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Ground Q/A sticky

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Forum Name: Car Audio - Hot Topics
Forum Discription: Stickied topics from our car audio forum. Car Audio FAQs. Read First!
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=37762
Printed Date: October 19, 2021 at 3:47 AM


Topic: Ground Q/A sticky

Posted By: forbidden
Subject: Ground Q/A sticky
Date Posted: August 19, 2004 at 6:12 PM

Post your questions related to ground / noise issues here. Industry professionals and educated users will reply to these types of topics here. This will greatly reduce the amount of searching done and the repititous questions as well. It will help greatly to post the make / model of all of your equipment as well as the vehicle it is in. Post what you have tried and the results as well. A lot of noise issues are a process of elimination that when one reads what you have done, that may solve their problem.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.



Replies:

Posted By: xavierny25
Date Posted: August 19, 2004 at 6:20 PM

question, is it ok to ground 3 amps (all 8 gauge all 2 feet long)to a distrabution block and ground it with 4 gauge also at 2 feet?i have 2 kickers 250.2 and a 350.2 and last but not least a sony mono amp at 800 wattts.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: August 19, 2004 at 6:25 PM

Yes this is fine to do. I will leave out the particulars on grounding for now. If you have specific questions or problems that arise post them up and they will be answered. Once we have compiled the info for the main grounding topic, go through your system again and address the issues that may be specific to your installation.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: August 20, 2004 at 9:28 PM

Hi guys. I recently had my system professionally installed. Cosmetically they did a great job. Unfortunately, i have an awful alternator whine.  I have only had the system running for 1 wk yet i cant stand to listen to it because of the noise!!! aaaaaaggggggggghhhhh!

Anyway, i did a few tests. im fairly certain (please speak up if im off base) that the ground loop is entering via the HU ground which is grounded up front through the original factory ground.  Im assuming this is through the wiring harness?? anyway ive isolated it to the HU ground because......

 1. I replaced the head unit (sony cdx c910) with new eclipse cd8443.  ground loop persists

 2. I patched my ipod into the eclipse via the AUX input.  same ground loop.

 3. i disconnected the eclipse rca output and directly patched my ipod into my line driver. The line driver normally takes the output of the HU via 18 inch RCA cable and converts it to balanced XLR outputs whihc is routed to the back into xover, amps, etc. After patching in my ipod (headphone out) , Viola! the alternator whine disappeared.

Am i correct in believing the HU ground is the cause of the ground loop.  The remainder of the system is grounded in the back (3 amps, xover, etc).  I know install rule 101 says to ground all compnents to a SINGLE spot.  I am assuming that this includes the HU. Nevertheless, i am extremely disappointed in my installer.   1000$ install and i have alternator whine??? 

So, i rescheduled to have the installer go back and run a ground cable from the HU to the back where the ground distribution block is located. 

So what do ya'll think??    I am well aware that car audio is frought with noise but i feel they should at least ground the system properly .  Did they follow standard install technique and i am being too demanding???   Is my HU ground the reason for the loop? Thank you for your input.

Btw, car = 1997 civic



-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: August 20, 2004 at 9:37 PM
As I am still at work and currently having trouble installing ((happens when you try and cut off your finger by accident - oops) also makes typing difficult), I'll answer some of this until my next install shows up. Have you tried to bypass the line driver yet? Plug the rca outputs of the Eclipse direct into the amplifiers. Did the installer check the ground return resistance? Have muting plugs been tried? Install is here, gotta go, If I have time I'll post back later or maybe one of the guys will answer.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: August 20, 2004 at 10:54 PM

hi rob! thanks for your help.!

yes, i have bypassed the line driver and the whine persisted.  also, the gains on the line driver and amplifiers are minimized.  i bypassed the line driver by plugging rca's directly from HU into xover. 

i could use the HU's xover and bypass the line driver and tube xover and patch an rca cable directly from the HU to amp, but havent pursued once noise disappeared swapping eclipse source for ipod soucre. i know the ipod is not part of the car's electrical circuit obviously, but the line driver, xover, and amps are connected to the electrical system; so am i wrong in assuming that they are not the source of the loop. since i 'removed' the HU from the signal chain, isnt this the culprit???

no, the installer did not check ground resistance.



-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: auex
Date Posted: August 20, 2004 at 11:25 PM
Perhaps someone could do a write up on how to make muting plugs.

-------------
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 12:24 AM
Bypass the crossover and the line driver and go direct from cd to amplifiers. Does the noise still persist?

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: auex
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 1:30 AM
I agree, you have alot of equiptment inline of the audio path.

-------------
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.




Posted By: flynntech
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 8:04 AM

This is just my opinion so don't take it for gospel, running a ground wire all the way to the back is impractiacal. The only thing that makes any sense here is that all grounds should be at the same potential, zero volts.

Yes, the factory wiring is rarely in any kind of shape to supply clean power to the HU, this is common.  Ground the HU to the body right about where the HU is, if you have to run a ground directly to the firewall or floor, that's fine. Also, bring 12 + directly from the battery, fused as always.

A muting plug is simply an RCA plug with the two conductors shorted together. Anyone can do this with a pig tail, by splicing the wiring with a crimp. Soldering the pins together is better.

Just remember: DO NOT CONNECT THE MUTING PLUGS TO THE OUTPUT!!! 

The only purpose of the muting plug is to zero the input signal at the line level INPUTS......It will short the output stages of the HU or whatever else, since it is indeed a shorted plug.





Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 4:33 PM

Ok Rob......here is where im at.........

i followed your suggestion and bypassed the line driver and crossover.   i used RCAs directly out of HU to the front stage amp and DEAD SILENCE ...well except for the music!  I then bypassed the line driver only (RCAs HU to xover)(xover XLRs to front stage amp) and whine+noise floor returns!

taking this information into account with previous knowledge that iPod source --> line driver --> xlr --> xover --> xlr --> front stage amp also = dead silence.................is there a "loop" between the xover and HU?  if one or the other is taken out of the signal chain, all is well. if both present = unlistenable.

another tidbit,  the HU rear outputs --> rca --> ads 250mx --> rear fill has never had whine+noisefloor

i didnt perform the install, but it is a very safe bet all amps and xover are grounded same spot in trunk through distribution ground block (same should go for power dist block).

So..........any new suggestions???  thanks for everyone's input!!  this noise issue is killing me!!!

jason 



-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 6:31 PM

Processors are usually a breeding ground for noise for the most part. Try as well bypassing the crossovers. Head ----> line driver ----> amps. What happens? With a Eclipse like you have that line driver is probably not even necessary (unless I am missing something). I would be looking very carefully at that crossover myself.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 7:24 PM

well..........i could scrap the xover.  if i could solve the problem without getting rid of it would be preferred method.  Simply because it matches the amp perfectly (cosmetically) and the glowing tubes are sweet.   and b/c without the xover the whole balanced xlr system (read = unique) braggin rights are lost. its like tearing the personality out of the install. however, the most important thing is clean sound obviously.  so  why do you think the xover doesnt add any noise or whine when the ipod is the source and the HU is bypassed???  it doesnt make any sense to me that this is occuring.

regarding the line driver, it does make a huge difference. the eclipse advertises 8V but occurs at high volumes. the line driver goes between 10 - 16 volts depending on the gains (i set them low) AND they convert the signal from RCA to XLR. and they add 'tube warmth' characteristics to the sound.



-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 7:47 PM
there is one up for grabs on ebay. maybe i should grab it.

-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 7:52 PM
What should be the maximum resistance for the ground wire?

-------------
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 8:22 PM
The ideal potential difference should be 0 ohms. Realisticly, that is impossible since component parts, vehicle design, and cable diameter / materials dictate as to what you obtain as to resistance.

Generally speaking, if you can obtain 1 ohm and below, you are doing alright.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .




Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: August 21, 2004 at 8:51 PM

Ok, great, I am reading 1ohm through the cable at the amps. So, all is good.

  Thanks for the info.



-------------
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: August 22, 2004 at 1:27 PM
Is it ok to solder a ground to the car, or should I bolt it on? Its a ground for a amp.

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Posted By: auex
Date Posted: August 22, 2004 at 3:05 PM
Solder probably isn't a good idea, you could weld it though. Bolting the ground is going to be the easiest best ground.

-------------
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: August 22, 2004 at 4:55 PM
Well I soldered one of my grounds, seems to be workin so far, adn it couldnt be any worse then the way I had it before lol. But the ground wire have for my speaker amp isnt copper, and the solder I have is crappy, so I couldnt get it to stick....so it looks like a bolt for this one.

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Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:16 PM

Hey guy's,

     One question, Does grounding the rca cables help to removed atl. noise?



-------------
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: auex
Date Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:31 PM
racer427 wrote:

Hey guy's,
    One question, Does grounding the rca cables help to removed atl. noise?

Grounding the shielding of the rca specifically, outer conductor.
It depends on what exactly is causing the engine noise. It usually is the first step I take when trying to eliminate engine noise.

-------------
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.




Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:34 PM
Sometimes it does, sometimes it wont. If the noise is being induced, you are relying alot on the shielding / quality of the RCA connectors.

Regardless of all the *Golden Ears* hype about quality RCA's. The only reason I spend the extra hard earned $$$ is to ensure that shielding is there, just for that particular reason.

That is what you should be paying for...

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .




Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:35 PM
The rca's that I am using are medium quality that came with the install kit that I bought. They are run on the opposite side of the car from the power but all come together behind a big panel at the back of the van. I have done my best to keep the power lines routed away from the speaker and rca's.

-------------
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: racer427
Date Posted: August 25, 2004 at 7:55 PM
Ok, what is  the proper way to ground them?

-------------
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds




Posted By: TubeDriveRMD
Date Posted: September 14, 2004 at 10:24 PM
Thanks to all for the advice.........I FINALLY have a dead quiet car!! the alternaor whine is gone. after 7 weeks, i can now enjoy my system. As suspected, bad ground location = ground loop. All it took was a competent installer who knows his sh*t. thanks to all at tweeter, you guys rock!!!



-------------
Eclipse cd8443
Phaze LD1 line driver
Phaze LDX-23 Xover
Butler1500 TubeDriver (2)
Dynaudio 220
Boston Pro 10.4LF
Zu Cable balanced XLR cables
Kimber Kable speaker wire




Posted By: djmoose
Date Posted: September 21, 2004 at 2:50 AM
Ok, all great info here...but I'm still stumped. Here's my situation:

Brand new 2004 Aztek
Pioneer AVH-P6600DVD Head Unit
Alpine Type-X SPX-177A 6 3/4" Comps
Kicker Round Solo-Barics (12")
Hifonics Thor Series VIII Amps (2)
Coustic XM-3 Crossover
Phoenix Gold TDD-5 Relay System
4 ga power from battery to amps & assoc.
Stinger fused power Distro block (4>8 ga)
8 ga ground from each amp (and DD5) to sanded chasis grounds. (each measured .3 ohms)
XM-3 crossover is grounded to the DD5.
2 sets of Stinger Hyper series rcas from HU to XM-3

First, I had the HU installed and playing through the factory speakers and everything sounded FINE. (via the HU's amp)

I install the amps, and have some system noise. First of all, I have a TAD bit of alt wine...but it's not too loud...and defintitely can't be heard even with music at low volumes.

The big problem is that I have a constant pitched humm that comes on as soon as the amps turn on. (I can tell because of the delayed turn on) It's the same volume at any volume setting on the HU...and becomes louder and softer with the gain on the highs amp...however, the loudest I've ever had the gain is 50%...so it's not a matter of the gains beign too high. (4V pre-outs on the HU)

As SOON as I disconnect the RCAs from the crossover (with everything on) the sound goes away.

Here's how've I've tried to fix it:

I've run a ground wire back to where everything else is grounded (amps & crossover in the back) and grounded the HU there. (just had the wire on the seats...just testing. Nothing changed. Humm is still there.

I did the same thing with an extra set of RCAs...just running from the deck over the seats to the crossover...and same thing.

I made muting RCA connectors...hooked them up to the crossover...turned everything on...and NO NOISE.

So, looks like it's the head unit...since there was still noise with different RCAs running trough the cabin. (also moved it around to see if it might also be hear something)

During these checks...I noticed that when the engine is off...the only time there is humm is when the parking lights or headlights are on. However it's always there when the engine is on. Does this mean it's the car's electrical system?

I've also run seperate power and grounds for the HU and no dice.

Here is another thing that MIGHT contribute. Since it's a new GM (Pontiac) I needed to use the Databuss II adapter for the chimes...and it also works with turning the deck on and off as well. This has it's own power and ground...and is hooked up into the harness as well...so the HU is pretty much sharing power and ground with this as well.

Any thoughts?

I've done the ground parts of the Big 3

Thanks for any help,
moose

--------------------
'Technics'
2004 Pontiac Aztek
https://members.sounddomain.com/dj_moose




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 1:11 PM
Where are the amplifiers grounded to?

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: djmoose
Date Posted: September 22, 2004 at 8:59 PM
There are two bolts about 6-7 inches away from each amp. The bolts are in holes that are in the actual floor of the truck. (you can see the road through the holes.

Quick update...I guess the gains were up a bit too high...with the gains on the Thor for the highs all the way down...the humm is almost gone...however, there is a TAD bit of humm still there...not to mention that the highs are a tad bit softer now. So, I'm going to try to groud the amps together...however that means that the sub amp will have a ground wire about 15 inches long. Maybe if I just run another ground wire between the two bolts...that will help.

Also, I just ordered a audiocontrol matrix to up the voltage on the pre-outs. Hopefully this will lower the noise floor even more.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 23, 2004 at 12:11 PM
Do you have a meter? A single ground point for your amps is going to be a good thing. Using a factory bolt hole might not be such a hot idea though. Don't worry about your ground wire being too long, it is more important that it is the right guage for the length as compared to keeping it short.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: djmoose
Date Posted: September 23, 2004 at 10:22 PM

forbidden wrote:

Do you have a meter? A single ground point for your amps is going to be a good thing. Using a factory bolt hole might not be such a hot idea though. Don't worry about your ground wire being too long, it is more important that it is the right guage for the length as compared to keeping it short.

Yup, both points have been measued.... .2 and .3 Paint has been scrapped off around the holes as well. Power to the amps is via 8 ga...and so is the grounds.

Just to make sure, what's the best way to measure ground resistance? I measured it back to the neg post on the battery...using 8 ga power wire as a "long lead" persay. Then connected the ground lead to the 8 ga wire, and then the pos lead to the point on the chasis. (where the amps are grounded now) and got .2 and .3 ohm respectively. Was this the correct way to measure? Do we also have to take in consideration the resistance of the long power wire I used back to the battery? (to the neg post)





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 27, 2004 at 1:03 PM

Did you make sure that the ground wire was disconnected from the amplifier? I would usually disconnect it from the amp and meter how you did. Yes you should also meter the length of extension cable used and subtract it from what the measurement is.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: September 28, 2004 at 7:30 PM

Just along the same lines as this whole grounding thing, the one tech today did a brand new Chev DIesel and the factory ground was showing a resistance of 66 ohms. How nice is that. Nothing like making our job easier.



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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: djmoose
Date Posted: September 30, 2004 at 11:48 PM

Just an update...the source for all the noise was the old school coustic xm-3 crossover. Just on a hunch, I enabled the high pass filter on the front RCAs on my HU...and hooked them directly up the amp for the highs...

crystal clear....no noise WHATSOEVER....alternator whine...GONE...hum....GONE...

Whew!! 





