Printer Friendly Forum Posts - haemphyst’s new system

Well, I have redrawn my system... again! I think I have arrived at something that will be quite acceptable from a "Haemphyst" point-of view. 165A alternator, 2 red-tops, (2) 1F caps (I know... purchased before I knew...) (2) #4 wires to rear distribution, (1) #4 wire from rear battery, #4 wires to all amplifiers. Monster speaker cables, Streetwires ZN5 signal cables for highs, ZN3 for subwoofer signal. Geez, am I done with this damn thing yet?!?!

If anybody has any suggestions for additional toys, or suggestions for re-alignment of components, let me know. The three way is staying in the doors, so those won't be touched, so any suggestions made affecting THAT part of the system will be disregarded! posted_image

After making a trip to tcss's shop this weekend, and one of his LONG-time customers came in... (Martin-Logan elctrostats in his living room) The praise he fairly lavished on my doors was enough to make sure I touch them not... Time delay is a VERY good thing! That and steep crossover slopes! posted_image

Bob, too, can vouch for that!

I am only using both heads, because it turns out that Metra now has a double-DIN kit for the '01 Civic. Nobody had one before, whenever I would try to see if such a device existed. That, and I am in L-O-V-E that new 001 unit from Alpine... iPod control is worthless to me, (I think Steve Jobs and Bill Gates will rot in hell at the left and right hands of Satan...) but the fact that it'll power and read ANY USB compliant device... NICENICE!!! I should have taken one home this weekend! dwarren? DYohn? Get one. Period. Don't listen to it, don't evaluate it... Just get one. I think Bob has them in stock! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Looks great Dave, and thanks for the rec on the 001. Does it have an HD Radio tuner? Also be sure to let us know if the Alpine PDx amps sound as good as the Eclipse did!

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What happened to my pic? Looks like it was edited to be a link... it was already a link ;)
And yes, HD ready. Here's it's home page! Siruis and XM ready... MANY goodies on that toy for the money! I'll REALLY be needing one of those.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

165 Amp alt? Of all people. The biggest you can go buddy. What car I will find you something bigger for probably the same price.

ditch the red top and go with a Blue. In my experience they work much better for stricktly audio.

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place

jeffchilcott wrote:

165 Amp alt? Of all people. The biggest you can go buddy. What car I will find you something bigger for probably the same price.

ditch the red top and go with a Blue. In my experience they work much better for stricktly audio.

That IS the biggest I can go! I'd drop a 300A large case GM in there if I could make it fit! posted_image

It WAS a stock 75A, (cold rating I'm sure, probably 55A, hot) and I upgraded to that one! But if you can find something for an '01 Civic Coupe, lemme have it! Because of where the alternator is on the front of the engine, down low, and it's proximity to the AC compressor, no bigger case will go in the space, it's gotta be a re-worked stock case...

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff... didn't you read my diatribe on the virtues of red-top batteries? posted_image

Here's one... Isn't the bluetop really just a deep-cycle battery, like the yellow?

Not only that, but I already HAVE the red-tops, and they're both effectively brand new, so the batteries won't be changed out RIGHT NOW... I will be considering new flavors with my next battery change, batcaps being the front-runners, right now.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

I have seen a 160 A alt for your honda online. and Im sure that Dom or the boys at Ohio Gen could whip something up for ya pretty easy. and whats the scoop on the 001. cause I just snagged the Eclipse CD8445 for my setup in my honda, and Im still figuring everything out. amazing tho.

The system looks great. But i think the Eclipse amps are far superior.

Dude, I jus wanna ride around listening to it...and looking at the California girls.

That's all I have for you.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

See Hamfist Mobile. Ya all are welcome to visit and look at the " Poly Dollies".

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There is no such thing as free installation!

tcss] wrote:

See Hamfist Mobile. Ya all are welcome to visit and look at the " Poly Dollies".

See... I live here, and while I get the "Poly Dollies", (that'd be the hotties that attend school at Cal Poly SLO - and there are PLENTY that enjoy the ogling, too, guys!) I am as in the dark as everybody ELSE re: the phrase "See Hamfist Mobile"

Bob, help me out here! What does this mean??

:::::EDIT:::::
Got it... Thanks, Bob!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Any time David my friend.

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There is no such thing as free installation!

This thread needs pictures.

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Pictures of what? MY system? Not hardly! Right now, you might expect to see my system over at Ghetto Installs (Thanks, Bob posted_image

) Soon, tho, kids... soon!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Post a picture of how you integrated the 3-ways setup into your door panels. Ghetto or not. posted_image

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I hope you're not dissapointed by those alpine amps. I don't have any experience with the PDX series, but I have a lot of experience with with their $200-$400 stuff and there's no doubt in my mind that comparably priced eclipse amps (for highs and mids) are much much better.

If you have no experience with them why post? If you only sell Ford Focus' how can you have an opinion on the GT-40?

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There is no such thing as free installation!

Here's pics from Bob, during and after the construction of the door panels.

On this page we see links to pictures of the mid-bass drivers going into the doors.

Here's where I WAS!!! And here's where I'm heading.

TD Settings, as they are presently.

sqsq, as far as the change to Alpine amps, I think I'm going to be MORE than satisfied... The PDX amplifiers are B&O IcePower modules, just like the new Eclipse XA amplifier line, but in a significantly smaller box. This is the only reason I am swapping to the Alpines

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Well, I now have to sell the last amp! I have yanked them all from my car, and now I have NO TUNES!!! Bob has my NEW amps on order, but I can't buy 'em without the cash from selling all of the old ones first! posted_image

Help a brother out! Someone PLEASE buy my DA7232! Asking less than HALF of retail price! A REAL 2kW for less than 500 bux, shipped, and insured!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

OK, kids! I have one more question to ask, before I decide to nail this thing's feet to the floor.

In my trunk, I will have about 2.6 cubic feet, gross volume.

Option 1: The TCSounds TC1000 wants (for deep extension) 1 cube each, sealed, this will supposedly give me an f3 between 20 and 25Hz. This I can do, I have the space.

Option 2: Also recommended is 2.4 cubes, vented with a 4X20 port. Fb of this is 22Hz... (daddy like..), but I would only have space for 1. Slot loading would not be a problem. Plenty of volume for that. If I was to decide on THIS alignment, I'd be dumping the TC1000's in favor of an TC-10 OEM, with the 10 inch PR to go with it. More money, again... fo-hunnert mo dollas! dammit! .6 cubic feet with 1 10" PR, and I can't really find where it says what it'll do, but I'm sure it'd be subterranean!

Option 3: A true isobarik (NOT push-pull) configuration, with 1.2 cubic feet, net, on a HUGE slot load. Still making 20 to 22Hz, but 6dB quieter than the dual sealed config. Y'all know I don't REALLY care much about the SPL's... it's all about the cleeeeean...

Sorta leaning toward 3, but I'd like some input from other members, please! (You all know who you are, too... posted_image

) I like 3, because I could use 1 inch or 1.5 inch MDF, and still have volume to spare.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Go with option 3 first. I like the thought of sonic cancellation. Definately use the 1.5 ft^3 MDF...just because...lol. If its not loud enough then just do option 2. Sounds like an interesting idea. I have friends that say that ported woofers are a big no no and I would like nothing more than to show them that someone that knows what he is talking about is doing. I also like the idea that you already have the equipment for option 3, so you can go ahead and give it a try. Doesn't cost any extra at this point I suppose. Wood is cheaper than speakers. If it doesn't fit your idea of what you expected, then change.

I like the setup. Good luck!

