close to a short for comfort and will always run hot, heat causes damage, damage = money which most people I know don't have enough, myself included.. For competition that is a different story as back in the day I would sometimes run down to as low as 1/2 ohm (plenty of cooling nessecary) and with the right amp you could be in a 0-100 watt power class but actually be producing 800 watts RMS at .5 ohms. One of my demo vehicles had 11 speakers running off one amp...2 subs, 4 rear fill, 4 front and a center channel and I hand built all the crossovers.

Everything on this post reply is my opinion and from experience so please no one argue with me, I promise I am nice and know what I am doing...well at least most of the time.

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I'm not an expert, but I still feel like an idiot for missing that *laughing* If I did it right, here's the diagram:

(6) 2ohm DVC drivers: 1.5ohms
posted_image

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Looks like you did it right.. parallel/series/parallel is what I see. I may know ohms law like the back of my hand but I wish I had the talent to do diagrams like that. when I worked at the school I had to write a textbook and they hired some computer art geek to do all the diagrams. Now I am writing another book since I left the school I was too nice and gave up my royalties. I am now going to have to figure out how to do the art on my own as I have no way of paying anyone else and the few friends I have that can do this are too lazy to help me, or do anything for that matter. Have a good one.

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No offense, but I hope you don't expect to get the listed ratings for either amplifier.

The Massive Audio 3000 watt amp is listed at 3000x1@2ohms.
The Earthquake 5000 watt amp is also listed at 3000x1@2ohms.

Neither of the amps were listed at 1ohm stable. Which means if you try ANY of the wiring diagrams I listed above, you run a severe risk of damaging the amp(s) as well as the subs.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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wvsquirrel wrote:

No offense, but I hope you don't expect to get the listed ratings for either amplifier.

The Massive Audio 3000 watt amp is listed at 3000x1@2ohms.
The Earthquake 5000 watt amp is also listed at 3000x1@2ohms.

Neither of the amps were listed at 1ohm stable. Which means if you try ANY of the wiring diagrams I listed above, you run a severe risk of damaging the amp(s) as well as the subs.

i could have swore the massive audio amp is stable at one ohm. I bought it used, but it was always ran at 2 ohms, and for the earthquake amp, it is stable at one ohms. Now im not gonng use both amps, not the same. Just the one that is best for the job of running both subs.

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goingcrazyonsound

They might be 1ohm stable. The specs I found were from aftermarket sites, not the manufacturers.

BTW, the reason I said not to expect the rated values for either amp is most manufacturers base their ratings on a 14.4 volt electrical system, not a standard 12.4 volt electrical system.

Good luck

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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nouseforaname wrote:

nouseforaname wrote:

what kind of subs are they?

just curious.

they the massive audio dmx 12's

they going in a enclosure built for 6 subs. Im almost postive they should make some serious bang, and im hoping the sq is good to

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goingcrazyonsound

oh oh, i have a problem. I thought the subs were dvc subs and i just took one sub all the way out the box and it has three sets of speaker terminals. I have never seen this before, and before everybody gets started, when i got the subs, all i did was open up each box to make sure they was in there, i never took them out. So im sure this just screws up all my wire options huh?

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goingcrazyonsound

nouseforaname wrote:

i've heard of dual and quad voice coils, but 3 coils? that's new to me to. i have no experience with massive so i can't help you much. are you sure about the impedances you specified?

your right they quad, 4 of them, i seen three and was like wtf, now that its all the way out its 4,

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goingcrazyonsound

Post the impedance of the voice coils and we can try again to show you 1 and/ or 2 ohm setups. You should have alot more flexibility with 4 voice coils although I have never used one personally I would assume they are quad coils for vesitility. If I am wrong about this someone post. can't wait to see that diagram ; )

Thanks

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master5 wrote:

Post the impedance of the voice coils and we can try again to show you 1 and/ or 2 ohm setups. You should have alot more flexibility with 4 voice coils although I have never used one personally I would assume they are quad coils for vesitility. If I am wrong about this someone post. can't wait to see that diagram ; )
Thanks

they one ohm, im mad now because i ordered these subs over the phone and i said i wanted 2 ohm dvcs, but thats what i get for not double checking the order after they arrrived. i had these for 2 months now. And im not gonna waste money shipping these back because they so heavy and its not worth it when i believe i can still work with what i have. And they going in a tahoe if that helps.