Posted By: dirtydreams4x4
Date Posted: October 07, 2004 at 2:25 AM
Rob,  You said that grounding to a factory bolt hole isn't such a great idea, why is that? Where is the ideal place to ground amp(s)?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: October 07, 2004 at 12:12 PM
Most factory bolt holes are desinged to hold something in place, not to provide an efficient current transfer. In most cases the nut that the bolt threads into is tack welded into place, thus it is a very poor path for current to flow through. The ground is the most important line there is, if you are causing the electrical system to work harder by running the ground through bad points with a higher resistance on the chassis, the entire system will suffer.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: dirtydreams4x4
Date Posted: October 07, 2004 at 2:53 PM

Thanks Rob, that makes sense. I have my amp grounded to a bolt hole under my rear seat(not a seat bolt, smaller bolt (1 of 10) holding a bracket to the body, and everything seems to be working fine. I sanded all the paint off of the metal that the ring terminal touches, is this setup ok? I'm going to be adding another amp and I plan to ground them both to this same point,  but not if it could cause problems.

Thanks for the info!





Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: October 28, 2004 at 5:52 PM
Ok guys. I've read enough of this grounding crap. Taking a wire from whatever you want to ground and attaching it to the frame(Bare metal) is not a real ground.

To completely ground your system, you should hook up a ground wire from the part and connect it to the negative terminal on the battery. This will give you a complete/Proper ground.

It is a common mis-conception that the ground and negative wires are different. This is not true. They are one and the same.

BTW, I am an electrician. The ground and negative on a 110~130V house lead to the same place. It is just because of the Electrical Code that these two wires are kept separate until they reach the breaker/fuse box.


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Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: October 29, 2004 at 10:23 PM

Poormanq45 wrote:

Ok guys. I've read enough of this grounding crap. Taking a wire from whatever you want to ground and attaching it to the frame(Bare metal) is not a real ground.

To completely ground your system, you should hook up a ground wire from the part and connect it to the negative terminal on the battery. This will give you a complete/Proper ground.

It is a common mis-conception that the ground and negative wires are different. This is not true. They are one and the same.

BTW, I am an electrician. The ground and negative on a 110~130V house lead to the same place. It is just because of the Electrical Code that these two wires are kept separate until they reach the breaker/fuse box.

The frame is connected to the negative terminal on the battery and therefore if you ground something to the frame it will be grounded (if it wasn't a ground then the amp would not turn on, or if the resistance between battery and alternator ground and the frame is to high then the amp wouldn't turn on either). Now the frame is not always the ideal ground like said above. If you are installing an amp in any GM vehicle you should probobly run a ground wire directly to the battery (or at least use a DMM to see what the resistance is to make sure that it isn't above 5 or 6 ohms).



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Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: October 30, 2004 at 5:18 PM
I just don't think the frame of a vehicle conducts electricity well enough.

I ran 2 6 guage wires to the back of my car, one on each side. Whereever I need to ground something, I run a short span of wire from the part to be grounded to the closest 4 guage ground wire. This insures a complete ground.

Also, with my method, you don't have to worry about your conection to the frame corroding.

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Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: November 02, 2004 at 10:15 PM

I don't know if anyone added this yet, , i don't have time to read all the posts.  But iv kinda done some ground testing.

What i have noticed on 75% or more occasions is that when an amplifier is grounded just enough for it to work, , but still not properly, , you will get constant static shocks when exiting your vehicle.

You get this when you don't scrape away paint, but the ground is just enough from the screw itself , or when its rusted.

So if your getting zapped often, ,time to clean your grounds.



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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.




Posted By: gAmAX2K1gle
Date Posted: November 03, 2004 at 1:11 PM

First off-
I've been reading on the board for a couple of months doing research on my car alarm install and have found a lot of great information. I just haven't had a solid free weekend to do the install (Clifford Matrix RS2 - bought over a year and a half ago - just getting around to installing it, lol). I've searched regarding this problem but haven't found anything that exactly matches my issue.

My problem:
I have a 2001 Maxima GLE (viewable on my homepage). I recently bought a 20G iPod for it. I also bought the dock and installed it in the ashtray and ran a cable (line out to male RCA) from it to an FM Modulator. The FM Modulator sucked since it got static and the .mp3 sounded like crap.

To fix this, I bought the Soundgate AUXNISS ( https://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=610 ) that plugs into the back of my Bose HU. The cable from the iPod dock plugs into the Soundgate box and the .mp3 now sound like I was playing a CD. At the same time, I installed the PAC AOEM-NIS2 so I could add an additional amp and sub in the trunk. That works fine and the sub sounds awesome.

However, I have a horrible alternator whine/engine noise ONLY when playing the iPod.  This is only when the engine is running. The Soundgate box does not have any grounding wires nor does the iPod/dock. Is there a way to ground either? The Soundgate box is powered via the Alpine amp in the trunk. Should I try to power the Soundgate box a different way? The amp seems to be grounded ok, though I may move it to a different location. I've had quite a bit of discuss on my Maxima board but we aren't installers and can't think of the reason. One guy suggestion ground loop isolators, but from I've read on here, those only seem to band-aid a problem rather than isolating and fixing it.

Any help/info would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks,
Eric
www.maxima.org/forums
"GaMax97GLE"





Posted By: goldrodeo
Date Posted: November 11, 2004 at 5:21 AM

Eric,
It appears that the Soundgate AUXNISS https://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=610  has a ground and a 12V+ wire.
1. Leave everything as is and power the iPod from it's own power supply --note the results
2. If you hear no noise after the above, then try powering the iPod from a different location in the car
3. if #1 fails, then try grounding the AUXNISS to another location (Soundgate does not recommend grounding this unit to the ground wire on the radio harness).

Good luck

Quiet!

 



-------------
Quiet!
A stupid question is the one you never ask.




Posted By: gAmAX2K1gle
Date Posted: November 11, 2004 at 2:17 PM
goldrodeo wrote:

Eric,
It appears that the Soundgate AUXNISS https://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=610  has a ground and a 12V+ wire.
1. Leave everything as is and power the iPod from it's own power supply --note the results
2. If you hear no noise after the above, then try powering the iPod from a different location in the car
3. if #1 fails, then try grounding the AUXNISS to another location (Soundgate does not recommend grounding this unit to the ground wire on the radio harness).

Good luck


There is one red and one yellow wire from the AUXNISS that (per the supplied instrustions) are supposed to be connected to +12V, which I thought was odd. So one of these wires should be a ground wire? The only other wires from the AUXNISS are part of a harness that plugs into the changer port on the back of the head unit. I'll look over everything again.

Thanks.





Posted By: gAmAX2K1gle
Date Posted: November 12, 2004 at 3:19 PM
gAmAX2K1gle wrote:

goldrodeo wrote:

Eric,
It appears that the Soundgate AUXNISS https://www.discountcarstereo.com/detail.aspx?ID=610  has a ground and a 12V+ wire.
1. Leave everything as is and power the iPod from it's own power supply --note the results
2. If you hear no noise after the above, then try powering the iPod from a different location in the car
3. if #1 fails, then try grounding the AUXNISS to another location (Soundgate does not recommend grounding this unit to the ground wire on the radio harness).

Good luck


There is one red and one yellow wire from the AUXNISS that (per the supplied instrustions) are supposed to be connected to +12V, which I thought was odd. So one of these wires should be a ground wire? The only other wires from the AUXNISS are part of a harness that plugs into the changer port on the back of the head unit. I'll look over everything again.

Thanks.


Well, I just got an email back from tech support @ Soundgate and both the yellow and red wires are power wires. One is constant power, one is switched on power. The gound is in the 12-pin harness that goes to the HU, so they share a common ground.

Anyone know how to isolate the ground wire in the 12-pin changer harness? (2001 Nissan Maxima GLE w/ Bose)





Posted By: uthinkuknoaudio
Date Posted: November 14, 2004 at 7:51 PM

Rule of thumb : Keep grounds less than or equal to 3 feet. No need to say more !



-------------
"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 14, 2004 at 7:57 PM
Actually that is not entirely accurate. It is the assumed correct way of doing things but leaves much of the equation left blank. I'll post up on this at a later date.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: uthinkuknoaudio
Date Posted: November 14, 2004 at 8:00 PM

My momma always said that there was exceptions to every rule - lol



-------------
"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: November 14, 2004 at 8:14 PM

In this case it is called resistance on the ground return. It equates to this. You eat a sub and then someone sews your buttcheeks shut, get the drift? Electricity is an algebra equation, what you do to one side you must do to the other. It is not about the size of the metal used in the chassis of the vehicle, it still must be connected to the ground of the battery. It is about the resistance through the chassis, it's crappy weld joints, glued together unibody panels, tack welded seatbelt bolts (and similar) that all add up to a high ground return resistance.

The proper way to ground a system is to ensure that the ground return resistance is as low as possible, best to be below 1/2 ohm. If the return cannot be made to co-operate by means of threats, thrown tools or all adequate and proper grounding procedures (known as the BIG 3), then it is best to run the ground direct to the battery.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: davidwh2
Date Posted: November 23, 2004 at 7:39 PM

hey whats going on.   i just installed a Cd player and amp in my truck.  ive had everything hooked up for a week.  there wasnt the first problem.  tonight on the way home my amp stopped working.  i checked the fuse, it was fine, even put a new one in.  i checked all the cables, nothing is lose or disconnected, i even pulled my cd played to make sure the blue remote wire wasnt disconnected. 

after all this i noticed that when i start my truck, the amp turns on for a second then turns back off, i checked the ground and when i touch it to the ground it comes on but goes back off, so im not sure what it could be. a side note:  the amp wasnt hot, no wire terminals werent burned or melted. soo i dont know.  any help will be appreciated.



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-dwh2-




Posted By: davidwh2
Date Posted: November 24, 2004 at 9:32 AM
hey i posted this as a ground question, because thats what a couple ppl told me could be wrong, so thats why its in this section. -dwh2-

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-dwh2-




Posted By: thepyrofish
Date Posted: November 26, 2004 at 2:01 PM
davidwh2: try checking the speaker wires coming out of the amp, that they aren't touching each other, or grounded out.




Posted By: Muffinman
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:04 PM

[QUOTE
BTW, I am an electrician. The ground and negative on a 110~130V house lead to the same place. It is just because of the Electrical Code that these two wires are kept separate until they reach the breaker/fuse box.
[/QUOTE]

I hate to tell you but a house has a nuetral not a Negative wire. the Nuetral is a return path for AC current which carries a low voltage return to the panel. If the circuit is shorted it will carry the full current back to the breaker and tripp it. The ground wire can be on the same nuetral bar but to have a isolated circuit it must be bonded and seperate from the nuetral. The first means of service has to be bonded. The code requires this to keep from burning your house down or killing somone.





Posted By: bbusbee
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 12:53 PM

Triple Amp Grounding?

I am about to add a third amp to my system but I can't locate it close to the other two.  Is it alright to ground the amp using 2 to 3 feet of grounding cable so that I can connect it to the same grounding point as the other two amps? 





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 3:13 PM
Yes, give it a try.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: jazzcustom131
Date Posted: December 04, 2004 at 6:05 PM

I'm in the high pitch alternator whine boat as well.

Pioneer Deh-p4600

Planet Audio 400x4

Roadmaster 6x9 (2); 5 1/4(2) 1' Dome Tweeters(2)

Now, I know that's cheap stuff, but I did it to prove a point, that it ain't gotta be expensive to sound good. I use to have a Pioneer deh-1500 for an HU. I also had A Boss Riot series 850 watt monoblock amp pushin two Pyramid Power Pro 12" subs. I currently do not have that amp, or those subs in my truck. Ever since I installed my new HU, I have had a whine issue that is horrendous. I didn't change the way any wires were run, with the exception of running the 2nd pair of rca lines to the Planet. All grounds die at same point, so what's the deal??





Posted By: furflier
Date Posted: December 04, 2004 at 9:16 PM
jazzcustom131, did you run your rca's & power wires seperate or together? Also have you tried another set of rca's? It is possible that the set you have is bad.

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Posted By: Thack79
Date Posted: December 09, 2004 at 10:20 AM
Does it matter grounding you amps on the same point verse different spots close together. Is the same point just convenience or does this prevent ground noise?




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: December 12, 2004 at 10:37 AM
hey, i have a 1985 lincoln town car i have 2 12'' memphis subs and a 800w kenwood amp. i bought another car a while back and took the system from the linc to the new car (a 90' crown vic) the car has since sh*t the bed so i have the system back in the linc. my problem is a wicked, sounds to alternator whine. mind you i no problems in the lincoln before i took the system out. i hooked everything back up in the lincoln identical to the way it was before i took it out. Btw i have looked at noice filters do u suggest those?

If u have ne suggestions please fill me in id appreciate it! thanks

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Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 12:43 PM

No do not use the noise filters as they do not solve the problem. Have a closer look at the rca cables and make sure they are not pinched, grounding out or straining on the input terminals of the amp or output terminals on the cd player. Is this sound coming from the sub? or from other speakers. Not quite enough info to go on here dude, something is missing.

Thack79 - try to ground your amplifiers all in the same spot if possible. If not then multiple spots may be necessary and sometimes if the ground plane is good enough there will be no noise. There are a lot of factors that determine noise, not just one.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: pimpincavy
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 9:08 PM
Thanks Forbidden for the reply. My friend made the post, not me, and ill try to shead a little more light on the situation....The alternator whine is coming from the speakers, which are hooked up to a small 100W amp. Today he hooked up a differant set of RCA cables and made a new ground. It has fixed the problem somewhat, before it was almost unbearable to listen to the system in his car, now the alt. whine is still there, but not as predominat.

The amp is a Cummins amp, a company which I belive makes tools, so I dont really know how quality this thing is. We   opened it and took a look inside, nothing seems to be broken, fried etc. But then again neither of us are experts on amp internals.

He also regrounded his HU, no speakers are running off that though.

Should he run ground wire to the neg. termninal on the battery? Or perhaps reground the battery itself. Also, as far as I can tell the whine isnt coming from the subs.

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Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: December 15, 2004 at 6:14 AM
Well , I know this is a SUPER discussed problem , the engine noise.(Alternator wining)

The car came (bought it) with 2 amps , one for subs and one for speakers.

They were some small JBL and I decided to change witha new 5 channels that will pull speakers and subs.

As soon as I changed the amps , the engine noise came up.
The only thing I changed was the amp , same RCA wires , same ground same wire location.

Headunit is a Pioneer.

Don't want to use a ground loop isolator as will cut from the sound quality.

Any ideea why the engine noise came right after changing amp ?
I had the same problem with this amp in my older car but there I solved the problem by using a noise filter on the Battery and AC wire of the headunit.
On this car this trick does not work anymore.

I am asking again this engine noise question as on all the other posts I found regarding engine noise ,nobody replied to say if they got rid of the engine noise and what worked for them.

Thank you in advance for the tips.


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Damn cold here ...posted_image




Posted By: Poormanq45
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 9:08 PM
Sounds like either a problem with the Amp itself, or a grounding issue.

"I had the same problem with this amp in my older car but there I solved the problem by using a noise filter on the Battery and AC wire of the headunit."
What do you mean by "Noice filter"? Could you provide a link to a similar "filter"?

Well, did you switch over the Head Unit from your older car? If so, that might be a sign that the problem is with the HU.

First, I would check all the grounds again. Take them off. Make sure that they are contacting bare metel. That is what usually fixes the problem.

Do you still get the "whining" when the engine is off?




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Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 2:54 AM
1. This headunit worked perfect with the other 2 amps , and with the same amp in another car.

2. The noise filter it is a simple alternator noise filter.

3. There is no whining with the engine off and also no whining if I pull out the subwoofer RCA's.

4. Tried to re-ground the amp in different places and also directly on the battery. (My battery is in the baggage room so no problem there). Same noise.