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...typically, I just run whatever I randomly pick up off the floor.
1995 Ford Ranger Supercab
MECA member
Team CSS

wormy] wrote:

oesn't cost any extra at this point I suppose. Wood is cheaper than speakers. If it doesn't fit your idea of what you expected, then change

It WOULD cost, as each of those options would require a complete rebuild of the trunk portion of the system, as I am integrating battery, caps/power distribution, amp rack, and enclosure ALL into the space, and it'll all be one great big "thing". Everything is going to be hidden, and all you are going to see is a grey carpet-covered wall, when you open the trunk lid. (maybe woofer cones, too, I still have not decided which way I'm going to face them...) This is kinda why I was asking peoples opinions FIRST, cause there's TONS of work involved to change it once I'm "done with it". posted_image

My understanding of the TC-1000 is one of tremendous output for a 10" woofer, so I think one cone surface SHOULD be enough, I just hope I am not over-expecting...

wormy] wrote:

like the setup. Good luck!

Thanks! I'll be throwing up pics of construction as it happens, and there will be reviews after it's all said and done. I'll also try ot get over to Bob's place before the BBQ goes down, so he can help stir up excitement for this thing! LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

I like three, not that my opinion should be respected, but because I don't have a car to work on and I am living life through you.

Alright kiddies... I've decided. The numbers in WinISD made me decide on the VERY do-able, and seemingly UNBELIEVEABLY respectable, isobarik vented option... Yes, option 3!

Specs:
2 TC-1000 10 inch drivers, isobarik, face to face
1.2 cubic feet tuned to 25Hz (I know... huh? LOL)
Slot vent, 1 inch wide, 15 inches tall (these dimensions MIGHT change, but 15 square inches, nonetheless)
50 inch port length
Subsonic filter, implemented @ 22 to 24Hz, @ 48dB slope
1000WRMS input power, or 500WRMS per driver, series parallel wired for 4 ohm load.

Here's the plot...

20Hz - 102dB @ 19ms
25Hz - 110dB @ 43ms
30Hz - 110dB @ 19ms
35Hz - 109dB @ 7.6ms
40Hz - 108dB @ 4.8ms
45Hz - 108dB @ 3.5ms
50Hz - 108dB @ 2.9ms
55Hz - 108dB @ 2.4ms

I love that 2-3dB peak between 20 and 30Hz, because I can EQ that OUT... Yeah, the group delay leaves a LITTLE bit to be desired, but in the car, at those frequencies... It's not gonna matter, I think. Also it's easier to start with box/cabin GAIN, and remove it, than it is to EQ it back in if it's missing... I'll still end up with an overall system SPL of 108dB... FLAT to 20Hz!!!! (actually, I'm thinking 111 to 114 "in car" output SPL) From a single 10" woofer! I'm thinking that for a single 10, this system'll knock yer socks off! I think I'm gonna be happy, FINALLY!!! Let me know what you guys think! PLEASE!!!

Sarcomax, I respect everybody's opinion... I often live vicariously! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Very nice Dave. I've built ISO systems many times and they can be quite satisfying, especially in a car. You may need to experiment a bit with end geometry since those TC Sounds woofers have fairly large magnet structures. "Flat to 20Hz" may or may not be the case after you get it mounted, as the theoretical curve from Win ISD will change drastically what with cabin gain etc. but I'm sure it'll be nothing your devastatingly effective EQs can't handle. Or you could always use a Linkwitz Transform to flatten your bottom end.... :)

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I know, but in the car, I don't think there's going to be any LOSS... if anything, it'll be 1 to 2dB hotter at 20Hz, so, again, I can EQ it out. I know... those woofers are AMAZINGLY large drivers! But I do have (as of right now) plenty of space for them both. I'm sure my "devastatingly effective" EQs will do a fine job... Pretty sure, anyway, with all of their processing capabilities, I'll be able to make do! I am so close now, I can almost TASTE it! posted_image

I'm just hoping for LINEAR... Oh, and DEEP...

hu,hu.. he said "deep"...

Anybody wanna buy an amplifier!?!

Bob, I'll have more fundage coming your way tomorrow! Payday, YEA!!!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Oh you will be linear, especially with ISO mounting. No worries there. And I bet your car's cabin gain will be more like +6db around 55-65Hz and more like -2db @ 20hz... which tells me your slight hump will end up being a good thing and you will be cutting around 63Hz. You can probably clam shell mount those monster drivers.

By the way kiddies, that is a great deal on a really good amp. If I needed one right now...

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I mean just build a particle board test box. If you like the sound in that setup, then you know you'll love it in MDF!

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...typically, I just run whatever I randomly pick up off the floor.
1995 Ford Ranger Supercab
MECA member
Team CSS

Fundage, boy do I like fundage. LOL

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There is no such thing as free installation!

this is haemphyst, again, sitting in tcss's store, the man is playing the enabler again....

Sitting there on the other side of the counter, spending my money again, but I will be going home with a pair of Alpine PDX 4.150's, a PDX 1.1000, and the new iDA-X001... Thanks, Bob... (be sure you all read the sarcasm dripping from that!)

I will be letting everybody know how it all turns out, as the situation arises...

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There is no such thing as free installation!

Hey Dave, do you have the ability to test the power output of those Alpine PDX amps at load over time? Those things are so small, I'm curious to see if they actually put out close to rated power over time, or if there is a lot of sag.

BTW, the system looks like a good design. It's been a long time since I've seen an isobaric design being used.

Well the birth certificate says 1176watts RMS for the 1.1000, 152wpc RMS for one of the 4.150s, (which will be the one bridged to the Adire 6.8's for about 330wpc, dynamic power, of course) and 176wpc RMS for the other 4.150. Nice...

As far as "over time"? I could probably come up with SOME method of measuring... I'll see what's up with that!

I do have some very high hopes for the iso loading of those woofers. I am actually drawing the rack/enclosure right now! MIGHT just fit! LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Awesome, then if you were able to do the test you would be able to see how the birth certificates are measured. I always figured they were rated on initial load and don't take into account the sag of the power supply. It's really not a big deal as even if it drops down to 800 watts there still isn't an audible difference from the 1000 rated watts. I was just curious if they have a strong enough power supply in those small cases to keep the voltage up.

OK, everybody... Those of you who HATE mp3 and iPods (Steve Jobs can rot in hell, AFAIAC) as much as I do, need not apply to the school of the Alpine iDA-X001. If you DON'T have any problem with either of those things, or you already HAVE an iPod, then the unit is a VERY NICE PIECE!!!

I went through HOURS of research, downloads, software installs, conversions... A HUGE waste of all of my time, in the end. WMA Lossless, (WMA is actually supported, but not the lossless version) FLAC, (which I knew wouldn't work, but I thought I'd try anyway) Apple Lossless (m4a is supported, too, just NOT the lossless, again...) Nothing. All I got was a big ol' "Unsupported" message. Every time I just got more and more wized off, too. I am beginning to feel Bob's frustration with the direction that Alpine is heading. Total BS, kids!

After a 30 minute call to Alpine tech support, from the mouth of the Alpine "Tech Support" guy: "It only plays lossless if it is coming off an iPod." Stupid. AND, I don't get it... I was so angry. "Would you like me to register a complaint with the proper department?" HELL YES, I want you to register a complaint with the proper department. An iPod, after all, is really just a hard drive, so why would the deck only recognize a given format (lossless) from one piece of equipment? ANY hard drive or USB compliant device should be compatible! The only thing I can think of is this: The iPod actually does the playing of the audio signal, with an ANALOG being sent to the deck for signal processing and amplification. This, again is NOT lossless. Again, STUPID!!!

Why would they produce a really nice piece of gear like that, with a pretty nice D/A convertor, with the intention of being an audiophile output, only to REQUIRE you to play compressed audio? The artifacting in mp3 tires me out SO fast, I don't even want to listen to it sometimes!

