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Vehicle Fire, Poor Stereo Install

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Forum Name: Car Audio - Hot Topics
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URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=79645
Printed Date: February 27, 2021 at 10:32 AM


Topic: Vehicle Fire, Poor Stereo Install

Posted By: elicoleman
Subject: Vehicle Fire, Poor Stereo Install
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 1:36 PM

I am a firefighter in California and I do installs on the side. Just wanted to share a incident I went on the other day.

We have a fully involved vehicle fire in a brand new Chrysler 300. The guy had a full systen installed a few days prior to this. It included everything, HU, speakers, 3 subs, 3 amps, cap ect. This "professional" installer only had one fuse at the battery for all amps. I could not read the amperage since it was burned up like the rest of the vehicle, but my guess is it was too large since it did not blow. There was no fuse at anywhere near the amp's and the capacitor terminals were about 1" from the metal body in the trunk. The owner of the car said he heard a arcing sound in the trunk area then smelt smoke. He pulled over and the trunk was fully involved. It quickly spread to the rest of the car.

Thats all, just wanted to share this story. I am in a business were I get to see the end result of poor installs.

Morale's of the story:   Fuses are a installers best friend
                                        Metal and capacitors don't mix




Replies:

Posted By: MrSuperStar
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 2:54 PM
I have a similar experience, but not as severe.

I was listening to a system that was recently installed at Best Buy when the owner of the car and I smelled smoke.

I looked in the trunk and noticed that the ground connection was getting so hot that it started to heat the carpet that was covering it.

End result was just a small burn spot, but it could have been worse had we no caught it in time.

Poor grounds cause high resitance, heat, and fires.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 5:37 PM

You know what is really funny. There is a thread on CarAudio.com right now (that they just banned me for no reason but that is beside the point), that the guy has run no fewer than 4 0 guage lines from his battery with ZERO fuses in it. Then he pronounced the above post as being retarded when I linked to it. So everyone go visit the thread, something about new pics noobx or something like that and point and laugh. I can see them banning me for telling him that that is improper but if it is how they do it .....

Somone go find the thread and link to it.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: bdl666
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 6:24 PM
forbidden wrote:

You know what is really funny. There is a thread on CarAudio.com right now (that they just banned me for no reason but that is beside the point), that the guy has run no fewer than 4 0 guage lines from his battery with ZERO fuses in it. Then he pronounced the above post as being retarded when I linked to it. So everyone go visit the thread, something about new pics noobx or something like that and point and laugh. I can see them banning me for telling him that that is improper but if it is how they do it .....

Somone go find the thread and link to it.


That is retarded getting banned just because you suggested he install some fuses on that mess he calls wiring.

Then again it could be because you reminded him of the place he grew up and has work so hard to get away from.

https://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167543&page=4

*EDIT*   I just looked at his profile he's just a 20 and by the looks of it very immature.



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ieSpell rocks.




Posted By: luckydevil
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 6:43 PM
*He* has "moderator" in his sig. You angered the wrong internet thug forbidden.

Looking at his install pictures makes me cringe.

I just read another post later in the thread where he claims he is a professional installer. Okay, that's just scary.




Posted By: elicoleman
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 6:58 PM

As I mentioned above, the guy with the Chrysler said he took it to a professional shop for the work. I thought he was crazy when he told me this because I would think no professional installer would make this simple mistake, but I guess I am the crazy one.





Posted By: electrostatic
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 7:00 PM
forbidden,
all i have to say is wow. way too overconfidentposted_image what a fool!

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Prove your connections, use a meter!
I promise, I'll behave!




Posted By: zhalverson
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 8:10 PM

WOW!  Makes me even more grateful there is a place like this where knowledgeable, mature people can discuss car audio without all that.  Unbelievable...





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 8:44 PM
You know what though, when I was 20 I thought I knew it all as well. All this guy has proven is that he does in fact no nothing and is not willing to listen and learn. Perhaps I was a little abrasive to the guy but if he can't take it, why dish it out? Lets see, no insurance if his vehicle burns, hard pill to swallow at 20 years old.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 9:34 PM

elicoleman, did you notice if this install had a fused distro block?  If it did, then the fusing sounds appropriate to me.  If there's one main power wire it would use only one fuse.  Could be that the fuse didn't blow because the power wire never shorted to ground before the distro block.  Perhaps the electrical system was rendered out of order before the power wire insulation burned off.  The distro fuses would have blown when the cap shorted to chassis.  I'd have to do some CSI stuff on this one to be sure of the reason, but it reasons that the cap discharged into the chassis because of its bad install location, combusted nearby carpeting or something, and... goodbye 300.  Fuses couldn't save the car in this case.

