keypad starter kill
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=102604
Printed Date: May 01, 2024 at 10:11 PM
Topic: keypad starter kill
Posted By: audioman2007
Subject: keypad starter kill
Date Posted: February 27, 2008 at 3:17 PM
How reliable are they? One of those came with my alarm, but I never installed it. I got the keypad, mounting hardware, relay, and relay harness. Is it even worth installing?
Replies:
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: February 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM
not worth it, if you have the alarm, dont bother. i find those things soo bulky and it just acts like a starter defeat. simply using a relay to break the continuity on the start wire.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: February 28, 2008 at 5:50 PM
So I would be better off just using a relay to break continuity? Um, on my alarm, the ground when armed wire says in the manual that it is used for starter defeat and anti-grind protection. How is it possible to do both? I mean if you think about it, it would only do the starter defeat. When you RS the vehicle, in order to get in tit, you would need to disarm the alarm. By disarming it, the ground when armed wire nolonger is grounded, thus it wont prevent grinding. Someone on here said that with the vehicle RS'd, that when you turn the key then, there is no way to grind the starter if the ground when armed wire is connected. But that makes no sense unless you are sitting in the car with the system armed and do it then. But then I was thinking, do I even need a starter defeat? I mean without the key, the car cant be driven anyways, correct?
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: February 28, 2008 at 8:56 PM
it is possible. the ground when armed acts as the starter defeat. when you disarm, it acts as a Ground when running, thus still energizing the relay to break th eocntinuity on the start wire. you dont need the starter defeat unless you dont want it. i mean it takes 5 min or less to whip that relay in place and its just nice to have incase some1 hotwired the car, it wouldnt start anywayss.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: February 29, 2008 at 3:26 AM
Well I was ganna install a LED and use that wire as my ground that way the LED only works when the car is armed. Could I go and test that wire by running the LED ground off it, then simply RS the car, and if after I remote start the car and disarm the alarm, if that LED is still on, then I know that wire is still grounded?
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: February 29, 2008 at 6:12 PM
i wouldnt do that. the output for LED are very low current. not enough to trigger a relay.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: February 29, 2008 at 8:18 PM
No. What I meant was to simply wire in a LED to test the wire. I would run the LED power to the battery. Then run its ground to that wire. I had done this before and have it posted in another topic. When I did this and armed the vehicle, the LED lit up. Then when I disarmed, the LED went off. I could simply wire that LED back up just to see if that wire is grounded when the car is remote started and disarmed. If its lit, then I know that wire will prevent grinding the starter.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: February 29, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Stolen from another member on here (whom I haven't seen for a while) When in doubt, try it out! I wouldn't bother with the LED, just hook the starter kill relay up. Start by verifying the starter kill works. If it does, remote start the car, disarm it, and try to crank it. The worst that can happen is your starter will engage and grind a bit, which won't hurt anything (although it won't sound good). I think you will be pleasently surprised with the results, and you will then be able to believe tedmond about his correct description of how the (-) when armed is also a (-) while running output! ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: March 01, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Its not that I dont believe tedmond, cuz I do. BUT i want to be careful not to mess anything up either. I do understand how that wire can be used for 2 things. Like that wire will be grounded when the vehicle is armed to prevent someone from hot wiring it. When the car is remote started, the remote start sends a messege to that wire which in turns grounds it. That then prevents the starter from being grinded. Another thing...... when I install this relay, I would need to cut the starter wire. I would cut the starter wire between the RS unit and the starter motor correct? This way I can still RS the car.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 01, 2008 at 11:49 AM
1)when I install this relay, I would need to cut the starter wire. I would cut the starter wire between the RS unit and the starter motor correct? This way I can still RS the car. you wire cut the starter wire in order to have a properly functioning starter kill. 85 - ignition
86 - anti grind/starter kill output from unit
87a - starter wire, key side
30 - starter wire motor side
from the unit, attach the starter OUTPUT towards the motor, so basically after the relay.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: March 01, 2008 at 12:19 PM
So I would wire it up exactly how you have it, and run the starter wire from the RS to pin 30 or atleast to the wire running off pin 30?
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 01, 2008 at 8:46 PM
correct.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: March 02, 2008 at 11:10 AM
But isnt it true that a vehicle that has passlock 2 cant be hot wired anyways? The key would need to be inserted reguardless thus you wouldnt need the starter kill relay installed correct? Also, if that relay was to blow over time, you wouldnt be able to start the vehicle. I just want to know if its really worth it to install this starter kill relay on my car that has passlock 2.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 02, 2008 at 8:47 PM
well passlock is an antitheft system, but having one extralayer of protection is gold. the car must be REALLLY old to blow a relay. if you wire it properly and place a diode on it to control the spike the relay should last u forever. the method you are wiring it, even if the relay was defective, it would still allow the car to start. the only way it will never start is if you keep your alarm armed.
Posted By: audioman2007
Date Posted: March 03, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Do I need a diode on all relays that I installed?
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 03, 2008 at 2:44 PM
well if you do it just allows long life of the relay and eliminates any chance for backfeed on the load.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 03, 2008 at 3:13 PM
The diode won't add life or protect the load. The diode is to protect the drive circuit from a reverse voltage spike caused by the breakdown of the magnetic field around the coil. In the case of a starter kill, the ignition circuit is the drive circuit, so it is advisable to use a diode to protect the ignition circuit from a short to ground. They can not put the diode inside the alarm or else the ignition feed could backfeed through the diode and power things when things aren't supposed to be powered (like a blown fuse situation). On "most" relays the (-) drive circuit is provided by the alarm and the (+) voltage is provided by a constant battery source. If this is the case the diodes on the circuit board of the alarm/remote start will provide the proection needed. ------------- Kevin Pierson
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