So, all this being said, anybody want to buy a NEVER INSTALLED iDA-X001? It was powered up long enough (on the bench) for me to find out that all of the formats I WANTED to use wouldn't work, never a screw intalled, though. I JUST bought it from Bob (tcss) on Saturday, and I'm SURE he'd be happy to transfer the warranty to anybody here, that wanted to buy it.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

So Dave, is the issue because you are not using an iPod?

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Seems to be, and I have so much money wrapped up in the system and all my external drives, that I shouldn't HAVE to buy an iPos. (No typo, there...)

I'm going to make another call later today, and if I get a different tech, I'll see if I can get a different answer.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

So I take it you are attempting to interface a digital storage device directly to the iDA? If that's the case then yep, I am certain there will be format limitations on what it will decode. That makes sense. And if they decided to only support the iPod in terms of direct interface, that makes sense too since Apple pretty much controls the industry today. What about using an analog interface and external DAC for your storage devices... not the most elegant solution perhaps, but workable. As an aside, I use Apple Loss-less on my iPod and the SQ is outstanding.

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But the iDA supports "Mass Storage Devices". Thumb drives and external hard drives will connect and the iDA can control them, reading the directories, and playing them back. It even says in the literature that it supports lossless, it just doesn't SPECIFY that it has to be SOURCED from an iPos. A digital file SHOULD be a DIGITAL file, dammit, and it shouldn't CARE where it lives! Sorry... frustration is setting in QUITE deeply, now.

I just hate the fact that one of three things now has to happen:

1: I have to buy an iPos to use lossless files. (NOT gonna happen)
2: I have to listen to MP3... a DRAMTICALLY inferior playback. (COULD happen - but I won't be happy about it)
or C: I have to forget the convenience of hard drive based music. (most LIKELY to happen)

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Interesting. I bet it is partly a DRM issue.

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Apple lossless has no DRM. That's one of the things that has me so irked about this whole deal... Like I said, I'm going to try a second call to Alpine, and see what a different tech says about the whole mess... I'll update shortly.

Dave, ya want an iDA-X001? You have a 6th Gen iPos, obviously, or you wouldn't be able to listen to lossless... posted_image

Just send the money to Bob, he can write you a receipt for warranty purposes, credit your payment to my account, and I'll ship ya the unit! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

I'd love to upgrade man, but I just lept into a Blu Ray Disk machine for the HT and have no free cash for a while. Besides I am liking the DVA-9860 Bob sold me last year. posted_image

Apple m4a files do not encode DRM but in a sense (since that they are Apple proprietary) iTunes provides the DRM protection. This is my thought about why Alpine could be forcing the issue of using a iPod. I could be wrong, of course, it is just a wild guess. Give 'em hell and demand a work-around from their tech gurus... you might get lucky.

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Guys, guys, guys. David, Uncle Bob will not leave you twisting in the wind. Next time you come see me bring the X-001 with you. I will gladly do a return on it. You just have to promise to stop crushing the Alpine tech guys LOL!

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There is no such thing as free installation!

tcss] wrote:

Guys, guys, guys. David, Uncle Bob will not leave you twisting in the wind. Next time you come see me bring the X-001 with you. I will gladly do a return on it. You just have to promise to stop crushing the Alpine tech guys LOL!

I never crushed anybody! LOL Yep... Second call confirms the first call. Lossless formats are supported FROM the iPos ONLY, and ONLY if encoded with the security-hole-riddled bloatware, know as "iTunes". iTunes will NEVER be installed on any computer I own. Alpine can get bent! posted_image

I'll be seeing you soon, Bob! Thanks, by the way...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

OK, I've given up, completely. I ALMOST thought I might buy an iPos (CompUSA has them on sale right now - 80G for 349. I thought that was an OK price...) But I wanted to try to hack my way around the iTunes.

(Tech Tip: For those of you that DON'T know, you can copy all your music off of your iPos by locating a hidden directory called \iPod_Control\Music. The music files themselves will be in \iPod_Control\Music\FXX. You don't HAVE to authorize every computer you connect to your mp3 player. The directory and file names will be randomized, and will be nothing you can recognize, but if you have a codec intalled in your computer for WMP or WinAMP to play aac or m4a, you'll be able to play them. The tag information is NOT cryptic - it's plain text, and XP will show you the tag info, simply by hovering over the file name. There are also MANY programs out there that will rename your files "en masse", based on this tag info. I use Easy CD-DA Extractor. $29 for a lifetime of free updates! It will convert from the iPos .aac or .m4a to .mp3, as well as rename and file in any directory structure you'd like, ON THE FLY!)

Anyway, I tried copying Apple lossless directly to the \iPod_Control\Music directory, thinking that if it is ON iPos hardware, it should see it ok. Nope. No love. If the iPos can't see it to play it, external controllers won't either, and if it's not put in place by iTunes software, it (the iPos) can't see it or play it. So, I won' be having an X001 in my dash, I'll NEVER buy another Alpine product, Steve Jobs will DEFINITELY NOT be getting any of my hard-earneds, (whew! that was close...) and Bob will be getting a box in UPS, well packed and insured! posted_image

Sorry for all the ranting up to now, kids. I just thought everybody should know what they might be getting themselves into with the purchase of an Alpine X001. Alpine SAYS it's all about the iPos lover, but REALLY it's all about who's in bed with whom. Corporate inbreeding at it's finest, kiddies! iTunes NOT an option, if you truly want the "BEST POSSIBLE SOUND". (And that's a quote from Alpine, themselves.) If .mp3 is good enough for you, I still HIGHLY recommend this unit, it really is a fantastic idea, if limited to compressed, lossy music files, i.e. WMA, MP3, and AAC.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Hmmm, I've never had a desire to own an ipod (iPos) or have a head unit that could communicate with one.

My Kenwood KVT-815DVD accepts DVD's that have had MP3's, WMA's etc burned on to them. That's 8 gigs per disc. And I can use the 7" touch screen to scroll the track lists and switch between folders.

However, my old Alpine allowed me to adjust the slopes on it's crossovers... ah, sacrifices must be made.

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'94 Ford Explorer / Kenwood KVT-815DVD / RF Power T1682C 6x8 (all doors) / RF Power T10001 / 12" Kicker L5 (x4) / Optima Yellow Top Battery

I can't wait for an "mp3 player" that supports ogg and flac!

Hell-OO-O I've been saying that for years! (Well, since I discovered .FLAC, anyway.) The Kenwood Music Keg was RUMORED to eventually support .FLAC, but I haven't seen it yet. I did actually find a portable machine with .FLAC support, the Cowan iAudio, I think, AND it had a radio with radio to memory recording capabilities. Just checking right now, and I see the new D2 from the company DOES INDEED still support .FLAC. I might be looking into one of those! posted_image

I understand the need to reduce power consumption in a portable unit, and less processing means less power, but in a car, where power capacities are effectively INFINITE for an .mp3 (i.e. compressed or "portable" audio) device, ALL the portable formats should be supported.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

so wheres the pics of the isobaric sub setup?

and what is the reason for being able to unscrew the TCsounds?

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'94 Ford Explorer / Kenwood KVT-815DVD / RF Power T1682C 6x8 (all doors) / RF Power T10001 / 12" Kicker L5 (x4) / Optima Yellow Top Battery

hustlin247 wrote:

so wheres the pics of the isobaric sub setup?

It's (they're) on the way... still in the very detailed drawing stage. I haven't even put saw to wood, yet. The enclosure/rack is going to be a pretty tight fit, with the required airspace, the HUGE vent, (some compromises will be made, sadly... not bad, but still.) AND room for 3 amplifiers, 2 caps and a second red-top. There won't be any space to spare!

hustlin247 wrote:

and what is the reason for being able to unscrew the TCsounds?