Another good reason to forego the cap.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: otter
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 9:34 PM
well, all I can say is that I am really happy to live in my "what if world" where I fuse my power wires, and my alternator wires, and don't have to worry if for some odd reason something rattles loose!

don't let that deush get to you... you help many people with great information every day!



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Posted By: elicoleman
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 10:47 PM
stevdart wrote:

elicoleman, did you notice if this install had a fused distro block?  If it did, then the fusing sounds appropriate to me.  If there's one main power wire it would use only one fuse.  Could be that the fuse didn't blow because the power wire never shorted to ground before the distro block.  Perhaps the electrical system was rendered out of order before the power wire insulation burned off.  The distro fuses would have blown when the cap shorted to chassis.  I'd have to do some CSI stuff on this one to be sure of the reason, but it reasons that the cap discharged into the chassis because of its bad install location, combusted nearby carpeting or something, and... goodbye 300.  Fuses couldn't save the car in this case.

Another good reason to forego the cap.


No dist. block. Had one 4gw going from the batt to 1st amp then a jumper 8gw from the 1st amp to the second. Had a fuse at the battery for the 4gw.  It was hard to tell, but it didn't look like the fuse blew. I could not tell what size fuse it was either. I had to do a little CSI for the report and in my opinion the cap arced to the body and the sparks ignighted the upolstery on the back side of the rear seat, which was also exposed, and about 2" from the cap. I don't think the lack of fusing was the direct cause, but it didn't help. Who knows, the only thing I am 99.9% sure of is the fire was caused by a poor stereo install and it started in the vicinity of the capacitor.

No comment on those super installers on the other forum. Thats what I only use the 12 volt for advise.





Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:16 PM
Curious that a standard 12volt electrical system would have the energy to arc over an inch air space.  It take about 25,000 volts to jump a 1/4" spark plug gap. Besides it would take the shortest route and arc to the negative terminal on the cap.  Must be different cause.  Was the cap damaged by being squeased to tight?  Also, materials used in cars are designed not to burn, and a not likely to catch fire by an arc.  Was the power wire pinched, but this would have blown the fuse.




Posted By: elicoleman
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:32 PM

lspker wrote:

Curious that a standard 12volt electrical system would have the energy to arc over an inch air space.  It take about 25,000 volts to jump a 1/4" spark plug gap. Besides it would take the shortest route and arc to the negative terminal on the cap.  Must be different cause.  Was the cap damaged by being squeased to tight?  Also, materials used in cars are designed not to burn, and a not likely to catch fire by an arc.  Was the power wire pinched, but this would have blown the fuse.

Maybe the cap was not secure and it wobbled into the body. Materials in cars DO burn. I see it everyday. Carpet is designed to not sustain combustion, but other materials in vehicles will burn hot and fast. I don't really know exactly how the fire started and I really don't care. I do know it was a poor install and like I said before, 99.9% sure it caused the fire. That leaves the remaining 0.1% chance of spontanious combustion or a meteor strike.

And I am no electrician, but if you need 25,000 volts to jump 1/4", then how did I shock my little brother with my finger growing up by rubbing my feet on the carpet. Pretty sure I didn't generate 25,000v.





Posted By: audiocableguy
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:35 PM
I was taught that you fuse everytime you change wire size and of course always within 18" of the battery. This includes Aux batteries in and out. The main fuse is to protect the wire, not the gear. I believe there was a previous post stating as long as you run the same guage of wire to all your amps (assuming the wire guage can handle the entire load) you can use 1 main fuse and a non-fused distro. A Fused Disto is to break out of the larger wire to feed other loads, usually smaller guage needing smaller fuses.

Tonight was the first time I visited caraudio.com After reading a few posts it will be the last time. Most of the comments were uneducated, clueless and flat out lame! Support Public Education so I can sleep better.




Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:50 PM

Rob, you are now on path for forum wars!! Don't worry dog, I got yo back! There might even be a chance of forum terrorists.

Ignorance is bliss, at least until you destroy your gear, car, and yourself... 



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Posted By: ngsm13
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:57 PM
Awww, report back to your chronies? Get a little butt-hurt and need some e-love from your groupies?

I'm not here to cause problems, I'll be here to browse and learn.

If there's so much to learn here, we'll see.

1. Never made fun of this thread. It is apparently an example of an extremely poor install, with no precautions taken whatsoever. I would probably take legal action.

2. I have taken my precautions, different then yours. But I guess I should get used to it, this seems like a "by the book"... and "on paper" type place... where if it breaks what is generally accepted as the norm... it's looked down upon.

3. I like my POS truck. That's all that matters, your feeble attempts at personal criticism are astonishing for the type of people you play yourselves off to be.

