Printer Friendly Forum Posts - 3 batteries and ho alt, necessary?

Hi, my name is Michael and I am currently in the process of planning my next car audio system. I currently don’t have a car and I am going over to Europe for 3 months to visit relatives / work for money to purchase my next car.

Basically I need some advice on the power I am going to need to run my new system when I finally get it installed. I will try to be as descriptive as possible.

First off here is a list of what I have.

2 x MTX T9512-44 Subwoofers (Dual Voice Coils, 12”, 1000 watts RMS each)
https://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/thunder9500.cfm

2 x MTX TA81001 Monoblock Amps (1000W Each at 2Ohms)
https://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/amplifiers/thunder81001.cfm

1 x Clarion APX640.4 – 4 channel Amp (4 x 80 RMS watts)

4 x Clarion SRX1384 – 5 ¼” Speakers

2 x Stinger SC201SC 1-Farad Power Caps

1 x Optima Yellow Top Battery – D34/78

1 x Kicker 0 Gauge wiring kit (300 amp fuse)

I should note that I would like enough power to have the option of upgrading those speakers and that 4-channel amp to something with a little more kick.

I have also heard about the big 3 for rewiring the 3 grounds under the hood of the car and will be doing that. 4 gauge wiring good for that though?

Now MTX keeps telling me that to run that set up I will probably need 2 extra batteries and a High Output Alternator.

I have no problem buying any of that, IF I need it. The problem is I don’t know what I need. Also if I need extra batteries how to set them up…

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Just upgrade your car battery and add a second battery yellow cap optima. you need a battery isolator hook your amps up to the second battery. Just because your amps are 1000 wats dose not mean you are pumping 1000watts continuiously. You don't need 2 caps just 1 I would hook this one to the amp for the subs.

Don't use any caps. As for the Big3; use 0g, or whatever the largest you're using in the system. You're gonna need a HO alt sooner or later. Only get a 2nd battery, isolated, if you plan on listening to the system with the car off for long periods of time.

Other than that it all looks fine to me.

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2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

Thanks for the quick responses guys. Going with what you guys said Im going to get a second battery and an isolator...now comes the other question lol...what is a battery isolator?

stinger sells them you can also go on ebay and find them. A batt isolator allows your second battery to be seperated from your car battery. ie. if you are at a park or just sitting any where playing your sounds, with the key in the ac position you will not effect your main car battery your sound will pull from the second battery. The isolator acts as a relay when the car is started you will here the isolator open this happens because the altenator has to charge the second battery. i have this same setup in my 1997 Chevy Tahoe. Before hooking this setup I had a second battery hooked up but I would go through altenators now I have no problems. in the summer I can rum the AC pump my music and I have day time running lights and my volt meter dose not move. The cap also helped me becasue songs with heavy bass drop whould not make my lights dim. Some people use the caps for looks and some because it really works. I will send you some pics of my setup.

Thanks again for the quick response --- I will be looking into getting that Isolator ASAP. Pics would be sweet if you could send them, Thanks.

Forget the isolator AND the caps... LONG have we all preached the evils, especially, of caps, but here's a thread regarding isolators.

I could spend a few hours, at least, digging threads up telling you why NOT to use the cap, but I won't, as it seems bigjul has you convinced you need one. Trust me, you DON'T! Suffice to say, if your electrical system is up to par, you won't need one, and if it's not, you're only hiding the still hemorrhaging bullet wound with a band-aid.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Thanks for that link, it was helpful but i'm still thinking that I might use the isolator. Im kind of 50/50 on it now. But say I did get an isolator would this one be sufficient for the system meantioned above. Also I would like to note that when reading that thread on the isolators I saw how it was meantioned to do the setup without the isolators you would need identical batteries...since my yellow top optima is only 1 year old I dont want to buy 2 more when I only need one. So does that not also mean I would have to have the isolator?

Anyways here is the stinger one I was looking at...the stats and pic I got from ebay so Im not 100% sure the stats are right.

Stinger 200 Amp Battery Relay<"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" >

<"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" >Brand New - Part # SR200 - Retails For 65.20

Ideal For Battery Isolation

High Current Relays Are The Most Reliable And Efficient Way To Add Secondary Batteries To Your System

Compatible With All Types Of Alternators And Charging Systems

Water Resistant Black Phenolic Plastic

100,000 Mechanical Cycle Life

Any more help would be appriciated. Thanks for the above posts everyone.

if you get two brand new batteries at the same time you will NOT need an isolator.

Those amps are gonna pull some serious current if you are blasting your music. A HO Alt should be on order. Ditch those caps and use that money towards a new alt.

Listen to haemphyst and aznboi3644. It would be in your (cars) best interest.

Read the link I gave you above on the Big3 Upgrade and apply it. Read haemphyst's link and apply, also.

Have fun!

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2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

Here is a guy with an '03 H3 hummer who just fried his alternator because it was strained too much. HO Alt is a must with big amps

I am already planning on buying a HO alternator --- Im going to get it custom made through a dealer here - Also I will be doing the Big 3 upgrade as well. Now since I already have the two caps why would I ditch them? Do they not help the system? Im still getting another battery and the HO alternator...since I have them should I use them? Or if not could you explain why not? Its not like im going to go out and buy them...I already own them lol.

Now back to the question about that paritcular Isolator...since I really really dont want to buy two new batteries since I have one, my batteries wont be identical. Reading that artical that he linked clearly stated that the two batteries must be identical and within about 6 months of each other - correct me if im wrong please. So since my batteries will be 1 year apart I will need that isolater will I not? If so is that isolator sufficient?

