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2001 Monte Carlo SS Amp/Subs

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=87456
Printed Date: March 28, 2024 at 2:02 PM


Topic: 2001 Monte Carlo SS Amp/Subs

Posted By: wretchedunloved
Subject: 2001 Monte Carlo SS Amp/Subs
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 2:47 AM

Well, I have a 2001 Monte Carlo SS with the premium sound package.  It sounds pretty decent, but my problem was clipping if I either a) turned up the bass on the EQ too high, b) turned up the volume too high, or c) did both.  I figured the easiest way to resolve my issue, the one where I bring my stock speaker to within an inch of their life attempting to rip the bass from them, was to go ahead and get subs and an amp.  I looked for a while and ended up getting a Sony XM-2002GTR and a pair of Sony XS-L123P5's ( 12" ).

I know, I know... "Why, oh why!?  Friends don't let friends buy Sony."  I never knew of any issues with Sony until I started reading this site (about four hours ago) and the reviews I read for the amp/speakers were pretty decent.  Now, rather than pay for someone to install this... I figure it shouldn't be much of an issue to do it myself.  So I've tried to answer the questions I had by myself via reading these forums, but I haven't quite found the answers I was hunting for.  So here it goes.

1) When I actually mount my sub box in my trunk, which way should I face the subs?  All systems I have seen first hand, the speakers face towards the rear of the car, but I read a couple things, and had a friend tell me that it sounds better if you have the subs face the passenger compartment.  What are the sound quality differences between the two ways?  Obviously it looks nicer facing the rear, but I'm more after the sound while driving.

2) Keeping the box in one spot.  What's the best way to do this?  It's going to be mounted in my trunk, most definately.  Should I use velcro straps?  Or try to bolt it in some way?  I'm trying to avoid hacking at my car as much as possible, but safety is important.

3) When I mount the speakers inside the box, should I glue/caulk them to make sure it's air-tight?  Or will they be fine just screwed down well?

4) I am using the factory head unit, and won't be upgrading right now.  As such, I was going to tap into one of the speakers in the rear deck and run that to my amp, does it matter which speaker I use for this?

5) I am trying to avoid having to disassemble my dash to get to my stereo, since I don't have preamp outputs anyway, which leaves me wondering how to do my remote turn on for the amp.  I *believe* that my cars current amp is mounted to the top of the inside of my trunk, there is an item that appears to be an amp anyway.  Could I tap into the remote turn on there?  Or will I *have* to run a new one from my head unit?

6) Assuming I can tap into the rear speakers for my amp input, and also assuming I can tap into the amp in my trunk for the remote turn on, can I forgo an actual wiring kit?  It seems that a short piece of 20ish gauge wire would suffice for the remote turn on, and a couple pieces of 12-14g wire would be fine for tapping into my speakers.  This means I would just need to get a piece 4g (?) wire to run to my battery, with a fuse?  Or is there something else in the kits I would need?

7) Would I be able to mount my amplifier to my speaker box in some way?  Or will I need to mount it elsewhere?  As I said, I'd rather not drill/cut/molest my car if at all possible, but I want the job done right, I don't like to take shortcuts that degrade the final product, so I will do whatever I need to so it gets done correctly.

 

I'm sorry about all these questions, and I'm sure some of them are beyond obvious for all of you, but I really don't want to hurt my car, or my new equipment, so I'm trying to make sure I won't break anything from being an r-tard.  I am mechanically/electrically inclined, and I know the basics, but the intricacies of a well-done amplifier installation are somewhat beyond me.

Any and all replies/help/tips are appreciated!

Thanks in advance!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2



Replies:

Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 3:12 AM

I couldn't find the edit button for some reason... Just wanted to tack on one more question...

8) Do I want to wire my subs in parallel or in series?  My amp has a rating for 2ohm impedence, which I would assume is saying it is stable at 2ohm's, so it seems I would want them in parallel.  Or would it be better/safer to run them in series for an 8ohm impedence?