I'm still in the SPL phase, and competition style rubs off on me. You guys would drop dead walking into dBDrag World Finals lanes... wow. I'm talking prolly in excess of 1000ft. of 1/0, and well over 80 group31 batteries. No fuses to be seen. BUT, other precautions are taken. Why don't you go over to Termpro.com forums and criticize world champions and world record holders?

Like I said, to each his own. If you "high class" people get off on criticizing my work, and making childish comments about my life... then go for it. I'll be fine, in white suburbia, in Ohio.

otter] wrote:

don't let that deush get to you... you help many people with great information every day!


Also, learn to spell. *EDITED*.

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I use fuses sparingly.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 26, 2006 at 11:57 PM

Perhaps Karma will get him. My crystal ball is predicting a vehicle fire regardless of how safe he thinks he is. Lets see, that is a sure fire (haha) way to also have ZERO insurance as well. I can go without that site and others no doubt. What I really find funny is that this person, who is apparantly a moderator, does not realize that he is also telling all the other people who may read the thread that it is alright to do what he is doing. It is not alright, it is dangerous. What if he is in an accident and his passenger is now trapped. The line short circuits, the vehicle is up in flames and while he may be out, his passenger is in there burning alive. All this idiot thinks about is himself. I really hope someone links to this thread for him and he reads this as well. What he is doing is wrong and dangerous. Lets see, add on a fuel leak and another car that perhaps ran a red light, now you have a much bigger problem. The single biggest danger on the road today, is the 16-25 year old male driver....with an attitude like his, now you know why.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:06 AM

Well, welcome to this forum non the less. This and any forum I am on, you are always welcome to come and learn. There is something to learn every single day. I after 20 years in the bay, continue to learn new things as well. Again, you have a sizeable investment in your system and your vehicle, all I and other professional people in the industry want for you is to protect your investment, yourself and any other occupants. Dude, I have no idea as why you gave me a ban other than you may not have agreed with what I said. I was a little abrasive sure, this is how I am though. The school of hard knocks is where my mistakes have come from over the last 20 years and I will continue to learn from my mistakes as well.

There are many people on this site, myself included, that if tasked to build a world record holder, certainly could take on this task in a safe manner. I would love to see the SPL side of this business make proper fusing mandatory. If this was a trailer queen, I could see the no fuse issue and agree with it as well. If this is a daily driver, the fuses just have to be there. I realize that it may not be an expense that you want to incur, it is however the best start that you can do to make a difference to what other people see and think. Consider what I am saying here. Other people on the site may not be so rational sometimes and it shows in their posts as well. As a senior industry member I am quite rational and highly applicable at how I do things. Consider the options here dude. Hope to hear back from you.

Mods, do not ban this person please, lets give him a chance to meet on the same ground.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: ngsm13
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:09 AM
forbidden wrote:

Perhaps Karma will get him. My crystal ball is predicting a vehicle fire regardless of how safe he thinks he is. Lets see, that is a sure fire (haha) way to also have ZERO insurance as well. I can go without that site and others no doubt. What I really find funny is that this person, who is apparantly a moderator, does not realize that he is also telling all the other people who may read the thread that it is alright to do what he is doing. It is not alright, it is dangerous. What if he is in an accident and his passenger is now trapped. The line short circuits, the vehicle is up in flames and while he may be out, his passenger is in there burning alive. All this idiot thinks about is himself. I really hope someone links to this thread for him and he reads this as well. What he is doing is wrong and dangerous. Lets see, add on a fuel leak and another car that perhaps ran a red light, now you have a much bigger problem. The single biggest danger on the road today, is the 16-25 year old male driver....with an attitude like his, now you know why.




Get this, I GUARANTEE it's not gonna happen. Remember my username, I'll still be on ca.com in 2...3...6years, and I'll have a brand spankin new truck by then.

Get over it, get over my project truck, get over yourself Mr. Middle-Aged know-it-all... glad you can predict the future as well posted_image what will my next dog's name be?

I'll also be around, and GUARANTEE that even if I am in a wreck... my electrical won't cause any problems. So, mark my words... and mark yours too. I'll still be around.

Anyways, learn me... learn me something...

nG

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I use fuses sparingly.




Posted By: coppellstereo
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:14 AM
Why does he need so much power wire?
What is he running anyway!?