5. Tried to ground the Head Unit on the same wire and point as the amp , same problem.

6. Tried to ground the RCA's ground ... noise becomes bigger.

So , the only thing I haven't tried yet is to replace RCA cables , even if they worked fine with the other amps :(

Any OTHER suggestions ?

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Damn cold here ...posted_image




Posted By: bigboi11
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 6:59 PM
If I run a new ground for my HU does it have to be shorter than 18 inches.  any advice on what to hook it up to.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 20, 2004 at 1:07 PM

No the line does not "have to be shorter than 18 inches". Find a good clean metal dash support or factory bolt to attach it to.

If you change any part of a system, the amp, the cd or the vehicle, you are no longer comparing on the same level playing field, thus what may have been a silent and noise free install in the old car might turn out to be the nightmare from the depths of hell in the new car. Noise problems can be vehicle related or product related. Pioneer uses a piss poor method of isolating the ground plane in the cd player. Once you have done a coule of thousand of these cd player installs, you will no doubt have found circumstances to support this. At the same time it can also be related to the amplifier, I have seen many a bad amplifier that also caused a nosie problem.

Make some muting plugs - take an rca cable (the el cheapo type) and cut the end off of it, leving the end end and about 4" of wire. Strip the center and outer shield and wire them together, this shorts the input of the amp and now provides a muted signal. If the amp still has noise with these muting plugs installed (in as many channels as you operate it with normally), then you have an amp issue. If there is no noise, start looking at the head unit and cabling. (my bet - the cd player).



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: Thack79
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 12:50 PM

Still trying to get rid of this damn ground noise. Couple questions?

I have ground noise coming from my amped speakers but not my factory speakers. So is this safe to say my deck is ok? (pioneer deck)

I have run rcas on separate sides, ground on bare metal for my deck, relay, and both amps and even added an extra ground to the battery (running out of ideas) Something i am mising or i need to test?





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 23, 2004 at 6:44 PM
Do a search for muting plugs and see what comes up. My bet is still the cd player.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: larkster
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 8:04 AM

Help please

94 gmc truck, put pioneer avic n1 and directed extreme 1500x and 4600x upgraded the 4/6 speakers.  I have a nasty alt noise. checked the resistance between deck ground and amp ground it  is 1.1 ohm. i ran the power wire down the passanger side and the rca and speaker leads down the driver side. to try to eliminate the noise i have ran new rcas over the seats, grounded the sheild on the rcas ran a ground and power lead from the battery to the deck and a ground wire from the deck to the amp distribution ground.  i finally made some plugs like everybody was talking about and no noise.

just to make sure i did the plugs right.  attach the two wires in the rca cable together(shield and center?) and hook them to the amp inputs....right?   so that would tell me the pioneer deck has a problem?  If i had another one i would try and switch it out.

please let me know as soon as possible thanks





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 12:36 PM
Where have you grounded the amps to? What has been done to the factory ground wires? Do you have a cd player with 3 preouts to plug into this system (not a Pioneer either). My bet again is the Pioneer unit coupled with a piss poor ground return resistance of the GM chassis.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: larkster
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 4:44 PM

the amps are grounded to underneath the rear seat.  i checked the resistance between the amp ground and the battery ground and it  is .8 ohms and the resistance between the deck ground and the battery ground is .8 ohm also the resistance between the battery negative post and the chassis is also .8 ohm.  Do you think i should run a new ground between the engine and the chassis

what i did for now is just use the inputs out of the deck to the speakers and of course no noise. just so i could get the guy on his way for the weekend and get him back next week.  The rca cables are out of the equation cause i tried new ones draped over the seat.  that too would eliminate the routing of wires. ground checks out. So with that being said you would think it is the deck or amp?

No i didnt have another deck in stock i could test it with.  Next week i guess.    Pioneer is really that bad ?  You think it is the deck?





Posted By: aprodigy
Date Posted: December 25, 2004 at 3:47 PM
anyways i have a problem, i was trying to connect my ground wire but i can seem to find a way to get it thru from the engine bay to the inside of the car can anyone help? The car is a 2001 honda accord v6. thanks




Posted By: larkster
Date Posted: December 27, 2004 at 12:59 PM

why are you running your ground wire out to the engine bay.  Should be no problem in that car to run ground inside car...if you want to though you will have to drill your own hole and put a grommet in if you are running a large ground wire through.  where did you hook your power wire to?





Posted By: Thack79
Date Posted: December 29, 2004 at 9:50 AM

Thanks forbidden, Apparently the deck wasnt grounded properly so after a while i guess it did something to the deck. After using another deck the ground noise was COMPLETELY gone. Thanks!!





Posted By: THOMAHIZO
Date Posted: December 30, 2004 at 11:42 AM
Hey guys i got a problem with my ground i think.... i hooked up an amp and 2 subs in my car and it wasnt bumping like it should. When i got to messing around i found out when i take the ground wire off for a few seconds and ground it again it will bump loud like it should for a few seconds, then i will go back to hardly making any noise out of the subs.... i have tried diffrent grounds and everywere i try it the same thing happens... any one ever had this problem??




Posted By: THOMAHIZO
Date Posted: December 30, 2004 at 12:18 PM
oh yeah forgot to add... the subs are 600w rms and 1200 peak running bridged on a 900w jvc(piece of $h!t) amp... is the amp to small??




Posted By: fastinanaurora
Date Posted: December 31, 2004 at 8:32 AM

new problem when I turn on my fm modulator I get a lot of feed back through the interior speakers and when I turn on my interior neons I get feedback that makes it sound like I blew a speaker on when the car is started though...



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What makes my car Bang:
Kicker KX 600.1 Mono amp (2004)
Kicker Solobaric L7 10 (2004)
Long Ported Box Single
Kicker 200.4 4 Channel(2004)
Kicker DX 60 6 1/2
Rockford Fosgate FRC3369 6x9




Posted By: clubfed11
Date Posted: January 04, 2005 at 10:27 PM
I was using a mulitmeter on my car, and when i touch it to the +12 to my amp, after the fuse from the batterie, it gives me a reading of like 1volt. But before the fuse, it gives me a +12.
And how do i measure the ground? I was told to switch to OHM mode and touch the black to the ground, and the red to the same part, that dosen't sound right.
Thanks a lot guys.




Posted By: uc10950
Date Posted: January 05, 2005 at 12:08 AM
dont get so fancy yet. pull youre head out. on youre rcas ,take a short pice of  wire to the outside sheild ling , and ground it. i had the same sh*t and found my whyne problem when i was puting in my xm tuner . you canwork it from therei




Posted By: clubfed11
Date Posted: January 05, 2005 at 12:20 AM
are you reffering to me?
If so, I don't have a whine problem, I have a question about my +12 line and ground.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 05, 2005 at 11:24 AM

clubfed11, you either have a bad fuse (known to happen) or a bad ground on the amp.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: septicdeath
Date Posted: January 08, 2005 at 2:28 AM

I've had the AVIC N1, 2 of them, and now the newer AVH-P6600DVD and all three systems have had a higher than normal noise issues in various installations.  Im not sure if this is just my problem or a pioneer thing.

Real quick, I remember the old school +12v "noise supressors" and how crappy they worked. But could someone shed information on some of the newer inline line level rca filters and what you sacrifice for using them? Also a brand recomendation. As you read bellow, I may take the easy way out if the disadvantages are nominal. I have ONE huge install with wires going everywhere.

I'm going to try to start to explain my system and how it all hooks up, so I'll give it my best shot and reply with more info ad this story unfolds. But in a quick nutshell its got 5 different a/v output devices PLUS a mini-itx computer running Windows XP) and ALOT of equipment normally not used in a car install, lots of DC-DC regulating power supplys that regulate the +11-+14 volt car power for the extermly stable +12v a computer motherboard/hard drives require, add-on battery banks to let the PC survive engine starts/cranks, +12v, +5volt, +3volt PC devices, USB cables all over, RF recievers for computer controllers/keyboards, this all integrated with the p6600DVD with its pioneer av-ip busDVD Changer, tv tuner, and remote a/v switchbox to take all the above plus a xbox, PS2, Direct TV/In motion Satellite, and allow it to feed into the 6600DVD's 1 a/v input(YES ONE, A/V INPUT) as well as output the video to 5 monitors and 1 true VGA monitor with touchscreen. All audio feeds feed into the 6600DVD which feeds into a memphis audio 4band (7volt preouts) into 5 diffrent memphis audio amps NOT grounded in the same area. To make it even more of  apain in the ass, there are 3 Optima batteries all in diffrent areas (had to fit them where I could) all grounded at diffrent frame locations. So you can see I am going to need some help. I'm not trying to take the easy way out, but I've got well over 15 devices grounded at various points to dc-dc convertors and old style frame welds.

The power 0/1 from the front battery was all run driver side meeting in the center (right behind the rear seat on enclosure box at a 10 farad cap/power distribution center where 2 more 0/1 +12volt also meet from each 0/1 routed from the left and right rear corners of the expeditions rear area behind the body panels, each rear battery is 0/1 grounded by 6" length and welded to the body right in each corner to the box support beams making up the "structure box" of the suv rear. All 7 pairs of RCA's between output devices and the a/v controller and 1 additional return a/v from the 6600dvd to the a/v controllerand the 6600DVD's a/v input box are run from the rear door passenger side cutting into the center of the truck under carpet and feed up into the 6600DVD which is actually been glassed into the center console between the front seats (the VGA touch screen is glassed into the the cut and enlarged standard 1.5 din opening supplied for stock radio in the expedition). Then via a single 1meter RCA from the 600DVD to EQ also glassed into the center console, and then 3 pairs of RCA's back directly down the center  at the beginning of the rear of the suv bed, 1 pair feeds into the memphis mojo amp and a 1meter from the pass though of mojo1 to mojo2. The other 2 rca's run up the passenger side behind the plastic body where they are split into 2 pairs of rca's for input into 2 amps running the highs, 2 pairs of rca's for input into 2 amps running mids, 2 pairs of rca's for input into 2 amps running midbass (4 doors all with tweets, 6.5 mids, and 8" solobarics for midbass). I wont really talk about the USB hard drives (+12v and +5v), PC USB XM radio (+5v), PC USB GPS(+5v), RF wireless Mouse type remote control (controlls apps as well as mouse) and the DC-DC regulation power subsytem until I get further into this (by the way, originally the PC feed directly into the amps via a external DSP with NO noise, but for better system control and utilization of all the Pioneer gear/Game machine/Satellite TV I needed to break this feed method and send everything to the A/V controller and then to the 6600DV HU as a composite RCA+Video connection. BTW , ALL interconnects are Stinger Dream Series Interconnects.

Well thats enough for now. What was that original question, ohh ya, due the inline low level rca noside filters work or not, and if any are better than others, which are they? Any suggestions on where to start, I guess it must be with the plugs, also my eq has a dual input, nothing is hooked to input #2. When I push input 2 the noise is decreased by 70% but still present, when input#1 its there. Only with car on. Ohh ya, the truck also has a 250amp ohio altenator hooked with dual 0 guage to the first battery, and NO isolater is used, all wired postitve to positve to positve (really all bat positives goto the +12 rail of the cap/distribution rail).

so some real world experiences would be greatly apperciated. Like I said, I know the questions about this device and that device are going to start, as I get on my knees and beg for help and sanity.

Thanks

SepticDeath 

larkster wrote:

Help please

94 gmc truck, put pioneer avic n1 and directed extreme 1500x and 4600x upgraded the 4/6 speakers.  I have a nasty alt noise. checked the resistance between deck ground and amp ground it  is 1.1 ohm. i ran the power wire down the passanger side and the rca and speaker leads down the driver side. to try to eliminate the noise i have ran new rcas over the seats, grounded the sheild on the rcas ran a ground and power lead from the battery to the deck and a ground wire from the deck to the amp distribution ground.  i finally made some plugs like everybody was talking about and no noise.

just to make sure i did the plugs right.  attach the two wires in the rca cable together(shield and center?) and hook them to the amp inputs....right?   so that would tell me the pioneer deck has a problem?  If i had another one i would try and switch it out.

please let me know as soon as possible thanks






Posted By: bigjo911
Date Posted: January 19, 2005 at 6:41 PM

trying to narrow down the problems with the install of my new alpine cda-9835. will a possible poor ground not be letting my infinity amp from getting a strong signal and there for not push much power at all ? power is very low compared to how it was before the install. all amp lights are on and remote switches are all ran.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 24, 2005 at 6:52 PM
Yes a bad ground can wreak havoc with an amplifiers output. What is the amp powering?

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bigjo911
Date Posted: January 24, 2005 at 7:55 PM
2 12" infinity kappa perfects DVC. its a 1300 infinity referance amp. the clarion handled it all fine, could the alpine 9835 be differnt?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 24, 2005 at 8:34 PM
Some of the Alpines do have issues with the output voltage on the sub preouts. I wil ltry and find out if this model is one of them.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bigjo911
Date Posted: January 25, 2005 at 7:52 AM
well i tried that actually, i just jumped a small wire from the ground on the amp to the subwoofer outs on the amp. is that what were talking about ?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 25, 2005 at 11:56 AM
AHHHHH! dude, stop now. A ground wire is totally different than a negative speaker wire.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: whtgp95
Date Posted: January 30, 2005 at 7:06 PM

Okay my question may or may not be related to a ground issue, but that's why I'm on here asking. My problem is when my system turns on. Weather I am turning my key to accessory, on, or when the system goes on after I actually start the car, once the amp turns on I get a big thud out of my subs only. It is a single hit, really quick, but really hard hitting. Does this sound like a ground problem?





Posted By: whtgp95
Date Posted: January 30, 2005 at 7:06 PM

My question may or may not be related to a ground issue, but that's why I'm on here asking. My problem is when my system turns on. Weather I am turning my key to accessory, on, or when the system goes on after I actually start the car, once the amp turns on I get a big thud out of my subs only. It is a single hit, really quick, but really hard hitting. Does this sound like a ground problem?





Posted By: whtgp95
Date Posted: January 30, 2005 at 7:08 PM
Sorry about the double post...I dunno what happened there.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 31, 2005 at 4:12 PM
Move the ground wire on the head unit and see what happens. Is the remote on lead on the amp hooked up to an ignition by chance?

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: sokkie
Date Posted: March 05, 2005 at 10:37 AM
i have a 1993 Toyota Cruiser i was wondering if it makes any sort of difference if i were to re-ground all the ground points with 4g wiring. and is there anything else i should be changing as well. lessee, right now my system consists of 2 Phoenix Gold tantrum 1200.1's, 1 tantrum 600.4 and 1 titanium ti600.2. my future installments, as soon as they arrive, will add on one more 1200.1 tantrum and i will be replacing the 600.4 with a xenon 200.4. as far as capacitors, i have 2 rockford 1farad caps. this will be replaced with an alumapro C.A.P.15 which i already have. any help on building sufficient power would be appreciated




Posted By: sokkie
Date Posted: March 05, 2005 at 10:46 AM

the remote is hooked up to my deck. i'm assuming by head unit you are talking about my deck. the deck works fine. my question was whether or not if i re-ground all the points on my car, would it make a difference? and possibly, where are all the ground points located. i would like to maximize power usage to the best of my ability.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: March 05, 2005 at 1:44 PM

With this much curent draw, you are going to need 0 guage wire if not larger for all power and ground wire runs. Upgrade all ground wires commonly known as the BIG 3 to 0 gauge to start things off. You are going to be in the market for a HO alternator, so get looking for the largest you can find right away.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: letsbeserious
Date Posted: March 10, 2005 at 7:23 PM
i've got a question... i just bought a new amp and sub. now they are matched up properly, i hooked up everything back up to the existing wires that i had previously from the other setup i had, but heres what i am trying to figure out. I had the sub thumping for about 30 minutes, and then nothing. The amp turned off but i got it checked out and nothing was wrong everything was still had some kind of energy or power to it properly. But right now the amp turns on but when i try to ground the the ground wire it turns off. What should i do i dont understand?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: March 18, 2005 at 9:01 PM
Sorry I didn't see this sooner, do you still have issues with the amp? It sounds like an amp failure to me.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: adtguru
Date Posted: March 23, 2005 at 11:39 AM

Hey Rob,

I just baught a Pioneer 8600 and put it in and without the engine even on I get a bad noise through the speakers almost like the fan noise in the back of the HU. When I got my first 8600 I sent it back thinking it was bad. but noe the new one does the same thing. I know you said they put crap filters on them but is there anything you can suggest?