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 10:45 AM
1) I would face the subs to the rear of the trunk, I have messed with these cars and this will likely give you the best sounding results

2) velcro strips are a very good option, its less invasive then bolting or screwing boxes into the body of the car

3) If you carpet your enclosure thats typically enough of a buffer to make the sub air tight

4)Your best bet is to use an adustable Line OUt converter (LOC) as I believe this car is factory amped, and you will have to tap the bass output for the speakers not the tweeter, and it is typically best to use the 2 rear speakers, stronger signal, less chance of total failure, rear speakers are easier to get to and tap into

5)For a remote turn on the best and easiest sorce is the ciggerette lighter, tap into the wire behind the ciggerette lighter as this is a switched source, and the amp will not pull more then a few Mili-amps of current.

6)Power, Ground, and a fuse holder is basically all you are buying in a kit, and the price is typically about the same as if you were to buy all pieces individual, unless your going to buy a higher quality wire. You will need RCA's to go from the (LOC) though

7) I dont know if velcro would hold the amp to the box, but you can screw the amp to the back side of the box to keep it secure

8) If your amp is rated for a 2 ohm load, and you can achieve a 2 ohm load then go for it.    At 8 ohm that amp will not produce much power at all. You didnt specify what impedance your subs are so really cant tell you how to wire them, but there are parrallel/series calculators on the left hand toobar


wow, alot of questions hope this does it for ya!

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 12:56 PM

Thanks for the reply!  My speaks are 4ohm, which from what I understand means I get either 2 or 8ohm, I think, as a result.   I have never heard of a line out converter, I would need to use one of those rather than just splicing into one of the speakers under my rear deck?

I'm getting the gear on the 22nd, so I have a little while to figure out exactly how I want to set everything up.

Thanks again!!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 2:58 PM
You need to insure that that the speakers are not dual voice coil, and if they are you get dual 2 ohm subs, to get a final load of 2 ohm

Line out converters can be found at any shop, or walmart in the car audio section...this would be a much better choice then just spliceing the rear wires, and that is even if the amp has a high pass input.



-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 10:20 PM

Here are the specs for the gear I'm getting:

Amp-

»  2-channel car amplifier
»  200 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms (250 watts RMS x 2 at 2 ohms)
»  500 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
»  low-pass crossover (50-300 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
»  variable bass boost (0-10 dB at 40 Hz)
»  MOSFET outputs and power supply
»  Tri-way capable (Tri-Way Crossover required)
»  CEA-2006 compliant
»  speaker-level inputs with signal sensing for automatic turn-on
»  preamp inputs and outputs
»  fuse rating: 40A x 2

Sub (x2):

»  12" 4-ohm subwoofer
»  five-sided polypropylene cone with foamed rubber surround
»  power range: 90-380 watts RMS (1,300 watts peak power)
»  frequency response: 18-2,000 Hz
»  sensitivity: 89 dB
»  top-mount depth: 5-5/16"
»  sealed box volume: 1.15 cubic feet
»  ported box volume: 0.82 cubic feet

The subs are indeed single voice coil, not dual.

I hadn't noticed that one part on the amp specs though... "speaker-level inputs with signal sensing for automatic turn-on" which leads me to a few more questions, with numbering for convenience!

1) Does that mean that I won't need a remote turn on wire for the amp since I am not hooking it to an HU pre-amp output?

2) If I buy a LOC, will I need a remote turn on wire, assuming the above answer is a 'yes' or will I still be running it through the speaker-level inputs on the amp?

3) Since the amp is 2-channel with equal output on both channels, I should just run each speaker to the amp individually, right?  Or will I still need to wire them in series/parallel to bring it to 2 ohms?

