Printer Friendly Forum Posts - DBALL2 Canbus Issue

Hello and good day forum friends. My car has various electrical issues with the central electronics control module. They are blaming one issue on the dball2 and i have to pay out of pocket.

The dealer and tech are putting blame on the dball2 for causing the backup camera to be inoperative. They are stating that the dball2 possibly sent a bad voltage signal into the vehicle's canbus system. They claim once they uninstalled the dball2 the camera functions normally and the issue i reported is no longer present.

My thought was that the dball2 only receives input signals from the canbus system on the vehicle. Am i mistaken? Does the dball2 actually output through the canbus wires also?

I just find it hard to believe and i think they are trying to blame a perfectly functioning system just for me to pay out of pocket.

I called directed but they will only provide support to an authorized dealer and not to the end user. Any insight and expertise from the fellow members of this forum is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Yes the DB-ALL does send info to the vehicle CAN data system, e.g. lock/unlock also depends on the vehicle.
Make, model and year would help.
I would also add that I've never had a DB-ALL cause problems, we're UK based and we do about 7 installs a week, mainly BMW, Audi VW, late models and with very few problems.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

My vehicle is a 2013 VW Jetta GLi with manual trans. It has the J519 with 3 BCM modules.

Ah, I've just seen your previous posts, tan/green, hi. Tan/brown lo.
Steering column, driver's door loom or under BCM.
By the way the vehicle giving the very few problems, yes...VW.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Usually get loads of warning lights, not ABS or airbag and a 10 mile drive usually cures them.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

cw6mt mkvigli wrote:

<snipped>
The dealer and tech are putting blame on the dball2 <snipped> possibly sent a bad voltage signal into the vehicle's canbus system. They claim once they uninstalled the dball2 the camera functions normally and the issue i reported is no longer present.

It is possible I am the Queen of England. posted_image

Or maybe I am not. Anyways burden of proof is on the dealer. This is where an authorized dealer needs to be involved to tell you whether the DBALL could have had a bad connection or is just faulty. A loose CAN wire may cause a data signal drop out but would not cause a voltage spike. If a can bus message is lost it or does not finish a complete train of thought the message is simply ignored. Occasionally if the same message is repeated and ignored too many times then the pcm/bcm can send out a message to all nodes to run diagnostics which may result in dash lights going crazy.

If you did this yourself you may be out of luck on the diagnostics charges.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

As a matter of interest how did you connect your DB-ALL2 wires to the vehicle CAN wires?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

The wires were connected in the same manner as decribed in the install guide for my specific firmware. Thank you all for the insight. Your time and efforts are much appreciated.

I meant soldered T-taps etc.?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

All my connections are soldered with heat shrink tubing.

Yes that's how I do it, incidentally I was told yesterday NEVER to solder them!
I still don't see how the DB-ALL2 could affect the car. I'm with racerjames here.
In the UK VAG cars are notorious for CPU problems, you were unlucky, get the dealer to put their findings in writing and tell them you'll be informing DEI. bet they back down.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

...get the dealer to put their findings in writing and tell them you'll be informing DEI. bet they back down.

That is actually a brilliant idea! posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Thank you so much for all the advice. I was thinking, since i don't have an aftermarket alarm system would the dball2 still be sending unlock, lock, trunk pop signals to my vehicle's canbus? If it's only configured for RSR with the OEM remote wouldn't the only circuits receiving signals from the dball2 be the ignition circuits? I would think it would only need inputs to the can hi and can lo ports to sense tach, hood position, etc? Please correct any discrepancies in my understanding.

I guess i'm one of the unlucky one. The issue with the car is actually regarding the j519 CECM. The backup camera would only work when the headlights switch is in the "On" position, when the headlight switch is in the "On" position one of the driver side reverse light stays on as if it thinks it's a rear fog light, the DRL LED's no longer function and the turn lamps in the headlight assemblies stay on continuously if they fog light switch is in the off position, regardless if the steering wheel is straight or turned.