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goingcrazyonsound

If you've got the DMX 12 Stage2 then those puppies are rated at 2500RMS 5000Peak. And you still want to run 6 of them? You'll be massivly underpowering them.

So you're saying that they are 1ohm QVC's? This is going to be an interesting diagram that will take some time. Unfortunately I don't think I'll have the time to dedicate to it until at least Sunday.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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Ok I found a good base model for the QVC's. I'll see what I can do., I just hope I get the ohms right *laughing*

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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wvsquirrel wrote:

If you've got the DMX 12 Stage2 then those puppies are rated at 2500RMS 5000Peak. And you still want to run 6 of them? You'll be massivly underpowering them.

So you're saying that they are 1ohm QVC's? This is going to be an interesting diagram that will take some time. Unfortunately I don't think I'll have the time to dedicate to it until at least Sunday.

ya thats what they are. I heard good things about them and i have always used only eclipse and kicker, ya i know kicker is not in the same class, but since the dealer was local to me and i did a lot of research online, i decided massive fits my budget perfect. I hope im not under powering them. I might order another massive 3000 watt amp. They also run 6000 to 2 ohms, and they on ebay right now brand new for 460 plus shipping. So i would use 2 massive amps if they are gonna be under powered. But i have never no subs being able to run at that wattage, especially at what i paid for these. 320 apiece and thats cheap for a subwoofer that i have heard good things from, even cheaper then the eclipse ti subs

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goingcrazyonsound

comon squirell, post that diagram. It is going to look like a cluster of spyders but if I made it you would never even be able to tell they are speakers. I also will try to set up configurations but am burned out now. another time or hopefully someone else has the patience. When those woofs are hooked I reccomend hearing protection, those 6 subs are going to be moving alot of air.

I figure these subs can be wired to run 4ohm,series, 2ohm,series/ parallel, 1ohm, parallel/series,or 1/4 ohm, parallel...that sound accurate?

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Ok, you wanted them you got them!

Base Models taken directly from the Monster Audio DMX Manual
posted_image

These images are 100% accurate (unless Monster Audio screwed up their manual)

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Manipulated Base Models (accuracy UNKNOWN)
posted_image

Please let me know if the Manipulated Base Models are accurate. I've never done 6 1ohm QVC's before so please be gentle posted_image

I'm more than happy to modify them if you tell me where the error's are.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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squirrel, you rock. I am too burnt right now to determine the accuracy but knowing you they are on the money. I am seeing double looking at all those lines, lol, I installed 4 huge audio systems between yesterday and today as well as sattelite systems, bluetooth interfaces, security etc., I am not too alert right now. The good news is I am off tomorrow, will sleep like a rock but I have 2 cars of my own under construction that need attention....does it EVER end???

The last install I just got home from was a conversion van,6 speaker with amps plus sub ,sirius, multimedia, switching systems for headphones in the back, basically a clusterf^%k. In addition another installer started the job and had to leave right after he tore it apart so I got to figure out how to put humpty dumpty back together again on my own ,and this vehicle had very little of it's stock interior since it was a conversion..........But I love it.

But once again I am impressed. I'll try to verify the diagrams when I can see straight again.

Peace.

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Also, when I posted what I believe these subs can be wire for as far as ohm load I was talking about each individual sub on it's own. Not all six as I have not the patience at the time. Thank you again for the posting those diagrams.

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Another Manipulated Base Model (accuracy UNKNOWN)
posted_image

If I did this one correctly it should be around a 1.5ohm load.

Again, please let me know if any of these are drawn incorrectly.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Why does it feel like I'm looking at circuit boards? *laughing*

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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Because thats pretty much what a circuit board can look like on paper. *laughing too* I can just imagine the disasters happening with unskilled back yarders trying to wire up quad voice coils. As it is I only know a small handful of DYI'ers that can even wire a DVC correctly, much less understand the difference between an amp rated @ 2 ohm stereo vs. 2 ohm mono. But still, its a fun business.