Sorry about all the dumb questions, thanks for all the help so far!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 10:55 PM
I dont see in the specs that the amp is even 2 ohm stable.   therefore you will have to run one sub per channell

if it has the speaker sense I guess try it and see how it works, I havent used sony products for a long time and dont intend to either, so I dont know how well it works

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 11:02 PM

From Crutchfield:

Performance

RMS Power Output (Watts x Channels) 200 x 2
Frequency Response 20-20k Hz
THD at Rated RMS Power 0.1%
Signal to Noise Ratio N/A
Input Voltage 14.4v
Peak Power Output (Watts x Channels) 400 x 2
Power at 2 Ohms (Watts x Channels) 250 x 2
Bridged Power (Watts x Channels) 500 x 1
Minimum Impedance Bridged 4
Minimum Impedance Unbridged 2

Features

Amplifier Class AB 
Tri-Way Capable Yes
Low-Pass Crossover Frequency 50-300 Hz
Low-Pass Slope (dB/octave) 12 dB
High-Pass Crossover Frequency N/A
High-Pass Slope (dB/octave) N/A
Bass Boost 0-10 dB
Bass Boost Frequency 40 Hz
Fan Cooled No 
Fuse Rating 40 x 2
Speaker Level Inputs Yes
Preamp Outputs 1 pair

Says it's stable at 2 ohms, but not in bridged mode... Meaning I can't really take advantage of it being 2 ohm stable, right?  I should just run each speaker directly to a channel for 4 ohms each?



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 11:07 PM
yep, your right...it wont take a 2 ohm bridged load

-------------
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 19, 2006 at 11:19 PM

I think I know most everything I need to install my first amp and subs, just about.  I just want to make sure I have everything figured out.  I'm just going to make a quick outline of my plan for installing this, if you could just give me a thumbs up or down, that would be great!

1) Run a 4g cable from my battery to my trunk, routed under the trim, with an 80amp fuse near the battery.

2) Splice into the rear deck speakers, connecting the left and right to the input on my amp. (( Will I need to hook the individual grounds together?  Or will a common ground/single speaker ground work for input to the amp? ))

3) Velcro my box down and wire each speaker to it's own channel.

4) Somehow mount my amp, connecting a heavy wire to the frame as the power ground.

5) Enjoy the music?

Seems... Really easy, for some reason.  A lot easier than I thought it was going to be... Am I missing something important?

Thanks so much for the responses ^^



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: mando2155
Date Posted: December 20, 2006 at 12:23 AM
i wouldnt combine your negative speaker terminals for the sony amps input because it will combine them at the speaker as well.  Hope it works out well for ya.




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 20, 2006 at 2:19 AM

I was thinkin' about that, how should I go about wiring from the speakers to the amp so I don't cause the speakers to short?



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: mando2155
Date Posted: December 20, 2006 at 3:06 PM

I think the sony amp comes with a 4 pin plug that plugs in to the high level input on the amp.   

white -  left speaker (+)

WHITE/ black-   left speaker(-)

gray-  right speaker(+)

gray/black-  right speaker(-)

It should say all this stuff in the manual its pretty straight forward,  just make sure you know whats (+) and whats (-) for both speakers.





Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 20, 2006 at 6:18 PM
Ahh, thank you!  I'm sure waiting until I get the amp and speaker manuals would answer some of my questions, but I like knowing more!  I'm going to try and run the power cable now, since it will probably be the most difficult part... Especially since there is *no* room under the trim along the bottom edge of the inside of my car to run it, gonna have to get creative...

-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 21, 2006 at 3:42 AM

Anyone have a super secret install location for an amplifier?  I took a good, long look at my trunk, plenty of room for the box, which I am getting tomorrow with the rest of my gear.  But, nowhere to install the amp.  I can't hang it to the top of the trunk, due to the factory amp and deck speakers, the wheel well's are shaped oddly, so it would be really tricky to mount it on the sides of my trunk.  And the floor of my trunk has a full-sized tire recessed into it, with a false bottom of sorts.  I don't really want to mount my amp there, anyone have an idea?

I am going to see how much clearance there is around my box once I slide it in there, and I might end up mounting the amp to the back of the box, against my rear seats, but I'm not sure how it will be for ventilation, don't want it overheating.  My rear seats can fold flat, and I never... Ever... Have people in my back seat, so I could keep the seats down most of the time.  Would that hurt my sound at all?  Having the back of the box pointing directly into the passenger compartment, that is.  Or, could I face my subs straight up and mount my amp against the "bottom" of my box?