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Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:22 AM
This is a SPL vehicle where the entire premise is get as much power from the alternator to the rear batteries.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: audiocableguy
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:22 AM
Wayne Harris did have this to say over at Termpro.com

"... Also, don't forget to install 150-amp circuit breakers at each end of the power cable running from the front to the rear of the car. The circuit breakers will protect the vehicle in case of a short somewhere along the length of the cable"







Posted By: ngsm13
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:27 AM
audiocableguy wrote:

Wayne Harris did have this to say over at Termpro.com

"... Also, don't forget to install 150-amp circuit breakers at each end of the power cable running from the front to the rear of the car. The circuit breakers will protect the vehicle in case of a short somewhere along the length of the cable"






Wayne Harris indeed ;).

As stated though, take a trip to World Finals... check out the lanes ;) (Especially SuperStreet...)

nG

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I use fuses sparingly.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:43 AM
Guys, lets keep this civil for him here as well please. He has made the choice to register on this site and perhaps learn and share his insight at the same time. Everyone can learn something, I do every single day.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 1:13 AM
ngsm13 wrote:

forbidden wrote:

Perhaps Karma will get him. My crystal ball is predicting a vehicle fire regardless of how safe he thinks he is. Lets see, that is a sure fire (haha) way to also have ZERO insurance as well. I can go without that site and others no doubt. What I really find funny is that this person, who is apparantly a moderator, does not realize that he is also telling all the other people who may read the thread that it is alright to do what he is doing. It is not alright, it is dangerous. What if he is in an accident and his passenger is now trapped. The line short circuits, the vehicle is up in flames and while he may be out, his passenger is in there burning alive. All this idiot thinks about is himself. I really hope someone links to this thread for him and he reads this as well. What he is doing is wrong and dangerous. Lets see, add on a fuel leak and another car that perhaps ran a red light, now you have a much bigger problem. The single biggest danger on the road today, is the 16-25 year old male driver....with an attitude like his, now you know why.




Get this, I GUARANTEE it's not gonna happen. Remember my username, I'll still be on ca.com in 2...3...6years, and I'll have a brand spankin new truck by then.

Get over it, get over my project truck, get over yourself Mr. Middle-Aged know-it-all... glad you can predict the future as well posted_image what will my next dog's name be?

I'll also be around, and GUARANTEE that even if I am in a wreck... my electrical won't cause any problems. So, mark my words... and mark yours too. I'll still be around.

Anyways, learn me... learn me something...

nG

How can you guarantee some drunk driver wont run a light and slam into you? I was in a big wreck in my last truck, it ended up going end over end in a ditch, and it wasnt my fault, I had a undiagnosed medical condition that caused me to black out at the wheel. Anyways the front end of my truck crumpled and the engine actually ended up basicly in the passanger side seat. In the process it destroyed well over half my SPL system and completly severed both wires I had running to the battery in behind the sub box from the front batteries. Obviously when this kinda damage happens you can imagine I was leaking gas like mad. Now in my case I had circuit breakers at both ends of my wire and both of those breakers blew. Would my vehicle have caught fire, who knows. But what I do know is that it took over 30 minutes to cut me out of the vehicle AFTER the rescue teams arrived on the scene because they had to cut down trees to get to my vehicle and then had to basiclly peel off the roof to get me out. See where Im going with this.  If the Vehicle had caught fire its pretty much assured I would not be typing this right now. As I said in the other forum, it IS your truck and MY opinion is mine and nothing else, but I can assure you that I will never run a power wire in my vehicle without this kinda protection on it. And I can also say that I have used that conduit you are using and its great stuff, but I can guarantee you that if thats all I was depending on to protect my wire when I got into my accident, that stuff wouldnt have stood a chance.



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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 1:15 AM
BTW Rob, I think he didnt ban you for telling him he should of fused, I think he banned you for calling him Trailer Trash, but I could be wrong ;)

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 1:19 AM

ngsm13 wrote:


I'm still in the SPL phase, and competition style rubs off on me. You guys would drop dead walking into dBDrag World Finals lanes... wow. I'm talking prolly in excess of 1000ft. of 1/0, and well over 80 group31 batteries. No fuses to be seen. BUT, other precautions are taken. Why don't you go over to Termpro.com forums and criticize world champions and world record holders?


These vehicles you are talking about are not standard vehicles driven on the street, they are made for SPL contests. Being that your truck is your everyday driver it doesnt fall under the same catagory as these and hence should not have the same shortcuts taken



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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 1:21 AM

Yah, my bad and I apologize to him as well. Like I said, I am a championship smart *** and tell it like it is sometimes. I earned and can take the ban, no big deal.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: audiocableguy
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 1:25 AM
Here's a great article/story by Wayne Harris

https://www.termpro.com/articles/powersys.html




Posted By: punkbastard
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 3:09 AM
Just thought I would post a little comment about this as the thought of running that kind of system with no fuses or circuit breakers boggles my mind and yet I can see how he feels protected with the set-up he has.  There is a certain SPL vehicle I have seen first hand that set the world record.  Now, I dont know all the circumstances surrounding the event but it was loaded up on to a trailer to be taken to a comp., something went wrong, vehicle came off the trailer and caught on fire.  This vehicle was not designed to be driven on the road and therefore possibly it was not deemed necessary to protect the wire.  However, sh** happened, and much was lost and it needs to be rebuilt.  It costed god knows how much time and money for this shop, thankfully no lives though.  Nobody, including this guy, has any idea what the future holds or what kind of accidents and hardhips we might face.  All we can do is take every possible precaution to prepare and protect ourselves for it.  I just hope that nothing happens to this guy or anybody else. 




