Ferrari Engine Noise
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=98032
Printed Date: April 30, 2024 at 2:14 PM
Topic: Ferrari Engine Noise
Posted By: tcss
Subject: Ferrari Engine Noise
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 7:36 PM
OK I'm stumped here. Got our 2003 Ferrari Modena 360 up and running. Have a strange engine noise scenario. Definately Alternator whine.Still there when I pull the RCAs out of the amp.Goes away when I unplug the speaker leads. Is stronger out of the right side then the left even when I switch right and left RCAs. Cross overs are mounted in the doors. Equipment is Alpine 9887, Alpine PDX-4.100, Alpine PDX-1.600, Focal Polyglass 130 V1, JL 8" W3V3 (2). It's only the second time I've used Focal speakers and that car had alt. whine because the Focal cross over was next the ECU and or power wire. The amps are grounded to the car's battery ( passenger footwell ). I've fried my brains all afternoon, any ideas?
P.S. Just ran the amp to a test speaker outside the car and it still has noise.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Replies:
Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 9:21 PM
Wow thats a stumper, so basically you switched the rca's on the amp so the left was going to the right side and you still had right side noise, have you possibly tried switching the speaker wires on the amp itself to see if it is a right channel output problem with the amp? That seems to be the only thing you didn't document trying in your post.
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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 11:04 PM
Did you try to adjust the flux capicator and drive 88 MPH? Maybe that would help... Or how about firing the installer that put that system in the Ferrari in the first place, sounds like he does not know what he is doing. HA!
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Need to tell Ya All that Houndz805 was the installer on this job, and there lies the problem. I think we need to change the adaptor rencomeron!
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 11:44 PM
Lol... at least it looks good.
Too bad about those Focals though. Sounds like you are listening to music through fecal covered eardrums.
New name for Focal...Fe Cal. I think I just wized myself laughing.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 16, 2007 at 11:57 PM
The symptom you describe (RCA disconnected and/or switched) sounds like a speaker or speaker wire shorted to ground. Also look for my favorite PITA problem, a stray speaker wire strand touching the amp chassis. Could also be induction: where is the amp mounted (not much room inside a Modena, I know!) ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:06 AM
I thought of that too... I connected a test speaker outside or the car with new speaker wire ran directly to the amp. Still had Engine noise. I hope it is just the amplifier. Both power and ground are wired directly to the battery. Run is less than 8 feet long.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:13 AM
The amps are mounted upfront in the "trunk" sitting on the floor. Amps aren't mounted down yet figured we should call him first before I make any extra holes in his ferrari. I'm guessing some bracing and some industrial velcro should stick just fine to the carpeted floor.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:21 AM
I think it's just having a dog do the install instead of a human. No opposing thumbs, tough to run wires. I'll get him a bowl of Alpo tomorrow and we will start from scratch. Scratch, like dogs do. LOL
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:32 AM
All the previous ones i have experience with had the amps flushed in the floor, on mdf. In instances where there are multiple amps, one goes up facing the bumper. I would reconsider the ground location, not the actual battery, rather the ground point for the battery. -------------
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:39 AM
Thanks Dan, that's what I was going to look at first tomorrow.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Considering that the frame and most of the body is aluminum, that wouldn't make any difference.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 9:37 AM
Sounds like you're getting it down to two options: bad amp or electrical noise from the ingnition system. Any chance the car's not using supressor wire for spark? Cracked distributor cap or plug? Bruised wiring somewhere? You might have to add an old-school filter on the coil output... Sounds like time to pop that hatchback and get into the engine... ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 11:14 AM
And we thought we were done 10 days before our deadline! Now we find out the car has been in a wreck. The install Gods are punishing us for something. Dumb Dog.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 12:56 PM
tcss] wrote:
And we thought we were done 10 days before our deadline! Now we find out the car has been in a wreck. The install Gods are punishing us for something. Dumb Dog.