Thanks in advance

Jason





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: March 23, 2005 at 11:45 AM
Jason, list the vehicle info and the full system info please. If you have a sub in the system, disconnect the rca cables at the head unit to see if the sound goes away.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: adtguru
Date Posted: March 23, 2005 at 11:53 AM
Sorry .... I have an 1995 Chevy S10. I have a Matts amp running the tweet and midrange and a fosgate running 2 old kicker comp 10's I did have a passive alpine eq hooked up but since this radio can do the same thing I removed it from the system. I had a 7600 installed for a couple of weeks and no problems. But then again it does not have a fan in it. I have all equipment grounded off of a 4 gauge ground bolted to the frame of my truck, With the exception of the HU it is still connected to the factory. Could that be the problem that maybe this radio is more sensitve to the noise?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: March 23, 2005 at 12:00 PM
Yes, in my experience over the years some of the Pioneer head units have real crappy internal ground planes and are a breeding ground for noise. Disconnect the antenna first, remove the stereo from the dash cavity and retest this way. Next try grounding the head unit to the amplifiers ground and see what happens.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: tenny
Date Posted: April 02, 2005 at 10:37 PM

I'm having a problem with my LOC, i was getting a bit of static type noise through the speakers. I checked the manual and it said when this happens to hook up a ground wire to the chasis of the car. So I did that and now you can hear engine noise through the speakers, it is much worse! It happens even if I just hook it onto another wire that is a ground.

Is this what a ground loop isolator is for???





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 04, 2005 at 5:44 PM
Chances are that the signal coming into the LOC is too "hot" a signal for the device to work properly. If it is a LOC that has adjustable outputs on it, turn the output levels down to see if the static goes away. What speakers is this static coming from, the factory speakers or the aftermarket that is being fed a signal from the LOC?

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: tenny
Date Posted: April 05, 2005 at 10:35 AM

they are adjustable, they only output 2 volts at max and are at about 3/4 setting. The static seems to come and go now, sometimes at no volume I can hear it and sometimes I cant...

it's comming from all of the speakers, they are all aftermarket. Boston Acoustics FX93 and Phoenix gold tantrum 5.25"





Posted By: danyshih
Date Posted: April 06, 2005 at 4:33 AM
I have another founding that: New Pioneer is worse than old Pioneers.
I take off my olf Pioneer KEH-8650 to brand new DEH-860MP on my Hyundai car.
The old 8650 works well with my a/d/s amp. but new 860MP come out same noise after 2nd try starting the engine. Everything is the same, just swap the HU. Now I wonder new HU with RCAs come with a small connector, should be worse than old HU RCAs come directly from the MLB board.

The other suspect is that I hit speaker + & - together without a care before the nosie coming out. Anybody can help to explain why this short on speaker will impact the RCA noise??? I wonder.

Maybe like you said should I return to fix? I love this HU, it looks cool.
And the iPod adap CD-IB100 is on the way back from Cruthfield
Or I have to wait for Apline 9855 posted_image

I order my 860MP on Hyaudio but it's said on web that new HU should be test before install, any scratch by install will cause on return. Is it real?
If I can not be refund, can I have them send another new one?




Posted By: tmorriso
Date Posted: April 08, 2005 at 11:47 AM

Let me try that again...

Okay, here goes.  I don't think it is a ground problem, but maybe: 

I have a noise problem with a new HU.  Equipment involved:

2003 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS 3.5L
Alpine CDA-9833 head unit (New component)
Blaupunkt PA2150 2x150w
Blaupunkt PA275 2x75w
CDT Audio CL-61 6.5” component set
Infinity Kappa 100.1se 10” sub

Currently I haven’t even connected the HU to the PA275 and sub.  That amp and sub are wired up but there are no patch cables running from the HU to that amp. 

The noise is not something I have run into before.  It occurs only when the engine is running and sounds like a “popping” or “ticking” ignition sound, but the “ticking” does not increase frequency or pitch as the engine RPMs increase.  It doesn’t sound like alternator whine.  It sounds like ignition noise, but I would have expected that to vary with engine speed. 

Anyway.  It does not get louder as the head unit’s volume is turned up.  My amp gains are all the way down.  The noise is there whether listening to the radio or CD.  The power and signal wires are run separately.  All accessorires are turned off (heat, A/C, etc…)

The odd thing I didn’t expect is that the noise occurs only on the RCA outputs.  The rear speakers are running directly off the HU and there is no noise.  I connected a LOC to the front speaker outputs and ran that into the amp and there is no noise.  Is there an obvious (but not to me) reason that there is noise on the RCA outputs, but not the speaker outputs?

I have tried:

Muting plugs on the amp – No noise  (This essnetally rules out the amp, x-overs, & speakers; correct?)
Disconnecting the RCAs at the back of the head unit – No noise
Connect rear speaker outputs – No noise
Connect Line Output Converter to front speaker outputs and run to amp – No noise
Pulling the head unit out of the dash opening – Noise continues
Remove antenna connection – Noise continues
Different RCA cables run out front of dash and over seats – Noise continues
Jumpered ground wire to amps ground dist block – Noise continues
Rerouted power wire to power dist block – Noise continues

Noise occurs on front and rear RCA outputs. 
If I turn the fader all the way to the rear, there is still noise coming through the front speakers (no music though)
The only time the noise is gone is when the head unit mutes itself (volume at zero, disc paused, etc…)

So any ideas?  I could use a couple.  Is there an internal problem with the HU?  I’ve grounded it to the same block as the amps, and the amps produce no noise.  The power wire has a factory installed choke coil integrated with the fuse holder.

The unit was purchased from Crutchfield and since I am past my 30 day free return period, I’m pretty much stuck with this unit.  I’ll call their tech support (which has been good in the past), but I’ll take all the help I can get.

As you would expect, I am a bit demoralized.  I’m no pro installer, but I’ve done this enough times that I never give doing the install a second thought.  I’ve dealt with ignition noise and alt whine before, but this is different and I’m rapidly running out of ideas.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 08, 2005 at 12:20 PM
If you have a discman, fire it into the amp and see if you have noise. To me it sounds like a bad preamp stage in the cd player. As the signal is there on tuner and cd, it is a source related issue that has been verified by your battery of tests.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: danyshih
Date Posted: April 08, 2005 at 8:40 PM

I'm solving DEH-860MP alternator noise problem dropping 10db more.

By connecting RCA ground to main ground.

But it still there which I never have before with my old KEH-8650,

Though now it's much acceptable.

They say 33000uF or 47000uF capacitors might help in Taiwan's forum.

I will try if I can get them.





Posted By: danyshih
Date Posted: April 11, 2005 at 10:26 PM

Hi finally I drop more by going battery power through a big filter coil which was sold in DIY store.

And drop a little by paralle a 50000uF capacitor.

So RCA grounding drop 90%, power filter drop 8%, capacitor drop 1% & I have ~1% WN.

I might leave this unit along & wait for my CDA-9855 which was shipped yesterday.





Posted By: tmorriso
Date Posted: April 12, 2005 at 12:11 PM

Dang it.  It's related to the PA2150 amp.

For the hell of it, I ran the HU into the PA275 and hooked up a spare full range speaker - no noise.  I had planned on shifting the front speakers to the PA275 eventually; so this just gave the incentive to do it sooner rather than later.  Everything is wired up in the front through the PA275 now and it sounds great.

Now I have to find out what is going on with the other amp.  Why no noise except when connected to the HU; a ground problem on the amp's RCA inputs? 

I'll see what I can find out.





Posted By: uglyb0b
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 11:04 PM
ok... stupid question... after reading this post and the 'what is a proper ground' - when you measure the resistance of your ground (at the end of your ground wire that goes into your amp), where does the other lead go? disconnect the battery, then put the other lead on the neg term of the car?




Posted By: Znergy
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 12:43 AM
I have just read this entire thread and it contains tons of great info. I really didn't see anyone say way they would do the big 3 though. I mean do you suggest that everyone does this or is it when you reach a certain amount of amps. When would you suggest this someone do this. I assume it really gepends on the amount of amps that your system is drawing. I'm a newb to the forum do bare with me incase this has been gone over before.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 22, 2005 at 11:37 AM
The BIG 3 (or 4) is recommended to do for every audio system upgrade.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: mtxblau
Date Posted: May 12, 2005 at 6:16 PM

As always, excellent forum, has been quite a resource for me (and many others alike).

From the factory ground I've run the HU, an Equalizer, car alarm, and a door switch (to operate door locks separately from the alarm).

I have no alternator whine, but I was curious if this would affect any operation of these devices, now or in the future?

I was thinking of avoiding this setup and running a direct line from the engine bloc just to make sure nothing happens in the future - is this overkill?

Thanks in advance.





Posted By: RedKatanaX9
Date Posted: May 14, 2005 at 10:36 AM
Hi, I am running into alternator whine issues as well. The noise increases when the A/C is on. Please help. posted_image

Car: Mazda Protege5 2002

Basics of my system: Eclipse CD5444 -> Pioneer EQ (DEQ-9200) -> 3 Alpine V series amps - 2 channel driving the MBQ tweets (let's call it Amp-T), 4 channel driving the front door Infinity mids (Amp-M) and a Mono driving 2 JL 10" subs (Amp-S). RCAs (StreetWire ZeoNoise series), speaker wires, remote-turn on were ran on the passenger side, power cable on the left side. All three amps grounded under one backseat bolt. Power cable is 4 gauge in -> distri block -> 8 gauge out.

The things I've tried:

Unplugging the RCAs after the EQ, no noise.

HU RCA directly Amp-M, no line in to the EQ but with RCAs still connected to it, noise! Then I unplugged the RCAs coming out from the EQ to Amp-T, no noise.

Only HU RCA to Amp-T, no noise.

Use all new RCAs from EQ to all the amps, draping over the seats and console, noise!

Ground EQ and Amps all under one bolt, noise!

Ground HU + EQ directly grounded to -battery, noise!

Ground each individual amps directly to the battery, noise!

Could running remote turn-on together with RCAs causing the noise, but I thought it carries little current.

Right now I think it might be the EQ causing the problem. It is grounded together with HU on the dash support.
The HU and EQ gets +12 V and ACC from stock wiring harness. Could it be the EQ/HU not getting enough power?

I had replaced my HU with the current Eclipse from an old Pioneer, but the noise's still there, albeit lower, I think.

Should I run new RCAs from HU to EQ?
Run new battery cable from battery to HU+EQ?

I've spend several days trying to figure this out, to no avail. Going crazy! posted_image Thank you guys, any help is appreciated.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: May 14, 2005 at 9:28 PM

Sorry for the delay guys, I have been super busy here at the shop lately.

mtxblau - if you have no noise issues right now, then unless you change, add or have a component electrical failure in the future, you should be fine.

RedKatanaX9 - no issues running the remote on with the rca's.

- bypass the eq entirely as it is more than likely the source of the noise. It is also manipulating a higher output signal from the eclipse. Run new rca's direct from the cd player to each amp and retest again.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: Trunk Monkey
Date Posted: May 15, 2005 at 12:36 AM
hey rob its T. Monkey




Posted By: RedKatanaX9
Date Posted: May 17, 2005 at 4:35 PM
So after compling my notes I decided that it had to be the EQ. All the connections to it and from seemed clean but then I thought the factory +12 V constant wires was just too thin to power both HU and EQ. So I ran a fused 12 Gauge power wire directly from the battery to the HU and EQ, and voila, noise was gone!!!

So all along the EQ wasn't getting enough juice, and perhaps was straining for power and somehow picked up alternator whine. Also gone was a slight high pitch humming even when the enging was not running. Thanks for all your help. posted_image




Posted By: zachzchw
Date Posted: May 21, 2005 at 11:27 PM

I have a noise, a terrible, terrible noise. Its present as a loud hum with the key turned forward, but the car not running. Start the car, and its louder, and increases with RPMs. Wiring is ran as follows:

rca cables/remote turn on lead/ one set of component speaker wires on the drivers side

power cable under the car, through the frame, comes up on passenger side

one set of component wires on passenger side

ground to d block, grounded with seat bolt, scraped clean of all paint, securely fastened,tested with DMM

Equipment:

Pioneer 860MP

Elemental Designs 9.4

Resonant Engineering RE series components

Scosche RCA cables

When I unplug the rcas, the noise stops. Looking for suggestions on what to try, in order of what is most likely to solve the problem.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: May 23, 2005 at 1:02 PM
Take the ignition wire from the Pioneer and jump it to the constant 12 volt line. Does the problem go away. Unplug the antenna next. Run a new power, ignition and ground line. Take the unit out of the dash cavity, does it still make noise. (in case it is a 85 ford pu). Chances are though that you will still have this noise. This is indicative of a piss poor internal ground plane in the Pioneer cd player, meaning time for service or replacement.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: kmitchel
Date Posted: May 24, 2005 at 9:03 PM

RedKatanaX9 wrote:

So after compling my notes I decided that it had to be the EQ. All the connections to it and from seemed clean but then I thought the factory +12 V constant wires was just too thin to power both HU and EQ. So I ran a fused 12 Gauge power wire directly from the battery to the HU and EQ, and voila, noise was gone!!!

So all along the EQ wasn't getting enough juice, and perhaps was straining for power and somehow picked up alternator whine. Also gone was a slight high pitch humming even when the enging was not running. Thanks for all your help. posted_image

It's not a matter of enough juice.  The factory power wire is probably picking up interference from adjacent wires, like something going to the ECM.





Posted By: swfx
Date Posted: May 28, 2005 at 12:32 PM
Any help would be greatly appreciated on this noise issue I'm having.  It didn't start until I added an LCD monitor to my setup.  The audio was crystal clear until I added the LCD.  As soon as I connect the video RCA cable coming from the HU, I get terrible engine whine.  I have tried moving both the power and ground connections for the LCD to different locations (even the power dist block for the amps) but every time I connect the RCA, I get noise.  I have even tried using different RCA cable and I get the same thing.  Is this a ground loop or induced noise?  I just don't get it.  The video RCA cable is running the same route as the audio RCA cables.  Yet, the audio doesn't have any noise.  Thanks in advance.




Posted By: Mackiewicz
Date Posted: May 28, 2005 at 3:41 PM

Sorry for the first miss post (didn't like the cut and paste from Word).  Let me try this again.

I have a noise problem I cannot eliminate in a new system I installed in my 2000 Accord.  The noise is there only with the engine running.  I would not describe the noise as a whine, it is at a lower frequency but it DOES vary some with the engine speed.  When I unplug the RCAs fom the amp the noise persists.  I tried re-grounding the HU from the factory harness to the firewall ground as well as linking this ground to the amp ground via the third wire on my RCAs with no luck.  I am assuming I am getting power noise through the amp or the HU, not sure what I should try next.