Any ideas would be awesome... And if you know of a good way to run a 4awg power wire without using the floor trim, that would be awesome as well, since it would take some magical abilities to get that wire under the trim, there is just *no* space whatsoever for it.

Thanks!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 12:05 AM
Well you could get the PAC Trunk LOC...it has a remote lead in coming off of it making one less run of wire for you and easier installation




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 12:32 AM

I'm going to give my amps speaker-level inputs a chance.  It supposedly will stay on as long as there is voltage on the speakers, and since I am using speaker-level inputs, that should be any time the HU is on... Unless I am mistaken.  If the sound quality isn't what I want, or if the amp decides to cut off randomly, I will probably install a trunk LOC.

Would I be able to mount my box facing upwards?  That way I could mount my amp to my box, which would make installation a *lot* easier since the roof of my trunk is taken up by the speakers and factory amp, and the sides of my trunk don't have a flat enough space to mount it.  The floor is a recessed spare-tire-holder, so I can't mount to that.  Would there be a problem with damaging my speakers, or poor bass quality if I mount them pointing upwards?  Or downwards... Or facing the passenger compartment... Any of those would work.  Or I could face them normally and mount the amp to the back, but I dunno how much my amp would appreciate being wedged against my back seat.

I hope I can figure out a way to run the power to my amp, getting all my gear in a few hours!  Should be fun times.



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 1:08 AM

Hm... Just did the calculations, and I'd be 1.5% over the reccomended numbers for upwards/downwards mounting, so I gotta face them either towards the passenger compartment or the trunk.  So I suppose the question is...

Should I...

A) Mount the subs facing the rear of the car and mount the amplifier behind them, pushed against my rear seats, or

B) Mount the subs facing the front of the car, my amp mounted to the back of the box in more open air, or

C) Mount the subs facing the rear of the car, and make some kind of bracket to mount the amplifier somewhere else.

Thanks again for all the help!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 1:17 AM
Don't face the subs toward the cabin...won't sound as good.




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 1:23 AM

Just read that, heh.  Was about to reply again, but I decided three replies in a row would make me seem... Desperate, or some such.  I think I have everything figured out now for tomorrow, minus where I'm putting the bloody power cable in my car.  Think I'm just gonna jack up my car and run it under it.  I figure a hole in the trunk to get it there is easier than a hole in the firewall, never seen such a crowded firewall in my life, I'd be terrified to drill into it.  And I have to run it along the right side of my car, because the battery is all the way at the front of the hood on the right, and my power cable won't make it across the entire engine bay, then to the trunk, unless I go ghetto and make it look like crap running it across my manifold or something equally stupid.  I won't be doing that.

Other than the power wire, the only thing I'm not sure about is where to mount my amp.  Would there be much of a problem mounting it on the back of my box?  It'll be pushed against my rear seats, but then again... I can keep them folded down 99.9% of the time.  I've had one person in my back seat in the last 6 months.  Would there be any obviously foreseeable issues mounting my amp on the back of my box against my rear seats?

Thanks thanks!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 6:04 PM
Just run the power wire under the carpet




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 22, 2006 at 8:19 PM

Yep, I managed to find a wiring harness in the firewall.  No way I could get it through there, but I drilled a hole and I have it run now.  Of course, Best Buy said I will now get my equip the 26th, thereas they said no later than the 22nd in their store.  *Sigh* Bloody BB...



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 23, 2006 at 5:10 AM
Alright, I'm looking at the manual online for the amp, and I was curious about something.  It shows to catch the wires for the high-level inputs after the HU, but it doesn't take into account a factory amp.  Should I hook into the wiring pre-amp/post-HU or post-amp/post-HU?  The factory amp is right next to the speakers, so either way isn't too bad, but it would be a bit of a challenge to figure out which wires to catch going into the amp, there's quite a few.

-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 27, 2006 at 6:09 PM

Well, my subs got lost in transit, then finally found, then they were sold to someone else on the shelf within 3 hours of letting me know they came in.  A few phone calls to the store manager later, I got my subs, box and amp.  I hooked it all up this afternoon, and it certainly pounds, but my gains at the moment are set really, really low.  I'm terrified of blowing my subs.  This is the lead in to my question, which now will follow.