Well, look at it this way: If the wreck was BAD enough, you don't have to worry about the noise any more! BWAHAHAHA ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 1:05 PM
OK in 30 years I've never run acrossed this. Yesterday when we removed the RCAs the noise was still there, however since the sub box isn't ready yet we left the sub RCAs hooked up. Today when we pulled out all the RCAs the noise went away. So I made a set of RCAs where I isolated the shield grounds. When I grounded the deck side the noise went away. When I grounded the amp side the noise got worse. When I connected the shields (as a normal RCA would be) the noise went away and no I'm not touching the wires and using myself as a ground. So here's the best part, when I make the noise go away, and it is completely gone,if I move the volume control on the deck to zero some noise comes back. If I move it to 1, it's completely gone again. I'm going to try another deck. God I want to retire.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 1:08 PM
No Ham, the car's been in my shop the whole time. We found some welds in the door that were definately NOT factory. It was in a wreck before it got here. Think this might have screwed up the car's ground?
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: sarcomax
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 1:35 PM
The closest thing to a ferrari that I have worked on was an mr2 with a ferrari body kit, so I can't say for sure, but if you can't get it figured out just blame it on the body shop that did the repair work. It works for the stealerships, so why not for us common folk?
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Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 1:53 PM
That's great.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 2:09 PM
An MR2 with a Ferrari Body Kit??? Cool. I think I saw one in a dumpster at Planned Parenthood.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 3:56 PM
tcss]O wrote:
in 30 years I've never run acrossed this. Yesterday when we removed the RCAs the noise was still there, however since the sub box isn't ready yet we left the sub RCAs hooked up. Today when we pulled out all the RCAs the noise went away. So I made a set of RCAs where I isolated the shield grounds. When I grounded the deck side the noise went away. When I grounded the amp side the noise got worse. When I connected the shields (as a normal RCA would be) the noise went away and no I'm not touching the wires and using myself as a ground. So here's the best part, when I make the noise go away, and it is completely gone,if I move the volume control on the deck to zero some noise comes back. If I move it to 1, it's completely gone again. I'm going to try another deck. God I want to retire.
Sounds like a classic ground loop to me. What's the resistance between the deck chassis and amp ground? ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 6:54 PM
What should it read David?
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Bunch of other questions. Should the system be on? Should I be reading the differance between off and on? Should there be zero resistance when it's off? RCAs plugged in?
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: jmelton86
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 7:36 PM
I usually always run the HU ground to the heatsink (HU), then ground that to vehicle frame.
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2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 10:48 PM
Ideal ground-to-ground reading should be less than one ohm under all conditions., If it changes depending on on/off conditions of gear or engine, then either the gear is faulty or the car's electrical ground plane is poorly designed. In a Ferrari, I'd guess the latter first. They are made for go fast and handling, not electrical integrity. Ferrari or Lambo installations always remind me of boat installs.... ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 17, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Engine off, stereo off was 2.8 ohms. Ignition on, stereo off was 5.7 ohms. Ignition on, stereo on was 8.9 ohms. Engine on, stereo on was 28.1 ohms. Talk to me David.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 8:26 AM
Try running a dedicated ground cable from battery grounding point to amps ground and to HU ground, and disconnect the gear from the chassis. Float the amps on MDF. You may also need to isolate the HU from chassis by using plastic washers or Teflon plumber's tape on the mounting screws. Vehicles with composite bodies and aluminum chassis suck. Electrically, that is. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 9:34 AM
tcss] wrote:
Engine off, stereo off was 2.8 ohms. Ignition on, stereo off was 5.7 ohms. Ignition on, stereo on was 8.9 ohms. Engine on, stereo on was 28.1 ohms. Talk to me David.
Geez. Yeah, unless you can do some panel (electrical) bonding you're stuck with floating all of your components. I think that the differences between engine off and engine on (they should be WAY closer than that) also indicate that you are getting a fairly large AC component in there from something (ummm... "something". That's Latin for "alternator".)
I did one Ferarri, and I was done with the marque. Hated it! ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: hottwhyrd
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:21 PM
wonder what a salvage title farrari 360 is wurth? the only farrari ive worked on was a "FARRERO" its a sweet 89 fiero witha f-50 body kit! lololol lame
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:41 PM
Uhhh.... Pontiac stopped making the Fiero in 1988. Maybe Ferrari bought the molds?
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Sorry about that. Actually I put a Fiero body kit on the 360 and the noise was gone!
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:45 PM
Sorry about Houndz ( Remy ) he gets carried away sometimes. I smacked him and it's OK now.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 2:41 PM
hottwhyrd wrote:
wonder what a salvage title farrari 360 is wurth?