Components:  HU - Eclipse CD5444, Amp - MTX Thunder 5400 5-channel, Speakers - Focal 165A front, 690CA rear, RCAs - Phoenix Gold

Install:  RCA's run passenger side, speakers in stock locations with one speaker wire running forward down each side of the car.  Power is 4ga run down the driver's side, amp ground is in the trunk on sheet metal attached to firm structure.  (I tested this with very little resistence between the bare metal and the negative battery terminal)  HU is grounded to the firewall, power is through the stock harness.

Appreciate any advise, the system sounds great when the car is not running.





Posted By: Joebagodoe
Date Posted: May 28, 2005 at 8:53 PM
I own a 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport with a nice ground loop problem. I have installed a CarPC and started getting a pretty hostile ground loop. I have now removed all components except the stock amplifier and still receive a very loud ground loop. Is it possible that the stock amp has failed? I re-grounded the amp with larger cable 6 inches in length to a stripped surface ensuring that is not the issue.




Posted By: danieljaluise
Date Posted: May 31, 2005 at 11:38 AM
Maybe someone wants to take all the info and suggestions being posted and compile them into a general step-by-step trouble shooting guide for eliminating alternator whine and ground noise. It would cut down on the nuymber of repetitious posts, and help people check the simple things first, before uninstalling the whole system.

I'm going to do this if no one else does, but I dont have the time now.

This forum topic is really helpful though. thanks

-Dan




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: May 31, 2005 at 12:30 PM

I am unavailable right now to look into your questions. I am more than a little inundated with activity here at the shop. Once I have a chance to breathe again, I'll see if I can get to you questions.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: ogtmartyr
Date Posted: June 06, 2005 at 9:11 PM
I have a Chevy S10 from 1988. The CD player is a VJC kd-lh810. I was trying to test my grounds to see if they are ... good or bad. I hooked up the voltmeter to the ground i had on my stereo and then the positive probe onto my live lead. The volts read 14+when the car was on but then went down to no power when I turned on my headlights. I then tried hooking the ground up to my parking break (which i assume is attatched to my chasis) and tried the same thing with my power lead. This time the voltage did not drop. Is the ground bad that i had hooked up to my stereo?




Posted By: blueeyedlion
Date Posted: June 06, 2005 at 9:35 PM

arrrgh! the infamous alternator whining noise. i've been bitten. so before i go pulling everything apart, i'd like to see what the pros have to say:

i've just installed a new everything and i'm biamplifying the tweeters of a 2-component system, so they use the HU's amp while the mids get their juice from a separate JL Audio amp. so coming out of the HU I go straight to the X-over and into the tweeter. only the driver side tweeter whines from what I can tell. so does this mean the X-Over is introducing noise or is the the GND of my HU jacked?

the front L and R X-Over do not have symmetrical install locations. the driver's side X-Over had to go under the carpet of the driver's seat. the passenger's went under the glove compartment. is there anyway i can protect the X-Over from noise? shield it or whatever.  power is nowhere near this area by the way.





Posted By: blueeyedlion
Date Posted: June 07, 2005 at 1:51 AM

so I just measured the resistance between the battery and the HU GND, here are my findings:

a) positive battery terminal disconnected, ignition off: 0.3ohms
b) positive battery terminal connected, ignition off: 1.5ohms
c) positive battery terminal connected, ignition on: 12+ohms
d) positive battery terminal connected, ignition on engine started: 13+ohms
reving the egnine dropped the resistance by a tenth or two. letting the engine idle eventually brought the resistance down to around 5+ohms.

why does the resistance go up when the terminal is connected, or the ignition is on? does this behaviour explain alternator whine? the whine can only be heard when the engine is running, and would consistently fluctuate with the RPMs regardless of the resistance measured (between 5-13ohms).

so do i have a GND loop? or is noise coming in at say my X-Over?





Posted By: godsegoizhuge
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 3:33 PM
Hi I have a 95 jeep grand cherokee. I've installed my kenwood indash monitor, kicker 500.2 sub amp and my kicker solo 12" L5. Anyways onto the problem. Well I have everything installed and going, but the sub has a low rumbling noise coming out of it when the volume is either muted or turned down, also has a turn-on thump. I've tried a factory bolt which worked fine, but then I drilled a new hole and used a seperate bolt. I've sanded down the area inside and underneath the vehicle, still happens. I noticed on one of the times the ground wire came undone, but everything still worked, just there was a more louder rumbling coming from the sub, but the rest of the speakers played fine. That last part has me really confused. As for the ground location, it's underneath the rear seats, should I try a different location or what?




Posted By: ccroadshop99031
Date Posted: June 26, 2005 at 7:23 PM
blueeyedlion wrote:

so I just measured the resistance between the battery and the HU GND, here are my findings:

a) positive battery terminal disconnected, ignition off: 0.3ohms
b) positive battery terminal connected, ignition off: 1.5ohms
c) positive battery terminal connected, ignition on: 12+ohms
d) positive battery terminal connected, ignition on engine started: 13+ohms
reving the egnine dropped the resistance by a tenth or two. letting the engine idle eventually brought the resistance down to around 5+ohms.

why does the resistance go up when the terminal is connected, or the ignition is on? does this behaviour explain alternator whine? the whine can only be heard when the engine is running, and would consistently fluctuate with the RPMs regardless of the resistance measured (between 5-13ohms).

so do i have a GND loop? or is noise coming in at say my X-Over?


  well you cant really measure acurate resistance in a live circuit




Posted By: boulderguy
Date Posted: June 30, 2005 at 11:33 PM

Is it OK to use the ground on a capacitor (1F) as the comman ground point for everything else, or does the cap need to be isolated?

It'd be easiest to use the B+ and ground on the cap as the distro block.  I'm sure the B+ is fine that way, not so sure about the ground.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 02, 2005 at 1:23 PM

Yes it is fine to use the cap as a distro block.

I have still been extremely busy here at the shop guys, again, sorry for not getting back to questions sooner.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: badtazboy
Date Posted: July 03, 2005 at 1:11 PM
I am running a Clarion VRX935VD head, a Lanzar Vibe430 amp, StreetWires rca, 4 to 8 power, head grounded to frame not factory ground and amp solidly ground on strut. Just recently pulled system out of another vehicle which never had “the buzz”. Head works great, no noise added the amp and at first no buzz but when I closed the trunk for the first time I got “the buzz”. I mounted the amp to the rear deck which I think is my problem but I am not one to advertise so I want to keep the amp hid. I have tried all possibly (wires and ground). When I disconnect the ground the amp still works. I guess my ultimate question would be, could it be the fact that it’s grounded to the deck, and if so what would be suggested for fixing the problem? I still would like to keep the amp mounted to the deck.




Posted By: clemsonfan723
Date Posted: July 10, 2005 at 11:55 AM
I have a serious sound issue on the entire left side of my 98' Ford Explorer...It has been this way ever since I got the car new and have taken it to Ford several times but they never can seem to find whats wrong with it.  I have recently installed 4 new pioneer interriors, thinking perhaps it was the factory speakers that was causing the problem.  After putting these in I notice the problem that much more.  The front left and rear left will be working, but be working very softly almost as if not working.  I turn the car on and everything is fine im driving along and I hit a small bump in the road and either the front left or the entire left side goes out.  To get them back up to speed I have to either hit another bump or turn the volume up above normal to get them back on.  I no longer want to push the limits of the speakers since they are new and I do not want to blow them.  I also plan on putting an amp and subs in the car, but do not feel like I should until I fix this problem.  HELP!!!!!




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 11, 2005 at 1:12 AM
There is an issue with the hidden amplifier or the head unit. If it is the factory head unit, it is either internal in it. Replace the head unit with a similar one to verify. If it is the hidden amplifier, (hidden behind the passenger rear quarter panel, towards the rear seat), it as well will need to be replaced. If you are considering a new cd player, now is the time, as chances are it would solve all problems save for one. By replacing the cd player up front, it takes the factory one out of the equation, it also necessitates the bypassing of the factory amplifier in the rear (a simple process), thus two possible faulty birds are taken out with one stone. If the problem still arises, it may be a speaker wire intermittently going to ground on either the front or rear left side speaker.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 11, 2005 at 1:13 AM
Still super busy as well guys, sorry for the spotty responses. 11:00 at night on a Sunday (day off) and another 7 hours to go on a job that must be finished. Yikes.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: clemsonfan723
Date Posted: July 11, 2005 at 2:27 AM
Well I replaced the head unit around Christmas and the problem didn't change...I have a 4 channel amp I will install and hopefully that will work...




Posted By: Venge2wss
Date Posted: July 11, 2005 at 3:14 PM
OK this is a weird one..

I have a Kenwood Cd/Mp3 sirus headunit..

Problem
IDK

i had an old kenwood deck.. which i just replaced because i thought it was bad.. so i go buy this new kenwood and. i hook it up.. i used crimp connectors on every wire.. grounded it to a nice clean spot. turn it on.. deck turns on but sounds like ground loop.. NO music is played.. i jiggle the cd player harness and it turns on.. and it worked. so i rechecked everywire. and then soldered each one.. goto work.. i get out of work and its doing the same thing sound like a ground loop.. i get mad hit center console and it starts working again.. im totally lost here.. the most recent thing i had done was a alarm installed.. a compustar 2wssR.. but it works great w/o problems.. can someone PLZ help me

-------------
2WSS Compustar
1995 dodge avanger
Lowered On Tenzo r's And Kyb Agx's
Flowmaster 40's Exshaust
Viper Body kit.
Custom Paint..
17" chromes
Eclipse Console Swap
2 13kv.2 elemental Design subs




Posted By: Atl_monte
Date Posted: July 20, 2005 at 1:29 PM
I currently have a StingerSPV44 battery installed in the spare tire well in the trunk of my car...I was wondering about grounding it...its currently grounded to the side of the well but I was thinking of updating that...to a bolt that passes thru the the well and connects to a cable that will connect to the frame so it will be grounded to the body and frame...is this a good idea or should I leave it the way it is?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 20, 2005 at 1:38 PM

Read the grounding sticky and it will tell you how to ground this battery. Find the resistance on the return line first, that will tell you what you need to do next.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: xikecongtu
Date Posted: August 03, 2005 at 2:22 PM

Question:

i have 3 amps, 3caps, 4gauge, 2x8gauge

so i would need 6 places to gound them.......can i gound them together, how far apart from each of them....., can i use the distribution block...?



-------------
concu




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: August 05, 2005 at 2:12 PM
Yes you can ground them together and yes you can use a distribution block to do so.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: Sloppy Joseph
Date Posted: August 07, 2005 at 9:21 PM
When i turn my truck on i get noise through my subs and then they just start pulsing until the music strats playing. What is the deal?? i dont know where to start.




Posted By: borked
Date Posted: August 15, 2005 at 6:55 PM
I don't really have a whinning noise, or maybe I just can't hear it over all the other noises.

Anyways, I've been troubleshooting the noises in my civic for a few days now. I have come to the conclusion that noise is coming through my headunit/or the wiring of. Because If I disconnect the rca cables from my head unit no noise.

The noise i'm having is this, it pops and it cuts out whenever I use my lights or turn signals. My subwoofer will thump when i use my turn signal and my components will cut out for a millisecond not long but enough to notice.

Being out of ideas, and going off of varios things i've read on the internet and my misunderstanding of them. I think I read something about grounding the rca connectors. Well I couldn't really find a how to on that, so I figured id just grab a basic like 22 gauge wire strip it and insert it into the preout on my head unit and shove my subwoofer rca cables in there after it. Then I took the other bare end of that wire and just touched it the bare metal on my HU and it worked, no more noise interruption(thumping when I use lights/blinkers) I havent tried this method with my components, because im using LOCs for those since my kenwood hu only has 1 preout.

Question: Is this okay to do? I dont really notice anything wrong now, whats a better way to do what im doing? Also How will I fix the issue with my components? Do I just ground rca connectors on my LOCs to the chassis as well? and what the heck caused this whole thing? I had my head unit installed at best buy, did they not ground the HU right?

I'd just like to thank everyone on these forums and on the12volt, the knowledge and information found on this site and forums, are unlike any other place. I appreciate this thread especially! Thanks everyone!




Posted By: nat765
Date Posted: August 16, 2005 at 2:56 PM

hi guys, i've just recently upgraded my stereo myself and have run into problems and now i'm stumped.  here's my situation:

  • 1998 chevy extended cab pickup
  • kenwood excelon kdc-x859
  • sony mobile es 6.5 comps
  • polk momo 4x6 plates
  • ppi 5440 amp
  • two diamond audio d310d4 subs
  • soundstream vga800.2 amp
  • petras blt1 balanced line driver
  • two monster audio 1 farrad capacitors
  • optima red top battery (under hood)
  • 140 amp circuit breaker
  • phoenix gold fused distribution block
  • phoenix gold nonfused distribution block
  • monster cable xln pro two channel and four channel rca cables
  • eight 40mm x 40mm x 20mm fans silconed to the top of the soundstream
  • one stdp to turn everything on            

when i turn on my stereo i get a little tump through just my comps and when i turn the stereo off i get it through my subs.  i might be getting it from the comps but i can't hear it because the subs are louder.  i've tried running a set of spare set of rca cables over my seats, with the head unit out of the dash, to the balanced line driver, with no luck.  i haven't ran them to the soundstream amp directly because of the balanced input.  i didn't know if i could or not.  i forgot to mention that i've got four guage power wire running from the optima to the fused distribution block and then only to the soundstream.  from the distribution block to the ppi, i am running eight guage wire.  i've ran a four gauge ground wire from the soundstream directly to the optima under my hood.  the ground wires for the ppi, line driver, both capacitors (that are wired in line with the soundstream), all the fans, and the relay are all ran to the nonfused distribution block and then from there with a four guage wire to the floor.  i drilled my own hole to bolt to and sanded away the paint.  i've also got everything mounted on plexiglass on my back wall behind the rear seat.  i have read about grounding the rca cables but didn't really understand them enough to try it.  any and all help would be greatly appreciated.  thank you



-------------
nat




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 10, 2005 at 6:55 PM
Sorry people, way too busy right now to get into things, my apologies to those with questions at this time.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: wranglercory
Date Posted: September 24, 2005 at 6:14 PM
the best idea is to ground it good and ground it once .




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: September 28, 2005 at 11:33 AM

borked wrote:

I don't really have a whinning noise, or maybe I just can't hear it over all the other noises.

Anyways, I've been troubleshooting the noises in my civic for a few days now. I have come to the conclusion that noise is coming through my headunit/or the wiring of. Because If I disconnect the rca cables from my head unit no noise.

The noise i'm having is this, it pops and it cuts out whenever I use my lights or turn signals. My subwoofer will thump when i use my turn signal and my components will cut out for a millisecond not long but enough to notice.

Being out of ideas, and going off of varios things i've read on the internet and my misunderstanding of them. I think I read something about grounding the rca connectors. Well I couldn't really find a how to on that, so I figured id just grab a basic like 22 gauge wire strip it and insert it into the preout on my head unit and shove my subwoofer rca cables in there after it. Then I took the other bare end of that wire and just touched it the bare metal on my HU and it worked, no more noise interruption(thumping when I use lights/blinkers) I havent tried this method with my components, because im using LOCs for those since my kenwood hu only has 1 preout.

Question: Is this okay to do? I dont really notice anything wrong now, whats a better way to do what im doing? Also How will I fix the issue with my components? Do I just ground rca connectors on my LOCs to the chassis as well? and what the heck caused this whole thing? I had my head unit installed at best buy, did they not ground the HU right?

I'd just like to thank everyone on these forums and on the12volt, the knowledge and information found on this site and forums, are unlike any other place. I appreciate this thread especially! Thanks everyone!