I don't inderstand this question. Do you mean "Why do you need to be able to remove the woofers?" If that is the case, I need to be able to remove the inside (buried) one, in case I were to blow it. If not, please expand your question a bit... Tell me exactly what you want to know! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

system looks great, i cant wait to see how the isobaric setup works out

btw, i know this is going way back but did you every get my reply to your PM from wayyyy back when?

Oh... My... God...

These PDX amps are INCREDIBLE. I haven't put them in the car yet, but I needed to see what I was in for. I pulled one out to my living room, with my 100A power supply, and proceeded to run one of the 4.150s through it's paces.

Bridged mode: What can I say? Powerful, musical, dynamic. I was able to wrinkle my 52 inch ribbons full length, with "Kiss the Girl" from the Little Mermaid soundtrack (don't knock it, it's an AWESOME reference recording) which I have discovered though previous experimenting happens at approximately 280 to 300 watts. My usual amplification for the ribbons is an NAD 216THX, rated at 220 watts per channel into the 4 ohm resistive load presented by the ribbons, and it can't wrinkle 'em. I heard no sense of strain, just music. My ears couldn't take any more, and I heard no clipping or excessive distortion. What distortion I DID hear was probably from my CERTAINLY non-optimal room, and all of it's terrible reflections, and/or my ears complaining.

Stereo mode: Even better. I know... but it WAS! I ran all 4 drivers in the system off that amp in 4 channel mode, using the built-in crossover. The highs were even smoother... The mids were even MORE liquid. MILES ahead of the NADs. The bass... oh, the BASS! I didn't try that (running bass) in bridged mode, but in stereo, it was deep, controlled, accurate bass... FAR better control (even with 1/3 the power) than the Adcom GFA565 powering the woofer section right now. I have never HEARD those systems sound that good, LITERALLY!!! All I could say was "WOW! I mean WOW!" Are the SURE that it's only 150W x 4? The sound was FAR more powerful than I would have imagined, especially from such (relatively) modest power output, and even MORE amazing was the fact that it did all this with my painfully inefficient ribbons!

The crossover and pre-amp section are very clean, and perfectly serviceable... They do an admirable job at their jobs. The crossover has a WIDE range of settings, I want to say it's 30 Hz to 400(?)Hz. PLENTY of range for most systems. Anybody contemplating full-range digital owes it to themselves to get a look at these amplifiers! Alpine and B&O have teamed up in an over-the-top fashion, and hit it out of the park!

Damn, Bob! You gotta dump the JL stuff in your car and get the PDX's going in there! No messin' around here... I'm completely serious man!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

And to think I was worried how "The world's most critical ear" would react to these amps! Soon to be available at a Walmart near you. LOL

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There is no such thing as free installation!

OK, all... This weekend is the weekend it's all happening. I'm sick and tired of having no tunes in that damn car! posted_image

Ticket total for this system? I added it all up, (equipment, wires, wood, all of it...) without labor, and I guessed roughly $7 to $8K!

Anyway, I won't be able to mount the amplifiers in a stack, like I wanted to, so, I'll be mounting them on the back of the sub enclosure. (Don't worry about vibration, I don't BELIEVE in vibrating enclosures... translation: VERY heavy bracing)

If I'm lucky, I might even be able to re-design the enclosure (since I have about an additional cubic foot with which to play) to possibly take care of some of the peak I had before. DYohn, I'm leaning toward the stuffed TL design, again; I'll end up with an FS of 24, (and an f3 around 18Hz) with my existing available dimensions! Can you say CRAZY STYLE!?!

Pictures WILL follow, I bought a camera JUST for this project, but for now, here's a drawing of the sub...

posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Ok that is an interesting design that I haven't seen before. So, the subs are mounted face to face in an enclosure that is one big transmission line? Got me curious. Is this similar to a tuned isobarik bandpass? Will you have access to the subs once everything is built? Just curious. Years ago I had an isobaric dual reflex bandpass enclosure that I thought did really well, so, just kinda wondering what the comparison is.

Looking back at it, I can see the confusion... The front (top) line is the front lip of the bottom of the box. It isn't a wall.

The terminus (the space next to the front woofer magnet) is in the front wall. It's a single turn, true tapered TL, that's all :) "nothing more to see here!" LOL Bandpass, NO!!!!! Eeech! But, yes, it is indeed isobarik loaded. Linearity is our friend!

As far as access to the subs, the back panel will be installed on cleats, with hurricane nuts, and stainless button cap hardware, in case the need should ever arise. The woofers will be held in place by the same hurricane nuts and stainless button cap hardware, but the hurricane nuts will be buried inside (between) the two ¾" mdf pieces.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Nice TL Dave. I like the concept of ISO mounting which will change the geometry requirements... does it help make required line length shorter? You are the man with these designs - me, I'd build ISO bass reflex!

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Support the12volt.com

No, the line length will remain the same, as a TL isn't based on Helmholtz's formulae, like a vented enclosure is. TL's are all resonance, and ignore the Vas of the driver. In many respects, TL's are the easiest enclosures of all to build, (or rather DESIGN) as all you have to know is the Sd and the Fs of the driver. My best overall results have always followed the following basics: Your inlet to the line should be at least 50% Sd, (it can be larger) with the terminus ALWAYS 25% of the driver Sd, and your line length should be a ¼ wavelength of the driver's Fs. Done and done!

The major benefit (and WHAT a benefit, it is) to the iso loading is the linearity improvement, especially at Fs, but across the entire passband. We all know the detriments to iso loading, but the reduced efficiency will be well worth it, I think! All I know is the 2 Infnity 12's in stuffed lines that I had in my 86 Civic produced the FINEST bass I have ever heard in my car. When I realized that the large(ish) deep tuned vented box wasn't going to allow me to install everything the way I really wanted, I plugged the TL numbers in, and lo, and behold, they worked! I have some pretty high hopes for this one as well!

:::::Editor's Note:::::
Sitting here thinking about this, I also realized that the additional mechanical stiffness can indeed inprove the overall control of the air in the line, potentially further improving transient response. This will be my first ever iso loaded TL, so it might require more tweaking. Wait, I just came up with ANOTHER enclosure in my mind, where I could possibly use both 10's! Notes to follow! Look for 'em, kids!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Notes and diagram for second TL enclosure! While not a TRUE transmission line, it can certainly qualify as a quasi-transmission line.

posted_image

Quasi-transmission line notes. None of these are benefits, or detriments, just notes!

Reduced efficiency, due to much heavier stuffing
Improved damping, due to much heavier stuffing
Improved output due to additional driver cone
Simpler construction – no additional steps required
Can leave rubber trim rings in place on woofer
Shallower enclosure, allowing for additional trunk space
Taller enclosure, requiring additional steps in construction phase
Tuning (i.e. stuffing) could be more difficult
Could conceivably tune each half for a different frequency
Terminus would be larger at 46 square inches (=Sd)

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Ouch, my brain hurts. posted_image

I'm going with the first design... It's actually almost finished, sitting in the back yard, waiting for the Gorilla Glue® (LOL) to cure, so I can use the clamps elsewhere in the thing...

I'd put screws into the thing, so I could do this SO much faster, but I left my Makita at work on Friday... I guess I COULD go get it, I do have to change the backup tapes...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Pics pics pics....hope your documenting this build!

Input from the build team! This has to be one of the most painstaking enclosures I have ever built... Everyplace I turn, I have to make a change... Luckily, I'm a fairly resourceful young man! LOL Turns out that the cleat idea for holding the back panel on, while brilliant, (if I do say so myself) will work, but I have to cut a gap in the cleat to allow the woofer to even get INTO the box, after the septum is installed! That's gonna be the fun part - I need to remove enough cleat to allow the woofer through, without drastically compromising the strength of the entire assembly!