Posted By: dragon51
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 4:05 AM

How friggin stupid, you should not be allowed to enter the lanes with out the proper fuese protection at any event! That endangers's everone who is watching the event, should it go up in smoke, why dose it take someone getting hurt befor they make those types of changes.

And that kid call's says he's a pro installer (ummm bullshs) That is why I did my own work





Posted By: speedwayaudio1
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 5:45 AM
My buddy drives a rollback wrecker, he picks up wrecks for the ins. companies. I ride with him some times, and we pick up lot's of burned out cars. A lot of them burned from not running fuses or breakers. It's a shame to see all that carnage. Ngsm13 Welcome to the forum always glade to see new people here.

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Big Dave




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 8:53 AM

ngsm13 wrote:

Also, learn to spell. *EDITED*.

Read the forum rules. There's a reason why words are mistakenly spelled wrong because you can not use them on this forum. Please keep crude remarks off the12volt.



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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 10:26 AM

this is why i always preach only fusing the primary high enough for the total system requirements.... why have a 250-300 amp ANL at the battery if your total system current draw is only 110 amps??

we've had the "what does the primary fuse protect?" debate here before.... and this is a good example of why it pays to be possibly over-cautious when fusing systems..... me personally, i'd rather replace a blown primary fuse once or twice a year than risk burning my vehicle down......



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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979




Posted By: Melted Fabric
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 11:43 AM

Well, I am working on becoming a guru of car audio, specializing in interior and fiberglassing at the moment.

I am glad I check our fellow Car Audio section today, instead of just lounging over in Fiberglass and Interiors.

I will definately be fuse crazy from now on.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"



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I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

When you do not know what you are doing and what you are doing is the best -- that is inspiration.




Posted By: electrostatic
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 11:47 AM
kgerry wrote:

this is why i always preach only fusing the primary high enough for the total system requirements.... why have a 250-300 amp ANL at the battery if your total system current draw is only 110 amps??

we've had the "what does the primary fuse protect?" debate here before.... and this is a good example of why it pays to be possibly over-cautious when fusing systems..... me personally, i'd rather replace a blown primary fuse once or twice a year than risk burning my vehicle down......




agree

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Prove your connections, use a meter!
I promise, I'll behave!




Posted By: dstang24
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:22 PM

punkbastard wrote:

Just thought I would post a little comment about this as the thought of running that kind of system with no fuses or circuit breakers boggles my mind and yet I can see how he feels protected with the set-up he has.  There is a certain SPL vehicle I have seen first hand that set the world record.  Now, I dont know all the circumstances surrounding the event but it was loaded up on to a trailer to be taken to a comp., something went wrong, vehicle came off the trailer and caught on fire.  This vehicle was not designed to be driven on the road and therefore possibly it was not deemed necessary to protect the wire.  However, sh** happened, and much was lost and it needs to be rebuilt.  It costed god knows how much time and money for this shop, thankfully no lives though.  Nobody, including this guy, has any idea what the future holds or what kind of accidents and hardhips we might face.  All we can do is take every possible precaution to prepare and protect ourselves for it.  I just hope that nothing happens to this guy or anybody else. 

The series of batteries was what started the fire... They used a different trailer than they normally did and apparently the static from this trailer was the initial culpret.  There is good reason that this particular vehicle has a $1M insurance policy on it :-).



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Team Edge Audio




Posted By: punkbastard
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 12:39 PM
dstang24 wrote:

The series of batteries was what started the fire... They used a different trailer than they normally did and apparently the static from this trailer was the initial culpret.  There is good reason that this particular vehicle has a $1M insurance policy on it :-).


I was wondering if you would provide your input here buddy.  I new that you would know the real reason it did burn instead of me just guessing.  I would still have to assume though that if the wires were fused properly than it would not have caught fire.  No knocking them, as has been said many times in this post it is common practice in SPL vehicles to not fuse.  Just used this one as an example of  "when disaster strikes"!





Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 6:25 PM
29 years, over 42,000 cars done. You NEVER run power leads without a fuse, PERIOD. And to our new member from the other forum, I still learn things everyday on this forum and one of the most knowledgable guys is Rob at Forbidden so mind your manners. I read the thread on your forum and seems like insulting people happens much more then exchanging ideas. This place is a tool just like any other one in your box, it saves you time and money. Use it wisely.

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There is no such thing as free installation!




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 10:30 PM
forbidden wrote:

Yah, my bad and I apologize to him as well. Like I said, I am a championship smart *** and tell it like it is sometimes. I earned and can take the ban, no big deal.


I'll vouche for Rob on this............ Yor number 1 in my books Rob posted_image



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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 27, 2006 at 10:59 PM
It's a crap forum anyway, with people that don't know you fuse power cables! Number one, single most basic rule of ANY power line... over-current protection is PARAMOUNT! This guy probably replaces blown fuses in his house with pennies, and believes he is still safe, because the wires are run in conduit! (Some of us older members still remember the "screw-in" types of house fuses...)

All I can say (and I do this without reservation) is the guy is an idiot. Let him burn his car to the ground if he wants, but he'll NEVER touch mine... and I don't go to sound-offs of any sort, so that portion of "public safety" is a moot point for me... Yes, he makes the industry look (a little) bad, but it is then up to the real installers, the PROPER installers, of the world to be even MORE responsible to carry the load of dumb-asses like this. Call it teamwork. There are weak members on every team, but the better members of the team make certain the team performs as it should.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: ngsm13
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 12:14 AM
dragon51 wrote:

How friggin stupid, you should not be allowed to enter the lanes with out the proper fuese protection at any event! That endangers's everone who is watching the event, should it go up in smoke, why dose it take someone getting hurt befor they make those types of changes.

And that kid call's says he's a pro installer (ummm bullshs) That is why I did my own work




Feel free to stop by Cincinnati, OH anytime. Head to head +12v challenge?

I take the industry standard precautions on all customers vehicles. My personal, project vehicle, is an exception.

tcss] wrote:

29 years, over 42,000 cars done. You NEVER run power leads without a fuse, PERIOD. And to our new member from the other forum, I still learn things everyday on this forum and one of the most knowledgable guys is Rob at Forbidden so mind your manners. I read the thread on your forum and seems like insulting people happens much more then exchanging ideas. This place is a tool just like any other one in your box, it saves you time and money. Use it wisely.


It's the largest and most frequented caraudio forum, simple because of it's name. It is populated with quite a few immature people. Oh well, moderating it is a task.

haemphyst wrote:

It's a crap forum anyway, with people that don't know you fuse power cables! Number one, single most basic rule of ANY power line... over-current protection is PARAMOUNT! This guy probably replaces blown fuses in his house with pennies, and believes he is still safe, because the wires are run in conduit! (Some of us older members still remember the "screw-in" types of house fuses...)

All I can say (and I do this without reservation) is the guy is an idiot. Let him burn his car to the ground if he wants, but he'll NEVER touch mine... and I don't go to sound-offs of any sort, so that portion of "public safety" is a moot point for me... Yes, he makes the industry look (a little) bad, but it is then up to the real installers, the PROPER installers, of the world to be even MORE responsible to carry the load of dumb-asses like this. Call it teamwork. There are weak members on every team, but the better members of the team make certain the team performs as it should.


I don't want to touch any vehicle that belongs to an Elitist p***k anyway. Get over yourself. If you don't like my precautions, cool... you said so. Leave it at that. It's my personal project vehicle, drop it.

posted_image

nG

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I use fuses sparingly.




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 1:28 AM
Lol my old house has the old school screw type fuses...There is this one fuse for the bathroom that would blow everytime you used a hairdryer with both lights on...Those fuses are major pains in the rear.




Posted By: speedwayaudio1
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 4:43 AM
wow this is a hot thread. pun intended.

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Big Dave




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 8:29 AM
ngsm13 wrote:

I don't want to touch any vehicle that belongs to an Elitist p***k anyway. Get over yourself. If you don't like my precautions, cool... you said so. Leave it at that. It's my personal project vehicle, drop it.

I never knew I was an elitist... cool. Dude, I drive a Civic... How's that elitist? Was also unaware I had something in myself to get over. (Ain't I the humblest guy here, here at the12volt? posted_image) All I said was your choice to bypass protection standards was a bad choice.

I have had many "personal project vehicles" in my day, yet I still over-current protected the power leads. It just makes sense. It is your personal project vehicle, and I don't like your LACK of precautions, I just hope you're in good with your insurance company, and I hope you don't live in California, where, when your car burns to the ground, (and all the other people who's cars burn to the ground due to improper or completely missing over-current protection) my insurance rates go up. My rates are high enough already, thank you... Consider it dropped.

aznboi3644 wrote:

Lol my old house has the old school screw type fuses...There is this one fuse for the bathroom that would blow everytime you used a hairdryer with both lights on...Those fuses are major pains in the rear.