Did you use the Civic'c grounding wire at the back of the HU ? If so, change the grounding point to somewhere else. You can measure absolute grounding points on the vehicle with a DMM in relation to the battery ground. A good DMM will show resistance to ground if there's poor grounding locations.



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: September 28, 2005 at 11:40 AM
nat765 wrote:

hi guys, i've just recently upgraded my stereo myself and have run into problems and now i'm stumped.  here's my situation:

  • 1998 chevy extended cab pickup
  • kenwood excelon kdc-x859
  • sony mobile es 6.5 comps
  • polk momo 4x6 plates
  • ppi 5440 amp
  • two diamond audio d310d4 subs
  • soundstream vga800.2 amp
  • petras blt1 balanced line driver
  • two monster audio 1 farrad capacitors
  • optima red top battery (under hood)
  • 140 amp circuit breaker
  • phoenix gold fused distribution block
  • phoenix gold nonfused distribution block
  • monster cable xln pro two channel and four channel rca cables
  • eight 40mm x 40mm x 20mm fans silconed to the top of the soundstream
  • one stdp to turn everything on            

when i turn on my stereo i get a little tump through just my comps and when i turn the stereo off i get it through my subs.  i might be getting it from the comps but i can't hear it because the subs are louder.  i've tried running a set of spare set of rca cables over my seats, with the head unit out of the dash, to the balanced line driver, with no luck.  i haven't ran them to the soundstream amp directly because of the balanced input.  i didn't know if i could or not.  i forgot to mention that i've got four guage power wire running from the optima to the fused distribution block and then only to the soundstream.  from the distribution block to the ppi, i am running eight guage wire.  i've ran a four gauge ground wire from the soundstream directly to the optima under my hood.  the ground wires for the ppi, line driver, both capacitors (that are wired in line with the soundstream), all the fans, and the relay are all ran to the nonfused distribution block and then from there with a four guage wire to the floor.  i drilled my own hole to bolt to and sanded away the paint.  i've also got everything mounted on plexiglass on my back wall behind the rear seat.  i have read about grounding the rca cables but didn't really understand them enough to try it.  any and all help would be greatly appreciated.  thank you


Turn on thump can vary from a slight pop to a mind shattering, teeth rattling BOOM! This thump is caused by the audio circuitry stabilizing when power is applied. Most amplifiers and source units have muting circuitry that lasts a couple of seconds to allow these fluctuations to subside before passing a signal. However, if the amplifier un-mutes before the source unit or any other accessory, you better watch out. Here are some things to try if you have turn on thump.

  • Verify that the amp has a good audio ground reference. Read note below:
  • Don't install the system so the amplifiers can be switched on when the source unit is turned off.
  • If you still have thump, add a turn on delay module in line with the remote turn on wire to the amp.

Note: In order for the amps to function properly, the audio ground must be referenced to chassis ground at the source unit. If it is not, the amplifier could oscillate. To check for a good ground reference, take a volt-ohm meter (VOM) and measure the resistance between the chassis of the radio and the shield of the RCA line level outputs of the radio. This reading should indicate a direct short. If this is not the case, grounding the shield of the RCA line level outputs to the chassis of the radio will probably be necessary.

Here's another post that might help you: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=52033&KW=termpro



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: erinh
Date Posted: October 26, 2005 at 11:40 AM
Hi, I installed a CD player in 94 B2300 and I only used the wire that was back there to connect the ground. When I change stations, I hear a pop sound. I guess I need to find a good ground. I'm going to pull it out soon to hook up satellite, so I may as well ground both in a good spot at the same time.

Is there any tips for where to ground it in 1994 Mazda B2300?




Posted By: calebsg
Date Posted: November 01, 2005 at 9:05 AM
1999 Landrover Discovery (Series 1) with stock stereo except I just bought a Pioneer DEH-P6700MP with the VW harnesses and a PAC OEM-2.

Everything is great but I get a steady static or hiss which runs at a consistent volume regardless of stereo volume or whether the vehicle is running or not.

Noticed on the the harness that the common-ground speakers all have a ground wire coming back in the LR but the harness has only one ground wire to return to the head unit. If the other speakers are not grounded would this cause the hiss?




Posted By: brandonp
Date Posted: November 04, 2005 at 11:23 AM
The Car: 2005 Acura RL, with Bose, Nav, 6-disc In-dash Changer

Installed: Old school Rockford Mono Amp, running 2 Alumapro 10's, 5 farad Alumapro cap, Phoenix gold 2ch. line driver, we grabbed the signal off of the factory sub in the rear deck with a L.O.C.

The Problem: Low level noise that plays through the subs, it varies with engine RPM only between 1000-2000 rpm's. And the noise will go away when any door is opened. It doesn't matter if the trunk is open. Car must be running. The noise will usually go away if it's driven a short distance(50-100ft).

What I've tried: Just about everything I can think of. L.O.C.'s - tried 4 different ones 2 are made by Navone, one from PIE for Bose,JBL systems, and one cheap-o. The Navone one worked the best, but didn't totally eliminate the noise. With the junk LOC's the noise was their at idle, with the Navone it's only their when it's revved up to about 1500 rpm. Grounding - To the frame(scraped to bare metal), to the chassis, even at the factory Bose amp ground. Nothing seemed to help. All of the noise troubleshooting has been done both with the Phoenix Gold Line driver, and without. I've tried a ground loop isolator, and the L.O.C. has an isolator in it. I've also tried grounding the RCA shield everywhere - fact. amp, chassis....no luck! I played around with all the gains on the amp, the L.O.C., and the line driver, all starting all the way down first. I also tried getting the audio signal elsewhere, you can't go off the fronts, rears, or center because it's all crossed over. I found the signal wires for the sub before the bose amp, but it wouldn't work with the Line output convertor, maybe digital? I also swapped the amp with a new JL 500/1 and the noise is still their. I feel that their is few things left to try.

Any comments or suggestions, are very welcome. I need a fix!! I called DEI tech support, gave them the scoop and they told me to contact Navone engineering, he told me to try their convertors cause their built better, and thought it was a level matching issue. The only other thing I can think of that the noise is present at the factory sub, barely audible, until it's amplified. I'm ready to give up and pull it all out. Sorry about the long post, and thanks in advance for any help!!!!!




Posted By: steezs
Date Posted: November 04, 2005 at 3:44 PM
Can any of you guys provide a diagram of how to test the ground with a DMM? I dont really understand where you put the meters probes and the wire form the battery negative confusing me? Or a link to show me how to do it .

-------------
THE DUCE




Posted By: dancivicman
Date Posted: November 08, 2005 at 8:42 AM
Hi im new to the 12 volt forum, i think its because u have run your rca plugs to the wrong side of the car because some cars have power cables on one side and the rippling of the electrical wave induces a voltage into ur rca line and u hear the noise through ur stereo id try run ur rca's on the other side of ur car




Posted By: dancivicman
Date Posted: November 08, 2005 at 8:44 AM

sorry i posted a comment to somebody in august because after i joined the dates changed ignore what i just said





Posted By: total_overkill
Date Posted: January 02, 2006 at 7:56 AM
I originally started by taking the puny factory ground out and Upgraded the wire to 4 gauge. I also took 4 gage at time. (being upgraded to 1 gauge) and ringed the end, attached it to the engine block, then attached it again to chasis by battery, attached to chasis again just before firewall, attached to chasis again divers side floor in 2 places, attached again to chasis in back seat door floor area. All attachment points were soldered and dialelectric grease added, then gone over again with liquid electrical tape. This goes to a 2nd battery as an end point. Also gives me a good ground on almost any part of the car by attaching  a ground wire to one of my grounding spots.

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40 grit has saved my life sometimes =[




Posted By: dstang24
Date Posted: January 10, 2006 at 8:32 PM

Poormanq45 wrote:

I just don't think the frame of a vehicle conducts electricity well enough.

I ran 2 6 guage wires to the back of my car, one on each side. Whereever I need to ground something, I run a short span of wire from the part to be grounded to the closest 4 guage ground wire. This insures a complete ground.

Also, with my method, you don't have to worry about your conection to the frame corroding.

The frame and body of the vehicle conduct very well.  There is much more conductive metal between the frame and the negative terminal of the battery than there is through a 4 guage wire ran from the rear of the vehicle.  This is what I was taught at Mobile Dynamics.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, I've only read the first 4 pages of this thread.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 10, 2006 at 8:50 PM
Again, "There is much more conductive metal between the frame and the negative terminal of the battery". A good ground is not about the amount of the conductive metal between the frame and the negative terminal of the battery, it is about the resistance through it. If the resistance is low enough, have at er, go to town.

-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: dstang24
Date Posted: January 10, 2006 at 8:54 PM
let me clarify... More conductive material usually means less resistance (more paths like a fire hose vs. garden hose).  So I agree fully.  I forgot half of my explanation.




Posted By: sethsowash
Date Posted: January 18, 2006 at 3:54 PM

I am experiencing interference (engine whine) with a new pinoeer head unit. 

I previously had my stock jeep head unit hooked up to a pair of 2 channel amps with no problems, it is only after I installed the new head unit that im havng trouble. The only thing that i changed was to add RCA splitters to the RCA cables, and change the power/ground to the new head unit.

I tried grounding the HU to the amps ground, didnt work.





Posted By: Storm910
Date Posted: January 19, 2006 at 2:26 PM
okay here's what's going down:
I installed a myron&davis all-in-one video system into an 05 grand cherokee a couple months ago. apparently the vehicle has been in the shop for a lot of electrical problems lately.
The vehicle stays running when the key is removed from the ignition, the brakes are failing and who knows what else.
They told the customer that they have traced the problem down to the fact that I didn't scape off all of the paint when i grounded the video system.
WTF?
i've been installing for a long time and i've never heard of anything like this.

#1 i'm sure the ground is fine, i always ground in the driver's kick away from any other grounds with a star washer
#2 even if it is a poor ground, at the most it would only cause componenets directly related to the video system to have problems.

so what's up guys? am i just an ass-clown that doesn't know what he's doing or is someone trying to pull a fast one on me?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 19, 2006 at 2:34 PM

sethsowash, chances are very high that you have a bad head unit. Pioneer heads are notorious for having a piss poor internal ground plane. Try another cd player.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: January 19, 2006 at 2:41 PM

Storm910, the person telling you this is full of BS, he is blaming something that you have done for a problem that he cannot find. Scraping the paint off for the ground would only affect the aftermarket dvd unit, not anything else. I would be more inclined to start looking at how the power / ignition lines were interfaced first. Ensure that there is no backfeeding on anything. Was there a rs/alarm installed or a keyless entry as well? That is far more likely to cause headaches with the install that present the problems you are mentioning.

Remember that a service technician at a stealership has a flowchart to follow to try and solve issues. This flowchart is also there to maximize the time in the bay and the $ associated to it. The technician if taken to task about 12volt electronics and how the aftermarket industry works is not going to know the end of his nose after about 12 seconds. You as a installer have a definite advantage here.......next time though (and every time), ensure that you have a good ground clean of paint....that would have been one thing he could not have come back at you on.



-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: electrostatic
Date Posted: January 19, 2006 at 2:51 PM
hey storm910, thats interesting. so the shop scraped the metal bare and all is well? unbelievable, now you look like the bad guy!




Posted By: Flatlandfreak
Date Posted: January 29, 2006 at 6:39 PM

Poormanq45 wrote:

Ok guys. I've read enough of this grounding crap. Taking a wire from whatever you want to ground and attaching it to the frame(Bare metal) is not a real ground.

To completely ground your system, you should hook up a ground wire from the part and connect it to the negative terminal on the battery. This will give you a complete/Proper ground.

It is a common mis-conception that the ground and negative wires are different. This is not true. They are one and the same.

BTW, I am an electrician. The ground and negative on a 110~130V house lead to the same place. It is just because of the Electrical Code that these two wires are kept separate until they reach the breaker/fuse box.

You're an electrician?  And you think there is a "Negative" wire in a home?  Homes use Alternating Current (AC)  There is no negative or positive.  It's a neutral wire, not a negative wire.  And the neutral and ground wires in a home are completely different than the ground wires in a car.  The ground wire is never a means to return current to ground in terminating a device, it's a safety backup, in case the neutral wire is comprimised do to a ground fault, it allows current an alternative route to ground.  That way if the conductor somehow comes in contact with exposed metal, it won't electricute you if you touch it, instead it will take the easiest path and travel through the ground wire.  This also protects equipment in basically the same way.

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that they are completely different scenarios. 



-------------
I Like Peanut Butter!




Posted By: wranglercory
Date Posted: February 08, 2006 at 10:15 AM
run your power and ground all the way to the battery this way you wount get any ground loops . Its worth a shot if you are having continueing problems




Posted By: fuscobal
Date Posted: February 22, 2006 at 5:45 PM

I'm also having some noise problems with my Clarion DRZ-9255. Currently, the DRZ is wired to the stock connector in the dash and the DC/DC convertor ( separate box for those who are not familiar with this unit ) is wired to the chassis. I've heard rumours saying that it would be best to wire them both directly to the battery. What do u think ? Thanks !

PS : The noise is constant with the RPMs but increases when i switch the volume control from ---- to -96db ( the volume control goes from -96db to +6db )



-------------
Carion DRZ-9255
Audison VRX 4.300 & 1.500
DLS Iridium 6.3
JL-Audio 12W7




Posted By: mattsthru
Date Posted: March 29, 2006 at 7:04 PM
Is it a good idea to ground the HU, a monitor, and a cd changer all together?

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On a Mission...




Posted By: dahot97stang
Date Posted: April 05, 2006 at 3:49 PM

I am having a problem with static in my speakers.  I just put in new infinity kappa components in all 4 doors and have them hooked up to an infinity amp.  Then I have a Boston acoustic 10 ran to a dif amp.  Im having alot of background noise in the speakers and wondering what I can do to get rid of this. 





Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 12:25 AM
Hello all,

i have a quick question. i am currently re- wiring up my car. Now just to inform you these tests where done with the deck on a mat not installed, letting the wiring run free but not touching anything(this could also be the problem...)

One problem i encountered was that once the audio started to play, everytime i changed a track the speakers would make a poppin sound and u could see the speaker move in then pop out ;s;s.. could that be a bad ground? bad connection?

Also the amp would not turn on, i have the wire connected to turn on the amp.. i was thinkin maybe the wire got clipped while puttin back in my interior so i was going to try a direct connection from the deck to the amp.. Any suggestions?

If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated.. Thank you






Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 9:25 AM
could it be that the deck needs to be grounded as well. There is usually a ground wire that comes from the wiring harness of the deck that needs to be hooked up as well but i think some if not all decks are also grounded by the body of the deck by being installed. Might want to run another ground wire and touch the deck metal and see if that helps.

-------------
1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 9:30 AM
i did that, on my car's wiring harness the ground on there is "bad" so what i did was jus run a seperate wire to ground, for both the stock wirin harness and my deck ground to the same place, the deck turns on.. but would a bad ground on the deck affect the amp? cause i know when i had one of the grounds in a spot where i clearly knew would be crap but i tired it anyone, the deck would turn off, or adjust.. now it says adjust or if its adjusted still no amp and that kickin problem is still there ;s




Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 9:38 AM
Sounds like your getting some sort of feedback. My speakers pop a bit when I turn off my deck but not when i change tracks. Best thing i can offer is go back over all of your connections. Verify nothing is touching thats not suppose to be like additional speaker wires. Check your grounds again and make sure you are really getting a full on ground.

What direct connection from the deck to the amp are you talking about? There is usually a blue wire that powers the amp when the deck comes on. Get a test light and check to see if that wire is getting power to it when you turn the deck on. I read another post by someone that had a problem where that wire stopped powering his amps and decided that it was an internal problem with his deck.

