x over?

I am wanting to make a simple first order (6db) 2-way crossover. I would like to make the x-over freq. at about 2500Hz so speaker selection will be easy. I am not going to use a piece of board. I am going to crimp gold-plated blade connectors directly to the + input leads of the capacitors and inductors and likewise for the outputs. I want a 2Ohm draw on the amp using 4Ohm drivers. I want about a 200wrms handling capacity, 100wrms for each high and low pass. My Q's are;

1. Would I select inductors and capacitors for 4Ohms (drivers) or 2Ohms (draw on amp)?

2. I guess I will be using Dayton's metallized polypropylene capacitors -decent prices-, what gauge of which kind of inductor should I use?

I have Part-Express's x-over value chart for 2 and 4Ohm. Any help is appreciated.

I recommend that you use some type of a board for stability.  And solder.  I would arrange the crossover components in a way that fits the space I have to put them in, drill holes through the mounting board and zip tie the components securely into position.  Then, use small lengths of primary 16 ga. wire to connect components, using solder for the connections.

If you have two coils in a crossover network, arrange them so that they are at 90 degrees.  The mounting board will stabilize their positions in regard to each other's.

Here is a depiction of 3 coils, each 90 degrees from the other two:

18 or 20 ga. air coils will be superior to what you would get in most commercial component crossovers.

I thought that since the 4Ohm tweeter and 4Ohm woofer are wired in parallel, through the x-over, it would load the amp at 2Ohms... That's what I was unsure about. So for a 2Ohm system, I should use 2Ohm drivers? I want to use a 2Ch amp at 2Ohms stereo as to get out the most power.

I have read that by using a board and by using wires and solder to connect components, sound quality is compromised. Thats why I was going to crimp the components directly to each other. But since I'm not doing and all-out high powered install this shouln't be worried about, right?

jmelton86 wrote:

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I thought that since the 4Ohm tweeter and 4Ohm woofer are wired in parallel, through the x-over, it would load the amp at 2Ohms... That's what I was unsure about. So for a 2Ohm system, I should use 2Ohm drivers? I want to use a 2Ch amp at 2Ohms stereo as to get out the most power.

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No, if a crossover is doing its job correctly the net average impedance load on the amplifier is the same as one speaker.  No, you should not use 2-ohm speakers (which you could not find anyway.)  Use 4-ohm speakers.

jmelton86 wrote:

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I have read that by using a board and by using wires and solder to connect components, sound quality is compromised. Thats why I was going to crimp the components directly to each other. But since I'm not doing and all-out high powered install this shouln't be worried about, right?

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Whoever told you that (or whatever you read) is wrong.  You should never just crimp connections in car audio if you can solder.  And it is never a good idea to have components like crossover parts just hanging from wires or bouncing around.  Use a board and solder your components together, no matter how "high powered" the system might be.

Isn't solder inferior to two scuffed metal surfaces being securely held in place? I know solder is not an acceptable conductor, so why is it so highly regarded? Solder, to me, is more of a corrosion preventative. It simply covers the high-corrosion areas such as thin wires that are crimped or twisted together. Even silver solder isn't of audiophile quality to me - it usually only contains 4% silver content anyway!

DYohn, I agree to not have the crossover components bouncing around in the box. It is actually better to have the crossovers far from the speakers, closer to the amps I guess.

Stevdart, I agree that most-all commecially produced crossovers are crap.. Most of the time speakers suffer from inadequate crossover components and design. This is one of the most crucial parts of designing a SQ system.

Anyways let's get back to the topic. Alright say I was designing a 3way 1st-order(6db) x-over with points at about 32Hz and 3200Hz(Strong midrange!). The Q is; I would use the same values of caps and ind. for the midrange as I did for the high and low-range, correct? Also, which would I place first the cap or inductor? I figure the ind. b/c it can handle about 75wrms more, which would place less heat on the cap

Here is one good way to start learning about passive crossover design:  https://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

I wrote:  Isn't solder inferior to two scuffed metal surfaces being securely held in place?

Stevdart wrote: No, not quite.  It IS what holds the surfaces in place.

Um, okay... So soldering is inferior to scuffing-up two metal surfaces then securing them together.

I wrote: I know solder is not an acceptable conductor

Stevdart wrote: Solder is the connector of choice... Crimp, then solder. Or in the case of wiring crossover components...twist, then solder.

Um, okay... So soldering is inferior to scuffing-up two metal surfaces then securing them together. -Solder is not a connector.  I said: It simply covers the high-corrosion areas such as thin wires that are crimped or twisted together.

I said: Stevdart, I agree that most-all commecially produced crossovers are crap.. Most of the time speakers suffer from inadequate crossover components and design. This is one of the most crucial parts of designing a SQ system.

Sorry, I got a little copy-and-paste happy! Thanx for the link, will read more into it as time will allow...

DYohn wrote; ...in terms of quality of the electrical connection.  Period.  It has nothing to do with the audio signal quality...

Electrical connection, audio signal. Nothing to do with each other, eh? A quality audio signal requires a quality connection. Period. Solder is not as good a conductor as bare metal to metal. Solder in between bare metal to metal is not as good conductor as without it. That's all I say!

DYohn wrote; How are PCBs assembled?

My answer; In mass quantities, along with most commercial electronics. Build quality, to them, is not as important as getting it out of the door onto the shelf. This doesn't defend what you are saying in any way! You basically just wrote, 'Yeah, i'm not making any sense!' I'm by all means not trying to offend anyone. As I wrote before; solder is not an acceptable conductor, why is it so highly regarded? I mean yeah, it might help get a 'perfect' signal through the 'joint', but is by far, once again, by far, nothing compared to a simple tight connection. But wait, jmelton86, solder helps create a secure connection! Wrong! Solder is merely a corrosion preventative. -contrary to all belief!- It simply covers the high-corrosion areas such as thin wires that are crimped or twisted together to prevent oxidation which leads to corrosion which leads to - a bad connection.

My final thought: Solder is neither a conductor or an 'epoxy', or 'weld', of any kind. It is simply a wannabe of the two.

Whoa there, buddy! I am merely a novice giving my opinion; -usually that works!-

Haemphyst wrote; I'll give you that you woldn't ever use a length of solder as a speaker wire, or indeed even as a low level signal carrier... -this, amongst all the ramblings, is all I was trying to say. So thank you for summing it up for me!

My final thought: Solder is neither a(n) audiophile-grade conductor or an 'epoxy', or 'weld', of any kind. It is simply a wannabe of the two.

I do agree that it's a must in heavily vibrated(ha ha, he said vibrated) environments, cars...

Now, about me bragging. I didn't even list my 'talkers'. The $500 I spent (yes, I was rounding up), included all speakers (23 drivers), wiring, box materials, connectors... everything! That is something I can brag about b/c most people paid 4 times that for Alpine clarity! Don't you think that for under 500, a numb spine and ringing(cause it's loud, not distorted) ears is enough to brag about?

And the fact that you are a novice makes me wonder why you hold tight to such wrong-headed opinions.  Your statements appear ignorant lacking real-world experience.  You appear to have read something that you liked the sound of and now you defend it as truth.  You are wrong.  Go get some education and experience and learn about electronics and electricity before you come here trying to sound like an expert.  You are not.

Oh, and a "numb spine and ringing ears" is more a sign of stupidity and failure to understand the effects of high dbSPL and distortion on the human body than it is anything an "audiophile" would create.

DUDE(jmelton), you should back down now, because you are clearly in over your head. Sit back and LEARN, because that is why we are all here!!