Depending on the year, hardtop or spyder, and the color, probably anywhere from $85K to $175K. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 3:42 PM
I've heard that a Ferarri is the safest car on the American road today!
Yeah, the tow truck takes the hit!
ROFLMAO
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 3:45 PM
haemphyst wrote:
I've heard that a Ferarri is the safest car on the American road today!
Yeah, the tow truck takes the hit!
ROFLMAO
No, wait... That's a Volvo! BWAHAHAHAHA ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 5:30 PM
Yes Dave, Volvos and Ferraris are often confused. Now put the staple gun down and back away from the air compressor, it will be alright as soon as the meds kick in... 
------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 18, 2007 at 6:05 PM
Just put in the box, hand stitched with original Ferrari leather, looks unreal. Amp rack with plexi false floor before the day is out. Pics to follow hopefully tomorrow. I'll let the two Daves know about the noise remedy.
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 12:55 AM
houndz805 wrote:
Just put in the box, hand stitched with original Ferrari leather, looks unreal. Amp rack with plexi false floor before the day is out. Pics to follow hopefully tomorrow. I'll let the two Daves know about the noise remedy.
I believe it is against the forum rules to tease us like that. If it isn't, it really should be.
Posted By: jmelton86
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 1:00 AM
Steven Kephart wrote:
houndz805 wrote:
Just put in the box, hand stitched with original Ferrari leather, looks unreal. Amp rack with plexi false floor before the day is out. Pics to follow hopefully tomorrow. I'll let the two Daves know about the noise remedy.
I believe it is against the forum rules to tease us like that. If it isn't, it really should be.
I think it is without pics!  ------------- 2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001
Posted By: houndz805
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 1:52 PM
OK everything is done, but we still have the noise. Here's the latest. Definately alt. whine. Equipment is completely isolated from the car. Still is there when the RCAs are unplugged. Cutting the shields on the RCAs when they are hooked up makes it worse. Speaker leads are all good. Cannot find the Battery ground point, am afraid to disconnect the battery for fear of needing to flash program the car's computer.Am thinking about an old school choke on the power lead. Anybody know how to make one of these? Any other ideas?
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It was already broken, but I made sure it could never be fixed again.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 2:27 PM
Choke won't do it... You can try, though. All a choke is, is a wire wrapped around an iron core. The wire has to be of the same gauge or larger than the wire you are inserting into. Use a piece of allthread with washer and nut, both ends. The more iron (or steel) you have in the core, the more inductance you will get for a given wire length.
If it is definitely alternator whine, I'd still suspect some sort of AC on the alternator's output, indicating a bad diode in the bridge. (You'll need an o-scope to detect it if there is any there...) Bob, I'm coming to Paso Robles tomorrow, I can make the extra short little trip with my 'scope if you'd like to give it a shot. (Let me know ASAP, and I'll plan to come over earlier...) If you are careful, you SHOULD be able to replace the battery (with the engine running or not) without ever disconnecting the actual battery leads. Have you tried a new battery? Also, caps DO filter, and if you haven't tried a cap in the system yet, I suppose you could go there...
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 2:35 PM
Like i said earlier in this discussion, you may need to replace spark plug wires with suppressor wires, and maybe change the coil. Also, some Ferrari's have a battery isolator between the battery negative and the chassis, which opens after the car starts and will cause a horrible ground loop if you connect to the battery negative. I don't recall if the 360 has one of these, but it's why I suggested you need to either ground to the battery chassis connection directly OR to the alternator case directly. Also, if it's a 2001 there was a recall for defective engine ground straps, so check that out as well. Italian cars are TONS o fun. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Thanks David and David. Doubt it's wires or plugs because it's definately alt whine as opposed spark noise. Ham what time could you make it by? My shop is actually going to be closed Sat. because I'm going to Laguna Seca for the American Le Mans race. I could wait and leave a little later. Let me know.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 4:11 PM
I see... tix to Laguna, and no mention whatsoever... nice... 
I could be there by 9-ish, earlier if really necessary. I had no other plans than hanging out in the area and having lunch or dinner with a friend. Except maybe that wine thing at Rosilez... <grin> ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 4:24 PM
Was hoping to leave here around 8:00 AM. Will you still be in town Sunday morning?