Three days, three sheets of MDF later, (three different thicknesses - ¼, ½, and (mostly) ¾ inch) gallons of sweat (it's been pushing 100 degrees here in Bakersfield), and surprisingly, less cussing than I think I have ever spouted in ANY build...

Box form is finished, cleats are all installed, rear panel is laminated, baffle/septum lamination is curing as I type, front panel is ready for installation... All I have to do is cut a hole in the baffle, and screw everything into place! Almost done! One more piece of half inch MDF to cut to length, and this job is OVER, save for the finishing... I'm in love with the idea of a grey fleckstone for the front, with Honda carpet to blend into the trunk... Not totally settled on the finishing touches, yet!

Pictures are being taken every step of the way, and when I am finished with it all, I'll post them!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Fiberglass resin could be a big help right now. I started using it for SPL enclosures to add additional strength, but noticed on a few street enclosures how good they were sounding with resin applied. I dont know if it has anything to do with how pourous the MDF is vs the resin or what, but just a thought for ya to consider

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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place

I will consider it... As I hadn't thought about it previously, but I'll be needing a way to seal the septum at the top and bottom, anyway.

Like you said. In an enclosure where there isn't really any pressure to speak of on the walls, (a TL is almost exclusively atmospheric pressure) I don't really know how much good it'll do, but... WTH, right? Cheap, with potential benefits. I like cheap with potential benefits!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

FG resin works wonders to deaden and seal an enclosure. Dave, is your issue that because of the mod you had to make you're not sure the back baffle will be secure? Not air tight? What's the haps man?

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Support the12volt.com

whenever I buy a prefabbed sub enclosure I put run fiberglass resin and rubber undercoating inside the enclosure. It adds a lot of weight, but the enclosure is not even the same anymore at that point.

Real solid...

I recommend FG resin.

on another note, I have been building my sub enclosures with 1/2" to 3/4" birch plywood and then I FG the inside with a couple layers of FG mat. That is what a local shop does here, and they make some really good boxes.

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Mark "Hamzter" Cinense
1991 Infiniti G20 w/JDM SR20DE
Eclipse CD8445
MTX Thunder 684
Polk DB6750
Polk DB6500
Optima Red Top in the Trunk

DYohn] wrote:

FG resin works wonders to deaden and seal an enclosure. Dave, is your issue that because of the mod you had to make you're not sure the back baffle will be secure? Not air tight? What's the haps man?

I will be having a small issue with the back panel sealing completely, not an insurmountable issue, but it's there. It'll be happening at the corners, where the cleats are miter cut. There is a very small space in the corner (around about a 16th inch square - so, exceptionally TINY) where the back won't fill all the way. A little caulking will fix it right up, though.

It'll be secure. I have (I think - don't remember the number right now) 30 screws holding the back panel onto the cleats... It pulls up NICE and tight.

The mod actually came with the septum. It ended up being able to be a little longer, providing me with about 4 extra inches of line length, and the fact that the woofers surrounds are SO tall, I had to laminate a second piece of ¾ MDF to it, for 1.5 inch thick baffle. I hadn't planned on THAT thick a baffle. posted_image

This moved the septum back a half an inch, AND caused the front woofer to protrude about an additional ¼ inch from the front of the entire enclosure.

Also, I can't get the back woofer in! Still haven't cut the cleats yet, to allow it to enter from the rear. I have to be able to have them OUT, because the fleckstone is a spray-on coating!

More details on the way. Off to work right now!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Here's a BUNCH of photos for the build up till now!

posted_image

Big mess... Soon to be gone complelety!
posted_image

Parts, and tools! (I like tools!)
posted_image

Old wire(s) path.
posted_image

New power wire path posted_image

New speaker wire route, as well. This is the left side, right side is similar.
posted_image

James.

Rough layout of TL on bottom panel, before assembly started.
posted_image

Different angle of same.
posted_image

An assembly step.
posted_image

Another...
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Front panel, cut and test fit.
posted_image

Cleat being held in place during gluing.
posted_image

Another cleat.
posted_image

Big pic of cleats being installed.
posted_image

Marc... We're not sure about Marc, yet...
posted_image

Another cleat. The lead weights are from my trebuchet. Yes, I have a trebuchet!
posted_image

Back panel test fit.
posted_image

Like a finger in a nose!
posted_image

LOTS of line space... Dave is giddy with excitement at this point!
posted_image

More test fitting!
posted_image

Approximately what the front will look like when complete.
posted_image

Back panel lamination. (Had to cut the end out of the inside piece so the woofer would have some place to breathe.)
posted_image

Baffle plate, and septum, in gluing stage.
posted_image

Full view of same.
posted_image

Quality control inspection. posted_image

Hurricane nuts are Dave's friend!
posted_image

Full view of back of enclosure, from the front.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote:

I don't inderstand this question. Do you mean "Why do you need to be able to remove the woofers?" If that is the case, I need to be able to remove the inside (buried) one, in case I were to blow it. If not, please expand your question a bit... Tell me exactly what you want to know!

On TCsounds website it shows the magnet being removeable from the spider... and its threaded..?

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'94 Ford Explorer / Kenwood KVT-815DVD / RF Power T1682C 6x8 (all doors) / RF Power T10001 / 12" Kicker L5 (x4) / Optima Yellow Top Battery

DYohn] wrote:

Outstanding. Can't wait to see (and maybe even hear) the finished product.

It can all be yours, IF you decide to go to the 2nd Annual (but first happening of) the12volt.com Barbecue! Any more interest in it yet, anybody?

hustlin247 wrote:

haemphyst wrote:

I don't inderstand this question. Do you mean "Why do you need to be able to remove the woofers?" If that is the case, I need to be able to remove the inside (buried) one, in case I were to blow it. If not, please expand your question a bit... Tell me exactly what you want to know!

On TCsounds website it shows the magnet being removeable from the spider... and its threaded..?

Oh... no. That's not a feature on the TC1000's, but otherwise, the reason would be so you can ship only the light part of the driver - the (around 5 pounds) basket, cone and voice coil, rather than a 30+ pound magnet structure...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote:

It can all be yours, IF you decide to go to the 2nd Annual (but first happening of) the12volt.com Barbecue! Any more interest in it yet, anybody?

...oO(What's an annual the12volt.com barbeque without the12volt? If any of you guys make it here tomorrow, you can be a part of our first annual pool party )

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posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

Is the pool party going down in the Seattle area? Because its about 84 degrees here right now and that'd be nice.

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'94 Ford Explorer / Kenwood KVT-815DVD / RF Power T1682C 6x8 (all doors) / RF Power T10001 / 12" Kicker L5 (x4) / Optima Yellow Top Battery

No, it's in the New Orleans area and it's been in the 90's here.

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posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

Hey that looks nice, Volt! Is that a pool Katrina built? posted_image

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Support the12volt.com

Lol ...I wish. My insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my roof. As a matter of fact, I was still out of pocket a few hundred duckies just for that.

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posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

Got a question for ya, how exactly did you come up with the ideas/plans for the enclosure you are building?

Well, I started with just a deep tuned vented enclosure - you've seen the plans. When I tried to fit it into my trunk, and it wasn't going to happen as neatly or as easily as I wanted it to, my hand was forced.

I've been building TLs for years, my largest set are in my buddy Dave's living room. They are 18 inch woofers (Radio Shack, actually, sourced from KSC, about 10 or so years ago) in unstuffed TLs that are about as large as a refrigerator. They weigh in around 250 pounds each (I never weighed then, but I've hefted 'em around enough LOL) and make AMAZING subsonic bass.

