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speaker difference

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=86532
Printed Date: Decemberá05, 2022 at 8:20 AM


Topic: speaker difference

Posted By: will_22_82
Subject: speaker difference
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 1:45 PM

i posted month ago about my speakers. I have four 12" jbl 1224 each max power is 1600 watts. I have 2 hifonics brutus amps putting out a little over 1800 watts a piece. My question is I seen the hifonics Goliath 3200 series subwoofer max power 6400 watts. I didn't know if i should stick with my subs or go for the goliath. I deal a lot with spl, thats really what I'm going for. Which is better?? Anyone



Replies:

Posted By: arrow12
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 2:27 PM
What are the specs for each of those woofers?  That could come into play.  I personally would probably stay with 4 JBL's or the 1 Hifonics, but I need to see the specs.

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That's my opinion. Take it, leave it, or correct me.




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 3:25 PM

hifonics 3200-Series Quad Voice-Coil Features:

  • 3200-Watts RMS Power Handling
  • 6400-Watts Maxximum Power Handling
  • Quad 2-Ohm Voice-Coils (QVC/2+2+2+2 ┘)
  • For 1/2-Ohm, 1-Ohm, 2-Ohm, 4-Ohm, and 8-Ohm Applications
  • 18-3/4lb./300oz. Triple-Stack Magnet Assembly
  • 4-inch Bi-Flair Black Aluminum Voice-Coils
  • High-Strength Composite Silver & Fiber Glass Cone

jbl

╗ 12" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils
   ╗ Kevlar-impregnated paper cone with Hi-roll rubber surround
   ╗ Plus One cone design for more effective surface area
   ╗ power range: 50-400 RMS watts (200 watts per coil)
   ╗ 1600 watts peak power handling
   ╗ frequency response: 23-450 Hz
   ╗ sensitivity: 94 dB
   ╗ mounting depth: 6-13/16"
   ╗ sealed box volume: 1.00 cu. ft.
   ╗ ported box volume: 1.75 cu. ft.





Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 4:34 PM
if anyone can help it would be appreciated. I have someone wanting to buy my current system.




Posted By: coppellstereo
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 5:01 PM
can you get the specs for your current amps?
What kind of box are your woofers in? What kind of vehicle?
Are you just wanting to burp out big numbers or actually listen to this system?

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Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 6:12 PM
  • Brutus BXi 1606D
  • 1-Channel Mono-Block Operation
  • SUPER D-Class Ampllifier Topography
  • Ultra-Fi MOSFET Outputs
  • Illuminated Hifonics Logo
  • PWM MOSFET EXVP (Exponential Vari-Power Supply)
  • SPC Twin Turbo-Torroids with Simpatico Coil Design
  • Remote Bass Control
  • Balanced Line Inputs w/ Optional Hifonics MM-BLD-1
  • Gold RCA Line Ouputs - Permit Amplifier Daisy-Chaining
  • 4-Gauge Power Connectors
  • Fully Adjustable Accu Cross Crossovers
  • Inlude:
    • -24dB Subsonic Filter (Adjusts 15-50Hz)
    • Phase Shift Adjustments (0 to +180 Degrees)
    • 24dB Low-Pass Crossover (Adjusts 35 - 250 Hz)
    • Bass Boost: Variable Bass Equalization (+18dB @ 45Hz)

SPECIFICATIONS:

  • 550Wx1 RMS @ 4 ohm
  • 1100Wx1 RMS @ 2 ohm
  • 1600Wx1 RMS @ 1 ohm
  • S/N Ratio: >95dB
  • THD & Noise: <0.08
  • Input Impedance (Balanced/Un-Balanced): 20k ohm / 47k ohm \

wanting it for spl #'s

98 cutlass olds

going to be ported for the 15"





Posted By: coppellstereo
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 10:12 PM
you could power that single woofer nicely with those amps, but the 4 jbl woofers could be louder. Is that box ported?

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Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá02, 2006 at 10:36 PM
sounds to me your problem is not woofers its your power, if you going for competition use then I would up your power to match the RMS of you woofers before upgrading anything else.

You say you have 4 woofers that you only have enough power to really only power one of them to thier full potintial.

The biggest thing I have learned is to stay with the same setup and work on box design, power system I.E batteries, alts, wire. And then Start upgrading power and subs.

If your going for loud, going for #'s   You cant beat kicker and thats a proven fact.

75% of all top placing competitiors in USACi and DB drag were using Kicker Products.

Not trying to move where you are, or alter my first statement, but just letting you know what wins out there right now

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá03, 2006 at 12:37 AM
true. i only have 3600 watts amp.




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá03, 2006 at 2:26 AM
sorry, I thought I read only one amp, but now I see 2.

If you can run 4 amps, one per woofer then go for it!

Make sure you upgrade your charging system though or else you might not even be getting all the power out of the 2 amps you have now

I am sure each one of those amps will draw clse to 100 amps each.

I would go with the bggest alternator you can get, Which some companys make a 300 amp models ( High Output Alts, Irragi Alts, Powermaster.