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 19, 2007 at 5:08 PM
No, unfortunately, I have to be in Fresno at 6AM. How 'bout this? I'm meeting my friend for breakfast at Margie's in Paso - ya know, right at the end of 46 - at 8am. I'll bring it with me, and you could pick it up from me there. You could then use it, and the next time I come over, I'll pick it up from ya...
Lemme know how that sounds!
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 20, 2007 at 7:31 AM
Well, Bob... you didn't answer, but I'll have it with me, if you'd like to stop and grab it!
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 22, 2007 at 8:22 PM
Well today was another big giant waste of time. Jack Finks was over Friday Ham and he pretty much made the same suggestions you did. First we ran a piece of 4 ga. from the frame where the engine is mounted to the ground D-Block. Nothing. Then we switched out the Alpine PDX-4.100 for a JL 300/4. When it was hooked up to the door speakers, it still had noise. But when we hooked it up to an outboard test speaker the noise went away! Tomorrow we are going to hook up the door speakers to an amp in our display board ( eliminate the car amp ) and if it still has noise I'm ripping out those %#@&$%# Focals and putting in some JL Vrs. Also hounds used your scope Ham and he thinks he saw some AC. He will PM you tomorrow. ARRRGGGG......... ------------- There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: jfinks
Date Posted: October 22, 2007 at 9:52 PM
tcss]B wrote:
t when we hooked it up to an outboard test speaker the noise went away! Tomorrow we are going to hook up the door speakers to an amp in our display board ( eliminate the car amp ) and if it still has noise I'm ripping out those %#@&$%# Focals and putting in some JL Vrs. Also hounds used your scope Ham and he thinks he saw some AC. He will PM you tomorrow. ARRRGGGG.........
Idea... what happens if you isolate the focals from chasis or can you? Yes I know what a pain it is to get into those doors...but you said the noise went away when you floated the spaekers by going to the outside speakers...thin ruber gasket between the speaker frame drill piolet holes outside the screw holes and run double zip ties to hold them in place....just a thought... I'll duck under cover for suggesting zip ties but they are non-conductive unless you have plastic screws. Or Amp used to make amplifier isolators that had a machine screw and the nut was surrounded in ruber. It was basicly a ruber T-Nut; I have some here that I use to mount my amps on the plexyglass. I have no idea if they make them any more...
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:23 PM
Well here we are, another day in Ferrari hell. Hooked up the door speakers to our PDX-4.150 in our display board. No noise. So that says the problem is the amp or amp location. Completely contradicts the test speaker not having noise on the JL 300/4. Got a 5 farad hybrid cap coming in this afternoon. Fingers are crossed.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 24, 2007 at 11:05 PM
YESSSSS! Just installed a $400 10 farad ( yes 10 farad ) Stinger hybrid cap and THE NOISE IS GONE!!!!! 9:00 PM Pacific time and the car needed to be ready tomorrow at 5:00PM. Thank you install Gods!
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 25, 2007 at 12:42 AM
Caps are VERY good filters of AC. This confirms my suspicions of a dying alternator!
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 25, 2007 at 12:58 AM
And thank you Hamfist.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: October 25, 2007 at 1:41 AM
You're welcome, Bob! I'll be over again, in about 2 weeks!
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: October 25, 2007 at 8:34 AM
Wow, that proves cap's are good for something at least.
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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 26, 2007 at 11:56 AM
Sounds like time for a new/rebuilt alternator, or at least a new rectifier bridge. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: jmelton86
Date Posted: December 11, 2007 at 9:01 PM
The cap is just going to kill the alt more quickly, right? Or should this thread be closed because the car is out of your shop (permanently, b/c of the trouble)? ------------- 2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: December 12, 2007 at 2:27 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I just stopped having Ferrari nightmares! Actually the car left the shop trouble free and I don't think the stereo will ever be played loud enough to effect the alternator.
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There is no such thing as free installation!
Posted By: jmelton86
Date Posted: December 12, 2007 at 7:29 PM
tcss]I wrote:
don't think the stereo will ever be played loud enough to effect the alternator.
That's reasuring. ------------- 2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001
Posted By: killa101
Date Posted: December 12, 2007 at 9:15 PM
So no pictures...... 
Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:54 PM
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