From those designs, I found a design called "The Un-Line" in a Speaker Builder Magazine, (I want to say a 1988 issue) and I built a few smaller ones, based on that information. Around about that time I started working for a car stereo shop here in Bakersfield, and I was the guy everybody came to, when "too low" wasn't "low enough". I really raised the bar, though, when I put a pair of Infinity Pro 12's in stuffed lines in my 86 Civic. A 9 cubic foot, 300 pound (damped with sand, thank you posted_image

) enclosure, it was without question, the very deepest, tightest, smack-you-in-the-chestiest, bass I ever heard in my life.

Even the Infinity rep for our store thought it was that good.

So, that's where the idea came from, it was just a natural progression from HUGE vented enclosure that WOULDN'T fit, to TL, that will! The nicest part about a stuffed line is that you can tune it for the environment in which it is installed, so this is why I think this is going to be a very good solution to my space contraints vs. my everquest for deep response!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Anybody got any idea how to CALL Dom at Iraggi? All I have is e-mail info, and that's from his store on eBay. I'd like to ask him if there is a higher output alternator for my car... Seems my OTHER one is going out.

If I could rebuild it, I would, but buying internal regulators seems to be a no-no if you AREN'T an alternator supplier, OEM or rebuilder... What up wit dat!?!

:::::::NEW INPUT:::::::
Seems the alternator in the 01-05 Civic, with the 1.7L engine, is a Mitsubishi alternator, and as per the guys at Ohio Gen, there isn't any way to really get the power density up past around 110A reliably.

Now, he did tell me that there is a drop-in replacement, in a Denso housing, (supposedly from an Acura... I'll have to look into that) rated for 160A, hot and 190A, cold. But my GAWD, they are expensive... 525 BUCKS! There HAS to be someplace cheaper than that!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Dude I got a an Irragi alt sitting in my room. You wanna buy it? It's for a 94 accord non v-tech?

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dwarren wrote:

Dude I got a an Irragi alt sitting in my room. You wanna buy it? It's for a 94 accord non v-tech?

If that's the one that is in the Denso case, that is supposed to fit my car... You bet! I'm doing the research on it right now. If that's the one that is the 200A for the Accord 94 2.2L it might just be the toy I am looking for!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

It's freakin' HOT out there! STILL has to be at least 95 or so.

Well, I sealed the MDF, and put the first coat of grey Fleckstone on it, about 15 minutes ago. I like the grey! This thing is getting SO close! I still need to order a trunk floor carpet from Honda...

Good Lord willin', and the creek don't rise, I should be able to finish this whole thing up this weekend. BOOyah!

At LEAST, I'll have it in, and listening to tunes... Might not be cosmetically perfect, but it'll be running! This weekend'll give me plenty of time to tune it! I've got a couple little things I need to do to the enclosure (radiusing the corners, and stuffing) before I can call it complete, but, they are little things.

Listening results and complete pictorial to follow, probably tomorrow night!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

cool... can't wait to see it.

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Mark "Hamzter" Cinense
1991 Infiniti G20 w/JDM SR20DE
Eclipse CD8445
MTX Thunder 684
Polk DB6750
Polk DB6500
Optima Red Top in the Trunk

First in car impressions...

"One Note Wonder" Something bigbangs would probably LOVE!

It sounds like @$$... Tuning will hopefully fix it all, involving crossover settings, adjusting of the stuffing, EQ curves, etc. I am referring ONLY to the sub... I haven't even connected the doors yet - it got dark before I could get to them. I don't think I am even worried about the doors, I KNOW what they can sound like. posted_image

I will mention, however, that I am definitely hearing my desired "subterranean" response. And then some! Yeah, it goes DEEP!!! Actually, thinking about it now, and without even putting the mic in the car to see WHERE the problem children are, and knowing I haven't even played with any UCS settings, yet, I think I will leave the stuffing where it is for right now, and play with the electronic end, rather than the physical end.

I have to work tomorrow, but I'll be spending the remainder of the afternoon in my trunk tomorrow and Sunday, trying to get the desired flat response. More details to follow!

The PDX1.1000 is a BEAST! TONS of power on tap, but I think it's efficiency isn't as high as the 4.150's, as it was hotter than Hades when I put my hand on it!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

You must be kidding yourself, no matter how much you tweak them eq's, that on note wonder box, is gonna remain a one note wonder box.

GO SEALED, or go home!!

Just giving you a hard time....Good luck! posted_image

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dwarren wrote:

You must be kidding yourself, no matter how much you tweak them eq's, that on note wonder box, is gonna remain a one note wonder box.

GO SEALED, or go home!!

Just giving you a hard time....Good luck!

Ow, baby... very ow. LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Get this thing done already. I may have some time in August to meet up, for an all you can eat deal, and have another demo.

If you are really interested in that alt, I would be happy to cut you a killer deal.

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OK, kiddies! Daddy LIKE! posted_image

Grinning from ear to ear, I was listening to Supertramp's last album "Some Things Never Change". (Highly recommended.) Track 2 has a kick drum in it that is NOTHING but subsonics, and this system nails it. The car doesn't vibe with this particualr track, it SHUDDERS. The seats massage you... Yeah, baby! Peter Gabriel's "Secret World Live", track 5, disc 1, has amazingly deep and fast bass, again, right on the head! Erasure's "The Innocents" also provides for an amusing listening experience! Classical listening tests are soon to happen!

Efficiency is CERTAINLY lower than either a sealed or ESPECIALLY a vented box, it really WANTS (and likes) tons of power, but I have it in spades with the 1.1000 amp running it!

I am MOST impressed with a couple of facts about this thing:
1: It's not there unless you need it to be, i.e. it never interferes with the music, no smearing of the image.
2: DEEEEEP. I haven't been able to throw anything at it that it can't handle, yet. Mad deebeez? Not at all, but musical, fast, deep, tight... (GFAA is MIA, so I'll have to locate that, as that has about the deepest stuff I own on it. Oh, wait! 1812 Overture! I'll let y'all know!) I haven't been able to bottom it out yet, either!

I was right with leaving the physical portion of it alone, seems the stuffing was correct, right from the get-go. SOME very minor EQ tweaking and additional TD on the front stage will still be necessary, I think, but so far... Not a thing in the world wrong with it! I'll be dumping my mic in there with my laptop, and I'll post a few TrueRTA graphs, when I get them! Also, semi-final photos are coming!

Dan, as far as the alternator, what model car exactly was it supposed to fit? The '94 Accord had a few options. posted_image

The AYCE sounds like a good idea... I haven't had sushi in about 6 months! DYohn, you in?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

No comments from ANYBODY? Dan? Dave? Bob? (I know... Bob's on vaca...) But still! I'd like your input, guys!

Anyway, pics are in the works, (double-o, g-l-i-e install, so you won't get to see the trunk, just yet) as are RTA graphs, SPL measurements, final TD settings, what have you...

Finally! It's playing!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote:

First in car impressions...

"One Note Wonder" Something bigbangs would probably LOVE!

I heard that. Iown you when it comes to stereo systems..lol posted_image

But when are you going to get back to me regarding the email?

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Pioneer Deck
5.25 Kicker Front Speakers
6.5 Kicker Rear Speakers
2 12" Directed SX Subwoofers
Hifonics Brutus BXi 1206D AMP
1 Capacitor
2 gauge wiring..Big 3 upgraded
Steady 13.8 volts

Both copies of the spreadsheet won't open. I already tried both of them on three different machines (literally). Try sending it to me again!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

sent again..also read their website. i'm going to sue them for false advertisement. They are claiming the subwoofers has close to 2 inches of cone travel. Now .50inches doesnt even come close to 2 inches.

