what is phase shift?

Phase shift means many things.  In what context do you mean?

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When speakers are out of phase it means that when one is moving out, the other is moving in. They cancel each other out. When you have 2 sets of subs or 1 set of subs and 1 set of mids you must make sure they are moving in and out together. Some electronic crossovers have the feature to change the sub phase.

dboomer wrote:

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When speakers are out of phase it means that when one is moving out, the other is moving in. They cancel each other out. When you have 2 sets of subs or 1 set of subs and 1 set of mids you must make sure they are moving in and out together. Some electronic crossovers have the feature to change the sub phase.

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That is a FANTASTICALLY DRASTIC oversimplification, and that is not remotely complete. DYohn is far more correct in trying to get more information... You are simply describing an in-phase/out-of-phase (or 0° or 180°) situation - not "phase shift". There is SO much more to it than that. And while in-phase/out-of-phase is TECHNICALLY phase shift, that's not all there is to it.

Phase shift can be anywhere from 1 degree to 360 degrees out, or shifted, (with 180 degrees being a complete cancellation) but in a complex signal, like audio, with a device such as a loudspeaker - a device with a finite response time, not all frequencies will have the same phase shift. Ideally you would adjust your phase angle ONLY at the crossover point, so the drivers are properly phased AT THAT FREQUENCY. This is not easy to prevent or fix, involving very expensive components, (my UCSPros were 800 dollars each) and very time-consuming tuning (my tuning took about 2 weeks to make me happy with it) of the system. I know, as I have done it in my own car.

See here:


Fixing phase shift involves time delay. This makes the diaphragms in the system (again, at the crossover frequency) make the same frequency at exactly the same time, removing the phase shift at the "center frequency", and minimizing the destructive interference (damage) both above and below that "center frequency".

When the phase shift is removed or minimized, this is how you acheive a "perfect" frequency response. The sound power of the system becomes as flat as possible, preventing holes or peaks in the overall response of the system, and I think this is the answer to the OPs "better" question. REMOVING shift (i.e. delay) by ADDING delay (i.e. shift)... It doesn't seem right or sound logical, but that's exactly what is happening.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote:

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dboomer wrote:

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When speakers are out of phase it means that when one is moving out, the other is moving in. They cancel each other out. When you have 2 sets of subs or 1 set of subs and 1 set of mids you must make sure they are moving in and out together. Some electronic crossovers have the feature to change the sub phase.

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That is a FANTASTICALLY DRASTIC oversimplification, and that is not remotely complete. DYohn is far more correct in trying to get more information... You are simply describing an in-phase/out-of-phase (or 0° or 180°) situation - not "phase shift". There is SO much more to it than that. And while in-phase/out-of-phase is TECHNICALLY phase shift, that's not all there is to it.

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WOW...did I strike a nerve???

Probably not. Haemphyst is just extremely thorough about everything, and has been doing this stuff longer than most of the "rookies" have been able to eat without help from mommy's teet. If you would have quoted the rest of his post you would have seen that. We still don't know what the OP has going on, so until then we will not know if Haemphyst's typhoon of knowledge or your spring shower (not meant as an insult to your very valid information, just as a comparison of words to rain...) helped the OP more.

Haemphyst's post was very informative and accurate. The referrence to my post was childish. Why not add knowledge without bashing others input. I joined this forum to help and get helped...not compete to see who knows more.

Society in general is WAY too uptight. If you are offended by something said by someone that you don't know, that doesn't know you, and that you will probably never meet, then there are much bigger issues at hand. You offered information. You helped. You even helped first. Your information might have helped so much the the OP read it and it solved all of his problems. He may never need to reference this site again. Everybody that is registered here is looking to share information. I for one read every post, offer up what I can when I can, and have had my ideas shot down, ignored, and ridiculed. I have had entire posts deleted. (Come to think of it, this one probably won't see much daylight...)Somebody came along and offered more information, and referenced that your info was not complete. BIG DEAL. If that was the first time that your ego has been challenged, let me welcome you to the first day of kindergarden, because believe me, it will get worse. So what if Haemphyst is childish...I hear his system sounds awesome.

Are you guys talking about phase shift on amplifier subs? If so i was reading the manual of a hifonics amp and it said basically to put it quick and simple if your subs are in the trunk , behind you or  farthest speaker from you leave the setting at zero. If the subs are in the door panels or closer to you than the other speakers you can adjust it to your liking with or without expensive equipment.

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THE DUCE

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There are quirky personalities HERE!!!!?????!!! Say it ain't so Joe.

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There is no such thing as free installation!

sarcomax, it's good to hear your wise words again!

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

dboomer wrote:

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Haemphyst's post was very informative and accurate. The referrence to my post was childish. Why not add knowledge without bashing others input. I joined this forum to help and get helped...not compete to see who knows more.

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My apologies... I really didn't feel I was bashing you in any way. I was simply letting the OP know (perhaps, and apparently, a bit abruptly) that while you were not INcorrect, it was far more complex than a simple reversing of speaker leads. I also don't believe I was trying to compete, merely expound.

You'll find that I am perhaps, one of the "quirkiest" members here, and if I were really meaning to attack you, (which 1: I pretty rarely do overall, 2: I've never seen any need to attack you, and 3: in this case I truly WASN'T) you'd know it...

I will call BS if I see/smell it, but I wasn't in this case. I don't seem to always be able to type in the most politically correct of ways, sometimes coming off as "brisk" or potentially rude, but I assure you, I'm here for the same reasons you are... to learn from others and to teach through experiences, both of which I feel I do every time I post.

Additionally, sincere thanks for all the "dishes", everybody.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

That's OK...I should have shrugged it off and not responded. I have seen phase shift in mixing boards used to combine several racks of speakers/amps to adjust for the cleanest cymbal sounds in the center of the room. Might be a nice feature if you had a large RV.

I offered wise words? I need to stop drinking...

I was speaking in terms of on an amp actually...But yeah.

Since we've now established that Haemphyst is what we all really wish we could be (yeah, I retired my superman pajamas, for Haemphyst jammies)

let's sort out this guys problem... I'm so confused with his 2 responses that it's making me want to set myself on fire...

digdug... Are you asking us whether or not to mess with the phase shift knob on your amp? Or do you have some other piece of equipment with this function that has perked your interests.

BTW... Wormy's computer won't let him post on the 12volt anymore (unknown causes) but he's on the phone and in the same situation as me (wearing his Haemphyst jammies and being confused)

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Greed is for amateurs.

Disorder,chaos,anarchy now THAT is fun!!

Aw, shucks... I have my own jammies! That's when you KNOW you've made it!

DYohn asked the same question of digdug. But now... you have me wondering too!

jazzcustom131 wrote:

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BTW... Wormy's computer won't let him post on the 12volt anymore (unknown causes) but he's on the phone and in the same situation as me (wearing his Haemphyst jammies and being confused)

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As far as this little issue, try deleting ALL of your cookies and temporary internet files, defrag the drive, and try again. Close your browser, right-click the "E" on your desktop, and go to "Properties". In the middle of that window, click both of the "delete" buttons under the "Temporary Internet Files" section, and say yes to the confirmation dialog. The cookies'll go pretty quick, but the TIF may take several minutes, depending on your hardware, and how many files there actually are.

Once done with that, defrag your hard drive - <Start> - <Run> - <type dfrg.msc> - <Enter> I have no idea when the last time you did this was, or how often you do it, (I recommend no less frequently than once a week) but it COULD take up to about an hour, again, depending on hardware.

Reboot once that's finished. Try to log-in again.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."