Car: 2001 Monte Carlo SS, stock H/U and internal speakers.  It has premium sound, which includes a small amp for the four inside speakers.

Equipment: Sony XM-2002GTR, Sony XS-L123P5's ( 12"  x 2 )

Now, I put in a CD and played a song with steady, heavy bass while adjusting my gain.  My gain is in the form of a small knob with voltage numbers, I started out at 6v, it is now at 4v, and if I turn it up more, the bass obviously gets louder, but I just get scared that I could be clipping the amp, not knowing.  I really, really don't wanna blow my speakers, so I'm leaving it at 4, which does pound rather hard, until I get some input on this.  My amplifer is connected to the H/U via the high-level inputs, connected into the rear deck speakers, AFTER the stock amplifier.  The controls on the amp at my disposal are -

Level: 6, 5.5, 4, 2, .5, .3, but I can set them anywhere between those numbers also, the knob turns smoothly - Currently set at 4.

Low Boost ( 40Hz): 0 to 10dB, smooth knob as well - Currently set at 1.

Filter: 50, 60, 110, 170, 260, 300 - Currently set at 170 (Factory setting)

Those are the only three settings I can mess with, I have the EQ on my H/U leveled, I used to have the bass turned up on it, but I leveled that out.

So, my actual questions, numbered for convenience!

1) The RMS going to each speaker is 200, the max RMS for each speaker is 350, how much danger do I have from an inaudible clipping of the signal to blow my speakers?

2) If I keep turning my gain up, will my speakers simply blow out after a few seconds?  Or will I have a chance to go "Wow, that sounds horrible, I better turn it back down" I haven't turned it past 4 yet for more than 3 seconds, just to hear one note that kind of vibrated my rib cage.

3) Will my bass boost contribute to clipping?  I fear clipping ;-;  How high can I turn it, or should I leave it alone?

4) Is my LPF set alright?  I haven't really messed with it.  My rear deck speakers can pound pretty hard, so they put out some decent midbass, but they obviously don't have the deep thump that I was after.

5) I also noticed a kind of buzzing noise, only in some songs though, I believe it's some part of my car vibrating, as it only occurs on bass, and it sounds very simlar to my license plate rattling (Which I will fix soon ><) Should I be concerned with this noise?  It's only noticible when the trunk is open and you're near the subs, it goes away completely when listening normally.

I know, so many noob questions, I'm just scared of breaking my very first sub and amp.  Any help, advice or tips would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

-Travis



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 27, 2006 at 6:12 PM

The amp and sub links are hyperlinks to their crutchfield listings, so you don't have to waste your time hunting the specs.  Forgot to mention that ><  Off to road test my subs, will check for responses when I come back.

Thanks again!



-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2




Posted By: mando2155
Date Posted: December 27, 2006 at 10:39 PM
just my opinion but bass boost sucks.  I try not to use it .  I want all of my bass to play smoothly and evenly,  the bass boost is centered around one particular frequencey and it boosts the amps output at that frequency, so you wind up with a sudden spike instead of an even response.  as far as setting the lowpass filter in my opinion itll depend on what kind of music you listen to.  if its rap or bass lines similair to that i usually go 80hz or less, for rock  Im closer to 100hz or so but never at 170.  that would be the first thing i change.  as far as setting you gains im sure theres a thread on this forum that covers that in great detail.




Posted By: wretchedunloved
Date Posted: December 27, 2006 at 11:08 PM
Aye, there is, but my problem I guess it's just a fear of clipping the signal and not noticing.  I mean, I've never heard clipping, and I have no way to turn off my interior speakers, so I'm getting a lot of sound while just trying to test my subs.  And I'm just afraid of throwing my amp into clipping and popping my subs.  Thanks for the info though, I turned the LPF down to 110, I listen to a lot of music, rap, metal and trance mostly, but that's still quite a variation as far as bass is concerned.

-------------
2001 Monte Carlo SS
Sony XM-2002GTR
Sony XS-L123P5 x 2





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