Then go with 2 or 3 dry cell batteries, like Audioforce, Kinetik, POwermaster, or HO alts have batts too.


If you are serious about competing then you will have to spend the money to make the power, to get all the power from the amps.   Your looking at close to $1000 in upgrades for the charging system alone.




Other option, sell the 4 subs you have now, and purchase (4) 12 L7s    your at the right power level for that, and I could easily get a solid box design to get you into the 150's for most competition organizations

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: jonathancullen
Date Posted: Decemberá03, 2006 at 12:03 PM

hey jeff you should show us the pic of your box muahahahhaha!!!!!!! xD j/p

ahhh your poor little crx, so much abuse xD





Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá03, 2006 at 1:57 PM
I will say this, and that is all

(6) 10's in less then 5 cu ft, with (2) 6 inch aero ports....good luck finding the ports..they are not easy to find.

There is a little work with angle walls inside of the box, fiberglass to try and hold it together, which didnt go so well I still cracked it twice at finals

lots and lots of power, If I put one amp on this box, it would do horrible...but with 6 on it, it will get very loud


When building a comp box, espicially for a CRX there is a fine line on the box, the consideration comes to the following things

Having a box small enough to help hold the woofers together

Having enough power to still push the woofers to max in such a small box

having the woofers and ports arranged right so that the air flow efficently out of the box.



I wish there was a program or any formulas to help, but nothing works besides trial and error. I have made cahnges of less then 1/2 inch and made substancial gains.

All I can say is come find me at a show next year thoughout the US...I will show people my setup at shows, but I dont like to post pictures of it.

I will go out to the garage in the next few days and possibly take some pictures of old boxes, and kinda do a write up on them

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: jonathancullen
Date Posted: Decemberá03, 2006 at 3:34 PM
lol cool!




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá05, 2006 at 10:00 PM

well i am seriously considering going with the hifonics goliath 64oo watt quad coil

but between the 12 to the 15 does that size make a difference as far as spl #'s





Posted By: coppellstereo
Date Posted: Decemberá05, 2006 at 10:37 PM
of course size can change things. but going from fours 12s to one 15 ...

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Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá05, 2006 at 10:55 PM
I will agree, going from 4 12's each getting half power to going to one 15 with 1/3 power


I think you are going to see a big decrease.

You need to either find subs you can power, like I have suggested.   

Or buy new amplifiers to power what you have now to its potential.


Let me give you a comparison we did a little while back

Both in the proper enclosure for competiton the following woofers did the results with the same power

(2) Kicker L7's being burped with 3800 watts (yes over double the RMS and 800 over peak rating) it yeilded 152.1db

(2) DIgital Designs 9912E's powered with 3800 watts ( slightly over half of the power handling for 1 woofer let alone 2) it yeilded 146.8db

The Kickers less then $200 each
The DD's nearly $800 each

Now with 6600 on each woofer

The kickers can only take about 6600WRMS for a pair, it is alot of power and I was using 2006 10-L7's

Yeild 153.5DB

(2) 12's with 6600WRMS Digital designs 9512e's came to 150.6db
still barly over half the power handling of each woofer


You will not get louder, espically for competition use if you cannot power your equipment properly!


I have made suggestions to you, but you refuse to really consider what I have recomended, weather you go with the subs I suggested or not, I would highly reccomend you work with the subs you have and procede to get more power

By adding power you are going to have to upgrade you Alternator, and have multiple batteries, depending on what competiton organization you are considering they do have battery limits, so if you have one picked out and I can tell you what the rulings would be based on the class you would fall into


Please consider what I have posted, I have spent quite a few years now doing alot of research to get where I am today, Alot of info is private but if you have any specific Questions I can do my best to help!

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá05, 2006 at 11:53 PM

i have a kinetic 800 battery. 2 hifonics 1606d brutus amps. I am going to get more amps of course. but i figured that since my speakers put out the same watt all together ehich is 6400 watt compared to the goliath which is 6400 watts also. my amps will run the speaker i believe. but i was told it would be louder spl wise. guess i was told wrong.





Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá06, 2006 at 12:33 AM
4 amps on one kinetik 800 will do nothing

4 amps on a kinetik 2400 would not even make it

you seriously need to upgrade the charging system before you upgrade your amps!

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá06, 2006 at 2:11 PM
2 brutus hifonics putting out 1800 watts each. I did the math on it. My current setup the subs are getting over half of max




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: Decemberá06, 2006 at 2:43 PM
You did the math, but #'s mean nothing untill you measure true output.

AC voltage x AC current on the speaker leads is the only way to find out the true about of power you are actually getting.

I use a fluke DMM and Fluke Clamp meter to make my measurments

I use the note I burp my car at, and hold it for 5 seconds checking where both current and voltage rest at



-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: will_22_82
Date Posted: Decemberá07, 2006 at 11:58 AM
i haven't done that. just measured output coming off the amps. anyone know if these subs could hold 2 of my amps per sub or would they pop em.





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