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I spent years tracing circuits and looking at wiring and circuit diagrams when I was a C-130 Turbopropulsion Specialist. So I rather enjoyed the flashback *laughing*

I learned my basic stereo knowledge from trial and error, the rest I learned here by reading back posts. When I joined in '02 I had no idea what a DVC was, nor did I know anything about the proper ways to match subs to amps (ohms, wattage, etc), proper wiring methodologies, or much else for that matter. This forum has increased my knowledge at least 10-fold over the years, and to a dedicated DIY'er that's enormous!

So I enjoy challenges like this because I get to show myself just how much I've learned (assuming that I did the 4 diagrams correctly *laughing*)

Skylark:
Was there anything else you needed? I hope those diagrams helped! And I would love to hear that system hit!

Since I gave you a diagram for 6 QVC's wired to a 2ohm load, I would try that with one of your current amps first. If you don't like they way it hits then try the 6 QVC's at a 1.5ohm load (again assuming that I did them correctly).

If all else fails and you are still not impressed, then spend the money and get the second amp and run 3 QVC's per amp at a 1ohm load. But I would only do that if I was severely dissappointed with the sound.

You may find that you need a H/O alternator as well, and don't forget to beef up the Big Three (as Dyohn puts it!)

Experts and/or Pro-Installers
Please look at those diagrams, I am dieing to know if I actually did them all correctly!

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

wvsquirrel wrote:

I spent years tracing circuits and looking at wiring and circuit diagrams when I was a C-130 Turbopropulsion Specialist. So I rather enjoyed the flashback *laughing*

I learned my basic stereo knowledge from trial and error, the rest I learned here by reading back posts. When I joined in '02 I had no idea what a DVC was, nor did I know anything about the proper ways to match subs to amps (ohms, wattage, etc), proper wiring methodologies, or much else for that matter. This forum has increased my knowledge at least 10-fold over the years, and to a dedicated DIY'er that's enormous!

So I enjoy challenges like this because I get to show myself just how much I've learned (assuming that I did the 4 diagrams correctly *laughing*)

Skylark:
Was there anything else you needed? I hope those diagrams helped! And I would love to hear that system hit!

Since I gave you a diagram for 6 QVC's wired to a 2ohm load, I would try that with one of your current amps first. If you don't like they way it hits then try the 6 QVC's at a 1.5ohm load (again assuming that I did them correctly).

If all else fails and you are still not impressed, then spend the money and get the second amp and run 3 QVC's per amp at a 1ohm load. But I would only do that if I was severely dissappointed with the sound.

You may find that you need a H/O alternator as well, and don't forget to beef up the Big Three (as Dyohn puts it!)

Experts and/or Pro-Installers
Please look at those diagrams, I am dieing to know if I actually did them all correctly!
thanks im gonna go with the 2 ohm one first, its kinda of confusing but after looking at the graphs i went into my garage and placed the subs by each other then took a spool of wire out and did a walk thru to make sure i can do it, but dont have enough speaker wire lol. But its gonna work, im gonna have to drill some holes in the enlosure and then seal the holes after i put the speaker wire thru. This should work and bang perfect

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goingcrazyonsound

A turbopropropulsion specialist, now thats someone you don't meet eveyday. Must have been quite an experience. And you seem to be getting the audio stuff down well enough and it is good that a DIY'er can learn so much from a public forum,

When I was in high school I had a summer job at my friends fathers factory. He was manufacturing "illegal" CB radio amplifiers or what they call "linears". After we assembled the circuit boards, tested and adjusted the rf and cleaned the power with a scope, they were sent out of the country and then sent back to us packaged as "TVI filters". What a sham, I wonder if that guy is still in business or in jail, i don't know it's been a while.