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Pioneer Deck
5.25 Kicker Front Speakers
6.5 Kicker Rear Speakers
2 12" Directed SX Subwoofers
Hifonics Brutus BXi 1206D AMP
1 Capacitor
2 gauge wiring..Big 3 upgraded
Steady 13.8 volts

I'm in, just tell me when and where.

Sounds like you got a nice low Q out of the TL. If it's hitting the subsonics without being overpowering up around 100Hz (no matter what your Xover might be) you have to be around 0.5 or in the infinite baffle/critically dampened range. That's fantastic. Does it lose its impact on the highway or does it have enough punch to cut through the road hum?

Can't wait to see/hear it.

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Support the12volt.com

Well, I actually didn't know what to say other than congrats on it working right the first try! You guys need to move half way across the country so I can see these hi-tech installs and hear them myself!! Anyways, I'm looking forward to pics on this since I have never seen a enclosure like what you have done.

It's freakin' TIGHT! It plays very low, without overhang, stops when it's supposed to, goes when it's supposed to, blends fantastically with the Adires in the doors... Reasonably loud enough... I was able to get to 114dB, pink noise, below 65Hz. That's one 10" woofer, people! Plenty for me, though!

I noticed a few holes in the response while I was tuning, phase and slope, with a little bit of EQ was able to fix it to almost perfect. I was able to raise the crossover point to 65Hz, relieving the Adires of the 65Hz to 48Hz band they were doing before without the sub in place. Those cleaned up quite a bit just from that (not that they were dirty at ALL, mind you). Crossover points are now 65Hz, 300Hz, 4K, all 48dB slopes, and MINOR eq'ing, in three points. I think the worst point I had to overcome was a fairly severe dip at 750Hz, and it went away with a .03Q +2dB boost. I still can't figure where a notch like that was coming from...

I ended up with an Fs right around 24Hz, just like I was hoping for. Nice gentle rise from about 30Hz, down to 24 to 22Hz, and then the subsonic filter kicks in, set for 15Hz @ 12dB. Actually, I haven't driven it on the highway yet, I'll probably take it for a ride tomorrow after work... Now that it's all done, I can do that, and not have to worry about bringing it right home to work on it. I'll probably take it over to BestBuy and rub their noses in it! ROFL!

Baffle/Septum Installed and glued in place
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Same thing, different angle
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From the other end...
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I REALLY didn't want the back to come loose or rattle!
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I mentioned having to modify the cleats to get the woofer in...? Here's the mod!
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A little trick I came up with... Slot the board, fill slot with gorilla glue, clamp or weight heavily!
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First coat of fleckstone.
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Another angle...
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The next morning, ready to go into the car!
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Man... the thing's I'll do for perfection!
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Wired for sound, as it were.
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My dogs... Nothing whatsoever to do with the build!
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Shadow

Cooper (we think he's "not exactly heterosexual"...)
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All happy, in it's home.
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From the driver's side...
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Battery charger cable. 4 gauge! They don't call me haemphyst for nothing!
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Mil-Spec 100A Battery Charger. I bought three of them, new in the box for $50.00 each! Sold 2 for $350.00 each... Would have bought more, but they wouldn't fit in my 86 Civic! posted_image

Welded caster frame under it to move the thing around! (That's my coffee roaster on top!)
posted_image

DYohn, I'll PM you with place and time... Actually, place will be the same place, time will be determined! I'll have to boil down a time with Dan!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Actually David, the reason I haven't commented much is because I am a little jealous posted_image . (been busy at work too)

Thus far you've done a fantastic job in my estimation, the fabrication of the box is excellent. I am still skeptical as to how that box actually sounds, but in reality I would like to hear it in person. I guess I am just set in sealed box ways.

As far a meet goes, lemme know...keep up the good work!

By the way, was that an RTA or was that mic for your eq's?

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Looks great. Your notch at 750Hz could be driver interaction between the mid-woof and mid-range (even with 48db slopes) but is p0robably a null caused by the geometry of the car's interior or a dip in your mid driver's response. That's an unfortunate place for a null as it's right in the middle of the musical spectrum: try changing the 300Hz Xover point up to 600Hz and see what happens.

I am willing to bet your dogs indeed did have something to do with your build and installation. I bet they supervised the whole thing. posted_image

I'm in San Francisco all next week at Semicon, by the way.

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dwarren wrote:

Actually David, the reason I haven't commented much is because I am a little jealous. (been busy at work too)

Aw, shucks... You don't have to be jealous! You've got a pretty darn good system in your car already! I know about the "busy at work" thing, too! I've been fighting an ongoing battle with my software vendor, trying to get them to FIX this damn EMR, and it's been costing me 4 dollars a MINUTE! I'm in the wrong business, I think, sometimes...

dwarren wrote:

Thus far you've done a fantastic job in my estimation, the fabrication of the box is excellent. I am still skeptical as to how that box actually sounds, but in reality I would like to hear it in person. I guess I am just set in sealed box ways.

Thanks! I used to be a "sealed guy" as well, but after I built my first TL, then the stuffed TL came into the picture, I was hooked! Seriously. Excellent control, as with a sealed enclosure, with the extension and (relative) efficiency down LOW as a vented enclosure. I think you'll like it, too! If nothing else, I think you'll be impressed with it's capabilities, even if it doesn't exactly fit your tastes!

dwarren wrote:

As far a meet goes, lemme know...keep up the good work!

I'll PM ya, and get some times figured out... I'm pretty much available for just about any weekend in August, and the only day I'm NOT available in July is the weekend of the 20th.

dwarren wrote:

By the way, was that an RTA or was that mic for your eq's?

The mic was plugged into my MAudio USBPre, for the RTA function in TrueRTA. The computer got it's pink noise signal to the system through a Philips Aurilium External sound card. I like doing it that way, with two separate boxes, so there isn't as much overhead. One card doing all of the I/O functions, especially with higher resolutions, faster response speeds, and more samples - it gets a bit glitchy, sometimes. The CPU is perfectly capable of doing all the number crunching, I showed about 38% CPU utilization, at fast response, 1/24octave, WITH the pink noise running, and the UCSPros connected (for the real-time tuning).

DYohn] wrote:

ooks great. Your notch at 750Hz could be driver interaction between the mid-woof and mid-range (even with 48db slopes) but is p0robably a null caused by the geometry of the car's interior or a dip in your mid driver's response. That's an unfortunate place for a null as it's right in the middle of the musical spectrum: try changing the 300Hz Xover point up to 600Hz and see what happens.

I wanted to keep the crossover lower than that, to avoid beaming from the Adire. A 7" woofer will start to pull in at around 160Hz, so I figured I was still at about 45 degrees or better at 300Hz. ON AXIS, those adires are fantastic drivers, and will indeed go all the way out to 3.5K, but physics still dictate the beaming functions... Can't avoid them! I was thinking it's a cabin interaction somewhere, especially since I was able to kill it so easily, and since I have it all taken care of now, I'm not terribly worried about it anymore.

DYohn] wrote:

am willing to bet your dogs indeed did have something to do with your build and installation. I bet they supervised the whole thing.

Well, they pooped a lot! And they kept people out of the back yard when I left the gate open...

DYohn] wrote:

'm in San Francisco all next week at Semicon, by the way.

What are you doing at Semicon?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

that is flippin' sweet...

I wouldn't mind having a battery charger like that too...

how you likin' them Subs?

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Mark "Hamzter" Cinense
1991 Infiniti G20 w/JDM SR20DE
Eclipse CD8445
MTX Thunder 684
Polk DB6750
Polk DB6500
Optima Red Top in the Trunk

Stupid work computer and it's extremely limited web browsing. I can never see anyones pictures here. I can't wait to get home and check them out...wait, I can look on my phone. I have no internal monolauge today...