P.S. Im not trying to bash what you all are saying but Im trying to get all sides to it, so when I make my final decision I know 100% that I made the right one.

Thanks again for all the responses.

OK...

1. If you HAVE the caps, generally they don't hurt. Use them, but know they aren't doing what you think they are. There are opposing schools of thought here, but they CAN'T hurt, as I have seen suggested. Just know that they (99+% of the time) DON'T HELP!

2. You are already going to purchase a new battery for the back. This is out of the equation. You are CONSIDERING buying an isolator/solenoid, right? How much is the solenoid going to cost, and I'd like you to figure in all the terminals for the 1/0 cable (3 of them) and your time to install them, let's just say 1 hour if you solder (as I KNOW you were planning on doing... posted_image

)

Solenoid 40.00 (probably more, though)
Terminals 12.00 (around that - retail price)
Labor 20.00 per hour (see below)

(That twenty bucks? That's on the VERY low side, my labor is as much as 75 per hour, when working. If I am working on my stereo, I CAN'T be working on something else, and making as much as that, so THAT is how I figure my labor cost...)

$72.00 (up to $127.00) by my math (give or take). How much will buying a second identical battery cost? $80.00? Even an Optima Red Top (which I recommend, ABSOLUTELY NOT the Yellow Top!!!) will only be $100.00, if you shop around. So, you're looking at an additional outlay of 8 to 28 dollars, OR... I just saved you between 27 and 47 dollars. You're welcome.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Getting the isolator is not going to hurt anything but I would go with two yellow cap optimas. The battery I have for my sounds is about 3yrs old and my car battery is about 1yr old. I have no problems and my system thumps. Doing any of the things people has stated are all good. you can sell the caps on ebay but for me my cap helps my lights stop dimming when I have heavy bass drops.

haemphyst thanks for that info - I am now considering your other alternative lol. But I now have to ask why NOT the Yellow Top? Whats wrong with the Yellow Top ones from reading their site it looks like they recommend their Yellow ones for car audio instead of the red ones? So are you recommending I get rid of my Yellow Top Battery and instead purchase two Red top batteries? One for under my hood and one for the trunk? Or would you recommend the batteries made by Kinetic - I have heard very good things about them. Either battery I decide upon I would then connect them both to my custom made HO Alternator like that post that I was refered to previously. Am I correct so far? That way I dont need to purchase an isolator / solenoid.

I made this very bad sketch of how I envision this two battery set up --- All wiring shown would be 0 gauge wiring.

(Please forgive the sizes of the batteries to the car and alternator. I am not an artist!)

Also all the wiring for the Big 3 upgrade would be 0 Gauge as well am I correct?

Lastly any idea of how many amps my custom alternator should be putting out? Thanks.

Well thats alot of white space that I wasnt expecting...opps. Well then hopefully this link will work...I dont want to run into that problem again...waste of space.

Here is a link: https://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i320/twobig86/DiagramforBatts.jpg

Red top vs. Yellow top...

Here's why...

And here's why...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Thanks again for all the advice Haemphyst - I have been away on a white water rafting trip so thats why I havnt checked in over the weekend...btw if you like outdoor stuff and adreneline rushs whitewater rafting is for you lol.

Anyways I have given in and will be purchasing two red top batteries when I set my system up. I thank you for all your advice as it was extremely helpful.

Still the only thing that I still dont know is how big should my custom alternator be?

Those 3 amps have 250 amp fuses combined

100 amp fuse + 100 amp fuse + 50 amp fuse = 250 amps

250 amps * 14.4 volts = 3600 watts

Am I right so far? Anyways from here I dont know how to go. I dont know what type of car I will be purchasing either so I dont know how high the HO alternator for that car is. However im thinking I will need to do the custom one anyways. Any help on an approximate amperage for the alternator would be great.

Your welcome I think I'm going to upgrade my ALT as well. My pics are on cardomain.com my user name is bigjul45 I have a 1997 Chevy Tahoe. Those pics are old but the hook up under the hood is the same. I have a neww setup inside shoot me your email and I will send you those.

i came across this on a website and thought it was interesting since there seems to be some conflicting agreement about the yellow top vs red top.

"The Yellow Top is still a decent starting battery but due to a different chemistry for the paste material on the plates and a stronger acid it has a little less starting power than the Red Top"

i guess i was just in the market for a battery and one said redtop and the other said yellow. it was 50/50 so it made it a little hard to jump the fence on which one to buy. anyway what do you guys think about the statement above?

I worked at a high end shop for a while that charged top dollar for top dollar work. They never sold a customer a yellow top. they talked people out of yellow tops. they were not trying to save the customer any money, they were trying to save their reputation. The red tops have been suggested to me by more people with real world knowledge, and the yeller ones by people on commission.

I take that back... the shop van had yellow tops in it, but that was because they matched the paint scheme. the guy that built that thing was a tool, but it was loud.

i see what your saying, i do. honestly i dont know which one is better. there seems to be a lot of people saying similar things like what you said but claiming the yellow top. in my opinion you cant go "wrong" either way but thats not to say there isnt one better for certain applications than the other. i just thought it was interesting that theres a chemical difference between the two that i didnt see mentioned here. maybe i missed it i dont know. but anyway when someone is sitting the fence and ready to pull the trigger and buy a new battery it makes it a little hard because of conflicting testimony. i thnk the persuaders for the yellow top are because of the warranty. i was told if it was found out that you have over so many watts in your vehicle and your battery died under warranty that your warranty would not be honored unless it was a yellow top.