But I soldered circuit boards about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for 2 months. I still don't know if it caused brain damage but wouldn't be surprised *laughing. Whats funny is that by the end of the summer I was bored with the linears so I started soldering together small sculptures using wire and putting small flashing leds on them. I made jeeps and trucks and dragsters. Well it ends up everyone liked them so much I couldn't make them fast enough to meet demand. I was making more money building those the the linears, and I was on my bosses time and using his equipment and materials. Ah..those were the days.

I still have to check out the ohm loads on those diagrams but I haven't the motivation *laughing But I still am impressed as heck how those came out.

Speak again soon

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Depending on what guage wire you use, you may want to consider using a grommit like this one or something similar, then sealing that.

Another option you have instead of drilling the holes inside the box is to add terminals outside the box. Make a new terminal cup for each sub, wire each sub individually like the diagrams, and then wire the cups together. It sounds a little confusing but I can walk you through it with another diagram if you need posted_image

Although I think wiring inside the enclosure would look a lot cleaner.

Either way just make sure to pay attention to the diagrams. On several (3) of the subs are turned around (spun not flipped) 180 degrees. Just watch the A's and B's, as well as which voice coil are where *laughing* You definitely picked an interesting sub *laughing*

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

Ok squirrel, you did the diagrams when I asked you too, I did the calulations. Not really that difficult but my eyes are tearing just from exhaustion due to working ... lol.

The first diagram shows 3 subs in parallel, the coils wired for 4 onms each. Total load....1.3 ohms..you were darn close for a novice and this setup would have the same rules basically has if it were 1ohm..could still be used.(assuming a 1 ohm stable amp.)

The secong diagram shows the same basic setup but another set of 3 wired parallel to the other set of 3. Just divide in half you get a total load of .65 ohms, you had .5 but still close considering.

the third diagram looks to me to be the same as the first...a mirror image but the colors of the wires are reversed so no effect on the load.

The 4th diagram would not work right so I didn't bother solving it. You can't wire voice coils differently when connecting subs to the same channel of an amp. well phisically you could but the speaker(s) in parallel that had lower ohms would be getting more power then the ones in serires (or with higher ohms value). So some subs would be jumping out of thier baskets, while some would be not doing much. Add to that a lower output from cancellation. hope I explained that technically correct.

but overall great job. glad you have the patience, i would have to charge to do diagrams like that because it would take all day.

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Thx Master5.

Take a "closer" look at the 3rd diagram and I think you'll be suprised posted_image

You'll notice that the right (3) subs are rotated 180 degrees, as are the voice coils. That's why the colors are opposite, because it's positive to negative. Also look at the voice coil numbering and the A's and B's. posted_image

Basically take the 2nd diagram and turn the right-most 3 subs upside down on the paper.

That was my way of showing the (2) banks of 3 wired at 1.3 ohms, and then wired in Series. It still might not be correct, but it's worth another look.

I understand what you mean about number 4. I was worried about that. Oh well, it was still fun to try!

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

ahhh..ok now I see. Still has a problem as the left bank is wired differently then the right, then paralled together. Similar problem as with diagram 4...the bank with the lowest ohm value will get more power.

I will try to simplfy this by just using the schematics from DMX. Maybe you can work out a better diagram. Ok, they show 3 possible scenerios. 1 ohm,2 ohm and 4ohm. Now I will work something out assuming a 1ohm stable amp. If the amp is 2 ohm stable let me know and I will do another.

Use the sub diagram for the 2ohm wiring. Put a bank of 3 in parallel. That will give us a total load of .66 ohms. Now do the same for the right bank (also .66) series both those banks and you have a total ohms load of 1.2ohms...just about on the money.

There may be other configs. that can work as well but for now we can use this. I am hoping someone else can try it also.

Peace

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Actually the left and right banks are both wired the same on each side. They are just connected together in Series instead of Parallel. I'll post a pic so you can see what I did.

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Squirrel
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Ok lets see if this helps to clarify what I did in the diagram...

Step 1: Both Left and Right banks are wired identically into 1.3ohms
Step 2: The Right bank is flipped vertically (no change to the wiring)
Step 3: The Right bank is flipped horizontally (no change to the wiring)
Step 4: The numerical and alphabetical values are simple turned the right way so you can read them. All connections are wired identically on both banks, and both banks are wired together in Series.