Ya know, you can put a penny under those when they blow, and bypass the safety of them! Sure, it's a guaranteed way to burn your car (I mean, house) to the ground, but it'll never blow again! BWAHAHAHAHA


(THAT, BY THE WAY, WAS A JOKE!!!!! DO NOT DO IT!!!!!)

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: phrozt
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 10:10 AM
I wouldn't discount CA.com based off this one incident.. there's a lot of really good info on there.

I do, however, disagree w/how ng dealt w/the situation.. and voiced my opinion.. and I'll prolly be banned on CA for doing it.

Oh well. Either way, I'd advise to take this incident w/a grain of salt and realize there *is* actually a lot of good info and discussion on the board.




Posted By: phrozt
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 10:27 AM
well, nevermind that.. looks like I'll be on this forum now, because I'm being banned on that one for saying it was wrong for him to be banned for discussion.

Basically, if you don't agree w/everything a mod there says, you're wrong, and you're banned.




Posted By: phrozt
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 10:29 AM
(since you cannot edit posts here):

You have been banned for the following reason:
Being unrulely and I am tired of dealing with worthless people.

Date the ban will be lifted: 07-03-2006


Being unruly = saying that it's wrong to ban someone for discussion of an install on a wiring board.




Posted By: wirewise
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 10:51 AM
I just read both threads and I'm sure we can all agree that not fusing is a very unsafe practice. To think that any conduit used will provide the same level of protection as fusing is naive and dangerous. To drive a vehicle with this setup is beyond me and the defense of not living in a "what if world" is also naive. But regardless of what we think is safe, correct, smart, proper, etc., he will continue to do what he wants with his vehicle. He may not admit to it here, but I'm sure he is now more aware of the potential danger than ever before.

Personally I hope he is around years from now and that nothing bad ever happens as a result of the unsafe installation in his vehicle, but to defend it for any reason is foolish. To ignore the potential risks is only putting himself and anyone near this vehicle in danger. Just imagine the one time any one of those 0 gauge wires decides to become a light bulb, especially while he's filling up at a gas station. His insurance company will not cover the vehicle or the damage caused to any other property. Fire extinguishers will not put out the fire until the wire has completely burned through or the batteries have completely discharged (or disconnected if possible while burning) and by that time the vehicle will be completely in flames. Is the difference in sound pressure worth the loss of life or even a lifetime of misery, let alone losing what he has in the vehicle? Well maybe what he has in the vehicle if only to teach him a lesson he so adamantly defends, because after all... it's his vehicle :|

btw ngsm13, our opinions and common sense have nothing to do with being "elitists". If you are the professional you claim to be, you would agree and acknowledge that your vehicle is unsafe and that no one under any circumstances should do as you did regardless of what conduit you use, let alone refrain from name calling when your defense doesn't hold water.

On another note, the first part of learning is admitting you don't know it all and I can't think of anyone on this forum that does know it all.

phrozt, you will be able to edit your posts when you become a standard member. btw, welcome to the12volt.com :)

~wirewise~




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 10:58 AM

phrozt wrote:

(since you cannot edit posts here):

You have been banned for the following reason:
Being unrulely and I am tired of dealing with worthless people.

Date the ban will be lifted: 07-03-2006

Being unruly = saying that it's wrong to ban someone for discussion of an install on a wiring board.

Welcome to the 12volt.com phrozt, hope your experiences here are better than that of CA.com



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 11:00 AM

wirewise wrote:

I just read both threads and I'm sure we can all agree that not fusing is a very unsafe practice. To think that any conduit used will provide the same level of protection as fusing is naive and dangerous. To drive a vehicle with this setup is beyond me and the defense of not living in a "what if world" is also naive. But regardless of what we think is safe, correct, smart, proper, etc., he will continue to do what he wants with his vehicle. He may not admit to it here, but I'm sure he is now more aware of the potential danger than ever before.

Personally I hope he is around years from now and that nothing bad ever happens as a result of the unsafe installation in his vehicle, but to defend it for any reason is foolish. To ignore the potential risks is only putting himself and anyone near this vehicle in danger. Just imagine the one time any one of those 0 gauge wires decides to become a light bulb, especially while he's filling up at a gas station. His insurance company will not cover the vehicle or the damage caused to any other property. Fire extinguishers will not put out the fire until the wire has completely burned through or the batteries have completely discharged (or disconnected if possible while burning) and by that time the vehicle will be completely in flames. Is the difference in sound pressure worth the loss of life or even a lifetime of misery, let alone losing what he has in the vehicle? Well maybe what he has in the vehicle if only to teach him a lesson he so adamantly defends, because after all... it's his vehicle :|

btw ngsm13, our opinions and common sense have nothing to do with being "elitists". If you are the professional you claim to be, you would agree and acknowledge that your vehicle is unsafe and that no one under any circumstances should do as you did regardless of what conduit you use, let alone refrain from name calling when your defense doesn't hold water.