Are you going to laguna seca the weekend of the 20th? I will be there on sunday, cheering on the suzuki guys.

Thanks, hamzter! Those subs are AWESOME, I highly recommend them! I have to wonder how a pair of 12's would do in a similar enclosure! Maybe 15's anybody? LOL Dave sees a new home sub in the relatively near future! posted_image

DAMN! I forgot about Laguna-Seca! I have work on Friday and Saturday, and Friday night I'm going to a Dodgers game, too! (Yes, I'll be riding the Bandit!) Then Sunday, I'm ... oh, forget it, that weekend is shot to hell! I'll be driving about 1000 miles that weekend!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Those subs are TCs right? the TC1000? I want to do 1 x 12 dual 4. I like doing the sealed in a fiber enclosure.

you think these will rock?

where did you get them from?

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Mark "Hamzter" Cinense
1991 Infiniti G20 w/JDM SR20DE
Eclipse CD8445
MTX Thunder 684
Polk DB6750
Polk DB6500
Optima Red Top in the Trunk

Get em right from TCSounds.com Yes, that's the TC1000 10 inch. With the right power applied, and in a correct enclosure, they'll rattle your teeth!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Hey Dave. I'll be working the floor every day (and the parties every night) at Semicon. It's part of my day job. :)

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Hi guys. Sorry I missed out on all the fun. Everything looks great Dave. Sadly my "vacation" was anything but and it looks like I will be getting out of the business. I'll keep everyone in the loop. Bob

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There is no such thing as free installation!

tcss]H wrote:

guys. Sorry I missed out on all the fun. Everything looks great Dave. Sadly my "vacation" was anything but and it looks like I will be getting out of the business. I'll keep everyone in the loop. Bob

Out of the business? Join the club. My boss has "other" plans for the shop.

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That sound ominous, Bob! I hope everything's OK... Was planning a trip that way, for either this weekend or next! Hangin' out that long?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

The first professional to hear David's system, that's me...

Despite the "ultra-clean" installation, this has to be the most accurate, best sound-staged car audio system that these old ears have ever heard.

Although the lack of overwhelming, overboosted bass might not appeal to some people on this board, it is the closest thing to live music in a car, yet.

DYohn, this is right up your alley. You must hear it before David gets a wild hair and decides to do it over.

Dan, I too, like sealed enclosures, but this is a good as it gets.

Cheers, Bob. (tcss)

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There is no such thing as free installation!

Excellent! I am looking forward to hearing it.

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Support the12volt.com

Steven...

You asked about the (basically) power supply stability on the PDX1.1000. I have not actually done any tests, yet, but I can tell you for sure, (and this is really just from what I have HEARD, stability seems to be no issue at all.

I have heard no lack of control, no drop-out of total output... Nothing. I'll still be putting a current transformer on one of the leads to the woofer, and by measuring my peak current capacity, I'll be able to monitor the overall power. I'll post my findings, soon. (I might just do that for the mid-bass drivers, too!)

I'm pretty sure that even if there is a little bit of power supply instability, it'll be stiff enough for me, especially at the levels at which I use it! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Call 563-323-3337 and ask for Phillip.

This guy REALLY knows what he's talking about in the HO alternator world. Called him this morning, and he's starting a new 200A alternator for me! (A word to the sticker-shock-able... They're spendy, but they are custom wound at order, (3-4 weeks lead time for imports) and they are application specific!) It was about the same price as Ohio Gen, but a better warranty. 1 year unlimited, with lifetime rebulding for a minimal service charge of $50.00, as many times as you might need it. That's the best I've heard from all of the HO builders for a Civic.

170A hot rating, (200A cold) 120A at idle, all new windings, sealed bearings, (not bronze bushings) heavier diodes, better regulator, and it DROPS INTO MY CAR!

Here's their home page. They are the HOAlternator supplier for Unique Whips, not that THAT was the selling point for me...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Reviving this thread: I had the good fortune to spend a little time in this car tonight. This is without doubt one of the finest sounding installations I have ever heard. SQ comp level performance. Truly outstanding.

Good work Dave. And Bob, those doors are genuinely professional, fine quality work and you and your team are to be commended.

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Support the12volt.com

Glad to here you liked it David. Sorry I couldn't make the shindig as I am back in New Jersey. Big changes on the horizon, I will keep everyone filled in.

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There is no such thing as free installation!

Well David, I am sure you had a pleasant drive home with that system. I am very impressed. It's such a treat to have such great staging, and ever so lovely snappy mid-bass. With out a doubt, one of the finest systems I have heard!

The doors looked great, but I am not going to comment on the rear amp area, right now posted_image .

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dwarren wrote:

The doors looked great, but I am not going to comment on the rear amp area, right now .

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

But a hearty "thanks" to all of you guys! Dave, Dan, Bob, Mark... Seriously, I was hoping I hadn't blown it TOO much out of proportion, just because I thought it sounded as good as it does. Nice to hear that all of my efforts, time, and money DIDN'T go to waste! Your ears and your ideas helped me out in more than one case, so thanks for the use of those as well!

Imaging WAS a huge effort, with frequency response a close second. You guys know all the effort I have put into this, now I just have to leave it alone for a year to 18 months! ('Till the next "latest and greatest" shows up! posted_image

)

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote:

...('Till the next "latest and greatest" shows up! )

well, then the next latest and greatest will be exciting I am sure...

patiently waiting...

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Mark "Hamzter" Cinense
1991 Infiniti G20 w/JDM SR20DE
Eclipse CD8445
MTX Thunder 684
Polk DB6750
Polk DB6500
Optima Red Top in the Trunk

One last post, I think... (with photos to follow)

I got my new alternator today. 200A cold rating, 170A hot, 120A at idle, 500rpm turn-on. This thing is built like a swiss watch. The internals are OBVIOUSLY beefier than are the internals on the OEM alternator, the bearings are smooth, the whole thing just LOOKS duty.

Call the guys at American Power. The number is in this thread somewhere! One year warranty, and 50 dollar lifetime re-builds! They can supply up to 300A in GM cases, too!

I'll be posting comparison photos, once I get the OEM one out, and I can place it side-by-side.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

i see that i have missed quite a lot during my absence. Haemphyst, the system looks amazing, I only wish I could hear it in person (I guess I'll just have to dream about it for now). I can't wait to see pictures of the final completed install

Jack wants to see this David.

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There is no such thing as free installation!

haemph!

Pics pics!

Congrats on all the kudos.

I still run a variant of the front stage you designed for me wayyy back when.... the EQX died (developed some wierdo static in the right channel) a while back though and I ended up utilizing a new head unit to accomplish the same thing.

I'm using VR tweets up front as well.. what xover point did you select for them?

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

tcss] wrote:

Jack wants to see this David.

Tell me where and when... Give him my phone if he'd like to call me, and we'll set up a time and place!

sedate wrote:

haemph!
Pics pics!
Congrats on all the kudos.

Got 'em, just working on getting the up on photobucket, so I can link 'em!

sedate wrote:

I still run a variant of the front stage you designed for me wayyy back when.... the EQX died (developed some wierdo static in the right channel) a while back though and I ended up utilizing a new head unit to accomplish the same thing.

Sorry to hear that... I loved that EQ. Glad, though, that you are still happy with the front stage design!

sedate wrote:

I'm using VR tweets up front as well.. what xover point did you select for them?

Nice tweeters! Love 'em! I am set at 4K with a 48dB slope. IIANM, the passives for those come with a 3.5K and 12dB slop, so I'm pretty sure I will have LONG life from them!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."