Is this still incorrect now that I've shown that both banks are identical?

posted_image

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Squirrel
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If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

I think I did screw up the Series diagram. I'm working on another one now that should be right (or at least more readable)

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Squirrel
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If its too loud, then you're too old
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Ok, this one is MUCH EASIER to see...
posted_image

If it is correct then I'll repost the main pic with the 3 correct wiring methodoligies

Sorry for all teh pics, I know it's gotta be getting confusing for everyone!

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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Here's a modified version of the original number 2. I see where I screwed up on the original...

posted_image

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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The same steps apply to the remodified number 2 diagram as the original one though. Watch how the speakers and voice coils are oriented in the diagram!

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Squirrel
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Ok now I see it. And you are correct at 2.6ohms when both banks are in series. This would be fine for a 2ohm stable MONO amp but if bridged to a 2ohm STEREO amp, it would be a problem But this is good, Now we have diagrams for the six QuadVC's to run with either a one ohm stable mono, and a 2 ohm stable mono.

Just for kicks see if you can do a setup for a 2channel, 2 ohm stable amp. For optimal performance we want the total load to be 4ohms, or as close it is as possible without going under. Most novices have a little trouble understanding that when you "bridge" an ohm load, you must divide that in half to determine the power output and what the amp will actually be running at. (2 channel bridged is basically spliiting the load in parallel, so theoretically doubling power output. Basic ohms law.

I have to say this again, it makes me laugh...."SIX quadVC's" Thats 48 terminals to wire up 6 subs. Comon you gotta laugh.

Good luck

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I know exactly what you mean *laughing* In the past I've posted diagrams showing new users the difference in wiring (ohms) between a class D mono amp and a class A/B multi-channel (bridged) amp. It's helped a lot of people see what you are talking about.

I've been banging my head against the wall making these work! So they better be right finally!

I'll work on that diagram and see what I can come up with. I'll probably PM it to you when/if I get it finished. We've probably confused everyone enough already *laughing*

Skylark
Ok, here is the Accurate wiring diagrams for:
(3) 1ohm QVC's at 1.3ohms
(6) 1ohm QVC's at .65ohms
(6) 1ohm QVC's at 2.6ohms (2 different views)

posted_image

Skylark, feel free to PM me if you have any questions on what wires go where *laughing* I know these diagrams can all run together after a while posted_image

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

It looks like some kind of crazy diagrams for wiring traffic lights..LOL

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*laughing* That's not too far away from the truth. Especially since we have horizontal traffic lights like that in places down here (Central Florida)

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
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The diagrams are nice and appear to be on the money...still dizzy tracing the terminals. its like a vicious garden maze.

However, you listed the values wrong. These subs are wired @ 4ohms each and you list as 1 ohm each. I hope that was a typo or we have to start all over again.....shoot me now..lol

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skylark wrote:

they one ohm, im mad now because i ordered these subs over the phone and i said i wanted 2 ohm dvcs, but thats what i get for not double checking the order after they arrrived. i had these for 2 months now. And im not gonna waste money shipping these back because they so heavy and its not worth it when i believe i can still work with what i have. And they going in a tahoe if that helps.

Each voice coil is 1ohm. I based my numbers earlier off the ones given from the manual (I posted the picture excerpts earlier on page 3). Each QVC can be wired for a total ohm load of either 1 or 4. The numbers should be correct based on that.

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Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com

ok gimme a minute to look it over again

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Ok a misunderstanging...ahhhh take a breath..lol The voice coils are 1 ohm BUT we configured those coils to give us 4 ohm subs. So everything is good. I did not want to go thru this again and it's even worse for you.

I don't think with these value VC's in a group of 6 can ever be a 4 ohm load. But I would imagine it best to use a mono regardless, this setup can use some power for sure.

I racked my brain a little with the numbers and 4 is not the magic one with these variables. You can try if you want but I am done** laughing

but as long as close to but not under 2 ohm or 1ohm there are options using all 6, depending on the amps rating.

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