-------------
1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 10:41 AM

hmm alright.. well my amp turn on , on my deck is blue with a white stripe, the blue one is power antenna.. Well i know the deck works fine i was using it in another car about 3-4 months ago. there must be some sort of connection touching or a short.. i dont get it though, i snipped/trimmed/soldeRED / electrical taped all the connections i thought this would be easy as pie, but i guess i was wrong.. but if the deck turns on, wouldnt that mean that the ground is sufficient?





Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 2:26 PM
Yes your wire is probably the blue/white wire I think on some models this wire is used for both amp and power antenna. Anyway, all I can sugest is recheck all wires and those that are not used make sure they are insulated so they can't touch anything. As for the ground, in most cases ya. if the deck has power then there is ground but it might not be a very good ground /shrug/ Also make sure none of your speaker wires or RCA plugs are near power wires.

-------------
1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 2:39 PM

yeahh ill re-check it out when i get home,  ill try changing the ground see if that does anything.. yeah i know my power is on the right side and speaker wiring and RCA's are on the left posted_image .. ill see wat the situation is.. hopefully that is the answer





Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 2:42 PM

oh btw

thanks i appreciate it





Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 3:36 PM
No problem at all. I try to help as much as I would like someone to help me. Unfortunately my knowledge isn't as good on this subject as a lot of others is. I know the basics, high watts need big cables and good grounds :) YOu would be surprised what a bad ground could do. Especially on early cars like mine. Bad ground could account for about 70% of the problems people have.

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1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 10:56 PM
i think i found the problemposted_image .. like one of the sticky's CHECK YOUR GROUND.. i grounded my deck and my harness to the E brake and works perfectly, the speakers dont pop loud anymore but the move a bit but u cant hear it.. THe only problem im having now is when i change tracks i am gettin humming sound, any idea on how to get rid of that? ive tried movin the connections off the ground but its still there




Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 04, 2006 at 10:57 PM
are you trying this stuff with the car off? Is your car in ACC or just ignition on?

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1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 05, 2006 at 2:02 AM
i would turn it off whenever i had 2 make an adjustment, but it was just ignition on, whats ACC?




Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 05, 2006 at 8:52 AM
ACC is accessories. When your testing your system you should have your ignition switched over to ACC. This turns off most everything but you can still run your system. In my car if I just have the ignition on then I can hear a slight noise due to my ignition coil. Usually starting the car stops it or turning the music on prevents you from hearing it. Try testing with the car started or in ACC mode.

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1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: ccguy
Date Posted: June 06, 2006 at 2:45 PM
Question: 06 Honda Pilot. Added a kicker 4 channel and a fosaget 2 channel off the stock radio. Using Tsunami hi to low at the headunit. And when the volume is down and you goto put into gear you get what sounds like a reverb coming from just the sub. Happens about every 2 minutes or as you drive. I have tried an noise filter and had no success.I have adjusted gains, swapped rcas, reground both the battery and the 2 amps,. ANY suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks............................ 




Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 06, 2006 at 10:17 PM
OK you said it happens every 2 min? Time it see if it's predictable. If so you need to find something in the car that electronically goes off every 2 min or what ever the time may be. Check your car manual and what ever else you can think of to track it down. Could be some radio freq that is bleeding over to your speakers which means something isn't grounded right or laying to close to something else...that would be my guess anyway.

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1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 08, 2006 at 2:44 PM
alright ill give that a shot, i never did it with the car on, jus the ACC i believe... i think i know what the problem is.. a ground loop. i think my RCA's are causin the problem. i was informed by a friend that i should splice the RCA a bit and try and ground that to the chassis to see if the humming stops when the tracks change, hopefully that works..... but i will give that a shot when i try it again and keep u posted.. thanks again




Posted By: aceracer24
Date Posted: June 08, 2006 at 11:45 PM
if you do that you could make things worse. You could either buy better RCA's or buy some that come with a ground wire. Pricey but if you end up borking the ones you have you might end up having to buy new ones anyway. SOme people say an RCA is an RCA but there are some really good ones out there. Other then shielded and good connectors, there isn't much different between one RCA and another...not when you compare the prices of some places anyway. Monster cable i think is over rated but /shrug thats me :)

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1968 VW Beetle
Pioneed DEH-780MP, 2 10' Memphis PR104D, Memphis PR500.1, TXC 6.1, MTX Thunder 8502




Posted By: italian_virus
Date Posted: June 09, 2006 at 11:47 AM

interesting

well i will fiddle around with it, and see what happens they are new RCA's so i have no idea ...





Posted By: slipone
Date Posted: June 15, 2006 at 10:00 PM
lol, i get noise when my air conditioner clicks on.

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Proudly stuffing large packages into small boxes since 1983.




Posted By: prime1984
Date Posted: July 05, 2006 at 4:59 PM
Hello all-
   I have a sirius starmate that I recently installed in my car(1998 Honda Civic). I was using the supplied cigarette adaptor to power it. It had bad alternator noise then, and now that I've hardwired it to the car's radio harness, the noise has not gone away. The noise was present when i was using the wireless FM transmitter, and it didn't change when i switched it to a wired fm transmitter. I don't get any noise when listening to the cd player, or when listening to AM or FM radio, just when listening to satellite radio. Any insight on how to solve this problem would be appreciated
-Thanks!




Posted By: feintfury
Date Posted: July 15, 2006 at 10:43 AM

Hello, I'm new to installing radios & I'm poor so I can't have someone install it for me.

Truck - '92 Ford F-150 premium sound system

Head unit - JVC Km-SX770 45wtx4

I have a couple questions to ask you.

See, I'm installing a JVC head unit into my truck & I was reading the JVC manual & saw it only works with a -12v ignition & battery hookup, & the manual said I needed to get a voltage inverter because my truck has a +12v battery.  Now I heard that I need a 10 watt voltage inverter & I just hook it up to the battery, is this correct?  If so, where can I find one & how do I hook it up?  I heard if hook up the wrong grounds you could burn your truck up.

I also have the premium sound system, so should I buy the harness for the premium, because my head unit has plenty of watts & channels for me. I also want to hookup an amp & sub in the future.

I know all the wire hookups & the like, I just need to fix the problem with my battery & harness basically.

Any feedback is appreciated.  Thanx





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: July 15, 2006 at 12:17 PM

Your manual more than likely has a misprint on it. All radios made in the last 20 years and probably more are a - ground and + power / ignition. You will not need a power invertor to hook this up. This should be a new cd player, correct? If so that is one whopper of a typo in the user manual.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: kungwaz
Date Posted: July 17, 2006 at 4:05 AM
Hi!
I'm kinda new to this, and I wounder how do I ground the HU ? Do I have to find a special spot on the HU, or just anywhere on the chassi of the HU ?
I have a JVC KD-G611.
At the moment I get this noise in my rear speakers wich are connected to an Amp. But the front system does not make this noise, and that's hooked directly to the HU. My power to the Amp goes on the right side of the car and the signal cable goes on the left side. And when I connect my Mp3 directly to the Amp the noise disapears. Am I right when I believe that it's the HU thats not properly grounded?

-------------
// KungWaz




Posted By: supersix4
Date Posted: August 01, 2006 at 2:40 PM

kungwaz - You didn't mention anything about the vehicle, but here are some things to check ... Your radio's wiring harness has a ground wire (probably a Black wire). Many installers use the vehicles' factory radio ground when installing the new radio. USUALLY this is fine ... sometimes it isn't. Just check to see where the JVC radio's ground wire is connected. If it is connected to the factory ground wire in the factory radio harness, disconnect it. Move it to a steel, grounded part of the dash structure. Running a ground wire to the rear of the car (or to wherever the amp(s) are grounded) is a waste of time. If grounding the radio to the vehicle chassis  does not solve the problem, try playing with the RCA's next. Strip the insulation off the end near the radio. Get a length of wire and try grounding the RCA's Shield to Chassis Ground. If this does not work, it's time to inspect the amplifier connections. The ground is most important. It should be as short a cable as possible. It should be connected solidly to clean, grounded steel. Then move on to the power connections. This should also be a solid connection. Cable gauge is also important. Are you using appropriate cabling? Next check all connections at the battery. Is the Battery itself in good condition? Are the clamps clean & tight? Are ALL the connections clean & tight? Is the Battery grounded to the Chassis correctly? Is the engine grounded to the Battery & Chassis correctly? Any frayed cables? You may want to consider upgrading the "Charge" cable. This is the cable that comes off the Alternator and goes to the Battery Positive Post. Many cars have a small Charge Wire.

Good Luck!!





Posted By: supersix4
Date Posted: August 01, 2006 at 2:57 PM

Feintfury - your Ford's electrical system is 12v, Neg ground. The JVC radio operates on a Neg Ground system as well. You do not need an inverter ... WOW! As mentioned, what a colossal misprint!

If the Ford Factory Radio Harness in still intact (uncut?), just go get a wiring harness adaptor. The wiring will be very simple that way - in fact, it ought to go color-to-color ... i.e. red-to-red, black-to-black, Green-to-Green, etc.

I've been doing this work for over 20 years & I don't recall ever working on a F-150 that had a factory amp, however, I see something new every week!! LOL!! My suggestion - if it's working correctly now, leave the Ford amp alone - the truck will sound better with it.





Posted By: johnpmcc33
Date Posted: August 11, 2006 at 8:12 AM
Hi,
I recently replaced the stock system in a Honda HRV with a new HU, amp, and speakers. I have a noise problem. The characteristics are as follows :

1. A high pitched whine that does not vary with Amp volume, it does however become momentarily more high pitched when the lights, fans or electric windows are engaged. A quick search around online seems to point to the fact that I am dealing with the dreaded "alternator whine".

2. It is not present all the time. (Although it is most of the time!). When I start to hear it I tip the drivers side electric window ie. moving it down or up by a mm or two. The whine dissapears, although only temporarily. The drivers side electric window is the only electrical component that has this affect. No other windows, lights, etc. have this temporary disabling affect. Over time on any given journey the effectiveness of this workaround tends to diminish.

3. Initial PD has revealed the fact that when the HU is removed from its metal in-dash housing the whine dissapears. As soon as any part of the HU shell touches the in-dash metal housing the whine is back. I get the same effect if I run a ground wire from the metal in-dash housing to the ground circuit of the HU (which incidentally is grounded to the same spot on the car's chassis as the amp).

Anyone any ideas?
Thanks,
John




Posted By: johnpmcc33
Date Posted: August 11, 2006 at 4:04 PM
OK, some more PD -

(My reasoning here is based on logic rather than any knowledge of the electronics so my conclusions could be ass ways but here goes)

HU - on my lap - no ground connected at all - I get a low frequency buzz and a whine. I take a ground wire that is connected to the car chassis and touch it off the HU shell - both the buzz and the whine completely dissapear. I take the same ground and connect it into the HU via it's wiring loom - same effect both the buzz and whine completely dissapear. So the ground appears to work well. Let's call this the good ground.

Ok so now I disconnect the good ground. LF buzz and whine back. When I touch the HU off the in-dash metal housing the LF buzz dissapears. The whine however does not. So the unit must be getting grounded somehow (even without it's own ground connected)..but badly. And here is the rub - touching the good ground off the HU shell while it is in contact with the in-dash metal housing now has no effect at all - it is as if once the HU is in contact with the metal housing it takes the bad ground ahead of the good ground.

Does this make any sense? And more importantly any ideas on how to fix it?

Thanks,
John




Posted By: jkaulback
Date Posted: August 23, 2006 at 6:45 PM

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping you can help me.  I just purchased a 2006 Saturn Ion and have installed my previous speakers, amps, and subs but kept the factory HU. The speakers are using the existing factory speaker wire, and the amps have tapped into this using speaker level inputs instead of RCAs (no RCAs on factory deck, no wiring harness exists for this model yet). I'm getting engine noise through my speakers. I've tried using line input converters at the back where my amps are, but I'm still getting the noise. How can I fix this without buying a new deck?

Thanks,

Jason





Posted By: mmii
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 12:24 AM
Okay Rob, hopefully you can help me with the alternator whine issue. Though after reading several of your posts with regard to Pioneer's bad internal grounds I wonder if that's the problem right there.
With that said here is the equipment:

- Pioneer DEH-P8600MP
- Alpine MRV-F340 Amp (for front components)
- Infinity 7251a Amp (for sub - bridged)
- JL Audio VR650csi component speakers
- Kicker TC10 Sub
- Car: 92 Maxima SE

How I performed install:
- grounded deck to body, not the harness ground
- rca's running down the centre of car
- 4ga power wire (driver side) routed to unfused dist block in trunk.
- power split via 6ga to 2 amps (one for speakers - one for sub)
- 6ga grounds from amps routed to unfused block
- final 6ga ground crimped with ring and bolted to sanded part of chasis (have tried various alternate locations with no change in whine).

The system sounds great with the engine off - no whine. With the engine running however, I have to blast the volume to wash out the whine.
The only thing I suspect (other than the questionable bad Pioneer internal ground) is trying other RCA's. The ones I used are no-name, but they are new, twisted, and sheilded. Not sure what other options I may have if this doesn't work.

Thanks in advance for your help!





Posted By: supersix4
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 12:43 AM
mmii, have you performed "The Big Three"? If not, do it. If you are certain that everything is installed correctly, and that the car's battery & charging system are in top condition, try a different source unit ... like your shops' test bench radio. Or, if you don't have a shop radio, use a home audio receiver. Just get some longer RCA's to run into the car. Attach the new inputs to the existing RCA's behind the radio with barrel connectors. That should either confirm or eliminate the head unit as the source of the noise.

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Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 1:08 PM

Thanks for registering on the site. I hope you find the info here useful. There is a boatload of tech info here that is not available to you on the other site at this time. Stay awhile and learn if you like, ask questions, there are no stupid ones that I or others have not heard 1000's of times (OK some of us old guys 10,000 + times).

The issue is definitely going to be with the Pioneer head unit. If you can borrow a friends cd player, give it a try and see if you get noise. Failing that, try temporarily attaching a ground wire to the back center screw mount on the cd player. The other end of the wire I want you to touch to the outer shield of one of the rca outputs on the back of the cd player. If the noise goes away, you need to attach that bare end to the shield of one of the rca cables.

This of course is a band aid solution. The cd player has been damaged and needs service or replacement. If you are open to options on a better cd player, I will recommend the Eclipse line as I have for over 11 years now. Your ears will thank you, especially when you start to hear things in your music that you did not hear before.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: mmii
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 5:31 PM
Thanks Rob. Assuming there are no stupid questions here, let me ask this... even though it is a band-aid solution, is there a "proper" way to attach the bare end of the ground to the outer shield of the RCA?
Do I just fold the bare wire over the edge of the RCA, basically wedging it under and plug it in to the HU? Or do I actually strip a portion of an RCA and join them together?

(why do I still feel like I still asked a stupid question?) lol posted_image




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 5:43 PM

That would be a definite NO to your idea as it can lead to dead shorting the rca outputs. Not the best of ideas. What I like to do is strip back a portion of the rca cables outer plastic barrier to expose the outer shield of the rca cable. Then I will wrap a wire onto it, solder in into place and then heatshrink it. This of course works with the molded end type of rca cable. With a removeable end on the rca cable it is as simple as just that, remove the end, solder another wire onto the outer shield wire, attach the end again, ground the new wire.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: mmii
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 6:53 PM
Got ya. I figured I'd get the big no on that first idea.

Short of soldering the new wire in, can I just twist it in with essentialy the same end result?




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 9:22 PM

You certainly can.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: mmii
Date Posted: September 27, 2006 at 10:39 PM
Fabulous. Thanks Rob and to anyone else who contributed. Will report back with my results at some point...