The Dball and everything on the can bus communicates in a two-way conversation. It's a party line of sorts and every thing on the line hears and monitors the line regardless of if what's being said at any given moment is address to them.

Unfortunately, if the dealer states the vehicle becomes fixed and functions normally just by removing a non-certified aftermarket device from the communication bus then there's not much you can argue. They (the dealer) can prove the fix and it's not their place to defend, troubleshoot, or try to make non-factory authorized devices work.

DEI won't take responsibility because they don't want the liability or bills past, present, or future. Hence why they throw it back on the installer who's job it is to ensure an install doesn't damage the vehicle and that the vehicle is working and functioning normally after the install.

Fortunately, the repair is easy and the vehicle has not had permanent damage to it's electronic systems.

The funny thing is, removing the dball2 only fixes the backup camera issue while all the other issues are still present.

The remote start system was even disconnected before taking the car in for service. I unplugged the harnesses which would input into the dball2 (the car is a manual and i didn't want the service guy remote starting the car while it's in gear) so how did removing the physical wire terminations fix only the backup cam issue?

They are charging me $510 for diagnosing and fixing only the camera issue. They are still trying to figure out whats wrong with the rest of the J519.

Things I can't answer because I'm not the installer, the DEI hardware maker/software programmer, the dealer service tech, or any of the vehicle design engineers.

All I can say is no one is going to willingly take fault for expensive computer systems being messed up. Obviously, you don't want the bill, DEI doesn't want the bill for an unauthorized/untrained install, and the dealer/factory doesn't want to foot the bill for some aftermarket device that they never tested for compatibility.

When you tinker with things doodie can happen. Usually installs of this sort go fine but not always, your just one of these not always cases. As the installer without factory/DEI backing your work is self-insured, if something should happen - the car burn the ground - then it's on you unless you can prove otherwise.

I should add that tapping into the CAN or any data bus is not for the uninitiated. There are rules on how and where things attach to the bus. The rules are in place to prevent data collision and cross-talk. A properly functioning device, well installed, tapped into the wrong part of the can bus backbone can cause system communications to fail even if the device is known/tested to work in the system IF properly connected to the data bus.

Mods, could this thread go to the Hot Topics section?
I particularly liked catback's last two posts.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

As for installation the canbus hi and lo were all tapped as per the location specified in the dball2 installation guide. I just don't see how it could be proven that the dball2 specifically targeted the backup camera signal alone while all other canbus circuits remained fully operable, with the exception of the faulty DRL module which they also blammed on the dball2. All said and done i got the car back minus $1500.

They installed a new CECM (J519) and programmed the module's long coding and everything was back to normal. All my years on the job of dealing with PLC modules, ladder logic, contactors, SSR's, etc i have never heard of a low voltage data line that uses binary coding protocol having power surges and wiping out only 2 specific components on the entire network.

In the end it is an aftermarket product so I guess there is no arguing that aspect. Thank you everyone who took the time to chime and for sharing your knowledge on this matter.

I have been away for the holiday, but was just re-reading this thread. Glad your car is working again but I did see this important bit of info. May be worth noting moving forward especially if this thread gets pinned. Pertinent information is highlighted below.

cw6mt mkvigli wrote:

The remote start system was even disconnected before taking the car in for service. I unplugged the harnesses which would input into the dball2 (the car is a manual and i didn't want the service guy remote starting the car while it's in gear) so how did removing the physical wire terminations fix only the backup cam issue?

They are charging me $510 for diagnosing and fixing only the camera issue. They are still trying to figure out whats wrong with the rest of the J519.

the car is a manual

The install guide does not list manual transmission coverage for the DBALL in RSR mode.

Correct me if I am wrong in deducing that you circumvented the safety devices on your vehicle and in a manual transmission safe remote start system. This may be the source of your issues. At least may have contributed. We don't know what codes could be different on a manual vs automatic PCM/BCM. Definitely shines a different light on the matter.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*