On another note, the first part of learning is admitting you don't know it all and I can't think of anyone on this forum that does know it all.

phrozt, you will be able to edit your posts when you become a standard member. btw, welcome to the12volt.com :)

~wirewise~

Very well put wirewise.... you are wire wise



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: phrozt
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 11:41 AM
Velocity Motors wrote:

phrozt wrote:

(since you cannot edit posts here):

You have been banned for the following reason:
Being unrulely and I am tired of dealing with worthless people.

Date the ban will be lifted: 07-03-2006

Being unruly = saying that it's wrong to ban someone for discussion of an install on a wiring board.

Welcome to the 12volt.com phrozt, hope your experiences here are better than that of CA.com


It's really a shame.. because I enjoy the fact that there are specific forums for every part of car audio, and it moves at a nice pace... but what are you supposed to do when the moderators pretty much PREVENT discussion?





Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 12:11 PM
Great post wirewise. Where have you been? I've been on this sight for about 2 years and don't remember reading any of your posts.

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There is no such thing as free installation!




Posted By: wirewise
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 12:16 PM
Thanks. I linger in the background most of the time, but every once in a while I come up for air ;p

~wirewise~




Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 12:23 PM
Or maybe to put out fires! lol

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There is no such thing as free installation!




Posted By: russ lund
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 12:43 PM
Being an installer for over 22 years and a firefighter for over 18 years, I feel I'm qualified to chirp in. Never run any wire in a car w/o proper fusing near the power source. I've had to extinguish 2 auto fires because some person decided they didn't want to spend 12-18 dollars for a fuse and holder. Luckily no injuries although both vehicles were occupied at the time of the blaze. Even running a switched power wire for the remote turn on can cause major damage without proper fusing. It doesn't do much for your ego when a firefighter does the investigation and determines that someones cheap stupidity made us hit the road in an emergency. And you losing your car to a fire. Russ.

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BigDog




Posted By: xtremej
Date Posted: June 28, 2006 at 1:11 PM

I have read all the  posts and I can't resist throwing my 2 cents in, 1st wirewise you hit it dead on. 2nd it is absolutley amazing how many "professional installers" don't know crap and preach poor advice. 3rd its insane how many people actually believe what these guys say. 



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Posted By: mobilevt
Date Posted: July 04, 2006 at 4:45 AM

Thought I'd chip in that you'd might find interesting...

I was working for LA County Fire under contract a few years for a while to do vehicle conversions to F250 Squads, Utility, and other related vehicles.  Some of them include an odd assortment of vehicles that deviate from the regular Ford trucks.  My job was to install the warning lights & sirens as well as the occasional tow winches, 12v scene lighting, etc.  Anyway,...

One day, an unnamed official came to me with an assignment to install a Dozer tender which is basically a equipment support repair truck that goes wherever those hugh Fire Dozers goes.  He said to run the power direct to the battery because it worked in the older truck and it was specifically requested by the crew.  I told him respectfully that it was a very unsafe thing to do.  After he insisted and left, I started to line up another contract job and was ready to pack my tools because I was sure he would let me go for refusing his orders.  Two days later, he came to me to take a look at this truck that caught fire in the engine compartment.  Lo and behold, there was a perfect example I wanted from the previous installer... there was no breaker and I had this official take a look at it and after explaining precisely what happened to the cause of the fire, he reversed himself subtly.  It turned out to be a loose grommet that chafed the wire thru the firewall. 

Sometimes it just had to be in their face for them to get the idea isn't it?



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Emergency Vehicle Technician
Got Freedom? Thank a vet!




Posted By: moptop
Date Posted: July 04, 2006 at 11:28 PM

LMAO, I'm only 20 (another 16 days and I'll be 21......and than the rest of my brain cells with die)and still learning about systems. But ****ing common sense tells you to use in line fuses.

Should we make bets on when his car burns to the ground, lol!?!

Anyways, I looked the pic he posted of his car. I only seen one amp in that thing, even if he had more, theres no reason to run four 0G wires! If hes a pro at this stuff, why is his system all boot legged? I used a hot glue gun and a big piece of carpet, in my trunk, and it looks like it came from the factory that way.






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