Cheers!




Posted By: mmii
Date Posted: September 29, 2006 at 4:13 PM
Ok. I'm back from the great audio abyss to give you my report...
Well Rob, your suggestion to tap into the HU RCA out with a ground wire instantly shut my alternator whine up. Not even a hint of whine remains. Wow, I'm truly grateful. Though the victory is bittersweet considering how many hours I spent rechecking my work before coming here for help.

My question now is, why is this fix only a band-aid solution?
I know this is not how the HU is supposed to function from the factory, but it works! Is the HU at risk if it isn't serviced?

Thank you again!
MMII




Posted By: ro,boy,to
Date Posted: October 04, 2006 at 9:45 PM

I have recently installed all my system, except for the ground, as it is the only part im not sure of. I drive a 1998 Ford Expedition XLT, help would be greatly appreciated, as i miss my...stock music ha.



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With Age, Comes Wisdom, I HOPE




Posted By: rodneydtracy
Date Posted: October 05, 2006 at 6:03 PM

Hey forbidden! First of all, I need to apologize,  I have what is apparently a similar problem to mmii's, and have been discussing it on a different thread ( when I checked this thread out before posting I guess I didn't go far enough into it) but the other thread is bogged down, and I was wondering if you could help.

My stepdad's system is pretty simple, 4 6x9's, a 12" sub, and a 5 channel kenwood amp. He had a Kenwood KDC-s5009 indash, and I recently tried 'upgrading' him to a KDC9015 I had sitting around.

Here's the thing I can't figure out: With the original indash the system sounded great. With the new one I get this mild high pitched noise with the car off and an obnoxious alternator noise with the car running. I put the old indash back in, no noise. All the wiring is the same, I even tried using the older unit's wiring harness with the newer unit (they are the same harness) and the noise is still there.

The noise doesn't go away if I unplug the antenna, or in I leave the antenna plugged in and unhook the ground wire. It is still there if either the front or rear RCAs (or both) are hooked up. (The system is all run off of the Kenwood 5 channel, no speakers are run off of the indash.

Oh, I forgot, the newer unit also has the kenwood dashtop display unit and compass that go with it, but the noise is still there even with that unplugged. Also, the newer indash has the higher output 4.5v preamps.It is really annoying, because the 9015 looks great and all the features work on it. It is all installed in a '93 Dodge Ramcharger, if that makes a difference.

I have tried the method suggested of grounding the outside of the RCAs, but when I did it actually made the noise louder, both when the truck is running and when its not. ( I grounded the RCAs to the same factory ground strap the indash is grounded to.

This is the name of the other thread:Kenwood indash noise problem?  I apologize if I'm breaking any rules here by posting in two threads simultaneously, I don't use forums that often.

Can you help me? I am extremely frustrated.

While I wait helplessly, I am goind to go out and try running different RCAs from the indash to the amp, to see if it makes any difference.





Posted By: gonethavorn
Date Posted: October 14, 2006 at 6:10 AM
Need help ASAP. I own a 93 Lexus SC300 and just installed a Jensen 7 inch in-dash monitor, but now I have alternator whine. I had a pretty cheap Line Out Converter, amplifier, and subwoofer installed,  just before the  Jensen and when I had the factory unit it had no problems with any kind of engine noise. The previous owner already had wires ran for the installation of the amp, so I just used the ones that were already in there for the time being. Later on today I'm going to try and change all wiring. But if anybody has suggestions let me know. Thanks alot...Gone Thavorn




Posted By: clem56
Date Posted: October 17, 2006 at 9:41 PM

Hi, I signed up on this site just to talk to you, Rob.

I've been tryin to figure out this problem for about a week, and I'm just stumped.

2006 Chevy colorado

Pioneer DEH...something or another... headunit
Bazooka ELA 300.1 amp
Crunch GTR subs

I had 2 bazooka subs, upgraded to the crunches, then i wired it differently, but wired them right back to the way I normally had them (i'm thinking i wired them at a lower impedence when i changed). Ever since then I had alot of engine noise, and everytime I cut on and off my amp I get a thud. Also, when i cut the volume from 0 to 1 there's a pop.

I tried a few things, a ground loop isolator (which cut out the sound...but also the music), then tried my buddy's 1200w RMS audiobahn amp, and it didn't cut it out either....now he's saying that he has road noise with it back in his car, too...but I'm not sure, he may just be paranoid.

With the engine off, I can hear the noise of the cd spinning, anything electical (blinkers, etc), and even if i tap on the head unit, i can hear it all through the subs.

I've noticed that the traffic in this room has slowed, but I'm hoping that somebody will help me out with my problem.

I just bought a new Audiobahn head unit with 4v preouts (as opposed to my Pioneer's 2v), which should be here in about a week, I'll see if it helps.

Please, anybody, let me know that my money hasn't gone down the drain, and I can recover my system.



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The Clem's system:
Current:
Audiobahn Head
Audiobahn A8000T amp
2 Crunch GTR-D2 350w RMS 12" Subs




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: October 17, 2006 at 11:40 PM
Chances are better than the average bear that it is the headunit that is the culprit. Take a small length of wire and bare the ends on it. Attach one end to ground on the cd player. Take the other end and wrap it around the shield of one of the rca cables where it plugs into the cd player and see if that gets rid of the noise. Post back the results.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: clem56
Date Posted: October 18, 2006 at 9:29 AM
I hooked it up like you said, nothing permanent though, just 2 wraps so it probably wasn't the best connection but it cut the sound out a LOT. I don't have the popping noises when I cut the amp on/off, but I still have a little bit of engine noise, though it was reduced greatly.

So where do I go from here?

-Clem

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The Clem's system:
Current:
Audiobahn Head
Audiobahn A8000T amp
2 Crunch GTR-D2 350w RMS 12" Subs




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: October 18, 2006 at 12:40 PM
The cd player itself is the culprit (surprise surprise). The unit needs to go for service or be replaced with say an Eclipse....posted_image

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: pbred11583
Date Posted: October 18, 2006 at 1:34 PM
I just installed a new stereo into my 99 Ford Contour.  When I turned the radio on, it was making a loud repetitive thumping noise.  I checked my wire connections and they appeared to be tight.  Do you know what else I should check for.




Posted By: aaronswb2
Date Posted: October 28, 2006 at 5:36 PM

I really need some help here. I believe I have a ground problem but cannot figure it out.

First, here's my set up: 2004 jeep wrangler X, alpine cda-9857 cd player w/ I-pod hook up, PPI pcx-2200, PPI pcx-280, JL 12w6v2, diamond audio 3-way hex component set in the front run off of the ppi pcx 280, and a set of diamond audio mid-bass run off of the head unit.

The problem I have is a whining/clicking sound when the car is turned on as well as alternator noise. When you run the stereo with the car off there is almost no noise. Also, when you change from the radio to cd, or cd to ipod, etc... there is a loud thump. The thump also occurs when the volume is turned all the way down, but not when the radio is turned on or off.

So far I have rewired all of the speakers thinking there might be a short in one of them, and re-grounded the headunit and amps. I also changed the location of the cross-overs. I may have wasted a bunch of money, but I replaced all my cables with really good monster rca's and twisted speaker cable. The HU is grounded directly to the firewall and powered directly from the battery. The amps have 4-guage cable both in and out and are grounded at a single point about a foot away.  

Any ideas or suggestions would really help, THANKS!!





Posted By: manthatufear
Date Posted: November 01, 2006 at 10:02 PM
ok i am haveing a problem with a ground i think?
i recently bought a 1998 grand am and tonight i was wireing me pioneer radio and my kenwood amp which i had recently in a past car i had and worked fine but in this one when ever i have my rca jacks connected to the amp the amp feeds back with any contac with the radio so i dunno if theirs a ground loop in the car but i have my ground wire goin to the trunck fram and is well grounded and have tried 2 amps and i got the same results with both so if you have any suggestion plz reply thanx




Posted By: kirb112
Date Posted: November 29, 2006 at 9:19 PM
1998 Honda Accord LX

I have had whining problems with my system for a very long time now. I am finally getting around to trying to fix it. At first, I had pretty poor wuality RCAs. I then replaced all of my RCAs with top-of-the-line RCAs. I have a set of 4 channel RCAs going from my HU to an electronic crossover in my trunk (for my 4channel mid & high amp). The crossover is gounded with a 14ga wire that is less than a foot long. I also have another set of 2ch RCAs going from the HU to the crossover (for my sub amp). From the crossover I have another set of 4 channel RCAs going to my mid & high amp, and a 2-channel set going to my sub amp. The sub amp is on the back of my rear seat, and the 4-channel amp is under my driver seat. I have a capacitor in the trunk as well. The cap and the sub amp share a common ground in the trunk. I scraped all the paint off and grounded them together. The 4-ch amp under my seat is grounded to the seat mount. I have a 0ga wire coming from the battery to the cap, then from the cap to a distribution block uner my rear seat. I have a 4 ga wire coming off the block for my sub amp, a 8 ga wire for my 4-ch amp, and a 14 ga wire that runs up to a reote turn-on relay that I have in my fusepanel. The remote turn ons for both of my amps and my crossover come off this relay. I got the diagram on how to wire the relay off of this site. WHEW! I think I have given all the details.

I know the problem is not the crossover because I had the problem before I got the crossover; when I had the RCAs running straight to the amps.

PLEASE help my fix this problem. I have been dealing with it for over a year now. I have looked at gound loop isolators, but I didnt want to buy any if there was another way to fix the problem. I don't mind buying them though, they are not expensive.




Posted By: honda_civic_si
Date Posted: December 04, 2006 at 2:59 AM
Ok So i went through a few of the the posts in this section. I didn't know that ground can be such a problem in electrical. Geesh....well anyway.....i couldn't find what i needed so i'm posting.

So i hooked up a few head units in cars before. It's pretty easy cut and dry to install a basic stereo head unit in a car. From what i understand and have been doing is just getting the correct wiring harness for the correct vehicle.....just cut the wires, reconnect them with the correct wiring harness and you're good to go. But How come whenever i connect the GROUND WIRE, to the GROUND wire to it's nesassary BLACK wire of the car, it never works? But then when i ground the wire from the stereo to the ground chasis, it seems to work fine? I don't understand it.

Some one please educate me on this?

thanks in advanced




Posted By: DjRDifacs
Date Posted: December 04, 2006 at 10:47 PM
I am currently running 2 amps. I have 4guage power wire to a distro block, then 8guage power wire to each amp. Both amps have 8 guage ground wire as well. I will be upgrading my sup amp to a Kenwood Excelon KAC-X812D mono amp with 4 guage power inputs. Should I change my 8 guage ground to a 4 guage ground for the Kenwood?

Thanks in advance.




Posted By: bradreeves94
Date Posted: February 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM
I have a 1996 Toyota Camry 4-door, I have a 1,000 Watt Sony Amplifier. I am trying to find a good ground location in the trunk to use as the ground for my amp..any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance

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Brad Reeves




Posted By: tre918
Date Posted: February 24, 2009 at 12:16 AM
ok I just got a new deck an a wire with a build in fuse holder to run inline with the deck,. I got it grounded to the harness an chassis of the car, But my amp is still shutting down,I'm thinking I need new ground wire or remote, or a bigger fuse, My amp will shut off an it won't be hot or nothing it just shut's down.

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Trent Schmidt




Posted By: tre918
Date Posted: May 29, 2009 at 9:14 AM
SO I found out that it was my sub, guess that's what I get for hookin up a pioneer to a memphis street edge amp, that thing pounds hard core for only 200 watts.

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Trent Schmidt




Posted By: hemiboy29
Date Posted: August 24, 2009 at 3:15 PM
flynntech wrote:

This is just my opinion so don't take it for gospel, running a ground wire all the way to the back is impractiacal. The only thing that makes any sense here is that all grounds should be at the same potential, zero volts.

Yes, the factory wiring is rarely in any kind of shape to supply clean power to the HU, this is common.  Ground the HU to the body right about where the HU is, if you have to run a ground directly to the firewall or floor, that's fine. Also, bring 12 + directly from the battery, fused as always.

A muting plug is simply an RCA plug with the two conductors shorted together. Anyone can do this with a pig tail, by splicing the wiring with a crimp. Soldering the pins together is better.

Just remember: DO NOT CONNECT THE MUTING PLUGS TO THE OUTPUT!!! 

The only purpose of the muting plug is to zero the input signal at the line level INPUTS......It will short the output stages of the HU or whatever else, since it is indeed a shorted plug.


Thanks for the great advise i am going to try this on my ride i have eng. noise that drives me crazy!!!





Posted By: hemiboy29
Date Posted: August 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM
I would go off of the truck latch... its great ground....




Posted By: custombass
Date Posted: August 24, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Check to make sure that you are not overloading your amp. Make sure that you are using the proper size wire for both your ground and power to your amplifier. Check all connections to ensure no loose connectors or wires are hampering the performance of your amp.

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Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 10:16 PM
I just got done with the big three in my car.  I put the alternator positive to battery positive, the battery negative to strut tower, and battery negative to alternator bolt. Also the two explod amps in my trunk are run to a distribution block and then run into a strut tower.  I was told that the alternator is absolute ground in a car therefore it and a nice clean strut tower are the best grounds.  But!!!!! my lights are still dimming.  I have the big three done, an optima yellow top, and a db electrical 200a alternator my cap says im idleing at 15v when long bass notes hit it drops to around 12v, 11.5 at the lowest.  DB electrical says the alternator will hit 189a at 1500 rpms.  But when im runnin those 1500 rpms im still dimmin.  My amps are cheap xplod 1000 watt. theres no way they really acheive 2000 watts so its not really straining my electrical system.  Does this mean I have bad grounds

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Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs




Posted By: tre918
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 10:26 PM
I would say tryin grounding your amp to the chassie of the car, like on the side or under the rear deck, be sure to scrap of the paint to bare metal.

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Trent Schmidt




Posted By: berzina123
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 1:12 AM
Chances are better than the average bear that it is the headunit that is the culprit. Take a small length of wire and bare the ends on it. Attach one end to ground on the cd player. Take the other end and wrap it around the shield of one of the rca cables where it plugs into the cd player and see if that gets rid of the noise. Post back the results.

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Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 5:38 AM
Interesting term "absolute ground" for/from the alternator.
I wonder how it compares to a battery (absolute?) ground?

Does absolute ground have a specific meaning at this site - or is it another one of those terms where I reckon I know what they mean (in a certain context or example).... etc etc, but it's not a bonafide term (unlike absolute zero etc)?

FYI - I see that Master DYohn refers to absolute ground as being the alternator casing and this is fine (and logical) for a charging system since the battery ground will NOT be lower than "a charging alternator's" ground (but it may be higher).
But if talking about a discharging system, the absolute ground is the battery ground.
Hence my pedantic query - is AbsGnd a "fixed" location of reference point. (I suspect not - it should obviously vary with each "reference" situation.)




Posted By: sgtpepperaut
Date Posted: January 26, 2010 at 7:53 AM
i almost give up. maybe someone has an idea what to do next?

have a carpc with M2ATC dc to dc power supply using a SILVERSTONE DAC

grounded pc chasis +m2atx + motherboard and even cover plate. no change still some static.

computer uses oversized wires and all ground run to the same point. (amp + pc)

using a ground loop isolator the high freq. static goes away (or at least is heavily reduced) but a lower frequency (id say about 15 hz) starts to appear.

the noise is clearly carried in the USB wire and it seems as the DAC is strongly affected by it. I also tried grounding the DAC board directly which resulted in even more noise!


im at the end of my knowledge if anyone has any ideas where to look next please let me know.





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